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Let's Chat: Chosen Axes

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Posted (edited)
On 7/5/2019 at 9:22 AM, KoganStyle said:

No Regal vision for me, those ploy slots are so contested! 

Happy times !

When you scored Spike, would you say that in both cases it was in the natural course of your game ? Or did that lead you to some kind of sub-optimal strategies or moves (here I mean for instance attacking twice the same model even if you could have killed it with a single blow / or using Great Strenght on Fjul while not needing it for something else / things like that...) ? 

Edited by WathLab

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Posted (edited)

Hi everyone !

I was thinking about it recently... Because of their reputation for being a kind of hard-mode faction, Chosen Axes can deter many newcomers from playing them. Which is a bit sad, as our favourite warband can be really fun and very rewarding to play...

 

Because I am a sort of all-time / die-hard Chosen Axes player, I wanted to write this short guide for new players.

So here it is : some very simple advice for this nice finesse warband !

Chosen Axes for Beginners !

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerUnderworlds/comments/c8qn9u/last_post_before_summer_chosen_axes_for_beginners/

 

Have a nice summer !

(Post edited after July 2019 BAR LIST!)

Edited by WathLab
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Posted (edited)

Thanks ! Of course you can ! I just hope the answer won't be too disappointing, because...

Because the way I play Mad Maegrim is strongly linked to (the very personal) way I play Chosen Axes*... In fact, when I play them, I value reliability** and flexibility more than anything else. 

Here my reasoning is quite simple :

  • Because most of the current warbands are faster than them, most of the time, when I play my Aggro / Flex / Invasive Chosen Axes, (even if I do my best) I don't have complete control on the path of the game and can't really decide who lives or dies...
  • And, at the same time, because all of the Chosen Axes fighters are at least solid and decent (don't lie to ourselves, they're all very good (!)...), I've learned that the best thing I could do was to faithfully rely on the remaining ones... And maybe because I'm also a go player***, I tend to pay a bit more attention to the Where ? than to the Who ?...

... I don't have perfect builds or secret techs for anyone, and I want all my ploys and upgrades to work well with all my dwarves... (Imo giving specific build & use works better with strong AND fast warbands, where you can control more easily the path of the game...)

So there's no specific build**** for Mad Maegrim in my current deck (and no specific build for anyone either), but many nice (VERY common knowledge) loadouts, using VERY simple things like Great Strenght, Duellist Speed, Concealed Weapon, Activated Runes or Potion of Rage...

I've found this to be the best for my own playstyle... And by far...

 

* I explained this recently : https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerUnderworlds/comments/by7g3c/how_do_you_play_your_chosen_axes_now/

**So that's why I like MM so much...

*** I also explained this recently : https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerUnderworlds/comments/c3th1o/go_chosen_axes_5_useful_concepts_i_learned_from/

**** But yes, there are specific uses : killing low wounds fighters, killing Stormcasts, Orruks or Fiends with Concealed Weapon, being the CA unexpected threat, being the (last) one scoring Unstoppable Advance and Conquest because nobody cares about him, taking 2 wounds from uninspired Mollog when needed and sometimes, being #1 bait when Vol is away...

 

 

Edited by WathLab
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On 7/3/2019 at 9:47 AM, KoganStyle said:

Running this a few times and I found that it is unlikely to gain the upgrades in the order you need (Spirit bond then War Song) and if you need to ditch your opening hand you could lose one or the other and neuter the effectiveness of the combo. Particularly if Spirit bond is discarded as War Song is essentially a junk card.

Due to the today New BAR LIST (with Spiritbond being restricted), our (chimeric) dream of Spririt of War Combo seems definitively dead now...

Apart from that, this new list seems quite good news for our hairy stunties... Since everyone is getting down, I guess we'll be able to make beautiful uppercuts again very soon !

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Posted (edited)

To Chosen Axes players all around the Mirrored City : keep faith in Grimnir boys when you flee to the woods !


Until last week-end, I hadn't been playing Chosen Axes for the past month... but now my ongoing (casual) record has grown to 11 14 victories in a row.
Power Unbound cards help for sure... Having now 3 ways of inspiring early is a huge shift, mainly as it gives you much more time to do very important things like hitting foes & scoring glory...

Edited by WathLab

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Recently, as some of you may remember, I wrote a very simple guide for Chosen Axe beginners.

