Killax Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, Lightbox said: I doubt we'll have the knight of shrouds but the remaining two are probably the blood palanquin and as you suggested the named vamp on dragon Well, wouldn't it be silly if the Knight of Shrouds wouldn't be in this book? I mean the books are litterly so close together and even after Malign Portents I think the Knight of Shrouds should remain a Hero available to them. I'm quite certain that if Stormcast would have another book in sight theirs would be included also. Same for Grots and same for Darkoath/Slaves to Darkness. Would be cool to see another thing in there but I believe the Blood Palanquin to be the new name for the Soulblight Engine? The one with spirits and three beautiful female vampires? If the Graveyard markers functionally lead to 'deep striking undead' you should be solid. As long as this isn't a counterable summon like it is/used to be. Because to me that remains to best solution. To not have summoning directly tied to Magic and it seems GW design agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Killax said: Well, wouldn't it be silly if the Knight of Shrouds wouldn't be in this book? I mean the books are litterly so close together and even after Malign Portents I think the Knight of Shrouds should remain a Hero available to them. I'm quite certain that if Stormcast would have another book in sight theirs would be included also. Same for Grots and same for Darkoath/Slaves to Darkness. Would be cool to see another thing in there but I believe the Blood Palanquin to be the new name for the Soulblight Engine? The one with spirits and three beautiful female vampires? If the Graveyard markers functionally lead to 'deep striking undead' you should be solid. As long as this isn't a counterable summon like it is/used to be. Because to me that remains to best solution. To not have summoning directly tied to Magic and it seems GW design agrees. Coven throne doesn't have the banshees which is why people were thinking it might be a kitbash between the mortis and coven throne. Would be nice if so. And tbh I expect all the heralds to be in malign portents warscroll wise... but it might be in LoN. Guess we'll wait and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skool Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, stickybluetoffee said: Some sad news though. There are 32 Warscroll unit cards. Looking over the Death section in the app there are 30 units not including FEC. Add in Knight of Shrouds and presuming I’ve miscounted somehow then it looks like Legions of Nagash doesn’t cover FEC Where did the 32 warscroll cards come from? Where was this announced? Also there are 2 new soulblight units from kit bashes. I imagine this would make the 32. And the harbingers will all come with a Warscroll card. I counted current warscrolls myself and came up with 32 skipping FEC and sepulchral guard, but counting the beasts from the grave and the mournghul. Meaning we are 2 short with the 2 "new" models(assuming the KoS comes with a warscroll card. Meaning we might be losing models, or they are putting multiple warscrolls on the same card. Like putting the 2 wight kings on the same card or somthing. But still where did this 32 warscroll cards come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 53 minutes ago, Undeadly said: outside of the nerf to Bloodknights, Dire Hounds and Black Knights, Dire wolves got nerfed? when? and also, someone said deathless minions is a 5+, where do you get this information from? What leak did i miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickybluetoffee Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It’s in February White Dwarf. I count 30 warscroll ignoring Forgeworld units. Add in the Vampire on Zombie Dragon character and the Knight of Shrouds and you get 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, stickybluetoffee said: It’s in February White Dwarf. I count 30 warscroll ignoring Forgeworld units. Add in the Vampire on Zombie Dragon character and the Knight of Shrouds and you get 32. Yeah and minus FEC right? Lets see (GW webstore) 1. Bloodknights 2. Nagash 3. Neferata 4. Arkhan 5. Mannfred 6. Vamp Lord on Zombie Dragon 7. Coven Throne 8. Mortis Engine 9. Black Coach 10. Fell Bats 11. Vargeist 12. Graveguard 13. Zombies 14. Black Knights 15. Hex Wraiths 16. Vampire Lord/Vampire Lord on Nightmare 17. Corpse Cart 18. Spirit Hosts 19. Bat Swarm 20. Skeleton Warriors 21. Wight King on Steed 22. Necromancer 23. Wight King with Black Axe 24. Wight King with Tomb Blade 25. Tomb Banshee 26. Necromancer 27. Dire Wolf 28. Morghast Harbringers 29. Morghast Archai 30. Cairn Wraith So yeah, 30 and with the named Vampire Lord on Dragon thats a certain 31. So yeah 32 might be the Coven third variant or Knight of Shrouds. Either seem plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahn-ket Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The Wight King on steed and the Wight King with tomb blade are the same warscroll like Vampire lord/Vampire lord in nightmare so KoS and the new coven throne are 31 and 32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said: The Wight King on steed and the Wight King with tomb blade are the same warscroll like Vampire lord/Vampire lord in nightmare so KoS and the new coven throne are 31 and 32 Neat, yeah would make sence! I'm also not counting out the option to have named Vampire Lord on foot btw! GW has a ton of models for them afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Haha... really wish I had pulled the trigger and posted one of my posts yesterday. I was surmising in that post that maybe the allegiance abilities will have something similar to the old Von Carstein list in the Storm of Chaos. Where you got to place markers on the board and summoner units from them. What a coincidence huh? I think it's a super cool mechanic to have in the army. It seems like Games Workshop are more and more involving terrain (or tokens) in allegiance abilities. This allows some form of board control as well, as your opponent can't leave an objective unmanned in scenarios that let you leave objectives if you've got grave sites nearby. I would guess any Legions force that has a