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Let's Chat: Chosen Axes


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To Chosen Axes players all around the Mirrored City :

Which additional (faction-specific) cards would you like to see / do you think would improve the odds for us ?

Some kind of specific Inspiration Strikes ?

New movement ploys ?

Objectives that would be more compatible with aggro-flex strategy ?

Or a reaction ploy that would outpass defensive ploys / upgrades like Last Chance / Soul Trap on a dice roll ? 😮

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One thing would fix Chosen Axes immediately:

Change them from inspiring at the end of the phase to at the end of the model's activation.

Right now there are a grand total of two - two! - chances to meet the inspire condition, and it's easy to stop. (Yes, you can inspire at the end of the third, but it is meaningless at that point.)

 

As far as a card goes, guess about one that says any Chosen Axe model on an Objective cannot be pushed it driven back for the rest of the phase?

Edited by Sleboda
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14 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Change them from inspiring at the end of the phase to at the end of the model's activation. 

One would still need to spend the entire round 1 in order to inspire 2-3 members of the warband (and maybe even 4 with proper ploys), but at least it would succeed.

THAT would be awesome. (And maybe even too strong...)

I can't imagine what my current CA record would be... 😮 !

And I think the card you propose would be a very nice adding : one chance out of four (first hand) of not being disrupted on round 1 seems both significant and balanced !

That would also help flex builds, making easier to score objectives like supremacy, hold-objectives X, etc.

Edited by WathLab
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11 minutes ago, WathLab said:

I can't imagine what my current CA record would be... 😮 !

Yeah, after dozens of games with them, I did eventually get to where I was winning more than I was losing with these guys, but I suspect that a big part of that was my opponents becoming more and more distracted by newer cards coming out and replacing their Push ploys with them. I always knew that I was one flick of a card away from losing, but people seemed to be less inclined to include the cards that did that.

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:34 PM, Sleboda said:

but I suspect that a big part of that was my opponents becoming more and more distracted by newer cards coming out and replacing their Push ploys with them

Yes, that may be true ! I always have much more push / move ploys than any of opponents - the fact they have to deal with so many other threats make them forgot a bit about them... Hence maybe my Unlikely-Chosen-Axes-Ending-Very-Soon ongoing record of 9 victories in a row... I fear this will not happen again soon.

To go back to that balance question, I thought of another (weird) proposal yesterday :

As we all know, Mad Maegrim being mad...

(...)

It might seem logical that this crazy fellow begins games being already inspired... This is not a huge shift, but it would be nice and quite significant : 4 wounds, 3 move and some quite reliable low damage attack.

I know, I know, it's completely contradictory to the spirit of the rules / the game... but it would be a very simple fixing solution !

Edited by WathLab
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On 5/14/2019 at 6:29 AM, Sleboda said:

One thing would fix Chosen Axes immediately:

Change them from inspiring at the end of the phase to at the end of the model's activation.

Right now there are a grand total of two - two! - chances to meet the inspire condition, and it's easy to stop. (Yes, you can inspire at the end of the third, but it is meaningless at that point.)

 

As far as a card goes, guess about one that says any Chosen Axe model on an Objective cannot be pushed it driven back for the rest of the phase?

I wanted to provoke some discussions so I tried to summarize all this : what you said, what I've been adding, what i read here & there since then, etc.

With Grimnir's Blessing, let's make a Grand Poll !

 

A.jpg

B.jpg

C.jpg

Edited by WathLab
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A couple of warbands (mainly from Shadespire, but not exclusively) could use a lift.  I don't hate the idea of a new deck of cards coming out at the end each year, giving new cards to warbands from the year before.  

Similar to the Leaders pack, there would be cards for everyone, but not all of them would be equally as impactful.  So Chosen Axes might get their faction-specific Inspiration Strikes, while Warbands who are holding up better like Magore's Fiends or Farstriders might get more novelty or thematic cards rather than something obviously powerful.

You could even put new fighter cards in there for some warbands, including the improved Inspire condition for Chosen Axes.  Orcs might get a slight buff on Hakka and Basha, and / or Cleave on Bonekutta for example, to close the gap with Magore's Fiends.