Of course, one important subject was setting up and board placement. My main advice was the following : « be very careful about distances and group your dwarves as much as you can in order to set up multiple inspirations... It's very helpful if even with only two objectives on your side, you can reach at least 2 objectives with each dwarf... The Mirror Well, Kathophrane Reliquary and the Cursed Oubliette are nice boards to achieve this. »

So here are some illustrations of this very simple idea :

4 Examples of Board Placement to help you set up Multiples Inspirations!

I'm sure there are plenty of other good and even best options out there, but these 4 have prooven to be quite useful, and when you begin playing Chosen Axes, they will help you inspiring your fighters more easily.

Most of the time, a single move, or even better, a single push will allow any of your dwarves to reach an Objective token. In particular, this will help you :

  • adapt to your opponent's moves,

  • survive your dwarves' early deaths,

  • make a better use of Regal Vision if you use it.

Please note that most of these set-ups will also make Hidden Path use easier.

You'll notice I chose to show very aggressive setups. The reason why I do this is because (as I also said before), by now, with your Chosen Axes, the best way to go is to play either Aggro or Aggro / Flex playstyles. I play this way myself, but there's no doubt you can easily adapt them to a more carefull approach.

So in general, move forward at your own pace, inspire and once inspired, be as agressive as you think you can !

 

Guide boards 01.jpg

Guide boards 02.jpg

Guide boards 03.jpg

Guide boards 04.jpg

Edited by WathLab
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Beware ! 2.jpg

 

Hi everyone ! Let's see if we can go (a bit) further in our Chosen Axes for Beginners series ! So here's today subject :

Chosen Axes : Beware but Don't Panic ! Or the things you must be prepared to face while trying to inspire...

As some of you may remember, in the first post of this series (https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerUnderworlds/comments/c8qn9u/last_post_before_summer_chosen_axes_for_beginners/), aside from reliability, two ideas were considered to be of paramount importance : morale and inspiration, which are closely linked together... When you play Chosen Axes, because inspiring your fighters is so important, it's very easy to feel upset and to lose all your morale when your opponent counters some of your Round 1 moves. Here, the key is to never be surprised or destabilized by anything, and to achieve this, you need to know exactly what can happen and when...

Note : When it comes to cards, this symbol (°) means « Still valid Universal Card from seasons 2 or 3 », the other ones being from Shadespire card pool...

 

ROUND 1 / While trying to inspire your dwarves, whatever you do (move, push) or feel (safe or not, because of threat ranges), always remember the following things can happen :

 

A/ Your opponent using PUSH PLOYS, such as :

DISTRACTION : to simply move your fighter from the objective at the very end of the last power phase. Simple but very powerful. Distraction is a common ploy that many Aggro and Control warbands use in their decks... So painful for Chosen Axes players ! That's the reason why taking at least 3 or 4 good push ploys in your deck is always a good idea. However, because it is a Season 1 card, with the recent rotation, unless you play Open or Relic mode, you won't see it anymore. However...

DISTRACTION-LIKE PLOYS ° : … However also note that many warbands have their own faction specific version of it : Steelheart's Champions, Sepulchral Guard, Spiteclaw's Swarm, Mollog's Mob, Ironsoul's Condemnors and of course Chosen Axes themselves do. Don't forget that Thundrik's Profiteers also have a similar way to move one of your fighters from your beloved objectives with Toxic Gases. So when you face these warbands in Championship mode, always be prepared for this kind of cruel moves.

CENTRE OF ATTENTION ° : to use one of your nearby dwarves to move another fighter who's already holding an objective. In this case, be also prepared for some very nasty scything attack - Mighty Swing or very Aggro Sepulchral Guard (i've seen some !) for instance.

MIRROR MOVE ° : to counter one of your previous push or move, pushing back one of your fighters who was already sitting on an objective.

SIDE STEP ° / SPECTRAL WINGS / HIDDEN PATH : to reach you fighters early, before they can inspire and get to 4-5 wounds. By the end of the game, you will lose some of your fighters anyway, so don't despair andn try to protect your most important fighters, for instance using Vol as a screen.

EARTHQUAKE : to move all your fighters from the objectives at the same time. Very few people play Earthquake now but again, who knows ?

 

B/ Your opponent using OTHER PLOYS, such as :

MISCHIEVOUS SPIRITS : to mess up with your plans if some of your dwarves are already on objectives. When you face Control warbands, always expect that kind of plays... Some Chosen Axes players use this ploy with a certain success, but if you want to play it yourself, always remember it also allows your opponent to move 2 objectives : so if you already have a fighter sitting on an objective, your will lose it.

NO TIME : to prevent you from using your own precious ploys in the last activation of the round. Also quite rare.

TRANSFIXING STARE ° : which can be a very nasty move Round 1 (see below). When you don't have any push-ploys in hand, Transfixing Stare on Fjul or Tefk can be particularly upsetting...

