New Aelves

[Rhivan]

3 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Yeah... This isn't persian in the slightest. It's a mix of European and Chinese. The Plate Armor is in a German Gothic design of the 15th century, the mail is also so but combined with a long skirt of asian inspiration. Crossguard is European obviously. The Conical helm seems to be a combination of later crusade esque helmets and an Italian barbute. (Which is based off Greco-Roman helmets which mixes well with the future theme that GW seems to want to theme with Elves) 

[DantePQ]

Yep AoS isn't WFB that's why Malerion is somehow friends/cool with Tyrion and Teclis as they have their own agenda to find their children. And Malerion was cool with Teclis even back in ET, maybe the don't like each other but they acknowledged Malerion as their King so there is now hate and Malerion still thinks of all the Elves as his children. Sure they may not like each (Shadow and Light Elves) but there is no hate as they have their own enemy now in Slaasnesh and Chaos (which is very Eldar-alike)

[Cèsar de Quart]

It does seem like GW is getting again in the Grand Trap of 40k. How to justify two "Imperium" or in this case "Order" armies fighting each other.

Sure, you can justify my Imperial Guard against yours as a rebellion or some sort of thing, but it always comes down to one of us being "bad". It's always very simplistic. Not very WW1, which is from where the IG gets most of its inspiration from.

I can imagine pre-Sigmar realms at war with each other, but Free Cities born of Sigmar and Alarielle... not so much. GW is all about sprawling wars between concepts and not at all in the actual human conflict.

So I'm all for Morathi being Order but trying to ****** Sigmar up. Order has many faces. 

GW has given us ample reason to believe that two Chaos armies can, and will, fight each other for very valid reasons within universe. Destruction, sure. Death, of course. But Order is stuck with the goody-two-shoes attitude of a playground monitor, watching over the kids, making sure they play nice and don't do the wrong thing.

I'd like to see Sigmar and other chiefs of Order disagree on core elements of how to rule the Realms, and these disagreements becoming key reasons for war between cities and realms back on the ground. 

I have an Empire army, I got tired of looking for "the Counts have quarrels" reasons for my Empire-collecting and generalling friends. We even went with the Time of the Three Emperors for a while, made it easier to play satisfying campaigns without the END OF THE WORLD looming over us, making our petty quarrels seem absolutely frivolous and trivial.

[DantePQ]

Order isn't Empire , Order is more like alliance against Chaos (somehow like Empire is allies with Eldar in Wh40k against bigger threat like Tyranids, Necrons or Chaos but Eldar will fight with Empire when it suits their agenda) even more so in AoS Sylvaneth is order but Alarielle doesn't care much about other Order factions, Malerion could be Order but Order means Order he has his kindgdom and want his children to live in peace. 

[Killax]

6 minutes ago, Rhivan said:

Yeah... This isn't persian in the slightest. It's a mix of European and Chinese. The Plate Armor is in a German Gothic design of the 15th century, the mail is also so but combined with a long skirt of asian inspiration. Crossguard is European obviously. The Conical helm seems to be a combination of later crusade esque helmets and an Italian barbute. (Which is based off Greco-Roman helmets which mixes well with the future theme that GW seems to want to theme with Elves) 

I really see it as something in their complete own style. As before inspiration can really be drawn from anywhere, which isn't to say that the models actually represent that completely. I agree with you that this is a mix of all things.

However painting things as plate armour is really what we see here. It could have been painted as leather, bamboo etc. I really feel that stating it's Eastern European designed is the same as saying that Slaughterpriests look like Gladiators.... I wouldn't completely dissagree but think AoS does something very new. It's really GW IP that isn't a carbon copy of something else... Which is likely why it's range remained...

1 minute ago, DantePQ said:

Yep AoS isn't WFB that's why Malerion is somehow friends/cool with Tyrion and Teclis as they have their own agenda to find their children. And Malerion was cool with Teclis even back in ET, maybe the don't like each other but they acknowledged Malerion as their King so there is now hate and Malerion still thinks of all the Elves as his children. Sure they may not like each (Shadow and Light Elves) but there is no hate as they have their own enemy now in Slaasnesh and Chaos (which is very Eldar-alike)

Don't think it's that odd even! I mean litterly thousands of years have passed. WFB's Old World is no more and Malekith even is reborn as a completely new entity. Holding a grudge is one thing but being dead and reborn to start anew with hate for each other would actually be odd.