Edited by PlasticCraic
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On 5/20/2019 at 12:26 AM, PlasticCraic said:

Also - One other card that I think would give Chosen Axes a lift would be a Fjul-specific Tome of Offerings, similar to how Magore's and Thorns have one for their chief beatstick.

Something like a Song of Offerings ! It sounds interesting ! (Even if I don't really play Chosen Axes this way, I mean around Fjul only, I can see that would help...)

And yes I hope we'll have some new cards for our old shadespire warbands...

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Now Season 2 is over, I wanted to share with you some of my last thoughts about Chosen Axes.

What do you guys think of this ? How do you play Chosen Axes now ?

 

As they're my main faction from the very beginning, I've come to pretty solid conclusions with them (of course some of them are very well-known, but some others may be a bit more personnal).

 

By now, this warband is a bit finesse to pilot, but is also very rewarding with a bit of training. Even if it will not last long, at that time my last deck is still undefeated (10 victories in a row, 14-7 average score versus Magore, Thorns, Gitz and Thundrik)...

 

From my experience, the most important idea seems to be this one : as you lack time, mobility and flexibity, you need to give them as much freedom, efficiency and fluidity as you can (you'll notice I don't write anything about match-ups, but that's another advantage you have with this way of thinking - you can very easily adapt to your opponent...).

 

With this general strategy, a Chosen Axes warband will be like a powerful and reliable war hammer, very predictable for the player, and very unpredictable for his opponent...

 

Which means, regarding deck-building :

- Take Inspiration Strikes and Regal Vision (because you gain so much when your dwarves are inspired - safety, speed, power, accuracy... it's almost equivalent to adding 3 or 4 good upgrades on each mini),

- If possible, every single card in your deck has to be useful regardless of which round you play it / of which dwarf you use it on. So cut everything that's too conditionnal (limit character restricted upgrades, cut ploys with conditions that are too difficult to meet, even if they seem very strong) or too niche, or relies on unlikely combos...

- Boost speed using push-ploys (at least 5) and upgrades : you need to be able to reach your opponent and to plan some nasty surprises. Moreover, more push-ploys may also mean less move or charge tokens... thus much more freedom for your dwarves,

- Boost accuracy (I mainly use upgrades for this) : as you'll have only few occasions of attacking / scoring, you need them to be successfull... I found that Inspired Fjul is not that reliable, especially against 2 dice dodge defense...

- Don't take too many defensive power cards (in my deck, I only have one of them), you have other priorities... If you manage to inspire them correctly (see below), your dwarves are quite durable,

- Only take objectives that you are 100 % sure to achieve / that don't lead you to sub-optimal strategies or forced plays / that can't be countered easily. Of course that means that your glory total has great chance to be quite low, but in a best-of-3 match I believe that with Chosen Axes some reliable-quite-low-total-scoring is better that unreliable-high-total-scoring (most of the time, I cycle and score my entire objective deck)... You need to make a good start with them, so reliability is a very important thing. From this peculiar reliabilty perspective, a good Round 3 objective is Conquest, which is very hard to counter and can also be used with Unstoppable Advance,

- Also don't be too greedy and don't take too many score immediately objectives (with dwarves I think 5 is ok) : they almost always rely on fighting, which can be bad versus defensive or control opponents or if you don't get them at the right time...

- Test your deck, with every available tool, to ensure you reached this fluid quality that seems so important with dwarves : in-game testings, online drawing simulators, debates with friends, etc. (While preparing my deck, using very precise criteria, I made about 500 online drawing simulations - with mulligan when needed - to discover that 90 % of the time both my objective hand and my power hand were good in view of my strategy, and very good 50 % of the time.)

