Kugane Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Malakithe said: Wow lol go for it then. Might have to add various weights to keep balance up there It should be fine even without. The vortex is quite huge lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/24/2018 at 2:47 AM, Kugane said: It should be fine even without. The vortex is quite huge lol. Scrollbuilder lists the Bell as a behemoth. For matched play are behemoths considered monsters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 23 hours ago, Malakithe said: Scrollbuilder lists the Bell as a behemoth. For matched play are behemoths considered monsters? Most behemoths are monsters, but not the Screaming Bell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I just played a game against Free Peoples and was wondering: how do you guys deal with heavy shooting armies? I've had problems against Tzeentch and Free People (especially the great company with units lending support). The battles mostly end up in a Culloden kind of way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Num said: I just played a game against Free Peoples and was wondering: how do you guys deal with heavy shooting armies? I've had problems against Tzeentch and Free People (especially the great company with units lending support). The battles mostly end up in a Culloden kind of way... Surprisingly, by rushing their position. Tzeentch requires specific maneuvers (sto just outside of spell range, then rush everything) - but free people will buckle under a wave of rats. You just need double their amount in clanrats, and victory will be assured. Kill the free people general as quickly as possible, or else the engagement will not go your way, since he is likely packing indomitable, making all his soldiers more tanky. Keep your warlord out of line of sight, and only engage with him when the fight is tipping in your favor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I need ideas for a mixed list. Hordes + toys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 47 minutes ago, Malakithe said: I need ideas for a mixed list. Hordes + toys I got you covered!! 9 units of 40x clanrats, a warlord, and a rubber duck! In seriousness, whatcha looking for? aggressive, defensive, magic heavy, shootint heavy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mayple said: I got you covered!! 9 units of 40x clanrats, a warlord, and a rubber duck! In seriousness, whatcha looking for? aggressive, defensive, magic heavy, shootint heavy, etc. Haha...I dont know. My normal list building usually leans towards balanced for all comers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, Malakithe said: Haha...I dont know. My normal list building usually leans towards balanced for all comers Aight. Well as long as you're outside of Skryre, you should really load up on the horde aspect of Skaven. For 2000 pts, my personal recommendation is either 5x40 clanrats, or 3x40 clanrats, plus 1x40 stormvermin. Both of these puts you at 1000 and 900 points left, respectively, which you will want to use on heroes, Skryre toys, and gutter runners. Having half your points be allocated towards the clanrats is neccessary due to how Skaven play. Your rule of thumb should be 'more than you need' - expendable units is the advantage we have. Notable cheap heroes: Arch-warlock - great tanky spellcaster who can dish out damage in close combat, and is your most reliable anti-hero unit. Warlock engineer - can really dissuade an opponent from moving heroes/monsters into his threat range. More useful as a control element/distraction than an actual spellcaster. Don't overload unless you're targeting a hero/elite unit Warlord - don't bring any unless you need to fill up hero slots, or Kritch Spiteclaw is your general. Defensive heroes: Grey seer - Good choice as a defensive general. Tuck him in your backlines behind a LOS blocking terrain, and keep your units in range of his command ability. Thanquol on Boneripper - Great against all-melee opponents, as you can block the whole board with a line of 40 clanrats, and make them really tanky with his command ability. Turns Stormvermin into Stormcast. Offensive heroes: Verminlord Warbringer - Turns your clanrats into capable soldiers, and Stormvermin into monsters. Vulnerable to getting shor off the table early though, but a good choice as a supporting character instead of a general to mitigate this. Warlord on brood horror - Good supporting character. Needs to pick good fights to regenerate properly, but can tear through most enemy heroes if you get first attack. Verminlord Deceiver - more of a solo hero than anything meant to work with your army. Okay at killing enemy heroes, but requires you to be aggressive all around the board with the rest of the army to avoid getting singled out. Warpgnaw Verminlord - controlled tunneling. Great for aggressive multiple-fronts warfare. Tons of damage. Great supporting character, but expensive. Neutral heroes: Screaming bell - looks scary, but doesn't really do much. Likes moshpits. Meh as general, but extra movement is nice. Packmaster - only worth it alongside stormfiends or a bunch of moulder units. Super cheap and squishy. Plague priest - Great supporting character. Super cheap. Can turn giant rats into meatgrinders. Verminlord warpseer - almost a defensive hero. Not super good, not super bad. Better than a Pestilens verminlord against non-horde armies. Notable toys: Poison wind mortar - Great. Cheap. Awesome. Bring three or five. Gutter runners - expendable flanking unit. Pays their own cost the moment your opponent decides to deal with them, since that is usually resources spent that is not hitting the rest of your stuff. Two is a good amount to bring. Stormfiends - your hammer. Best with one to two packmasters buffing them, equipped with shock gauntlets. Warp projectors are good, but at that point you should rather take warpfire throwers, since the increased unit count gives you more flexibility. Warplightning cannon/plague claw - outmatched by warpfire throwers and mortars, due to the increased amount of shots. Warplightning cannon is the best of the two in terms of cost, as it can compete with warpfire throwers with sheer range. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Great summary I find warplightning cannons to be complementary to poisoned wind and warpfire. Mortal wounds at a range. Whereas plague claw is somehow redundant with poisoned wind mortars. At the moment I'm still turning my head around screaming bells. I don't have any but I've kept rolling dices just to get a feeling on it's ability. Every outcome looks nice to have in about every circumstance. And with two of them the ability to double the attacks gets even more likely to occur! To me, it seems like a huge 12-wound spell-casting buffing-debuffing hero at only 200 points that attracts attention and can even hide some small heroes behind. But perhaps it doesn't do much in reality as you suggest. Also thanks for the suggestion on the shooting matchup. I'm in the process of collecting more warp lightning cannons to snipe heroes, and will definitely bring tons of clanrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 @Num In my experience with running one as my general over several games, it is not -useless-, but it doesn't do very much. I think two could do some interesting stuff though, as long as neither of them are your general. A grey seer general could do well there. My dilemma lies with the flat 200 cost, which is the same as 40 clanrats. There are so few situations where 'more rats' is not the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I see the point, but if we play the "300 rats" strategy, what does verminus have that Pestilens doesn't with 300 plague monks (or moulder with 300 giant rats)? For the bell I was thinking two with a deathrunner, and grey seer or skritch with a warlord. That makes two heavy threats (bells and blobs of rats) and a ton of heroes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 My only problem with trying to build a list is I like everything lol I like hordes of rats and casters and toys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 20 hours ago, Num said: I see the point, but if we play the "300 rats" strategy, what does verminus have that Pestilens doesn't with 300 plague monks (or moulder with 300 giant rats)? For the bell I was thinking two with a deathrunner, and grey seer or skritch with a warlord. That makes two heavy threats (bells and blobs of rats) and a ton of heroes Verminus is the superior choice for out-maneuvering. Their ability to gain movement while running/retreating, and being able to retreat+charge by their own, makes them the best out-maneuvering unit in the game. They don't want to moshpit, unless they're 10 to 1, and should be played accordingly. Plague monks and giant rats, on the other hand, are combat focused units, but lack the mobility shenanigans of Verminus. They want to moshpit. Plague monks are also slightly more expensive than giant rats and clanrats, which will add up in larger numbers. I actually think giant rats can be competitive, and does fit the ally points rather well. A plague monk or two will make them a real threat. Ideal allies for a non-shooty Verminus army if we ever get allegiance, perhaps? Maybe even Pestilens/Skryre. Your bell plan sounds neat I'd be very interested in seeing how that pans out. Do let us know if you go with it! who did you plan as your general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 22 hours ago, Mayple said: Your bell plan sounds neat I'd be very interested in seeing how that pans out. Do let us know if you go with it! who did you plan as your general? I'm very unlikely to test this soon because these models are quite expensive but I was thinking of some "everyone gets buffs" list along this line: Leaders Verminlord Warbringer (300) - General - Trait: Great Destroyer Screaming Bell (200) Screaming Bell (200) - Artefact: Daemon Weapon Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80) Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80) Units 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 20 x Clanrats (120) - Rusty Blade 10 x Stormvermin (140) 10 x Stormvermin (140) 10 x Stormvermin (140) 6 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (360) Total: 2000 / 2000 Wounds: 154 Heroes are here to buff everyone, so the stormvermins can be taken in smaller chunks. Poisoned wind mortars push bells and hide behind them. Heroes and units stay in between the bells for area effects. It is purely theoretical however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 44 minutes ago, Num said: I'm very unlikely to test this soon because these models are quite expensive but I was thinking of some "everyone gets buffs" list along this line: Dropping two mortars and a unit of stormvermin will allow you to max out your clanrats and fix your current issue: low wound count. You've got around the same amount of wound I typically see in Skryre lists, which tend to make them very squishy. No harm in putting some extra meat on those bones Personally, I've been considering giant rats more and more lately, and I think in a Verminus 5x clanrats horde, it might be better to go 3xClanrats+2xGiant rats. All in blobs of 40. For diversity and threat saturation. Maybe a plague priest to tag along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I counted my unpainted clanrats. I have 160 of them. I have 80 painted up atm, I'm considering to take this 160 project, but afraid of a massive burnout. I would be able to field 240 clanrats at 1200 points, alongside Skritch and Co and some