As before it's clear to me that Malerion and Morathi don't trust each other but it isn't like before. Likewise again, every Order Allegiance has it's own agenda. The big co-op was there to drive out Chaos from their Realms, which they succesfully did. 

One thing we can conclude is that Grand Allegiances work because they have have more distrist to other GA's than within their own. But these Allegiances would logically also only appear if there is a real need for it. This is actually a good reflection of real live politicial allegiances too  

[Killax]

9 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Order isn't Empire , Order is more like alliance against Chaos (somehow like Empire is allies with Eldar in Wh40k against bigger threat like Tyranids, Necrons or Chaos but Eldar will fight with Empire when it suits their agenda) even more so in AoS Sylvaneth is order but Alarielle doesn't care much about other Order factions, Malerion could be Order but Order means Order he has his kindgdom and want his children to live in peace. 

To put it even better, even Free Guilds arn't Empire. 

I know these ranges share the same models to some extend but so far there is no confirmation that Free Guilds are solely remnants of WFB's Empire either  

13 minutes ago, Cèsar de Quart said:

But Order is stuck with the goody-two-shoes attitude of a playground monitor, watching over the kids, making sure they play nice and don't do the wrong thing.

I'd like to see Sigmar and other chiefs of Order disagree on core elements of how to rule the Realms, and these disagreements becoming key reasons for war between cities and realms back on the ground. 

I have an Empire army, I got tired of looking for "the Counts have quarrels" reasons for my Empire-collecting and generalling friends. We even went with the Time of the Three Emperors for a while, made it easier to play satisfying campaigns without the END OF THE WORLD looming over us, making our petty quarrels seem absolutely frivolous and trivial.

Highlighted in green what is one of the most common misconceptions about Age of Sigmar and Order in general.

Because it's not Order that operates this way. Sigmar's initial Stormcast initiative matches this somewhat but stating it applies to Order is completely false. As before, Seraphon, Fyreslayers and Sylvaneth have completely other goals... Their narrative is also full of that...

There is quite some dissagreement. This too can be found in the narrative.

WFB's Empire didn't survive into AoS. Small pockets of humans did, which are currently represented with lines that used to belong to Empire's line.

[Yeled]

So as this looks to be a Daughters of Khaine update rather than truly new aelves (and to be clear I do think we'll see a good number of new models, but it will build off the existing DoK line), do we think that it will be Malerion and his return that ushers in a truly new faction of Shadow Aelves? After all, he will be returning with his "children" who were swallowed/tormented by Slaanesh. Or do people figure that Malerion will return to lead a newly reinvisioned and expansion of the Darkling Covens or other dark elf faction?

[Killax]

@Yeled my thake on it is Malerion and Morathi in one book combining the Daughters of Khaine and Scourge Privateer ranges with Order Serpentis incorporated into Scoure Privateers.

It could be really neat to see Daughters of Khaine fleshed out more and more but I doubt GW is able to do that in such a short span of time. In addition "Dark Elves with witches, monsters and pirates" remains a neat blend.

[Cèsar de Quart]

42 minutes ago, Killax said:

I really see it as something in their complete own style. As before inspiration can really be drawn from anywhere, which isn't to say that the models actually represent that completely. I agree with you that this is a mix of all things.

However painting things as plate armour is really what we see here. It could have been painted as leather, bamboo etc. I really feel that stating it's Eastern European designed is the same as saying that Slaughterpriests look like Gladiators.... I wouldn't completely dissagree but think AoS does something very new. It's really GW IP that isn't a carbon copy of something else... Which is likely why it's range remained...

Don't think it's that odd even! I mean litterly thousands of years have passed. WFB's Old World is no more and Malekith even is reborn as a completely new entity. Holding a grudge is one thing but being dead and reborn to start anew with hate for each other would actually be odd.

As before it's clear to me that Malerion and Morathi don't trust each other but it isn't like before. Likewise again, every Order Allegiance has it's own agenda. The big co-op was there to drive out Chaos from their Realms, which they succesfully did. 

One thing we can conclude is that Grand Allegiances work because they have have more distrist to other GA's than within their own. But these Allegiances would logically also only appear if there is a real need for it. This is actually a good reflection of real live politicial allegiances too  

 

37 minutes ago, Killax said:

To put it even better, even Free Guilds arn't Empire. 