wizard therefore is going to leave at least some points available for summoning just so you have the option of a sneaky objective steal. Also not surprised FEC aren't in the books. I too remember them going back on that little piece of information. I think in some ways, its the right thing anyway. None of the 3 Mortarchs are a natural leader for the Flesh-Eaters in their delusions. Personally I'm hoping that in the next 2 years or so the book gets redone with a new Ushoran model. That being said, I think it's a bit of a shame because the Ghouls/Horrors/Flayers won't get the summonable keyword, so even if say the Grand Host of Nagash can take them (Likely all DEATH I would say can be in his legion), you won't be able to make use of Grave sites and characters to put wounds back into the units. Which is a shame, since I think the gravesite mechanic still works equally well for perhaps not summoning, but attracting the Mordants to battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undeadly Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Killax said: Yeah and minus FEC right? Lets see (GW webstore) 1. Bloodknights 2. Nagash 3. Neferata 4. Arkhan 5. Mannfred 6. Vamp Lord on Zombie Dragon 7. Coven Throne 8. Mortis Engine 9. Black Coach 10. Fell Bats 11. Vargeist 12. Graveguard 13. Zombies 14. Black Knights 15. Hex Wraiths 16. Vampire Lord/Vampire Lord on Nightmare 17. Corpse Cart 18. Spirit Hosts 19. Bat Swarm 20. Skeleton Warriors 21. Wight King on Steed 22. Necromancer 23. Wight King with Black Axe 24. Wight King with Tomb Blade 25. Tomb Banshee 26. Necromancer 27. Dire Wolf 28. Morghast Harbringers 29. Morghast Archai 30. Cairn Wraith So yeah, 30 and with the named Vampire Lord on Dragon thats a certain 31. So yeah 32 might be the Coven third variant or Knight of Shrouds. Either seem plausible. Friend, you counted Necromancer twice, and the Wight King On Steed shares a warscroll with the on-foot Wight King. So thats still missing two, adding in the Palaquin and the Named Vampire Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Missing one after the knight of shrouds, who is probably (but not necessarily) also in there. Any predictions? Vargheists with crypt horror arms? One of the old special characters going generic? batwing and ladyboot vamp lord models becoming two different units? Named mortis engine or corpse cart to add a little something to the deathmage keyword for the legion of sacrament? Hexwraith with black knight barding as a new mounted nighthaunt hero? one of the three cairn wraith face plates becoming a named wraith hero? This is one area where the new book is actually doing less than I expected, as I honestly thought they'd split more of our existing stuff up into multiple units to try and cover for the lack of new models, the way they did with Flesh Eaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undeadly Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sception said: Missing one after the knight of shrouds, who is probably (but not necessarily) also in there. Any predictions? Vargheists with crypt horror arms? One of the old special characters going generic? batwing and ladyboot vamp lord models becoming two different units? Named mortis engine or corpse cart to add a little something to the deathmage keyword for the legion of sacrament? Hexwraith with black knight barding as a new mounted nighthaunt hero? one of the three cairn wraith face plates becoming a named wraith hero? This is one area where the new book is actually doing less than I expected, as I honestly thought they'd split more of our existing stuff up into multiple units to try and cover for the lack of new models, the way they did with Flesh Eaters. I hope beyond hope that we get a Necromancer on Corpse Cart, if only to get some ablative wounds. I could see maaaybe something with Vargheists or something along those lines, but I think that since they just straight up made a Named Vampire Lord without a kit, anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Undeadly said: the nerf to Bloodknights, Dire Hounds and Black Knights Dire Wolves didn't regen before, and now they can. Black Knights are tougher to heal up now, but their attacks increased. Bloodknights did get a nerf based on the warscroll alone, I'll grant you that (assuming the leaked version is accurate). The problem is that we don't know if points costs were adjusted at all, so proclaiming it as a nerf or buff is not something we can accurately do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Also, it seems the allegiances can change stat lines in this book, as seen with grand host giving morghasts blanket +1 attack. Even if blood knights are just nerfed by default, there may be something out of blood, night, or soulblight that just arbitrarily bumps their stat line to make up for it. Black Knights are still in a bit of a meh state, as they were terrible before, and the changes so far seem relatively lateral, or at least not sufficiently positive that i think it makes a real difference for them. Maybe if they also got a point of rend on their lances.... jury's still far from out, but I'm not expecting a lot out of them. They were so very bad before that even more then doubling their offensive output is a barely noticeable improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undeadly Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 39 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: Dire Wolves didn't regen before, and now they can. Black Knights are tougher to heal up now, but their attacks increased. Bloodknights did get a nerf based on the warscroll alone, I'll grant you that (assuming the leaked version is accurate). The problem is that we don't know if points costs were adjusted at all, so proclaiming it as a nerf or buff is not something we can accurately do now. Yeah, I will admit my bad on the Dire Wolves, they actually got better in this regard. I don't think the extra attack really makes a difference, as they are already so pillow fisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Sception said: Missing one after the knight of shrouds, who is probably (but not necessarily) also in there. Any predictions? Vargheists with crypt horror arms? One of the