SHIFTING REFLEXION ° : in order to teleport your still weak Tefk behind his own line, shutting him down quickly before he has a chance to become a killing machine at the end of the round. Most of the time, even if he loses a fighter, this kind of trade will be very good for your opponent.

LETHAL WARD ° : to deal 1 damage to your holding objective fighter.

ENCROACHING SHADOWS ° : to deal 1 damage to your fighter holding that fifth objective you put on an edge hexe.

SHATTERING TERRAIN : to increase the price of moving one of your fighters on an objective, by dealing him 1 damage.

 

C/ Your opponent using SPELLS, such as :

ABASOTH'S UNMAKING ° : to remove one of the objectives your dwarves are sitting on. Note that the (brave & gambler) caster must be within a 4 hexe range, so unless you have push-ploys, if your inspiration fails you won't be able to reach him...

 

D/ Your opponent using ACTIONS, such as :

ATTACKS : in order to drive your fighters back from the objectives they're holding (with the new Beastgrave rules, this is not possible if you're on Guard...). Always expect ranged warbands like Samson's Farstriders, Stormsire Cursebreakers, Thundrik's Profiteers or even Godsworn and Wild Hunts to try to shoot at you when you're on an objective... In particular, fear ranged attacks with knockback (Enrik Ironhail's for instance), as a single push ploy like the Earth Shakes would'nt be enough to help you move back. Using (quite) late activations to move on objectives will limit the number of attacks they can make...

MOVES : in order to sit on the objectives with their own fighters before you can reach them yourself, making you lose time with early less efficient attacks... Some of the meanest warbands (I look at you, Spiteclaw's Swarm player with Transfixing Stare and Martyred in hand...) may do this from time to time... So be prepared.

 

E/ Your opponent using SPECIAL ABILITIES, such as :

STALAGSQUIG PLACEMENT : again, in order to make you lose time. Maybe you'll never see this, as many Mollog players just don't want to give you easy glory, but who knows... like I said before, you need to be prepared for anything.

 

F/ Your opponent using SET-UP TRICKS, such as :

LETHAL HEXES PLACEMENT : with the new Beastgrave rules, you must expect your opponent to do that kind of move, placing a lethal hex in the middle of your set-up formation, making access to the objectives harder. However, if your set up is good, for instance if you use one of the board placements if was suggesting recently, you'll see that it will be quite hard for him to ruin your plans, as you'll always have a way to reach any objective with most of your dwarves without moving through the lethal hexe, whatever its position.

 

A SHORT CONCLUSION :

Here, as always, my advice will be very simple : In general, use late Round 1 move actions to reach the nearest objectives tokens and save your own push ploys in order to counter your opponent's tricks. If he doesn't do anything to ruin your plans, you can use these ploys to inspire additional fighters in last power phase of the round, or/and save the remaining ones to help you in the coming fights.

But of course...

If you have Regal Vision in hand, things are a bit diffrent, and there are two main cases - whether or not you have easy surge objectives in your hand that reward you for fighting and that you want to score by the end of the Round :

  • If it's not the case, move early, then use Regal Vision to inspire Fjul or Tefk, and save your push ploys to make sure you can inspire one or two of your other fighters at the end of the first round,

  • If it's the case, and if you have a good opportunity & feel confident (with Oathsworn in hand for instance), you can try the follwing sequence : push ploy on an objective, then Regal Vision to inspire, then charge (or even better, Treasure Lust if your target stands next to an objective...).

 

Of course, all these are only simple guidelines that you'll need to adapt to your own playstyle, match-ups and opponents !

 

Have a nice week and enjoy your first steps in Beastgrave !

 

 

Edited by WathLab
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With the most recent releases, it seems that there are quite good new Hold-Objective friendly cards... like Restless Prize or Swift Capture for instance.

Has someone tried to do some Chosen Axes deckbuilding with them already ?

Edited by WathLab

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I'm working on converting my Chosen Axes warband, and I'm not going to lie, they are going to look very cool. So far I'll be using the new Gotrek plastic model with his epic base for Fjul, seriously this model is what prompted the idea to convert the entire warband. I found a great Mad Magrim in the form of the limited release Grombrindal in plastic form. Vol and Tefk I'm still trying to think about how to convert. My overall plan was to have a unit of regular slayers and not fyreslayers. So no helmets, no runes, nothing flashy, just a big beard, mohawk, blue jeans, and axes. 