I know these ranges share the same models to some extend but so far there is no confirmation that Free Guilds are solely remnants of WFB's Empire either  

Highlighted in green what is one of the most common misconceptions about Age of Sigmar and Order in general.

Because it's not Order that operates this way. Sigmar's initial Stormcast initiative matches this somewhat but stating it applies to Order is completely false. As before, Seraphon, Fyreslayers and Sylvaneth have completely other goals... Their narrative is also full of that...

There is quite some dissagreement. This too can be found in the narrative.

WFB's Empire didn't survive into AoS. Small pockets of humans did, which are currently represented with lines that used to belong to Empire's line.

I know that, but my comment still stands.

The goal of Order is to fight Chaos, and fighting Chaos demands absolute attention, since we're always close to Chaos being victorious almost without trying.  Therefore, quarrels or outright wars between Free Peoples or Order armies feels frivolous. It feels wrong. If you want to do it, you must justify it with "my band is a rogue herd of dryads out for revenge against the Greywater Sarumans" or "my dudes are kinda crazy" or "my dudes were betrayed and are out on a quest", which amounts to the same: rogue armies. Without the sanction or accord of their leader, be it Sigmar, Alarielle, Teclis or whoever else. Which restricts your ability to create a satisfying backstory for your dudes.

Some factions theoretically (although very shoehorned) into Order can have credible inner conflict. Kharadron vessels in all-out wars for resources, Fireslayers fighting other lodges, or other factions... but having Sigmar or Alarielle outright go to war with each other is ludicrous (at this point of the narrative).

Maybe I'm wrong. Give me examples of believable, acceptable in-Order wars, and I'll rest my case.

PS: Also, Fireslayers don't feel like they should belong to Order. They don't fight for anything remotely resembling Order...

[Menkeroth]

Combining OS, DoK, SP and any other faction does not make much sense or make them any more coherent, so it's unlikely, and I hope GW expands most factions independently. All in all, now it's looking more of an update and this is fine. For a start.

[Killax]

13 minutes ago, Cèsar de Quart said:

I know that, but my comment still stands.

The goal of Order is to fight Chaos, and fighting Chaos demands absolute attention, since we're always close to Chaos being victorious almost without trying.  Therefore, quarrels or outright wars between Free Peoples or Order armies feels frivolous. It feels wrong. If you want to do it, you must justify it with "my band is a rogue herd of dryads out for revenge against the Greywater Sarumans" or "my dudes are kinda crazy" or "my dudes were betrayed and are out on a quest", which amounts to the same: rogue armies. Without the sanction or accord of their leader, be it Sigmar, Alarielle, Teclis or whoever else. Which restricts your ability to create a satisfying backstory for your dudes.

Some factions theoretically (although very shoehorned) into Order can have credible inner conflict. Kharadron vessels in all-out wars for resources, Fireslayers fighting other lodges, or other factions... but having Sigmar or Alarielle outright go to war with each other is ludicrous (at this point of the narrative).

Maybe I'm wrong. Give me examples of believable, acceptable in-Order wars, and I'll rest my case.

PS: Also, Fireslayers don't feel like they should belong to Order. They don't fight for anything remotely resembling Order...

As above I believe your mixing two sets of narrative setting, maby even three. Assumming WFB, 40K and AoS cross each other in narrative design is simply again incorrect.

In Age of Sigmar it isn't Chaos being close to victory. If anything it's Order recouping from the events that occured because of the End Times. Better put, unlike WFB or 40K, in AoS Chaos isn't always close to being victorious. It's still very much in the progress of trying to be succesful, while failing at it in quite some cases too. Best example, the captured Slaanesh. Did not ever occur in WFB and in 40k there is no clear lore of this happenning, what we have there is the after effect of Slaanesh becomming a Chaos God.

Realistically speaking order fighting amongst each other doesn't feel wrong to me. Nor does it feel wrong to have Nagash not be able to obtain full control of the Flesh-Eater Courts or have Ogres fighting Orruks in Destruction. In addition we have Fyreslayers fighting anybody if they are told there is Ur-Gold to be obtained. The fact that Seraphon can't ally with most Order armies also speaks about how they in reality don't really care for Aelfs or Humanity whatsoever. 

