edmek55555 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 So I am currently working in a rotbringers army. The battletome says you can take units from monsters of chaos as allies. However you can't take anything tzeench marked. Im looking to use a mutalith vortex beast which has recently gotten the tzeench keyword but is still in the monsters of chaos faction which nurgle can ally with. Would it be legal to take the mutalith in a nurgle army using ally points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoVonUtopia Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Yes, in the Generals Handbook 2017 monsters of chaos have a vortex beast and Disciples of Tzeench have a vortex beast of tzeench. To me that means that the monster of chaos version is the original without the tzeench keyword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 51 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said: Yes, in the Generals Handbook 2017 monsters of chaos have a vortex beast and Disciples of Tzeench have a vortex beast of tzeench. To me that means that the monster of chaos version is the original without the tzeench keyword. I wish there was a way to know for sure. I don't want to waste the money on a model I may not be able to use. The official gw warscroll builder only has 1 and its marked as tzeench but in the rules section of the model it does have 2 warscrolls, I just assumed the non tzeench one was outdated as it doesn't have the new background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Actually, just in general, I find army construction for matched play to be needlessly complex and confusing. It's really cool to be able to take stuff from different books, but keeping track of what things are regular parts of the army, which are allies, who benefits from what perks and items ... It gets tedious and leads to inadvertent illegal armies. It's probably my least enjoyed aspect of AoS. For a game that appears so simple, it really gets clunky in parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 37 minutes ago, Sleboda said: Actually, just in general, I find army construction for matched play to be needlessly complex and confusing. It's really cool to be able to take stuff from different books, but keeping track of what things are regular parts of the army, which are allies, who benefits from what perks and items ... It gets tedious and leads to inadvertent illegal armies. It's probably my least enjoyed aspect of AoS. For a game that appears so simple, it really gets clunky in parts. Very true. Army building has been a major pain. I've only ordered 3 models for AoS so far simply because it is so hard to figure out what works with what. However this is finally the last piece of info I need for now to get my nurgle army going. Right now Im running Lord of afflictions (general) Gutrot spume Pusgoyle blightlords x1 Putrid blightkings x 1 And I cant figure out what else until I figure out if I can use the vortex beast or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 During a discussion in the Maggotkin whatsapp group, it was confirmed by a reliable source (sorry can’t disclose source for privacy reason) that the Maggotkin are able to take a gaunt summoner (everchosen and tzeentch) as an ally. In turn this means that in instances where keywords contradict each other regarding allies, that the keyword allowing the ally takes precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 14 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: During a discussion in the Maggotkin whatsapp group, it was confirmed by a reliable source (sorry can’t disclose source for privacy reason) that the Maggotkin are able to take a gaunt summoner (everchosen and tzeentch) as an ally. In turn this means that in instances where keywords contradict each other regarding allies, that the keyword allowing the ally takes precedent. Thats some great info, thanks! The only thing is is the Mutalith doesnt seem to have the monsters of chaos keyword but is still in their army roster. Very confusing. It doesn't help that on the games workshop store you can only find the vortex beast by searching its name, it isnt under any faction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, edmek55555 said: Thats some great info, thanks! The only thing is is the Mutalith doesnt seem to have the monsters of chaos keyword but is still in their army roster. Very confusing. It doesn't help that on the games workshop store you can only find the vortex beast by searching its name, it isnt under any faction As far as I’m aware, if a unit doesn’t have the required keyword it wouldn’t be possible to take as an ally. Sorry mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 17 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: As far as I’m aware, if a unit doesn’t have the required keyword it wouldn’t be possible to take as an ally. Sorry mate. No problem. I'll figure something out. If I took a chaos lord on manticore with the mark of nurgle would that require using ally points? I am playing a 1000 point game so I can't break 200 ally points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, edmek55555 said: No problem. I'll figure something out. If I took a chaos lord on manticore with the mark of