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tea_wild_owl

new death battletome announced!

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I've never rolled a six in my life.  The day GH2017 took away RotN, they might as well have dropped Deathless Minions too, for all the good it does me now.  So nah, I wouldn't mind if they swapped it out for something else entirely.  Honestly, I kind of hope they do.

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4 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Seems like as good a place to bring it up as any (while we wait on some actual news to discuss). What would peoples thoughts be if we lost the 6+ Ward as our army trait, as well as regen focused hero and banner abilities, but gained something more akin to Necron Reanimation Protocol from 40K (while those banner and heroes move on to doing other, more interesting things)?

I don't mind banners still resurrecting the basic models.  Rather than the rather boring 6+ save mechanic, a system where heroes within 6" of a unit can duplicate the effect of the banner (putting his own magical/necromantic weight behind it if you will) would be a lot more interesting from a game-play point of view. Several heroes putting effort in to resurrect a particularly devastated block of skellies sounds a lot more fun than trying to roll 6+ results...

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7 minutes ago, Elmir said:

I don't mind banners still resurrecting the basic models.  Rather than the rather boring 6+ save mechanic, a system where heroes within 6" of a unit can duplicate the effect of the banner (putting his own magical/necromantic weight behind it if you will) would be a lot more interesting from a game-play point of view. Several heroes putting effort in to resurrect a particularly devastated block of skellies sounds a lot more fun than trying to roll 6+ results...

I just felt if we got something more akin to current Reanimation Protocol (funnily enough Deathless Minion currently works like old RP), that the banners as they are no would be a bit much.

For those that don't keep up with 40K rules, current RP has you roll a D6 for every casualty a unit has suffered during the game (but not for models that have fled) at the beginning of each turn. Each roll of 5+ brings a guy back. And honestly, I would like to see undead move away from a system that is so overly reliant on characters. It is fine for characters to provide buffs on their warscrolls, or for individual units to rely on a character being nearby (ghouls and skeletons already have such rules). And your Generals trait should be reliant on him. But I feel the army should get its army rules, as long as the army exists on the table. Because it honestly seems like a nightmare to balance (do you make it freakishly powerful to compensate for how easy it is to remove for example).

If a regen of sorts did become out army trait, I think it would be appropriate for Skeletons and Zombies banners to give them extra guys back, but not necessarily D6. The Blood Knight banner I would like to see offer them a ward save of sorts (a callback to the Drakenhof Banner), which is also something they could honestly use. Black Knights and Grave Guard might play with enemy leadership or inflict a single mortal wound to engaged enemy units via a soul stealing banner.

But it seems we all dislike Deathless Minions.

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In saying that, death characters don't really provide a massive amount of game changing synergies compared to other faction in AOS. I think the strongest we have in terms of synergy is FEC, which is a great army. But I'm in agreement, change that 6+ to something else, or even just have it as each unit gets it rather than having to be in range. 

God knows why they took ROTN away, death isn't that competitive........yet.

Edited by Dracothjay

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RotN was too good relative to other possible command traits and abilities.  It made a zombie champion a better and stronger general of the undead than any mortarch.  It didnt make death too syrong, because the rest was mostly so weak, but it did prevent death from having units that were great if their own because they'd be too strong with the extra 5++.

It did have to go, but the rest of everything needed and still needs to be tuned up heavily to compensate.  GH'17 and the Compendium revamps didn't do that though.  If anything, they mostly layered on additional nerfs.  Maybe LoN will help, but I'm not brimming with confidence. 

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GHB17 was pretty much a slap in the face for death in more than one way.... RotN was the best by far, but that was because the other ones were so woefully weak tbh.  It didn't mean RotN was supergood in it's own right.  Even with a 5++, those zombie or other units weren't blasting other armies in the meta... not even close. 

Rather than buffing the rest, they just made RotN pisspoor and they nerfed deathless minion range overall to add insult to injury. The fact that they SHOULD have buffed the rest to become on par is something you can see now in the best death position in nearly each tournament  since GHB17 (if there are any present to begin with at all). 