Sigmar is the only Order god who was capable to unite other gods, also outside of the "Order" faction to battle Chaos and that unity does not excist anymore. Order is absolutely not Imperium or vice versa. There is no clear hate against the Xenos (non-human) or Daemon. 

If you start your vision with "believable stories" for a game that quite clearly has mentioned over and over again that it's fantasy styled turned up to eleven I can only point towards the current narrative there is to inform you. For every Allegiance within a Grand Allegiance one could say it doesn't fit. This is why Grand Allegiances are and have become quite a rarity altogether... So far all factions include aspects of Order, Death, Chaos and Destruction. This is why they are an Allegiance themselves too... 

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Interesting, thanks for the insight.

[Richelieu]

21 minutes ago, Cèsar de Quart said:

 

I know that, but my comment still stands.

The goal of Order is to fight Chaos, and fighting Chaos demands absolute attention, since we're always close to Chaos being victorious almost without trying.  Therefore, quarrels or outright wars between Free Peoples or Order armies feels frivolous. It feels wrong. If you want to do it, you must justify it with "my band is a rogue herd of dryads out for revenge against the Greywater Sarumans" or "my dudes are kinda crazy" or "my dudes were betrayed and are out on a quest", which amounts to the same: rogue armies. Without the sanction or accord of their leader, be it Sigmar, Alarielle, Teclis or whoever else. Which restricts your ability to create a satisfying backstory for your dudes.

Some factions theoretically (although very shoehorned) into Order can have credible inner conflict. Kharadron vessels in all-out wars for resources, Fireslayers fighting other lodges, or other factions... but having Sigmar or Alarielle outright go to war with each other is ludicrous (at this point of the narrative).

Maybe I'm wrong. Give me examples of believable, acceptable in-Order wars, and I'll rest my case.

PS: Also, Fireslayers don't feel like they should belong to Order. They don't fight for anything remotely resembling Order...

Also, remember that there can be no chaos without order infighting.  It is the very nature of the order armies; the greed of Duardin, the desire for power of men, the xenophobia of elves that spawns chaos.  If you deny Order the ability to act as the imperfect humans they are, then you deny that chaos can ever be born.

 

[Killax]

14 minutes ago, Cèsar de Quart said:

Interesting, thanks for the insight.

To shine a small light on the biggest differences:

WFB; Sigmar freed humanity from the eternal struggle against Orks at that time, also made sure Chaos backed up. However WFB's world and winds of Magic came from the same source as Chaos Daemons came from and because of this it indeed was ultimately doomed to be overrun with Chaos because it could be so influenced etc.

40k; much more Imperium focused really started out with the idea that Chaos devided the Imperium (loyalist/traitor) and before that discovered humanity to wage war against all kinds of xenos. If anything 40k is the most extremist univese GW has ever created as even the smallest of human abnormality is likely to be killed.

AoS; new content, new chances, is the aftermath of End Times but really took the Magical lores from WFB and used them to create their own universes. Unlike WFB these realms now do not need Chaos to function and in reality arn't made of Chaos essence either. Practically all realms are under attack from Chaos forces but the unity of gods (Order, Destruction and Death) really did a great job in practically clearing a lot of Chaos taint in said realm. So far, unlike with 40K the taint of Chaos doesn't remain as it does when Chaos invades a planet like they do in 40K.

Where I feel that in 40k there is a very clear diversification between good, evil and xenos I can't say the same applies for AoS. By large because gods of specific realms are empowered by the essence of that realm. Where 40k has the Warp that contains Chaos in AoS Chaos is it's own realm and while it tries to spread out to other realms hasn't completely been succesful in doing so. At this moment and time at least Chaos is not in control of the realms they once tyrannized.

If the death clock (that goes to 12) is on 8 for 40K and went to 12 for WFB I'd say in AoS it's more around 4. Chaos is about as big of a player as Destruction and Death are. There is a clear struggle for certain areas but as can be seen and is confirmed, Morathi and Malerion have been able to fend of all Chaos attacks into Ulgu and even now is probably set out to conquer more. 

[HorticulusTGA]

35 minutes ago, Cèsar de Quart said:

PS: Also, Fireslayers don't feel like they should belong to Order. They don't fight for anything remotely resembling Order...

That's wrong.