warlords on brood horror. Just need to buy some extra weapons for the clanrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Good grief, man, you're insane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 On 04.03.2018 at 9:36 PM, Kugane said: I counted my unpainted clanrats. I have 160 of them. I have 80 painted up atm, I'm considering to take this 160 project, but afraid of a massive burnout. I would be able to field 240 clanrats at 1200 points, alongside Skritch and Co and some warlords on brood horror. Just need to buy some extra weapons for the clanrats. This is the true Skaven way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Well, if anyone has spare clanrat weapons I am interrested xD. I am tempted to just speed paint all, but sort of want a nice standard too. Dilemmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Kugane said: Well, if anyone has spare clanrat weapons I am interrested xD. I am tempted to just speed paint all, but sort of want a nice standard too. Dilemmas! I have 20 swords from IoB set, and 20 spears I bought from eBay but have no plan on using yet. PM me and we could settle on something for sure As for me, 100 clanrats is enough. The painting doesn't bother me, but moving them on the battlefield does! I have movement trays but at my shop the terrain is very hilly... I've also thought of an "all stormvermin" army to reduce the body count but haven't found any interesting list yet (and I've got only 40 stormvermins so far). Waiting for ghb18 to see if any allegiance comes up to redefine things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Num said: I have 20 swords from IoB set, and 20 spears I bought from eBay but have no plan on using yet. PM me and we could settle on something for sure As for me, 100 clanrats is enough. The painting doesn't bother me, but moving them on the battlefield does! I have movement trays but at my shop the terrain is very hilly... I've also thought of an "all stormvermin" army to reduce the body count but haven't found any interesting list yet (and I've got only 40 stormvermins so far). Waiting for ghb18 to see if any allegiance comes up to redefine things... That would be great! To me personally the stormvermin are much harder to paint than clanrats, because theres so many hard to reach spots, plus clanrats are a lot smaller. 100 is indeed more than enough though, but I might as well put that brood horror to good use haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Hi, I‘m new to this forum. So it,s nice to meet some people who love to play skaven (and mostly Verminus). anyways I was wondering, if you guys could give me your opinion about a list of 2000p I created. 1Grey seer(120) 1Arch warlock engineer(140) 5x 40clanrats(1000) 3x 20clanrats(360) 2x30plague monks(420) 2000p/2000p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Hello and welcome Can you describe us some of the games you had so far? And what were the difficulties you encountered? I think that nobody here has this many clanrats yet. I think that some ideas were suggested in the previous pages and in the other topic you created: Dropping the plague monks Including some Skryre toys: poisoned wind mortar teams, warp lightning cannons... In order to get some ranged threats and hero/horde sniping Including some extra mobility: gutter runners, warp grinder weapon teams, doomwheels... In order to catpure objectives and cruise through the map Including some buff/debuff units: Screaming bells, Verminlord Warbringer, Plague Priests... In order to boost your clanrats (extra attacks, re-rolls, boosts to wounds...) Of course not everything could be included. Your call depending on the models you have at your disposal... Personnally I'd try 3 plague priests with plague censer and 3 poisoned wind mortars instead of your plague monks... You can make your clanrats auto-wound or wound on 2+... If you happen to have 2 screaming bells I'd be interested to see how that plays out too Extra attacks for everyone... Also I'd be interested in seeing Kugane's list because he also wants to field 260 rats. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Num said: Hello and welcome Can you describe us some of the games you had so far? And what were the difficulties you encountered? I think that nobody here has this many clanrats yet. I think that some ideas were suggested in the previous pages and in the other topic you created: Dropping the plague monks Including some Skryre toys: poisoned wind mortar teams, warp lightning cannons... In order to get some ranged threats and hero/horde sniping Including some extra mobility: gutter runners, warp grinder weapon teams, doomwheels... In order to catpure objectives and cruise through the map Including some buff/debuff units: Screaming bells, Verminlord Warbringer, Plague Priests... In order to boost your clanrats (extra attacks, re-rolls, boosts to wounds...) Of course not everything could be included. Your call depending on the models you have at your disposal... Personnally I'd try 3 plague priests with plague censer and 3 poisoned wind mortars instead of your plague monks... You can make your clanrats auto-wound or wound on 2+... If you happen to have 2 screaming bells I'd be interested to see how that plays out too Extra attacks for everyone... Also I'd be interested in seeing Kugane's list because he also wants to field 260 rats. Cheers I bought from a friend (who stopped playing) 10 000points worth of skaven for a very good price so yeah, I even got 3 screaming bells?(but mostly unpainted, since I’m still struggling in painting my other 140clanrats). but thanks for the tip, I might drop the 2plague units , the arch warlock and the grey seer for 3Bells and 3mortars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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