nurgle would that require using ally points? I am playing a 1000 point game so I can't break 200 ally points No it’d be fine in a maggotkin army without being an ally. Could only take traits n artefacts from the mortals list though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 29 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: No it’d be fine in a maggotkin army without being an ally. Could only take traits n artefacts from the mortals list though. Gotcha. Thanks a ton. The Aos army building rules just confuse me beyond belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 hours ago, edmek55555 said: Gotcha. Thanks a ton. The Aos army building rules just confuse me beyond belief Anytime mate. Don’t worry, it gets us all the same haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoVonUtopia Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I wish Maggotkin of Nurgle and Blades of Khorne were just called Nurgle allegiance and khorne allegiance so it would be a bit more obvious that you can add appropriatly marked Slaves to Darkness units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 On 1/29/2018 at 5:34 PM, edmek55555 said: Gotcha. Thanks a ton. The Aos army building rules just confuse me beyond belief Yeah. that aspect of the game spiraled out of control amazingly quickly considering that they just did a complete system reboot/change. You would think it would not be this crazy this soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Sleboda said: Yeah. that aspect of the game spiraled out of control amazingly quickly considering that they just did a complete system reboot/change. You would think it would not be this crazy this soon. You're not kidding. It is especially crazy for certain factions that are split into sub factions which most of chaos and destruction are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 @edmek55555 just don’t over think it - if it has a nurgle keyword or can be marked with nurgle it can be taken as part of a nurgle army. The artefacts/traits/lore that can be taken is also dictated by keywords. For example: Due to keywords the lord of affliction can take from both the rotbringer and daemon list. Where as the lord of blights can take from the rotbringer and mortal list. A hero from slaves to darkness however would only be able to take from the mortals list due to only having the mortal keyword. This is the same with sorcerers also - a rotbringer Sorcerer can choose from the mortal and rotbringer lore. Where as a chaos sorcerer lord marked with nurgle would only be able to choose from the mortal lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 10 hours ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: @edmek55555 just don’t over think it - if it has a nurgle keyword or can be marked with nurgle it can be taken as part of a nurgle army. The artefacts/traits/lore that can be taken is also dictated by keywords. For example: Due to keywords the lord of affliction can take from both the rotbringer and daemon list. Where as the lord of blights can take from the rotbringer and mortal list. A hero from slaves to darkness however would only be able to take from the mortals list due to only having the mortal keyword. This is the same with sorcerers also - a rotbringer Sorcerer can choose from the mortal and rotbringer lore. Where as a chaos sorcerer lord marked with nurgle would only be able to choose from the mortal lore. That makes sense. The one thing that still crosses me up is the mutalith vortex beast. Nurgle can take monsters of chaos as allys, but not tzeentch. Mutalith is both but looks to have lost its monsters keyword though it is still in the monsters of chaos warscrolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 38 minutes ago, edmek55555 said: That makes sense. The one thing that still crosses me up is the mutalith vortex beast. Nurgle can take monsters of chaos as allys, but not tzeentch. Mutalith is both but looks to have lost its monsters keyword though it is still in the monsters of chaos warscrolls According to the app it has two warscrolls, one of which includes the monsters of chaos keyword. I’m not sure if that is intentional or not tbh sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmek55555 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said: According to the app it has two warscrolls, one of which includes the monsters of chaos keyword. I’m not sure if that is intentional or not tbh sorry. Thats my exact issue haha. I don't know if that one is just outdated or was intentionally left in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Right, so GW is falling afoul of updating warscrolls but trying not to ****** people off when they take something away. So, Vortex Beast, 2 versions, one from Monster of Chaos compendium, has MoC keyword and no Tzeentch. Second version has no MoC keyword but has Tzeentch Either is valid to take in an army, but how you take it depends on what army you take it from. If there's updated abilities on one varient scroll, tough, use the version with the right keyword Only things that change univerasally are FAQ changes to abilities and points values Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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