They are still "normal" people, with normal lives (they live in stability, with marriages, child, etc.) - their values are still justice, honor, civilization, friendship with humans, and they still despise Chaos and Greenskinz.

And they usually fight for those values, or to recreate their lost god (through Ur-gold), who was a part of the Order pantheon and a friend of Sigmar.

On this aspect, they are not greedy per se, but because it's a sacred quest. 

Then they also are a warrior race (mainly because Grimnir destruction and isolation in the Age of Chaos), and they sometimes go mad (as all Order race can go corrupt), so they may see Ur-gold as more valuable than the rest - but that's not always the case.

(For exemple, reading Path to glory, it seems the Lofnir lodge was more "tricked" into helping Chaos destroying the Lantic empire than doing that because they are evil - they for example helped the humans before the Chaos invasion).

[Sleboda]

43 minutes ago, Cèsar de Quart said:

Therefore, quarrels or outright wars between Free Peoples or Order armies feels frivolous. It feels wrong. If you want to do it, you must justify it

Why justify anything?  Have battles and let that new fun in and of itself. 

[S133arcanite]

In the vase picture it shows the witches fighting deamonettes/seekers

Unlikely morathi will be chaos

[generalchaos34]

I think we are looking at this all wrong. 

Dark Aelves, and by extension Shadow Aelves (which I assume are the same thing, there was a story in the Fyreslayer book about them working for the Kings of Shadow in Ulgu) are Order not because of their race, nor their alliance, nor their opposition to chaos, but because they themselves are "orderly" in how they are organized. 

By this I mean that all order armies are borne of civilization. Each army is governed by rules and by societies that have rules, a.k.a Civilization. Dark Aelves for what we know are a fairly regimented society that has all the hallmarks of the old Dark Elves, and are under the boot heels of dictators and love slavery.  Whatever inner strife they have is all cloak and dagger and political maneuvering, not unrestrained slaughter. 

 Fyreslayers are also order because they have a regimented society and they operate under very strict rules and guidelines. They are mercenaries but when it comes down to it Chaos, Death, and Destruction aren't exactly the types who "pay" for their services, earning the enmity of the lodges (plus how are the Fyreslayers to know if Barbarian tribe A is chaos and tribe B isn't when they are approached for services?)

The other factions do not represent this. Destruction is just that, might makes right, take what you want and have a good time doing it, also smash stuff.  Chaos is also that, there is no rules, might also makes right, but instead of taking what you want you kill and maim to gain the dark gods favors, vying for power and welcoming corruption. Death is precisely that, you have to be dead, then raised, which makes you a servant of Nagash (FEC are a weird exception to this, but they are kind of undead anyways). 

I actually enjoy the diversity of the Order faction because you have armies that are out for themselves, like the Kharadon and Dark Aelves, the hopelessly heroic Stormcast, the strange and distant Seraphon, and the just trying to live their lives in peace Freeguild and Sylvaneth. The other factions are pretty straight forward in their representation and I think that order is just as likely if not MORE likely to go to war over limited resources than some of the other factions. Self preservation will win out in order. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

I really don't have a problem with the dark elves being in Order - they are all about power and control and you can't achieve that if their is no ordered society on which to exert that power. A peaceful, docile society is far easier to control and exploit than a chaotic, rebellious one. It makes perfect sense to me.  

__

A big chunk of the Dark elf range appears to have been sculpted in the knowledge that the game was moving to round bases and loose formations - I pity anyone who was trying to form ranks of Corsairs or Sisters of Slaughter on 20mm squares... 

To me these are very much AoS models as opposed to WFB models so it makes sense for GW to bring them fully on board with a full faction release. I'm a little more nervous about the eventual demise of my much loved Darkling Covens units though!

 

[Carnelian]

My own take is that factions fall into Order if they worship Gods who are basically a force for 'good' and that this is the main differential factor- not whether the factions are organised or civilized (because Death and Chaos factions can certainly share these traits - e.g. the Order of the Fly or the death-worshipping humans in The Undying Legion)

[NurglesFirstChosen]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

What are you talking about?

 

The above basically comes from the only narrative we have on the Shadow realms in regard to Malerion and Morathi.

AoS isn't WFB... Source: WD 76 2015.

--

Otherwise likely related to the video:

Thanks for enlightening me, it appears that I need to catch up on the background fluff of aos  

[WoollyMammoth]

@Burf @someone2040
Okay I'm convinced that there will be new models. there is pics of the harpy and spearmen, as well as lack of a mortathi model.

