Review - Maggotkin of Nurgle - Rotbringers Scrolls Pg3

[Malin]

35 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Tom is correct.

Oh ******, there goes one drop army idea into the bin

So the list might be different after all, or stay as it is, all depends on amount of Sylvaneth and Changehosts on the tournament

10 Blightkings in one unit is so tempting, I need to use it!

 

[GeneralZero]

Nurgle sems to be a big, no, a GREAT  turning point in the battle tome policy. And that also seems to be  done also in the upcoming Death battletome.

I explain: In the nurgle battle tome you don't have only ONE army, you can build at least 3 very differents ones with allegiance (mortal, blight, daemons), plus all the chaos combinations. This is by far the most complete battle tome for a specific army since AoS was out.  All of this is backed up with the richest miniatures pool specific for nurgle! Imagine that the GUO kit can alone be built in 3 really different Mega Monsters! (yeah, I know about the Death big one also zomby dragon neferata etc...). You have also, for a new army 2 SC (in fact one SC plus blightwar box).  The only type of unit that I dont see is some long rage shooting, but maybe I'm wrong (I don't have yet the battle tome).

Upcoming death battletome seems to be oriented the same way. 

I'm super excited about 2018 releases

[WoollyMammoth]

There is a lot of cool stuff in this book, but a lot of head scratching as well.

I was really hoping for an epic Glottkin, but all we got is a worse tree stomp. They die too fast now and this book doesn't change that.  This is the biggest let down for me. To be fair, this continues to be the case for pretty much every large named char. GW needs to come up with a better formula to get their biggest kits back on the table. 

Maggoth lords are still uninteresting. All these big, beautiful plastic kits are not that great meanwhile old/hideous/resin models like Epidemius, the Harbinger of Decay, Sorcerer and Festus did not get new models but the rules on these antiques were solidified to make/keep them staples??

Blightkings have this beautiful varied kit with all kinds of cool weapons/armor/shields and GW really copped out and created this generic simple 'blighted weapon' rule. Was really hoping to see more in the Blightking scroll. Overall though, I'm happy that you have a huge toolkit to really enjoy these beautiful models now.  

The updates to the Lord of Plagues and Gutrot sound great, and the Lord of Blights is a great new addition, though I was really hoping for a big beautiful "Lord of Contagion" style model. These guys don't greatly stand out from the blightkings they lead. But this can mostly be fixed by modeling/converting/kitbashing - its the rules that are set in stone, and they all look solid.

Daemons got a lot of new tools. It sounds like nurglings finally do something. Heralds are finally wizards which I was really hoping for. Rotigus is an appropriate super special char - but no command ability?

The Plaguebearer point increase is really odd. If you are familiar with them, you know they couldent hit the broadside of a barn. With +1 attack from the GUO, Re-rolls from Spolipox and new speed synergy, you can get more out of them, but at the same time they got a point increase. I would have appreciated a buff more than a balancing act. When your opponent snipes Spoilpox, you still have the same old rusty blades that snap half the time they are swung. Sure they are still hard to kill, but the only thing new about that is you are paying more for it. 

Drones changed a lot differently than I expected. They seem like the key centerpiece to daemon armies now. Horticulous seems like just a thematic thing where you go around sprouting 20 trees around the board. The Beast of Nurgle rules are surprisingly un-appealing considering it has a great new kit. I dont really understand the point of Sloppity Bilepiper. 

I wish they had given you something else to do with Contagion Points than summoning. If you could have done some cool stuff with them if you had an excess, it would be a lot more appealing. If you don't/can't risk summoning for your points (which is often the case), you don't really have any useful options.

The spells, allegiance and artifacts are all well done, and that effects everything, so its nice there are lots of ways to enjoy all the Nurgle models, even if some of them still feel off. Overall Nurgle is a lot better than its disjointed former self. I have no idea what is going to happen when all of this stuff comes together on the table.

[GeneralZero]

5 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

I was really hoping for an epic Glottkin, but all we got is a worse tree stomp. They die too fast now and this book doesn't change that.  This is the biggest let down for me. To be fair, this continues to be the case for pretty much every large named char. GW needs to come up with a better formula to get their biggest kits back on the table. 

