Jump to content

Gotrek in AoS


Recommended Posts

Poor Felix, he's really dead.

One of the things I liked about the G&F books is how they expanded the lore in a very specific manner: through the eyes of a middle-class highly educated young man, like mostly all of us, really. He know about Tarradasch's poetry and Detlef Sierck, and Velardo's paintings, and Breughel and Leonardo... I remember it was a fun moment when Max met Felix and he said "Are you the Felix Jaeger who wrote those poems in such-and-such almanaque?", as if it was the duty of learned men in Altdorf to read that almanaque, and Felix happened to publish there once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Replies 117
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

Lol 56 euros? I'll wait to hear a bit more about his new story line. I'm a bit skeptical but I love Gotrek so who knows. They could end up producing something great. It seems that GW has taken into account the nostalgia and endearment lots of people have for the old world. They don't seem as dedicated in their quest to erase everything with multicolor swirls of endless armies on endless fields of floating bones of silver. MP has brought back the darker overtones which in my opinion made the game a tad more mature and interesting. So I have hope for our friend Gotrek, hopefully he arrives at the right time in the fluff mindsets of GW's writers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Mordeus said:

MP has brought back the darker overtones which in my opinion made the game a tad more mature and interesting.

Both things are not connected to each other by any means, and AoS was dark since the beginning - more so than the Old World, although less than 40k since the first editions and Realm of Chaos. But the problem is that Gotrek saga became Santa-Barbara very soon and degraded to a point it's unbelievable and dead, which is shame for a truly interesting character. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The overall aesthetics weren't that dark. The theme and stories perhaps, it is after all chaos pretty much destroying everything. The style though was more into the high fantasy colors rather than what we had before with FB. These all remain individual interpretations of style. I could never get into the earlier AOS imagery and thankfully it has evolved in a positive way with MP.

What is Santa-Barbara?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Mordeus said:

The overall aesthetics weren't that dark. The theme and stories perhaps, it is after all chaos pretty much destroying everything. The style though was more into the high fantasy colors rather than what we had before with FB. These all remain individual interpretations of style. I could never get into the earlier AOS imagery and thankfully it has evolved in a positive way with MP.

What is Santa-Barbara?

Actually it has evolved in a negative way with MP.     Opinions , we all have them.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very exciting news! Here's hoping Gotrek (and Felix if he finds him?) gets a mini and warscroll to mark the release! :D (Eisenhorn just got one so it's not out of the realms of possibility...)

 

45 minutes ago, Mordeus said:

What is Santa-Barbara?

A university town in California. I have no idea what it has to with the tone of the later Gotrek and Felix books though. Maybe he was calling them cartoony and meant Hanna-Barbera?  :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mordeus said:

The overall aesthetics weren't that dark.

Well, if Chaos ruling everything, total despair and degradation, death of millions, bringing down civilizations and such stuff are not that dark, than nothing would be. Darker is only 40k because there you don't have even hope to survive.

1 hour ago, Mordeus said:

The style though was more into the high fantasy colors rather than what we had before with FB

I wonder how people read or where they were hiding all those years. AoS is and remains high fantasy from the start, like it was back in the day, and how people see it other ways remains a complete mystery for me.

1 hour ago, Mordeus said:

I could never get into the earlier AOS imagery and thankfully it has evolved in a positive way with MP

Evolution, as any change, is always positive. But nothing really changed compared to the start. The setting just grows.

1 hour ago, Mordeus said:

What is Santa-Barbara?

One of the longest TV series and a synonym of degradation because it became so long it lost the last bits of creativity and whatever remained from the start. Literature is vulnerable to this even more, because when the author does not know when to stop the series becomes moronic. Which we can see also on TV with endless sequels, prequels, spin-offs and other trash all over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

Well, if Chaos ruling everything, total despair and degradation, death of millions, bringing down civilizations and such stuff are not that dark, than nothing would be. Darker is only 40k because there you don't have even hope to survive.

I wonder how people read or where they were hiding all those years. AoS is and remains high fantasy from the start, like it was back in the day, and how people see it other ways remains a complete mystery for me.