Game-wise, the CA have some very very nice objectives and ploys with 1-2 really good upgrades. They seem really fun to play and there seems to be enough movement/push ploys around now to keep your opponent guessing. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 10:25 PM, Anthony225 said:

I'm working on converting my Chosen Axes warband, and I'm not going to lie, they are going to look very cool. So far I'll be using the new Gotrek plastic model with his epic base for Fjul, seriously this model is what prompted the idea to convert the entire warband. I found a great Mad Magrim in the form of the limited release Grombrindal in plastic form. Vol and Tefk I'm still trying to think about how to convert. My overall plan was to have a unit of regular slayers and not fyreslayers.

Such a nice idea. These two minis will be perfect for Fjul & Maegrim. For the last two, do you already have something in mind ? Of course one option would be to use classic GW metal slayers... like this one or this one... Or maybe one of the more recent Bloodbowl slayers...

Let us know how it works!

 

Edited by WathLab

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13 minutes ago, WathLab said:

Such a nice idea. These two minis will be perfect for Fjul & Maegrim. For the last two, do you already have something in mind ? Of course one option would be to use classic GW metal slayers... like this one or this one... Or maybe one of the more recent Bloodbowl slayers...

Let us know how it works!

 

I keep going back and forth wether I’ll use the Grombrindal model for Maegrim or Tefk. Currently I’m leaning toward Tefk and just giving the model Tefks twin axes. 
for Maegrim and Vol I’ve already started converting the actual chosen axes models by chopping their heads off and adding the bald slayer heads from the fyreslayer box set. Then adding the Mohawk. Shaved off their skirts and going to add green stuff pants. Also shaved off all the runes on the body. 

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Yeah I think you're right to use the already done minis for the two most important fighters of the warband (even if Tefk needs maybe a more static pose). Hope everything will be fine - as shaving dwarves can be a bit risky sometimes!

Edited by WathLab

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On 10/14/2019 at 8:58 AM, WathLab said:

Yeah I think you're right to use the already done minis for the two most important fighters of the warband (even if Tefk needs maybe a more static pose). Hope everything will be fine - as shaving dwarves can be a bit risky sometimes!

I’m pretty much done converting the warband. Tefk looks very epic in deed, so much so I had to put Fjul (Gotrek) on his bigger base on top of the pile of Skaven and wood. I figure it suits Fjul well as he’s the leader and he’s stronger and tougher than the rest of the band. Maegrim and Vol look really cool. Just standard looking slayers ready to chop up some enemies or die a good death in the process. 
On a side note, is there some sort of process to post pictures? Ive never done it, but I thought some might like to see the WIP shots before painting 

Edited by Anthony225

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11 hours ago, Anthony225 said:

On a side note, is there some sort of process to post pictures? Ive never done it, but I thought some might like to see the WIP shots before painting

That's very simple - you only have to use the "Drag files here to attach, or choose files..." button that's just below.

When you do, your image is uploaded and appears just after your text if you wrote some, or simply in the top part of the post if you wrote nothing.

That's great if we can see this alternative Chosen Axes WIP!

Edited by WathLab

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Need to do a few finishing touches, but they are finished for the most part. Hopefully the pics are decent enough to see the conversions. I intentionally put minimal green stuff on the legs for pants as I didn't want the legs to be to "thick" and look weird. I put the frilly ends of the pants by the feet so they will definitely look like pants when it's all painted up. I had to put Fjul (Gotrek) on his epic base because his scale is ever so slightly smaller than the rest of the chaps, but it looks good on the big base.  

Fjul Grimnir.jpg

Tefk front.jpg

Tefk side.jpg

Maegrim side.jpg

Maegrim back.jpg

Vol front.jpg

Vol back.jpg

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You did a great work here. Very promising. Will you add hair braids on Maegrim & Vol ? I know that Chosen Axes don't have any, however Slayers do, and maybe it could be nice...

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12 hours ago, WathLab said:

You did a great work here. Very promising. Will you add hair braids on Maegrim & Vol ? I know that Chosen Axes don't have any, however Slayers do, and maybe it could be nice...

Iike this? It does look a lot better I think. Maegrim in particular looks really cool.

slayer braids.jpg

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On 10/22/2019 at 12:51 AM, Anthony225 said:

Iike this?

Exactly! Now the minis look even more dynamic. Nice! Let us know about your painting work (hope you'll post the result in the Painted warbands section...)!

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The 10 Glory Series - Part 1.jpg

 

Hi everyone ! This week,  we adressed a not that simple (fully theoric) question :

Any ideas of the strongest possible builds with 10 glory & 10 upgrades ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerUnderworlds/comments/dl2rro/the_10_glory_series_part_1_fjul_the_molloghunter/

Have a nice week-end in Beastgrave !

