Changer Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 So I got my boxes last night, and immediately put the Fyreslayers together. If I'm being perfectly honest, I'm a little disappointed that each one of them has toes sculpted to the base. I normally like the paint the model separate from the base, but now I've had to attach them in order to greenstuff the tiny gap (I don't like any gaps, especially on flesh!). Still, I'm looking forward to painting them. I wanted my Fyreslayers to not be tied to objectives - yes, I want to try to sit on an objective to get inspired, but by not tying my deck to objectives, it's not a massive issue if someone plays Earthquake on me. With that in mind, my objectives are all about upgrades, punching people, and slowly but surely ending up in my opponents half. Escalation Master of War The Bigger They Are Precise Use of Force Ploymaster Unstoppable Advance Scion of Grimnir No Remorse Ferocious Charge Swift Advance Brawl Conquest I then laid out all of the ploys I wanted - which came to 25!!!! There are so many good ploys available nowadays. Anyway, I've managed to whittle my list down to a 24 card deck. Defiant Strike Grimnir's Speed Grimnir's Blessing Grimnir's Fortitude Great Strength Shadeglass Axe Soultrap Awakened Weapon Activated Runes Great Fortitude Helpful Whispers Great Swing Duel of Wits Mighty Swing Healing Potion The Earth Shakes Ur-gold Boon Living Wall Indomitable Oathsworn Ready for Action Piercing Stare Distration Sidestep As you can see, I'm focused on movement and damage prevention. Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to try this out until next Wednesday; but I'll report back once I've had a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biboune Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Changer said: So I got my boxes last night, and immediately put the Fyreslayers together. If I'm being perfectly honest, I'm a little disappointed that each one of them has toes sculpted to the base. I normally like the paint the model separate from the base, but now I've had to attach them in order to greenstuff the tiny gap (I don't like any gaps, especially on flesh!). Still, I'm looking forward to painting them. I wanted my Fyreslayers to not be tied to objectives - yes, I want to try to sit on an objective to get inspired, but by not tying my deck to objectives, it's not a massive issue if someone plays Earthquake on me. With that in mind, my objectives are all about upgrades, punching people, and slowly but surely ending up in my opponents half. Escalation Master of War The Bigger They Are Precise Use of Force Ploymaster Unstoppable Advance Scion of Grimnir No Remorse Ferocious Charge Swift Advance Brawl Conquest I then laid out all of the ploys I wanted - which came to 25!!!! There are so many good ploys available nowadays. Anyway, I've managed to whittle my list down to a 24 card deck. Hi, I understand that you don't want to focus on Hold Objectives but don't you fear that playing none of them isn't a risky gamble? I'll try The Bigger They Are, Precise Use of Force etc. but with The Reavers: you need to pick your target in order to deal the right amount of damage. I think you may have trouble to do it with speed 2, same thing with Brawl and may be with Ferocious Charge. You have some ploys to push fighters but will it be enough to make reach the right target or the right number of targets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 31 minutes ago, Biboune said: Hi, I understand that you don't want to focus on Hold Objectives but don't you fear that playing none of them isn't a risky gamble? I'll try The Bigger They Are, Precise Use of Force etc. but with The Reavers: you need to pick your target in order to deal the right amount of damage. I think you may have trouble to do it with speed 2, same thing with Brawl and may be with Ferocious Charge. You have some ploys to push fighters but will it be enough to make reach the right target or the right number of targets? It's difficult to say without playing a game I suppose. I've just never liked the idea of sitting on objectives all game - if you win the first roll you're only placing 2 objectives, and a canny player will make it extremely unlikely you'll be getting anywhere near the other three. I've got a number of objectives that reward me for getting the entire warband in the opponents territory; which even with a bad draw of ploys I should be able to do by the third turn. If someone wants to sit at the back of the board then I'll do this by turn 2, and if they come forward for a scrap I should be able to hold my own and score from kills and the other objectives. It's not going to be perfect, but we'll see what happens in the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Murder Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Hi Changer, In comparing our decks (you can see mine earlier in the thread), I noticed the key difference is in the hold 1-5 objectives. The reason I am keeping them in mine is that getting 1-2 glory in that first round is key along with inspiring your guys. This seems like a great way to get two birds stoned. There is a small "release day" tourney this weekend, so I'll share my first results, Good luck to you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rintrah56 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Played a couple of games against Sepulchral Guard today. First game seemed like it was going to be a SG victory but then Fjul got upgraded to have +2 movement. He was also inspired, meaning 5 movement - stormed through the middle of the board to take out the Warden, leaving SG unable to pull off a 3rd turn combo. Came out of nowhere and totally changed the game - win for Chosen Axes. Second game, Warden was guarding against that happening again. This time, Chosen Axes used the ploy that lets you push a fighter 3 hexes as long as they end on an objective...which there just happened to be one of right next to Warden. Another out of nowhere surge across the board...but this time fluffed attacks and the Warden took him out in response. Game ended in a draw. Another game later if we get time... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 We played two 1on1 games and 4 4-player games yesterday. I used the Chosen Axes, or should I say, Fjul and the Other Three. It's really all about Fjul, from what I'm seeing so far. I didn't win any games (Orruks won every game, because Orruks), but Fjul surprised often. I like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 hello all please let me know your thoughts on my deck hold objective 1-5 swift advance conquest ploymaster ferocious charge scion of grimnir unstoppable advance alone in the dark UPGRADES grimnirs speed grimnirs blessing grimnirs fortitude great speed legendary swiftness awakened weapon great fortitude activated runes sprinter headlong charge PLOY sidestep treasure lust indomitable berserk fury piercing stare distraction the earth shakes earthquake no time shifting shards im going to be real aggressive so mobility is helpful and to ensure my dudes get inspired i have a ton of ploys to ensure if someone moves me i can move back. main damage dealer will be Fjul and Tefk as secondary. what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Sleboda said: We played two 1on1 games and 4 4-player games yesterday. I used the Chosen Axes, or should I say, Fjul and the Other Three. It's really all about Fjul, from what I'm seeing so far. I didn't win any games (Orruks won every game, because Orruks), but Fjul surprised often. I like him. Well to be fair, Orruks are just Gurzag and the other three. They play really similarly, except Dorfs want to be a bit more passive turn 1 until they Inspire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biboune Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I have not played against them yet but I am quite surprised by what you said: I feel that the Chosen Axes should be very good against Orruks. SCE can scored without fighting and gear up while the Axes get inspired. But how do the Orruks spend their first round? Then, the Axe's offensive ploys look good, quite as good as Orruk's ones. I feel that you are quite hard with "the other three". Vol and Tefk are quite good. "The other two" is the name of the duo Targor and Arnulf, "The other three" is the name of the petitioners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 16/02/2018 at 12:53 PM, Kaptain Murder said: There is a small "release day" tourney this weekend, so I'll share my first results, Good luck to you! How did your games go last weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 I'm very up in the air whether or not to include the Hold Objectives. On one hand, if you draw them early and get the right ones, you can get some Glory cranking quickly. On the other, if they end up being drawn in Turn 2/3, you might be far more invested in fighting than camping, depending on the state of the game. I think it's worth skipping them and getting the easier to score fighty ones that you can score and cycle quickly once inspired. Also, I'm seriously considering putting all 3 '+1 Move' cards in my deck, just for some consistent movement, since the Dorfs are slow but want to fight. 3 might be overkill, but I have room and don't think I'm playing for the Keys, so we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 14 hours ago, Requizen said: Well to be fair, Orruks are just Gurzag and the other three. They play really similarly, except Dorfs want to be a bit more passive turn 1 until they Inspire. I can see that, for sure. Played 3 more last night. Had a total of 2 inspired fighters over the course of the evening. It's looking like their inspire condition is the hardest in the game. You get two chances to do it (who cares if you inspire at the end of round 3) and there are many ways to prevent it. In my games last night, Earthquake or other pushes, plus basic attacks, kept knocking my fighters off. Super tough to counter. I'm thinking it may be best to assume you will not get inspired all game and just look at times you do as bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, Sleboda said: I can see that, for sure. Played 3 more last night. Had a total of 2 inspired fighters over the course of the evening. It's looking like their inspire condition is the hardest in the game. You get two chances to do it (who cares if you inspire at the end of round 3) and there are many ways to prevent it. In my games last night, Earthquake or other pushes, plus basic attacks, kept knocking my fighters off. Super tough to counter. I'm thinking it may be best to assume you will not get inspired all game and just look at times you do as bonus. Out of curiosity, what Ploys were you using? There are 5 Ploys that move a friendly Fighter at least one Hex and one that moves Objectives, so I'm stacking all 6 into my deck just to make sure I'm getting at least Fjul Inspired on Turn 1. Would prefer Fjul + Tefk, and those two + Vol would essentially end the game if you get them on T1. Here's what I'm looking at currently: Objectives Ploys Upgrades Ferocious Charge The Earth Shakes Grimnir's Blessing Scion of Grimnir Treasure Lust Grimnir's Fortitude Unstoppable Advance Sidestep Grimnir's Speed Assassinate Shifting Shards Great Fortitude Denial Earthquake Great Speed Crushing Force Living Wall Great Strength Conquest Ready for Action Legendary Swiftness Plant a Standard Indomitable Soultrap Fury of the Lodge Oathsworn Sprinter Claim Retaken Piercing Stare Cursed Artifact Superior Tactician Victorious Duel Not sure about Piercing Stare, might swap with Healing Potion to keep Fjul alive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Sleboda