Except Order is fighting back against Chaos and doing damn well at it. Sigmar is, as far as a Warhammer setting goes, an outright good God who's extremely active. The Super Human TotallyNotSpaceMarines can be brought back to life, and whilst I'm sure somebody will tout 'but memories!' as a smudge against that, the fact they can be resurrected at all is pretty damn, well, not that dark. The main driving force of the plot is not Chaos is coming and you're all screwed but Chaos has come, but now we're striking back and actually succeeding.  Hell, the opening crawling to every book is about Sigmar taking vengeance back against Chaos.

The problem that AoS has in comparison to 40k/WHFB's Grimdarkness is that it's not very gritty. Gritty doesn't necessarily mean dark (see pretty much any BBC production) but it goes a hell of a long way to setting the tone as such. Bright, bombastic colours, super human good guys, titanic outright heroes and villains... WHFB was so iconic because it lacked all of this, at least most of the time. I think ultimately that's my main issue with finding AoS all that dark. WHFB focused a great deal on the everyman. Your Empire, Dwarf and Elven armies were largely made up of men-at-arms with a few professional soldiers mixed in. Even the nigh-superhuman Warriors of Chaos had huge screens of Average Viking Joes. I wouldn't go so far as to say it felt grounded, but there was a real depth to the civilisations that Age of Sigmar lacks.

I feel that for something to be dark one of the key ingredients is giving us something either to care about or on some level feel the significance of  and then witnessing all the horrible things that may, and do, occur to it. AoS doesn't really have that yet because despite their recent efforts the actual depth to the Mortal Realms is so lacking. They've taken strides with things like Hammerhal, but there's still a long way to go.

AoS has the same problem as 40k, where we hear about how much it sucks to be the Everyman, but when the vast majority of the fiction and armies played are some variety of Super Human working for the closest thing to Good Guys I feel like it really robs the setting of the same 'connection' of sorts to the grassroots - if fictional - civilisations of the Old World. 40k gets around this somewhat because the Imperium really is a horrible place to live with horrendous leadership and, as above, Chaos is knockin' and they're all doomed anyway. AoS doesn't have that and in fact it's far more optimistic than any other Warhammer setting.

Is AoS dark? Yeah, sure, it's pretty dark. But compared to WHFB/40k? Ehhh... Malign Portents is going the right way about it, but until the focus shifts away from Sigmar's Golden Boys I doubt it will feel overly such. I know most of the replies to this will be "but not being dark isn't a bad thing!" and no, not necessarily, but my point was more aimed towards those claiming it's as dark, or even more so, than WHFB/40k.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Except Order is fighting back against Chaos and doing damn well at it. Sigmar is, as far as a Warhammer setting goes, an outright good God who's extremely active. The Super Human TotallyNotSpaceMarines can be brought back to life, and whilst I'm sure somebody will tout 'but memories!' as a smudge against that, the fact they can be resurrected at all is pretty damn, well, not that dark. The main driving force of the plot is not Chaos is coming and you're all screwed but Chaos has come, but now we're striking back and actually succeeding.  Hell, the opening crawling to every book is about Sigmar taking vengeance back against Chaos.

The problem that AoS has in comparison to 40k/WHFB's Grimdarkness is that it's not very gritty. Gritty doesn't necessarily mean dark (see pretty much any BBC production) but it goes a hell of a long way to setting the tone as such. Bright, bombastic colours, super human good guys, titanic outright heroes and villains... WHFB was so iconic because it lacked all of this, at least most of the time. I think ultimately that's my main issue with finding AoS all that dark. WHFB focused a great deal on the everyman. Your Empire, Dwarf and Elven armies were largely made up of men-at-arms with a few professional soldiers mixed in. Even the nigh-superhuman Warriors of Chaos had huge screens of Average Viking Joes. I wouldn't go so far as to say it felt grounded, but there was a real depth to the civilisations that Age of Sigmar lacks.

I feel that for something to be dark one of the key ingredients is giving us something either to care about or on some level feel the significance of  and then witnessing all the horrible things that may, and do, occur to it. AoS doesn't really have that yet because despite their recent efforts the actual depth to the Mortal Realms is so lacking. They've taken strides with things like Hammerhal, but there's still a long way to go.