 

And which means, regarding strategy :

- Round 1, inspire as many dwarves as you can, using every single tool available to you : inspiration strikes and regal vision, moves, push-ploys, etc. (I almost always have 2 inspired dwarves on the board at the end of Round 1, often 3 and sometimes 4 at the very beginning of Round 2. Here's an example of a good Round 1 sequence I frequently play : Dwarf A moves on objective then I use Regal vision then I push him using some ploy to move Dwarf B on the same objective at the end of the Round...),

- For that reason, mulligan your first power cards hand if you don't have at least Inspiration Strikes or Regal Vision or several good push ploys,

- Round 1, even if your first hand is good, consider drawing one card (or even two cards sometimes) if your opponent does'nt threat you too much, in order to get momentum as early as possible,

- While setting-up : be very careful about distances and group your dwarves as much as you can in order to set up multiple inspirations... It's very helpful if even with only two objectives on your side, you can reach at least 2 objectives with each dwarf... The Mirror Well, Kathophrane Reliquary and the Cursed Oubliette are nice boards to achieve this,

- Don't lose too much time : put your objectives in front of you and play as aggressivley as you can,

- Because relying on Fjul only is somehow risky (because he can die early, because he can't be everywhere at the same time, and because using him only is also a kind of telegraphed strategy), also use your other dwarves, especially Tefk (strong and very reliable) or even Maegrim (against low wounds warbands)... For your opponent, multiple threats are harder to counter...

- As always, be sure to know your deck by heart. Every single card and every effect...

- And of course : yell Khâzad Khâzad !

Edited by WathLab
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Very interesting takes @WathLab thank you for sharing! 

Totally agree on the Fjul risk, missing that 2 dice first attack is a game clogger! I find myself trying to load up on ploys to allow re-rolls/extra dice and hoping they appear in the first 2 hands. As I practise opening hand plays I found myself ditching 3+ Upgrade hands almost instantly because I feel the Axes need the ploys so much more than other cards in order to start the game well. 

You don't have to reveal your deck but I'm curious which defensive cards you take? I currently run Rebound, Ur-Gold boon, Vamp. Weapon , +1 Fjul defence and debating on adding a Great Fortitude in to help vs Gloryseekers.  

Edited by KoganStyle
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Thanks ! Totally agree when you say the Axes need a first hand full of ploys...

Currently, I only take Grimnir's Fortitude (which is the ONLY exception to my conditionnal principles, but I love the card so much...) and*  Great Fortitude. The simpler, the better. With inspired dwarves you'll trigger Gloryseeker anyway that's why I prefer Great Fortitude over any other defensive card. With Ur-Gold boon or Vampire Weapon, you need to be wounded, which seems too conditionnal for me in this deck... and also doesn't prevent your dwarves from being one-shot.

Of course rebound is ok, I often use it myself in my other decks but here I try to build a very reliable war hammer...

*(Edit June 2019 : Grimnir's Fortitude replaced by Duellist Speed)

Edited by WathLab
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  • 2 weeks later...

Chosen Axe's secret tech? Combining Spiritbond with War Song.

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Grimnir equips Spiritbond and chooses Vol. Vol equips War Song which makes him count as 2 supporting fighters.  This could see some use as spirit bond is helpful for Grmnir who is often out numbered (but never outgunned 💪 😎) and War Song, while never making it into a single deck I've built could be a nice bonus depending on how free you are with the upgrade slots.

Does the fusion of the two turn Fjul Grimnir into the Spirit of War? or is it more of a Song bond, shared between two drunks reminiscing over the 'Good ole days' before waggling fingers was considered a skill.

Edited by KoganStyle
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Ah... I can see there's another real die-hard dwarf fellow here.

What you discovered is brilliant. Are Chosen Axes the true winners of the Power Unbound meta shake ? Even if I don't like combos in general, I'll definitely give it a try.

At last (and at least), we know what Vol's role and purpose are...

Fjul as the Sprit of War, wow and yes : as it would almost be like a permanent Potion of Rage bonus (no comment). I like this drunkard story a lot. Alas, I'm afraid our Runefather might be a bit too severe to enjoy drinking songs. Maybe more a kind of Tefk-thing ?

Edited by WathLab
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5 hours ago, WathLab said:

Ah... I can see there's another real die-hard dwarf fellow here.