said: I can see that, for sure. Played 3 more last night. Had a total of 2 inspired fighters over the course of the evening. It's looking like their inspire condition is the hardest in the game. You get two chances to do it (who cares if you inspire at the end of round 3) and there are many ways to prevent it. In my games last night, Earthquake or other pushes, plus basic attacks, kept knocking my fighters off. Super tough to counter. I'm thinking it may be best to assume you will not get inspired all game and just look at times you do as bonus. why not take the same movement ploys? they move you then you move back and take that card that doesnt let ploys be used on thr last turn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 There area no guarantees you'll get what you need, on either side, and it only takes them having one more than you have to mess you up. Plus! They can attack you to push you off. The play is stacked in favor of the aggressor, not the defender, when it comes to securing Objectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 40 minutes ago, Sleboda said: There area no guarantees you'll get what you need, on either side, and it only takes them having one more than you have to mess you up. Plus! They can attack you to push you off. The play is stacked in favor of the aggressor, not the defender, when it comes to securing Objectives. Eh, that's being a bit pessimistic. If you put the 6 movement Ploys in your deck, you get a 87% chance of drawing at least one in your opening hand. If you mulligan, that jumps to a 99% chance. Not bad odds of having at least one of them turn 1, not to mention drawing them with Actions if you want. As for knocking off, that's definitely true, but that can be played around. Putting your Objectives back can prevent warbands from getting to you without movement ploys of their own, since you know enemy movement and starting hexes. Plus, you can hold off moving onto them until later activations, preventing your opponent from knocking you off for nothing. I agree they're probably one of the trickier warbands to Inspire, but it's not really impossible or worth giving up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Not saying impossible, but Skaven are the clear better warband of the two in our matchups so far. Details later when I'm not using my phone to post. Edit: Home now. To answer the earlier question, I am using these ploys: Treasure Lust Ready for Action Sidestep Shardfall Spoils of Battle The Earth Shakes Piercing Stare Dual of Wits We Shall Not Be Moved Distraction Oathsworn I am about to play another set of three. The Skaven player has swapped out some stuff, and I will be making some small changes as well. The problem with going for a mulligan to get movement cards is that you risk tossing away from Fjul-focused upgrades, and the warband really is 90% about him. Getting him inspired is critical, as this is the only way to handle Heroslayer. My opponent has had it early in all games, and even has had Black Hunger usually as well. If you don't go fight Hungering Skaven every round, the Skaven player gets to choose who she fights, killing Fjul with the 4-damage attack. But! Because you went to him instead of making him move to you, the dilemma remains the same next round. You can't sit far enough away from the skaven side to avoid getting charged because if you do, you will never make it to the other side of the board or even get to kill anything. Skaven movement, so far, has totally dictated the way the games unfold. It's a real pickle. Edited February 20, 2018 by Sleboda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Murder Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 My FLGS had a release -day tournament and there was some good Shadespire action going. I am happy to say that my slayers did surprisingly well, in spite of the fact that it was my first time with them. Here are some thoughts: Inspiring and snowballing some glory early is crucial, especially for Grimnir. I'll echo what was already said that the warband is 90% about the leader. I based my upgrades on which ones I'd want on Grim. I went with a balanced deck. Hold Obv 1-5, Denial/Conquest, escalation, no remorse, precise use of force, scion of grim, fer charge I used Vol as my support/dangle bro, then Grimnir and Tefk for a sweet 1-2 punch as needed. Maelgrim held back to score easy objectives and play "safety" in case anyone ran passed the scrimage line or a skaven came up in my backfield. This proved successful every time. I took 4 movement cards with sidestep, earth shakes, treasure lust and earthquake Earthquake is amazing. When you get to plan ahead for when its used, it can completely "shake" the game I had some good luck but almost lost everything when my leader barely survived a Spiteclaw Time Trap double-spear . Keep Grimnir alive at all costs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Three more games in the books vs. Skaven. Lost 6-3 Lost 3-3 on a tie breaker. Won 9-4 when my opponent tried some crazy strategies and board placements, allowing Fjul to charge and kill a thing in Turn One, snowballing the warband. I think the Axes will win games here and there, but not be a good tournament army because they are soooo easy to thwart and they won't score a lot of glory even when they win. Fun warband, for sure, but far, far too dependent on getting Turn One objectives/glory. Thinking about it, it's the same mistake GW has made with dwarfs traditionally for decades - too slow. Edited February 20, 2018 by Sleboda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 How is everyone doing with their Fyreslayers? I'm two games in (a 5-5 tie, and an 8-1 loss, both against a punchy Orruk warband) and I'm just not 'feeling' the fyreslayers in the same way I've felt the other warbands. It's a real shame, as they're newly painted, but