AoS has the same problem as 40k, where we hear about how much it sucks to be the Everyman, but when the vast majority of the fiction and armies played are some variety of Super Human working for the closest thing to Good Guys I feel like it really robs the setting of the same 'connection' of sorts to the grassroots - if fictional - civilisations of the Old World. 40k gets around this somewhat because the Imperium really is a horrible place to live with horrendous leadership and, as above, Chaos is knockin' and they're all doomed anyway. AoS doesn't have that and in fact it's far more optimistic than any other Warhammer setting.

Actually the very first book/novella describes how horrible a place the mortal realms are and how much it sucks.

GW would be better off letting AOS be it's own thing and forget about the failed WHFB.   The "grimdark" of WHFB never appealed to me, still doesn't.  I really hope AOS doesn't go that way.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And Preorders are hitting Amazon.com for the Audiobook written by David Guymer: (with an October 2018 release for the audiobook)

Realmslayer (Warhammer: Age of Sigmar) Audiobook

Description:

“Fabled hero of the Warhammer Old World, Gotrek Gurnisson is reborn and cast into the Age of Sigmar for a brand-new, feature-length audio adventure. 

Gotrek Gurnisson was the greatest monster slayer of the age, who met his doom at the End Times. The heroic duardin stepped forth into the Realm of Chaos to fight the daemons gnawing at the world's ending and satisfy his death oath, leaving behind his companion Felix Jaeger. Now Gotrek has returned, having outlived the old gods and the Old World. Spat from the ruinous depths with his redemption unfulfilled, he emerges into the Mortal Realms, a strange new world where gods walk the earth and dark forces are ascendant. Nothing is as he remembers. His oaths are dust, and the lands are torn asunder by Chaos. Yet when Gotrek learns of human champions being elevated to immortality for Sigmar’s fight against this darkness, the so-called 'Stormcast Eternals', he knows why fate has brought him into this new age. To find Felix. For only then can he find the peace in death he seeks. But is there more to Gotrek's apotheosis than even he can fathom? Has he truly been chosen by Grimnir and for what purpose? 

This audio drama boxed set contains a four-part story read by a stellar cast, recounting the much anticipated return of Gotrek Gurnisson.”

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1784967866/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1518387524&sr=1-10

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dumping a cool Gotrek and Felix easter egg from the "Monster Week" rules articles the GW website ran back in September, and a pair of fan service-y references to Malakai Makaisson (or at least an implied descendent of his) from Eight Lamentations: Spear of Shadows:
 
HB9fWsz.jpg?1
 
 
 
A3Vwyeo.png
 
The second of these is just weird when you remember that the real world's modern flushing toilet was pioneered by a man named Thomas Crapper. Do duardin in the Mortal Realms refer to themselves as "taking a Makai" when going to the john? o.O
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, chord said:

Actually the very first book/novella describes how horrible a place the mortal realms are and how much it sucks.

GW would be better off letting AOS be it's own thing and forget about the failed WHFB.   The "grimdark" of WHFB never appealed to me, still doesn't.  I really hope AOS doesn't go that way.  

I actually do not think GW would be better off letting AoS be its own thing and forget about WFB. Where you are severly mistaken is that WFB failed. What occured is that 7th and 8th edition failed, the 20 years before that, WFB was getting actual Games Workshops by and made a lot of players very happy. It was around the 7th edition that the switch to 40K was more and more accepted to be the larger player groups. You might wonder why, my real reason is that change is good but WFB especially from 6th to 8th was way too much stuck on it's own rules, known stats and little minor tweeks to the edition to the point where 8th might aswell have been called 6.2th edtion.

However it's because of the long history of WFB that I believe AoS respects it's older customers by acknowledging that AoS is a follow up to WFB, which it has been since the inception of 2015, both in lore and physical product.
Lastly, Games Workshop would actually have to pay out of their own pocket if theyd simply discontinued all the WFB related models to make AoS it's own thing. While it's fully possible, this cost will translate to the customers and because of that I'd very much say "Keep AoS as the follow up for WFB and do not ever forget about the great times of WFB".