Rumor Engine



The  small hands clearly resemble witch elf hands. with the bracelets its almost a dead giveaway. 1&3 could be related to some kind of new monsters, but it could be anything. 2 gives me some free people vibes. 5 feels like a dark-elfy sort of blade. The dragon thing seems like a dark elf kind of thing.

Nurgle had 3 rumor engines in Aug-Sep, putting their release about 5 months later. Other than this last pic with the dragon thing, a lot of these rumors are brand new. Not really a reliable indicator, but just making the point that it could be several months away. Plague Marines were teased long before their release.

Daughters of Khaine
Daughters of Khaine doesn't mean anything, its just a grouping they gave to current models. It could end up a sub-grouping within the new army, or it could simply go away. I think its very unlikely that the new army will be exclusively female. Doomfire Warlocks are already males listed as 'Daughters of Khaine'. The Tenebrael Shard is very obviously a male witch elf, though he could just be a fun hero they made which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the new release. Same thing goes for the Mistweaver, they could have simply been two cool rejects from the army theme they wanted to put to use somewhere else. The Mistweaver is extremely similar in design to the witch elves, so I don't know how you could argue she belongs anywhere else. 

also if you look at these, they look like males:

Despite wearing some kind of dress, they are very flat chested - you can see a noticeable difference compared to the female elf in the bottom right.

Khaine & Slaanesh
The symbol of Khaine is unusual given they killed him in the end times. Morathi mentions that her god is dead. This spring starts the 4th year of chaos - which should be the year of Slaanesh. I was really expecting these dark elves to be part of a Slaanesh cult instead. Even so - its an important note that they are fighting Slaanesh in this art. Perhaps its just what goes on in the realm of shadow, or maybe its the start of something big. Perhaps this is the first step in a narrative which ends in a new faction...

1. Morathi leads the daughters of Khaine to the realm of shadow
2. Morathi finds Slaanesh, and they clash.
3. Something happens where Morathi starts working with Slaanesh instead.

Also notice that, while there do seem to be harpies, they don't seem to be doing so well. They seem to be writing in agony, and there is only two left? Maybe they are dying out?


Perhaps this is just the first steps we will watch as the elves get absorbed into a new cult of Slaanesh.

Greek Theme
its very unlikely that the Greek theme will play a major part. GW is really trying to reinvent their own IPs. For example, TK was discontinued, likely for the reason doesn't have any rights to Egyptian lore. To suddenly take up Greek lore on a new army would be unusual since it would be impossible to protect the IP. I think this army will have its own unique feel with several themes tied together. I would be really surprised if we the releases follow any kind of consistent Greek theme. More than likely its just a fun art style adopted for promotional purposes. 

Darkling Covens
One important note is that the Darkling Covens just received their own allegiance. It would be odd if that was deleted and absorbed into a different army. Right now the GH allegiances kind of feel like a consolation prize for certain armies. The new Death book for example is not supposed to include FEC. (They noted that Soulblight is included, my theory is that its a copy of the GH with a new spell lore ). Nurgle was not included, neither was Deathrattle or Daughters of Khaine. I think it may be possible that the sorceress + dragon sorceress become part of this army, but the Darkling allegiance makes me wonder if those two core kits don't follow the new art theme of this army and will be left out of the new stuff.

Model Sizes
'Aelves' are very small right now. Elves in lore are typically tall. The average size of models are getting much larger. Even the Priest from silver tower is noticeably larger than any other free people model. I was kind of expecting all the elf stuff to be trashed in favor of new, larger models. I find this release very interesting that they are trying to fit these little elf women into the current XXL range. If you consider this, the new releases are likely to be some kind of mounted Aelves, monsters, etc to continue the theme of large, highly detailed models, with witch elves/sisters of slaughter being the only 'small model horde'. Any new infantry will likely have large weapons and accessories where they look appropriate but take up a larger footprint to fit on 32mm in packs of 5 like Fyreslayers and Tree Revenants. 

Order Grand Alliance
Order is simply armies which operate in a sane manner, unlike chaos, destruction and death. These 4 categories are rapidly showing their age and I expect this system will be replaced at some point. The problem is that people are buying into it and making allies and mixed armies, so its helping to sell models. The grand alliance system is caught in this conundrum. For this reason things currently in Order they will likely remain in order (unless they start worshiping a  new god..) 