Maggoth lords are still uninteresting. All these big, beautiful plastic kits are not that great meanwhile old/hideous/resin models like Epidemius, the Harbinger of Decay, Sorcerer and Festus did not get new models but the rules on these antiques were solidified to make/keep them staples??

this is really unfortunate as I am really in love with those miniatures. Especially the gotkin.

On a financial point of view, this is indeed for GW a bad move to let down the top of their miniatures.

[Yeled]

3 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

this is really unfortunate as I am really in love with those miniatures. Especially the gotkin.

On a financial point of view, this is indeed for GW a bad move to let down the top of their miniatures.

Yeah, I kind of agree. I really like the Glottkin model, and the rules are pretty great in general. I was looking forward to needing to buy it. But tbh I can't justify purchasing it as I think it will sit on the sideline too often. I may still pick it up but it would have been nice if GW made it a must buy. Maggoth Lords, too.

[shadowgra]

I still think that bloab is playable (more than playable). 

-1 to casting with tzeentch and spell caster meta is good, -1 to hit on bubble if goes off is great. Spell is pretty useful , often does at least 3d3 mortal in my turn on a 2+. And now he got an two extra spell to play with while he's outsider 18" or doesn't need to cast his.

Glottkin is really hard to justify in cost.

However festus got hit pretty hard and now it lost all appealing to me. Just take rustfang and you have the spell that he casts on a 7+ automatically. Also 140 is too much for a 1 spell mage.

That is also true for rotbringer sorcerer for me, but the +1 spell cast could male the difference in taking him.

 

[Arkiham]

The only way I've felt you can play the maggoth lords and glottkin are in plaguetouched. It's affordable and useful. The -1 to hit in melee just about makes up for the lack of command trait, combined with glottkin he could easily be running at -2 to hit in combat . 

 

Long as you can deal with shooting (gutrot and kings teleporting maybe to threaten them) you might be able to outlast them

[shadowgra]

1 minute ago, Arkiham said:

The only way I've felt you can play the maggoth lords and glottkin are in plaguetouched. It's affordable and useful. The -1 to hit in melee just about makes up for the lack of command trait, combined with glottkin he could easily be running at -2 to hit in combat . 

 

Long as you can deal with shooting (gutrot and kings teleporting maybe to threaten them) you might be able to outlast them

If you can protect the harbinger, and without cunning deceiver and chaos talisman is way harder than before.

I am thinking to go with +1 wound and 6++ ward save

 

Arguably they are all better with plaguetouched

[FRoper]

I was thinking of taking Glottkin with a blight cyst warband. most people I play take combat armies or with limited shooting. so in my gaming area I think I could make him work. 

[GeneralZero]

3 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Maggoth lords are still uninteresting. All these big, beautiful plastic kits are not that great meanwhile old/hideous/resin models like Epidemius, the Harbinger of Decay, Sorcerer and Festus did not get new models but the rules on these antiques were solidified to make/keep them staples??

When you look at the models, you can not think they aren't canon like kinda type of ranged unit. It should have been great if they did it this way! Spitting canons in a nurgle army hehehe (with some magic of course)

[Screwface]

Ah man, why did they have to go and do Orghotts like that? My favourite end times character! He went from a close combat beast to a bit of a damp squib. 

[WoollyMammoth]

New info:

clarification on the Glottkin-

They are still 420, which is not crazy. A Vamp on dragon is 440 for example. Its not a 600 point stardrake or something. Hes on the point level of "wizard on badass monster" but with 18 wounds instead of 14. Hes does not take a huge commitment like Alarielle or Archaon. 

His thing was roll a D6 for each unit within 7", and if you beat their bravery they have -1 to hit in the combat phase. Now it is 2D6 vs their bravery characteristic. (this means the number on their profile, no modifiers).  So everyone in a giant bubble is at risk of having -1 to hit.

Hes got a new spell; Rancid Visitations. you cause a mortal wound to a unit for every model in the unit within  3" of him. So basically, if a horde surrounds him, hes going to obliterate the horde (if he survives).

Sloppity gives -1 to enemies bravery characteristic within 7". He is Glottkins little buddy.

Festus can hang out behind the Glottkin healing him D3 and tossing out permanent -1 saves.

Personally, I would take the Harbinger of Decay as the general with The Witherstave artifact .. enemies within 12" of him re-roll 6s to hit.  Now the Harbinger and Glottkin have the 5++ save (and every other mortal within 7"). Enemies that get to close to Glottkin fumble their 6s and maybe even -1 to hit!

