AverageBoss Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, someone2040 said: I think a lot of stuff sadly look pretty poor in comparison to Gore-Gruntas. Especially when you just look at raw damage output efficiency. I mean, Demigryph Knights are 20 points more and I think I'd prefer just taking the Gore-Gruntas. Demipryphs are also not in a good place. Honestly, I would probably put my money on 6 Goregruntas over 5 Bloodknights as well, especially now (not to mention Dracothian Guard). Hope both go down in points honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Got my White Dwarf last night and managed to flick through it before bed. In the Warscroll Cards they mention the tokens having 4 Gravesite markers and outline how Gravesites can bring summoned units onto the table and resurrect slain heroes 11 hours ago, Killax said: Well, wouldn't it be silly if the Knight of Shrouds wouldn't be in this book? I mean the books are litterly so close together and even after Malign Portents I think the Knight of Shrouds should remain a Hero available to them. I'm quite certain that if Stormcast would have another book in sight theirs would be included also. Same for Grots and same for Darkoath/Slaves to Darkness. Although the two books are being released at the same time, they likely weren't written at the same time or what the original release schedule was so I honestly can't see them being in the book. Could well be wrong, but I think for the time being Harbingers will be kept solely within the Malign Portents book and the rules that come with the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletomas Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 First; Goregruntas - Goregruntas should be seen in the context of their faction, which has only eight playable units, which makes every single unit much more precious. That is why Goregruntas has a low points cost compared to other cavalries. GW wanting the faction to be playable to some extent (and sell models). Now for something else In the new White Dwarf leaks there is an article on the Malign Portents stating that the book comes with new spells and two new command traits, one that allows the general to steal the lifeforce of nearby friendly units. That is for all you deathly minions out there: "Look out Sire!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, Teletomas said: First; Goregrontas - Goregruntas should be seen in the context of their faction, which has only eight playable units, which makes every single unit that much more precious. That is why Goregruntas has a low points cost compared to other cavalries. GW wanting the faction to be playable to some extent (and sell models). Now for something else In the new White Dwarf leaks there is an article on the Malign Portents stating that the book comes with new spells and two new command traits, one that allows the general to steal the lifeforce of nearby friendly units. That is for all you deathly minions out there: "Look out Sire!" 8 units is more than Bonerattle has. They only have 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletomas Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, AverageBoss said: 8 units is more than Bonerattle has. They only have 5. Which has just been taken care of with LEGIONS OF NAGASH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 A unit should not be bad just because there are other options that are good. That just results in the unit not being used (like currently). Skullcrushers are also much better than Black Knights, and Khorne is not exactly hurting for options. And I would certainly take a lone Fulminator over 5 Black Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletomas Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, AverageBoss said: A unit should not be bad just because there are other options that are good. That just results in the unit not being used (like currently). Skullcrushers are also much better than Black Knights, and Khorne is not exactly hurting for options. And I would certainly take a lone Fulminator over 5 Black Knights. You are seeing this in the wrong order. I did not say any unit should be bad (Black knights), but the contrary. You are writing about Black Knights, I was referring to the use of Goregruntas as the standard of cavalry. The points were too high for Goregruntas in their first book. Being a brand new and small faction, GW listened and lowered their points. Which can not be taken totally out of context and compared to any other cavalry without any further considerations towards what faction they are from.- Regarding whether Black Knights -that were ****** poor- are any good now, I don't know. That is irrelevant to my point regarding using Goregruntas as a standard to be dissapointed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletomas Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Anyway, I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 It's good to remember that black knights hav very easy and good buffs available. You can easily give them extra attacks or cast vanhels to them,in addition to any other stuff that the new book has. 20+20, 30+30 or even 40+40 lance strikes plus the horses in a charge starts to leave its mark even without rend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaurung Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I’m happy for you, my fellow Undead players. Being someone who plays FEC is hard, everyone is getting something except the poor Ghouls whose only fault is that their battletome was out before Sylvaneth (which introduced spell lores and artifacts). If only we could have a decent command ability... but this new deathly invocation is very good combined with the grave-tokens. Now every death army does what FEC was doing, but better (sorry for salt, still angry for GH2017) I read many talking about Tomb Kings: do we know for certain if they are gonna get included in these allegiances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickybluetoffee Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I wouldn’t expect anything for Tomb Kings. Happy to be surprised but they lost all their sub faction keywords. However it’s alwsys possible that all units with the Death keyword can take the different allegiance abilities in which case tomb kings would be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 hours ago, Envyus said: Aka a Mortis Engine. Except as an actual spellcaster and hero, with their own command ability, fit to lead your army. AoS currently lacks a proper necromancer general. But it's not happening right now, so oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerpot_chimp Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 45 minutes ago, Glaurung said: Now every death army does what FEC was doing, but better (sorry for salt, still angry for GH2017) Is it better? I'd say they have different strengths. DI has a bit more flexibility with heroes and how they heal, and the gravesites mechanic, but FEC mustering is pretty efficient especially for ghouls (a single courtier is probably going to bring more back than one or even two DI heroes standing next to a skeleton unit, the ghoul courtier is super cheap and the other courtiers are tougher to kill than wight kings). Mustering the multi-wound FEC models is a little less wonky than