Understand that from a business perspective what you are suggesting is not only suddenly seeking for unknown markets it's likewise disrespecting your former WFB customers. Know that without WFB there would be no AoS. If you want people to acknowledge the system be open to it's older format, don't act like that never happend. AoS could have been a much bigger succes if Games Workshop communicated better with their customers back then. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bringing back Warhammer Fantasy battle is honestly my highest hope. Making a new version of the ruleset with some fun updates to the setting maybe saying the End times were foiled a lot of the characters that died there did not die.  And most of the characters did not decide to suddenly act out of character to make big changes. (There is no reason Teclis should have done half the things he did in the End Times. Even less reason the Elves should have accepted Malekith.) 

But at the same time I would not throw out Age of Sigmar. As that would just be insulting its fans like throwing out the Old World did.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please, not this again! Yes, the death of WHFB was a tragedy, something that is easily agreed upon. But it is death and gone, let it rest for good and treasure the fond memories we have of it. Bringing it back would bastardise and mutilate everything it was even more. GW should stick to AoS, flush out the fluff and expand the rules, without mirroring what was WHFB. While personally, I like the loss connections to the old world, I thing the should be kept as vague and shrouded as possible. Gods and Ascended beeings are one thing but bringing back mere mortals, even if they once were heroes of old is unnecessary. As much as Malus Darkblade or Gotrek were loved characters they don't need to reapear in person - have them referenced as ledgends, if you must namedrop them. But make way for new characters, explore the 8 realms further and develope the new setting. There is so much potenital, when not chaining yourself to the old fluff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't for a minute want to bring WFB back. All I'm saying really is that I believe that Age of Sigmar is a great follow up to WFB. At the same time, especially for narrative, it's great that the End Times occured for AoS because it gives a reason why it is such an epic fantasy saga. 
Because AoS' realms are made up the way they are, throwbacks to WFB are only logical. If the model range itself is still also largely created for WFB intentions and you want to make it logical in AoS the only way to do that is to make some sence of what's going on.
What I mean by this is that for Skaven for example it's only logical to work things out in Clans because that's what the models represent. They have been designed for that purpose. To look alike but also not be a copy of each other.

It's also seen in Grand Allegiance Death or Seraphon. Death failed to make any reasonable army with GH2017's Ally system, all that really was left to play is Grand Allegiance Death/Wraithfleet. Now with Legions of Nagash a key/essential 4 'Legions' are made that function like Grand Allegiance Death 2.0. Without doubt it will make a competitive appearance.
Seraphon, unlike say Warherds/Brayherds wasn't split into Slann, Skinks and Saurus, luckily also because the army has all the tools to compete because of it. Like Grand Allegiance Death/Legions of Nagash it also came forth out of one line from WFB. So no matter how you turn it, with the Warscrolls also being so closely designed with WFB in mind you can't really ignore the whole WFB background to make AoS something completely different because it isn't a completely different product to begin with ;) . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Killax said:

I wouldn't for a minute want to bring WFB back. All I'm saying really is that I believe that Age of Sigmar is a great follow up to WFB. At the same time, especially for narrative, it's great that the End Times occured for AoS because it gives a reason why it is such an epic fantasy saga. 

I heavily disagree and am also of the opinon that the End Times was a horrible idea. There is nothing stopping them from bringing the Old World back at point they want. It's something I would do in a heartbeat if I could.

Rebooting the ruleset and adding new models was all they needed to relaunch interest. There was no need to throw out the old setting.

The Age of Sigmar setting is just too hard for me to relate to despite the material I have recently checked out about it.  Like I just read one of the older Gotrek and Felix books and one of the Recent Age of Sigmar books, and enjoyed the former so much more. The Stormcasts are not a good protagonist faction I have tried to give them a chance and I just can't relate to them. And the setting is just too big, having established borders is a good thing. Even 40k has a universe map. 

Even if they don't make a new rule set for it bringing the setting back would be a good move and would make lots of the people happy. But at the same time I would not kill the Age of Sigmar setting as it has it's own fans. 

Might as well add this is not nostalgia or anything panting my views. I only became really interested in fantasy and Age of Sigmar after Fantasy had been discontinued. Stuff like Vermintide and Total War Warhammer being my first primary exposure. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...