[Kyriakin]

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

A big chunk of the Dark elf range appears to have been sculpted in the knowledge that the game was moving to round bases and loose formations - I pity anyone who was trying to form ranks of Corsairs or Sisters of Slaughter on 20mm squares... 

To me these are very much AoS models as opposed to WFB models so it makes sense for GW to bring them fully on board with a full faction release. I'm a little more nervous about the eventual demise of my much loved Darkling Covens units though!

I actually love the way the uniform and upright Darkling Covens look on rounds. They almost look like ornate chess pieces, or something.

In fact, I have even gone so far as to reject the Sorceress on Foot miniature, and bought Lhamaean in her place to maintain that kind of upright and disciplined robed look. 

[Killax]

1 hour ago, generalchaos34 said:

I think we are looking at this all wrong. 

Dark Aelves, and by extension Shadow Aelves (which I assume are the same thing, there was a story in the Fyreslayer book about them working for the Kings of Shadow in Ulgu) are Order not because of their race, nor their alliance, nor their opposition to chaos, but because they themselves are "orderly" in how they are organized. 

By this I mean that all order armies are borne of civilization. Each army is governed by rules and by societies that have rules, a.k.a Civilization. Dark Aelves for what we know are a fairly regimented society that has all the hallmarks of the old Dark Elves, and are under the boot heels of dictators and love slavery.  Whatever inner strife they have is all cloak and dagger and political maneuvering, not unrestrained slaughter. 

 Fyreslayers are also order because they have a regimented society and they operate under very strict rules and guidelines. They are mercenaries but when it comes down to it Chaos, Death, and Destruction aren't exactly the types who "pay" for their services, earning the enmity of the lodges (plus how are the Fyreslayers to know if Barbarian tribe A is chaos and tribe B isn't when they are approached for services?)

The other factions do not represent this. Destruction is just that, might makes right, take what you want and have a good time doing it, also smash stuff.  Chaos is also that, there is no rules, might also makes right, but instead of taking what you want you kill and maim to gain the dark gods favors, vying for power and welcoming corruption. Death is precisely that, you have to be dead, then raised, which makes you a servant of Nagash (FEC are a weird exception to this, but they are kind of undead anyways). 

I actually enjoy the diversity of the Order faction because you have armies that are out for themselves, like the Kharadon and Dark Aelves, the hopelessly heroic Stormcast, the strange and distant Seraphon, and the just trying to live their lives in peace Freeguild and Sylvaneth. The other factions are pretty straight forward in their representation and I think that order is just as likely if not MORE likely to go to war over limited resources than some of the other factions. Self preservation will win out in order. 

This is an interesting thesis but it also highlights that so far many don't seem so heavily interested in the lore that is there for Age of Sigmar. With all respect to you. 

The thing is, every realm has it's civilisations. Regardless of which Allegiance they belong to. In certain cases, as is highlighted with Malign Portents sometimes these arn't tied to Grand Allegiances either. So regardless if te civilistion is supressed or attacked by Chaos or Death forces, it isn't a society or rules and guidelines which makes something part of the Order Allegiance.

In reality all that there is to it right now is the allegiance there is to Sigmar. Those who have direct problems with him have become their 'other' Grand Allegiances. Sometimes even unwillingly due to a greater patheon waging war against him or betraying him. The latter is the case for Gork, Mork and Nagash for example, next to the Chaos gods. All others that havn't directly opposed the system created by Sigmar simply said are part of the Order Allegiance. 

So no, Destruction is more as just wanting to destroy things. Death is not completely made up of (un)death and while Chaos is chaotical it's just a name as the many Tallymen and Tallybands are the order of Nurgle. Better put, there are rules and civilizations everywhere not just Order. 

GA Order is on good footing with Sigmar and that's all there is to that grand allegiance. Simple but a fact.
Edit: Also what's good or evil completely depends on the standpoint of GA and Allegiance. As before, no, Order isn't full of good guys. Seraphon and Sylvaneth don't give two cents about typical Free people like Stormcast do. 

 

[Tailessine]

The main issue i seeis that this release will now make order even more bloated- this will be what, 8 battletomes to Deaths eventual 2 and destructions 3?