What you discovered is brilliant. Are Chosen Axes the true winners of the Power Unbound meta shake ? Even if I don't like combos in general, I'll definitely give it a try.

At last (and at least), we know what Vol's role and purpose are...

Fjul as the Sprit of War, wow and yes : as it would almost be like a permanent Potion of Rage bonus (no comment). I like this drunkard story a lot. Alas, I'm afraid our Runefather might be a bit too severe to enjoy drinking songs. Maybe more a kind of Tefk-thing ?

Thanks, its actually this conversation with you that has stopped me straying into the Dankhold caves....

So I ran some numbers through Warband odds and it does seem that Inspired Spirit of War Fjul would have the same odds of succeeding vs 1 dice shield opponent as Inspired Potion of Rage (PoR)  Fjul would (85%). PoR Fjul would of course have a greater chance of getting a crit. Ordinarily Inspired Fjul hits 1 shield opponents 65% of the time. Either option gives a straight up boost of 20% (I'm not factoring any rerolls into this) 

Spirit of War Fjul vs 2 dice dodge looks like a 66% success rate vs PoR Fjul's 72%. Without these options our Inspired Fjul is only likely to hit 2 dodge opponents 47% of the time so these boosts look very useful. I imagine upgrade slots/objectives will swing it whether either/both PoR and Spiritbond/all three upgrades make it into your deck. 

For completeness:

Spiritbond Inspired Fjul vs 1 Shield: 77%, up 12%

Spiritbond Inspired Fjul vs 2 Dodge: 57%, up 10%

 

Disclaimer - I play against Skaven a lot so I just used their stats (My entry into the book of grudges is long on the topic of Lurking Skaven...) 

 

Edited by KoganStyle
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Thanks for the maths : I'm the kind of player who always tries to memorize what the odds approximatively are to use them in-game - so I appreciate this very much...

With this and Blazing Soul, maybe we've got some kind of rebalance after all... The more my dwarves are reliable, the more I love them.

Disclaimer II - I play against Skaven  a lot so your odds are fully understandable for me ! (Yes, Lurking Skaven has this very nice habit of making strong guys miss their first attack, but I have to admit here I completely forgive him for this. My own book is full of green(skins/spirits) grievances...).

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On 6/24/2019 at 2:46 PM, KoganStyle said:

Does the fusion of the two turn Fjul Grimnir into the Spirit of War?

Aside from maths, if this premonitory vision by the famous 19th japanese artist Utagawa Kuyinoshi is right, I guess the answer is yes...

It is called : Dwarf Secret Tech saving poor Orruks from all these cruel new warbands (new warbands that I love too, of course, especially Thorns, Profiteers and Gitz...).

 

32236581_Season1and2balance.jpg.871de134a1fe739e85f85eb41515c3cf.jpg

 

Edited by WathLab
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Running this a few times and I found that it is unlikely to gain the upgrades in the order you need (Spirit bond then War Song) and if you need to ditch your opening hand you could lose one or the other and neuter the effectiveness of the combo. Particularly if Spirit bond is discarded as War Song is essentially a junk card.

Blazing soul is great, alongside Upper hand (if Upper Hand can break 0 - 0 success ties). Spike is easily scored with great strength on Grmnir or Concealed weapon/other damage boosts on Tefk. 

 

 

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Too bad for Spirit War... That's why I don't like combos in general.

Do you run all the inspiration tools available to us now ? Inspiration Strikes, Blazing Soul AND Regal Vision ?

And that's nice if spike can be easily scored (how often in your case ?). I'll try it in my deck !

Edited by WathLab
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On 7/3/2019 at 5:55 PM, WathLab said:

Too bad for Spirit War... That's why I don't like combos in general.

Do you run all the inspiration tools available to us now ? Inspiration Strikes, Blazing Soul AND Regal Vision ?

And that's nice if spike can be easily scored (how often in your case ?). I'll try it in my deck !

No Regal vision for me, those ploy slots are so contested! 

I've played 3 games this week and 2 occasions I was able to score it. One was a Great Strength Grimnir and the other being an Inspired Maegrim and Tefk charge into a model.  

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