Sadly you have to forfeit Glottkins command but 5++ is a great replacement. 

Blight Cyst is 220.
So you are paying out the butt for rending+ignore cover BK. It sounds like each unit throws one 4+3+ head, but based on the wording of the tome preview it sounds like you get a head per model. This is written poorly and needs a clarification - likely it means each model, so 20 Blightkings = 20 shots. You can only cast Blades of Putrefaction on a single unit so would only be useful if you are taking a unit if 20 BK (580)  
- Interestingly, BK are 20pts less per unit, but you are only saving 60 for 20 instead of  120 points before. The discount went way down.
- Another tip I didn't see anywhere is the BK leader is 5 wounds. 

All Rotbringers are mortals. So they can choose any of the Rotbringer or Mortal stuff.

I was so hoping the Herald became a wizard, and he is so awesome now. The daemon spells are so cool.  Favoured Poxes is -1 to hit, wound and save ( and is permanent as long as the caster dosen't move or die. If you have two of them, the next turn another Herald casts it again to stack it .. -2 to hit, wound and charge. Throw in Festus for -3 to save. 

Glorious Afflictions - Debuff. 1/2 move, run, charge. Also cannot fly. 21"

... how about a Balewind Vortex for either of these ..... Maximum trollery. 
 

 

[shadowgra]

Blight cyst is cool. Cost 220, is not that high for what it provides

[Percivael]

1 hour ago, WoollyMammoth said:

New info:

clarification on the Glottkin-

They are still 420, which is not crazy. A Vamp on dragon is 440 for example. Its not a 600 point stardrake or something. Hes on the point level of "wizard on badass monster" but with 18 wounds instead of 14. Hes does not take a huge commitment like Alarielle or Archaon. 

His thing was roll a D6 for each unit within 7", and if you beat their bravery they have -1 to hit in the combat phase. Now it is 2D6 vs their bravery characteristic. (this means the number on their profile, no modifiers).  So everyone in a giant bubble is at risk of having -1 to hit.

Hes got a new spell; Rancid Visitations. you cause a mortal wound to a unit for every model in the unit within  3" of him. So basically, if a horde surrounds him, hes going to obliterate the horde (if he survives).

Sloppity gives -1 to enemies bravery characteristic within 7". He is Glottkins little buddy.

Festus can hang out behind the Glottkin healing him D3 and tossing out permanent -1 saves.

Personally, I would take the Harbinger of Decay as the general with The Witherstave artifact .. enemies within 12" of him re-roll 6s to hit.  Now the Harbinger and Glottkin have the 5++ save (and every other mortal within 7"). Enemies that get to close to Glottkin fumble their 6s and maybe even -1 to hit!

Sadly you have to forfeit Glottkins command but 5++ is a great replacement. 

Blight Cyst is 220.
So you are paying out the butt for rending+ignore cover BK. It sounds like each unit throws one 4+3+ head, but based on the wording of the tome preview it sounds like you get a head per model. This is written poorly and needs a clarification - likely it means each model, so 20 Blightkings = 20 shots. You can only cast Blades of Putrefaction on a single unit so would only be useful if you are taking a unit if 20 BK (580)  
- Interestingly, BK are 20pts less per unit, but you are only saving 60 for 20 instead of  120 points before. The discount went way down.
- Another tip I didn't see anywhere is the BK leader is 5 wounds. 

All Rotbringers are mortals. So they can choose any of the Rotbringer or Mortal stuff.

I was so hoping the Herald became a wizard, and he is so awesome now. The daemon spells are so cool.  Favoured Poxes is -1 to hit, wound and save ( and is permanent as long as the caster dosen't move or die. If you have two of them, the next turn another Herald casts it again to stack it .. -2 to hit, wound and charge. Throw in Festus for -3 to save. 

Glorious Afflictions - Debuff. 1/2 move, run, charge. Also cannot fly. 21"

... how about a Balewind Vortex for either of these ..... Maximum trollery. 
 

 

Nice analysis! It’s really good to read some positivity regarding The Glottkin as I’m planning to use him with a Harbinger as general. Like you say, you need to look at it in relation to other wizards on large monsters. I’m going all Rotbringers (Im toying with the massive regiment too) and mainly Blightkings to make the most of the Blightcyst. Yes his footprint will make a massive difference to rancid visitations. I’m excited about using  the Glottkin again now! Thanks!