old special characters going generic? batwing and ladyboot vamp lord models becoming two different units? Named mortis engine or corpse cart to add a little something to the deathmage keyword for the legion of sacrament? Hexwraith with black knight barding as a new mounted nighthaunt hero? one of the three cairn wraith face plates becoming a named wraith hero? This is one area where the new book is actually doing less than I expected, as I honestly thought they'd split more of our existing stuff up into multiple units to try and cover for the lack of new models, the way they did with Flesh Eaters. from the leaks you also have generic ZD and TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 whop whop, fun speculation time is over, oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undeadly Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Well darn. I didn't expect much, but from the fact that GW has been more open to converting heros from regular units, I would have loved to see more stuff. Even simple stuff, like VL on a Terrorgheist, or Necromancer on Coven Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envyus Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Undeadly said: Necromancer on Coven Throne. Aka a Mortis Engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 17 hours ago, Undeadly said: Yeah, I will admit my bad on the Dire Wolves, they actually got better in this regard. I don't think the extra attack really makes a difference, as they are already so pillow fisted. Black Knights currently do an average of 3.67 rend 0 wounds when charging. That makes their WDR (a measure of offensive efficiency that factors in rend) .031 which is pretty terrible. With the buffs to their warscroll (assuming the point cost is the same), their WDR is now .055. It's not awful but it's not great. It's basically in the same neighborhood as Liberators, Bloodreavers, and Ardboyz with big choppas/two choppas. None of those units are anything to write home about, but they are all decently usable and even see substantial competitive play with the right buffs/synergies. Black Knights are less defensively efficient than these other units but they are a LOT faster. I'd say the extra attack makes a big difference -- it takes a unit that was basically completely terrible and turns it into one that is good enough to see casual/peri-competitive play and has a chance at real competitive play if the right buffs/synergies exist. A 77% buff in offensive efficiency is damn substantial. Of course, I should again stress that this is assuming the leaked warscroll is correct and the points don't go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeled Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: Black Knights currently do an average of 3.67 rend 0 wounds when charging. That makes their WDS (a measure of offensive efficiency that factors in rend) .031 which is pretty terrible. With the buffs to their warscroll (assuming the point cost is the same), their WDS is now .055. It's not awful but it's not great. It's basically in the same neighborhood as Liberators, Bloodreavers, and Ardboyz with big choppas/two choppas. None of those units are anything to write home about, but they are all decently usable and even see substantial competitive play with the right buffs/synergies. Black Knights are less defensively efficient than these other units but they are a LOT faster. I'd say the extra attack makes a big difference -- it takes a unit that was basically completely terrible and turns it into one that is good enough to see casual/peri-competitive play and has a chance at real competitive play if the right buffs/synergies exist. A 77% buff in offensive efficiency is damn substantial. Of course, I should again stress that this is assuming the leaked warscroll is correct and the points don't go up. How is WDS calculated (and what does it stand for)? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Even with their upgrades they still look very poor next to Goregruntas imo, a similarly priced cavalry unit that is also situational battleline. They will need something else, or a points deduction before I use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, AverageBoss said: Even with their upgrades they still look very poor next to Goregruntas imo, a similarly priced cavalry unit that is also situational battleline. They will need something else, or a points deduction before I use them. I think a lot of stuff sadly look pretty poor in comparison to Gore-Gruntas. Especially when you just look at raw damage output efficiency. I mean, Demigryph Knights are 20 points more and I think I'd prefer just taking the Gore-Gruntas. Edit: Which isn't necessarily saying that cavalry still need a points decrease. Just saying Gore-Gruntas are extremely competitive at 140 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickybluetoffee Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 8 hours ago, Killax said: Neat, yeah would make sence! I'm also not counting out the option to have named Vampire Lord on foot btw! GW has a ton of models for them afterall. So the Necromancer is in that list twice. Down to 30. Add in Zombie Dragon and Terrorgheist and there’s your 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudonyme Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 hours ago, Killax said: Yeah and minus FEC right? Lets see (GW webstore) 1. Bloodknights 2. Nagash 3. Neferata 4. Arkhan 5. Mannfred 6. Vamp Lord on Zombie Dragon 7. Coven Throne 8. Mortis Engine 9. Black Coach 10. Fell Bats 11. Vargeist 12. Graveguard 13. Zombies 14. Black Knights 15. Hex Wraiths 16. Vampire Lord/Vampire Lord on Nightmare 17. Corpse Cart 18. Spirit Hosts 19. Bat Swarm 20. Skeleton Warriors 21. Wight King on Steed 22. Necromancer 23. Wight King with Black Axe 24. Wight King with Tomb Blade 25. Tomb Banshee 26. Necromancer 27. Dire Wolf 28. Morghast Harbringers 29. Morghast Archai 30. Cairn Wraith So yeah, 30 and with the named Vampire Lord on Dragon thats a certain 31. So yeah 32 might be the Coven third variant or Knight of Shrouds. Either seem plausible. Sepulchral guard is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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