 

Edited by WathLab

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Two Birds One Stone - Go Chosen Axes in Practice.jpg

 

Hi everyone ! This week,  we're back to the Game of Go :

5 Useful concepts I learned from Go – Part 2 : Why this early attack was probably a good idea...

 

In appearence, it seemed like it was a very simple move... however...

 

A few months ago, when I begun to write this Chosen Axes Series, one of my first posts was about the game of Go, which I think provides a lot of very useful concepts for strategy games in general, and for Warhammer Underworlds in general.

Recently, I had the chance to attend my first tournanement ever (where I live, there's no competitive scene at all... but thanks to the great Vassal of the Underworlds community, this experience was made possible for me. I have reached the quarterfinals now, as my Chosen Axes won 6 games out of 7, I'm curious to see where all this will end...), and in the first part of it, one game in particular strongly epitomized what I think about the benefits of the Go game approach.

Here, I won't describe the whole game, and will only stress out one important decision I had to make in the first turn, which led to a simple but powerful move.


 

INITIAL SET-UP (see image above)

It was a quite hard match-up, against a very nice opponent playing Thundrik's Profiteers...

My opponent had won the board roll and had chosen to go second, so I had 3 objectives on my side. One of his was near several of his fighters, and adjacent to Ironhail...

With the Mirror Well, my dwarves were as close as possible of the middle of the board, but still unable to reach any of his fighters with their uninspired move of 2...

And then came my opening hand...


 

OPENING HAND

Power cards : Treasure Lust / Restless Prize / Inspired Attack / Faneway Crystal / Survival Instincts

Objective cards : Ferocious Charge / What Armour ? / Unstoppable Advance


 

When I drew my cards, looking at the board, I instantly thought that I had to try something and to take some kind of calculated risk : Vol was 3 hexes away from Ironhail, and I had Treasure Lust in hand.

For his 1st activation, my opponent just moved Alensen to score Calculated Risk an then chose to inspire Lund.

An early attack was achievable...


 

So here are all the things that came to my mind at that time :

 

ALL THE REASONS WHY I THOUGHT VOL'S EARLY ATTACK WAS PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA, IN RELATION TO GO CONCEPTS :

(Note : If you don't remember the following Go concepts, you can have a look at my initial post... see the link above !)


 

01/ Sente (= initiative)

  • Taking the initiative
  • One-shoting one of my opponent's most important tools (i.e. Ironhail)
  • Denying objective control to him (with Survival Instincts on Vol, which here was an option if the attack was a success)


 

02/ Shape & Sabaki (= flexibility and efficiency)

  • Making the best possible use of my less crucial fighter
  • Improving my early threat range
  • Making my own overall formation instantly better by saving time for inspiration (because my opponent had to deal with this early threat)


 

03/ Korigatachi (= balance and overconcentration)

  • Keeping my opponent busy and forcing him to spend ressources on my weakest fighter (even if the attack had failed, Vol would have still been a threat because he would have still been able to charge later)
  • Avoiding to have an over-concentrated formation

 

 

04/ Kiai (= fighting spirit)

  • Showing reasonable aggressiveness
  • Trying not to be too passive, which can be killer against Profiteers and ranged warbands in general
  • Forcing my opponent to make difficult choices


 

All these were quite good reasons, and even if there was a possibility that my opponent had the perfect opening hand with the best possible surge objectives to benefit from Vol's presence near him, I finally chose to take that risk.

So, what happened ?

Vol rolled well, killed Enrik Ironhail, giving me a paramount Glory point and forcing my opponent to spend some important ressources to kill him, while my other dwarves were inspiring on their side of the board.

Later Round 1, then Round 2, the game was still balanced but it finally turned into a quite large Chosen Axes victory. Of course, this early move I described did not win me the game alone, but for sure it helped me to fill the gap between the two warbands' relative strenght.


 

To conclude with Go...

… I'd also say that this was a move that one could describe as a « two birds, one stone » move, according to the famous Chinese proverb that many Go player use & think about all the time.

In this case, because it had so many purposes, maybe we can say it even was something like « three or four birds, one stone »...


 

Because there are only 12 activations in a Warhammer Underworlds game (and because Chosen Axes are so slow), you should always try to make such multipurpose moves !


 

Have a nice week in Beastgrave !


 

Edited by WathLab
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I'm confused. If you went first, how did you play this card before taking your activation? It couldn't have been played until the first power step, in which case the opening board position seems unlikely.

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