DI as well. FEC definitely got hosed with GH2017 though, totally agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riluo Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 33 minutes ago, stickybluetoffee said: I wouldn’t expect anything for Tomb Kings. Happy to be surprised but they lost all their sub faction keywords. However it’s alwsys possible that all units with the Death keyword can take the different allegiance abilities in which case tomb kings would be allowed. Yeah most of them still have death or Skeleton so in theory they could be considered part of the death faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmir Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/31/legions-nagash-legion-sacrament/ More goodness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickybluetoffee Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Well there’s some protection against shooting mentioned there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Legion of blood tomorrow~~ Aww yiss!! Sacrament does look like a lot of fun. I presume the masters teachings will require reinforcement points though? As its technically sort of setting up a new unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrekkugle Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Looks awesome! I just wish I knew which units go with each faction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 From a previous preview, all the special character legions have access to everything. Whether they mean the full death alliance (including TK and FEC units) or just everything in this book is at the moment unclear, but there aren't a restricted list of units that go with each individual legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iradekhorne Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I cant see how i can win to all this new stuff with a melé army like ironjawz or khorne or any melee army. Nagash can have 8 spells with +5 to cast, 2 spells for leech wounds and heal himself, the spells hitting twice a lot of times (cause to the +5), and he have the morgasts to throw them the wounds. And he can also unbind 8 spells with +4!! Any tzeentch army is comparable to this macig brutal overwhelming. Apart of these, the sumoning rule dont ssay anything about range or vision about the target, you can heal 5d3 (and potentially 6d3) with 4 heroes and nagash or arkhan, you can have 30 sepulcral guard healing 10 or 12 models for turn, and hitting twice with vanhel dance. What can i do if i can't kill any of his heroes? play vs this rules is gg, even if you have firepower he can mantain safe his heroes cause they dont need vision or range to summon.... Yes i'm going to wait until i se the book, but this rules make me think about the first really broken book of Age Of Sigmar.... and i really dont want another power scalation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 the double spells is on an unmodified 9+ to cast, so nagash's casting bonuses don't help there. The initial preview was in error on that and has since been updated. Still looks like an uphill battle for melee, but do remember that our units, while potentially very recursive, are also highly fragile. Ironjaws rip through skeletons like they're hardly even there. And our big heroes are very expensive, so the more of them you take, the fewer models there are to stand between them and a world of angry choppy hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Iradekhorne said: - I cant see how i can win to all this new stuff with a melé army like ironjawz or khorne or any melee army. - Nagash can have 8 spells with +5 to cast, 2 spells for leech wounds and heal himself, the spells hitting twice a lot of times (cause to the +5), and he have the morgasts to throw them the wounds. And he can also unbind 8 spells with +4!! Any tzeentch army is comparable to this macig brutal overwhelming. - Apart of these, the sumoning rule dont ssay anything about range or vision about the target, you can heal 5d3 (and potentially 6d3) with 4 heroes and nagash or arkhan, you can have 30 sepulcral guard healing 10 or 12 models for turn, and hitting twice with vanhel dance. - What can i do if i can't kill any of his heroes? play vs this rules is gg, even if you have firepower he can mantain safe his heroes cause they dont need vision or range to summon.... - Yes i'm going to wait until i se the book, but this rules make me think about the first really broken book of Age Of Sigmar.... and i really dont want another power scalation... - In straight up combat, unless you go Soulblight heavy you will likely won't win just by 'fair' combat melee, but the thing about Ironjawz and Khorne remains that this is also all they do. If you want to have a halt to that I'd strongly suggest going for the 40 undead blocks, have it buffed by a Necromancer and well basically strike back. In general there is enough power here to attrition that. - I wouldn't rely on Nagash as being an over reliant asset to 2K Matched play Death. Logical also because we see the same elsewhere with Archaon. - The way Ive read into it you will indeed be able to heal to your liking, no LoS required. - I suggest relying on flying units for killing Heroes. - What I believe is that GW did it justice this time, it isn't all powerful but has the tools to be amongst the top competitive meta. Like Nurgle really but much larger and deeper in tactial variant builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I think they were worried about fighting against legions of nagash with ironjaws or similar pure melee, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, Sception said: I think they were worried about fighting against legions of nagash with ironjaws or similar pure melee, not the other way around. Oh... huh, yeah I guess that's possible also.... In that case, hit harder, focus attacks to delete units completely (but this is a Khorne focus anyway) and outpace where possible. Mortal wounds so far arn't extremely common for Death yet so focussing there and continueing with high armour basically can lead to a stalemate. Thing is both Ironjawz and Khorne have their flyers also, so all should use them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I agree, for killy melee, just pile the damage into the big units. they're reliant on command buffs to function, so they mostly won't be immune to battleshock, and while they're high leadership, they also crumple to any serious damage. It's not hard for a dedicated melee offensive from khorne or ironjaws or the like to 28 wounds into a unit of skeleton warriors, enough to autokill the remaining 12 on battleshock regardless of the roll. Even easier to delete units of 20 grave guard outright. That said, these units, when offensively buffed, are glass cannons, which means it's easy to kill them, but they can put out a world of hurt as well. Take bigger units where possible, instead of multiple small units, so that you can get in more damage before the undead get to swing back at you. Grave guard in a grand host list can swing up to four times per activation, with decent stats, rend one, and a chance at extra damage, so it's important to delete them before they make those attacks wherever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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