[shadowgra]

17 minutes ago, Percivael said:

Nice analysis! It’s really good to read some positivity regarding The Glottkin as I’m planning to use him with a Harbinger as general. Like you say, you need to look at it in relation to other wizards on large monsters. I’m going all Rotbringers (Im toying with the massive regiment too) and mainly Blightkings to make the most of the Blightcyst. Yes his footprint will make a massive difference to rancid visitations. I’m excited about using  the Glottkin again now! Thanks!

Remember to use a big unit of marauders to maximise the effect of his awesome spell!

[tea_wild_owl]

44 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

Remember to use a big unit of marauders to maximise the effect of his awesome spell!

a big unit of marauders that can do some mortals with blade of putrefication (spell for mortals on 6+) since they can have a +1 to hit reroll 1

[Caffran101]

34 minutes ago, tea_wild_owl said:

a big unit of marauders that can do some mortals with blade of putrefication (spell for mortals on 6+) since they can have a +1 to hit reroll 1

And you could ally in Sayl to throw them around. If they got damned terrain on the unit they would be doing mortal wounds on a 4+! disgusting!

[fredster4050]

23 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Nurgle sems to be a big, no, a GREAT  turning point in the battle tome policy. And that also seems to be  done also in the upcoming Death battletome.

I explain: In the nurgle battle tome you don't have only ONE army, you can build at least 3 very differents ones with allegiance (mortal, blight, daemons), plus all the chaos combinations. This is by far the most complete battle tome for a specific army since AoS was out.  All of this is backed up with the richest miniatures pool specific for nurgle! Imagine that the GUO kit can alone be built in 3 really different Mega Monsters! (yeah, I know about the Death big one also zomby dragon neferata etc...). You have also, for a new army 2 SC (in fact one SC plus blightwar box).  The only type of unit that I dont see is some long rage shooting, but maybe I'm wrong (I don't have yet the battle tome).

Upcoming death battletome seems to be oriented the same way. 

I'm super excited about 2018 releases

It is a great book, I am very fortunate to have a copy, however the Blades of Khorne book isn't massively dissimilar , it gives 3:1 armies as does this book and the Bloodthirster kit is also 3:1 and the Verminlord kit is 4:1 I think?

It does enable better Nurgle interaction and there are some wicked combinations for speed out there (Blightkings at Move 9 anyone and another +1 for charging), which seem a little uncharacteristic for Nurgle?

The buffing combos and MW output looks like a key Nurgle feature, however there's definitely a dilemma about taking Plaguebearers over Blightkings as your Battleline. There's now only 40 points between them and although the PB's have a 4+ 5++ the BK's have twice as many wounds now, and in combat it's a no brainer.

Points adjustment of the Maggothlords in the wrong direction, plus the buffs to the GUO, could result in more Blightking/GUO battleline/monster combos rather than Rotbringer Characters/Blightkings, which would be unfortunate in terms of feel.

I think there's a lot to explore in the book, and whilst certain lists almost build themselves, they'll be deeper, better flavoursome lists especially for friendly club games when you know who you are playing and what they are bringing,  which let's face it,  are much more common than competitive tournament games.

 

[Chris Tomlin]

On ‎11‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:23 AM, Vomikron Noxis said:

@Chris Tomlin, you’re a legend brother!

Hey, I must've looked at the wrong column before btw, the Sorcerer did go up slightly. Sorry! He's still super worth it.

On ‎11‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 1:14 PM, Arkiham said:

@Chris Tomlin

Would you say that the points increases on nearly all the characters are justified? Or is it simply done to counter act the reduction on the blightkings? 

I would say it's to offset some of the allegiance abilities and just create a greater internal balance. Time will tell whether it is justified when we see what characters get used regardless of increases and which don't.

I did mention the changes to The Glottkin's Horrific Opponent rule and of course the new spells can have some nice synergy with him, but to be honest I still think a Great Unclean One is just a better shout unless thematically you want pure Rotbringers. Strangely though, you have more synergy off the Great Unclean One with the Rotbringer units though, thanks to the Doomsday Bell!

[RedRowan]

@Chris Tomlin

Thanks very much for the review, some great information in this thread. 

Steve