I really don't see how to proceed with them. It doesn't help that in both games I never really seemed to pull any ploys; but either way I'm not sure how to play with them. Fyreslayers are slow - if you stack your deck with ploys that help with movement you miss out on other things, such as stacking rerolls etc... I don't feel you can play for objectives either, as they're just too slow to get any objectives that might be sitting on the other side of the board. They'll get kited by Skaven and Khorne (not that Khorne want to run away of course!), and just don't have the staying power of a heavy hitting warband. I'm not one to shirk from a challenge, but I do feel a bit lost with the Fyreslayers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 It seems that Fyreslayers are the best warband for sitting on objectives, which was previously the niche that Stormcast filled. If you build a deck with lots of pushing and objective swapping, and keep enemies out of your face for the first turn, then you can do very well. I don't think I've enjoyed this game more than when Fjul charged 6 spaces past 2 bodyguards and killed Spiteclaw in a single strike. Ironjawz seem to be the easiest matchup. You can comfortably sit back on objectives for one turn then pound them in combat. Skaven have been the toughest matchup for this style of Fyreslayers, since it's very hard to be out of range of turn 1 charges. Daemonic Weapon and Heroslayer attached to a suicide rat are risky gambits, but they can basically end the game if they work. If you push them out of range you also inspire them for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 Got a couple games in with the Dorfs tonight. They feel... awkward. You want to get on objectives to Inspire, but the cards and statlines want to fight. I'm sure there's some build out there that makes it work but I'm not really convinced of how effective it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templar101 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I really don't like their playstyle after having a few games with them. Thought I'd love them but they are far too restricting. You will always have to go for the objectives so your opponent knows your gameplan before the game has even started. It's the same reason I dropped Orruks but on a larger/worse scale. You wanna sit back and inspire but the stats and awesome FS objectives want you to be in your opponent's face. If only they inspired via being equipped with upgrades instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I've changed my deck about a little again for today. I've got another game against my regular Orruk opponent at lunchtime, and then a casual event this evening. If I'm still not feeling the Fyreslayers by the end of the day, they'll be relegated to the cabinet and I'll play another warband instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biboune Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) On 19/02/2018 at 11:44 PM, Sleboda said: Not saying impossible, but Skaven are the clear better warband of the two in our matchups so far. Details later when I'm not using my phone to post. Edit: Home now. To answer the earlier question, I am using these ploys: Treasure Lust Ready for Action Sidestep Shardfall Spoils of Battle The Earth Shakes Piercing Stare Dual of Wits We Shall Not Be Moved Distraction Oathsworn If i May: Why do you have shardfall: it can block objective and you want to get on it. Spoil of Battle? you need it and a good upgrade in you hand... risky choice in my opinion. Kill someone, you ll get your glory, drop Spoil of Battle and you ll have another push ploy. Piercing Stare? at first looks great but, you use it on a skaven, he get inspired, another one can attack you... bad deal. As you go enemy territory you will be at charge range for multiple enemy models, so it can be useful sometime, most of the time at the 4th activation. We Shall Not Be Moved, painfully you are push by attacks and ploys so it is useless half of the time. Moreover when you play against skavens: they have only 2 potent fighter sand up to 2 distraction-like ploys. Dual of Wits, not fan of it: you don't know what you ll drawn. 2 upgrades? ploys that won't be useful right now? You can't know right away, looking at your hand, what you'll be able to do, if you need to mulligan. I think about a Chosen Axes deck, for the ploys: Earthquake The Earth Shake Side Step Living Wall Shifting Shards Ready for Action Treasure Lust Oathsworn Indomitable On 19/02/2018 at 11:44 PM, Sleboda said: The problem with going for a mulligan to get movement cards is that you risk tossing away from Fjul-focused upgrades, and the warband really is 90% about him. Getting him inspired is critical, as this is the only way to handle Heroslayer. My opponent has had it early in all games, and even has had Black Hunger usually as well. If you don't go fight Hungering Skaven every round, the Skaven player gets to choose who she fights, killing Fjul with the 4-damage attack. But! Because you went to him instead of making him move to you, the dilemma remains the same next round. You can't sit far enough away from the skaven side to avoid getting charged because if you do, you will never make it to the other side of the board or even get to kill anything. Skaven movement, so far, has totally dictated the way the games unfold. It's a real pickle. I think Tefk is a very good fighter. 3 dices, hitting on hammers when inspired : quite nice. Fjul has cleave, quite useless against Skavens. Heroslayer is nice, but skavens don't have re roll ploys, or +1 dice ploy on the first attack, so it up to awaken weapon or light armor to improve the hit chances. Without that, Heroslayer is very Dicey Edited February 23, 2018 by Biboune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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