I do hope LoN book gives us really strong traits/artifacts overall. If it doesn't, we are screwed, because GHB traits could at least be tweaked if they turn out to be too strong/too weak... This book will set out traits in "stone" (or at least in a permanent print, making adjustments less likely) and so far, I haven't seen any of the traits that are in print being tweaked, even if there are some that are too good in the game to be true (like the sylvaneth treelord with his armor for instance) or some that  you'd never even consider... 

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You're quite right, I was wrong there, sorry.  That said, the comment still stands if you substitute a skeleton champion.  Under the old general's handbook, a measily skeleton champion was arguably the best possible Death general outside of the compendiums (settra was obviously superior for offensive strategies), since RotN was so very critical, and none of our actual heroes (again, apart from settra) brought anything to the table as generals that was comparable to 39 +d6 per hero phase ablative wounds for RotN.  Oh, you might still run Arkhan or Nagash or a dragon or terrorgheist lord, but you wouldn't actually put them in charge.  They were just too fragile, and RotN was just too important.

 

Anyway, we know what that image was now, it's the purchase list for the recently announced painting competition.  You'll have to buy/paint one starter box, then the new herald, then a couple choices from the various unit boxes below.

Honestly, I'd almost be tempted to participate, if I didn't already have basically all of that stuff.  I mean, I guess I don't have all three mortarchs yet, but.... yeah.  No.  I'm not buying anything until I see LoN in print.  Such a shame that LoN is coming out /after/ the big death focused campaign instead of /before/.  If it were out first, then I'd be super eager to jump into malign portents as an excuse to try out the new rules, but as it is Malign Portents will come and go while I'm still in a holding pattern hoping that LoN gives me some rules for Death that I can actually enjoy playing again.  Just seems like bad planning on GW's part.

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Are there any chances that Flesh Eater Courts will be part of the new Nagash Tome in your opinion? I seem to recall that Nagash disliked Mordants because he is unable to controll them completely (unlike all other undead). So guess my answer to my own question is a big fat no... 

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2 hours ago, Atomicaphex said:

Are there any chances that Flesh Eater Courts will be part of the new Nagash Tome in your opinion? I seem to recall that Nagash disliked Mordants because he is unable to controll them completely (unlike all other undead). So guess my answer to my own question is a big fat no... 

I assume not. They are a whole different force within death that already has a battletome also.

however, I do feel we might see a small pocket in the tome. Maybe in mannfreds legion of night?

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From the announcement, Legions of Nagash will include the war scrolls for all existing Death models, and that includes every Flesh Eater Court unit.  There may or may not be changes to their unit roles and/or points costs - I would expect not, not so soon after points updates in the GH17, but it's entirely possible.  Since their unit rules are going to be in the book, I think it's safe to assume they'll also have some presence within one or more of the various new special character legions, likely including in some new formations.

What won't be in the Legions of Nagash book is the Flesh Eater Court subfaction rules - the formations, allegiance traits, artifacts, and so on from the Flesh Eater Courts battle tome.  We know this because the announcement said the book would have six allegiances, and listed all six, and FEC wasn't among them.

What this means is that if you want to run an FEC allegiance army, then you'll still want to go get the FEC battle tome.  But if you just want to use some Flesh Eater Courts units in a mixed Death Allegiance army, or one based around one of our special characters, then you can skip FEC (at least rules wise, you still might grab it for lore), and just get Legions of Nagash.

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I have not had the time to expand my list properly,  but if they introduced an army list where the core units were all mounted,  that would be my choice. 

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Hrm.  Well, Soulblight has battleline blood knights, with mounted vamps and dragon riding vamps as characters.  The book'll have that.  Regular death can grab skeleton horsemen & chariots from the Tomb Kings compendium, plus have necroknights to run as a more elite unit alongside them.

Don't know if we'll see battleline hexwraiths or black knights in any of the legion lists.  It's certainly possible, though there's no particular reason to expect it.

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On 1/12/2018 at 9:52 AM, Sception said:

Yeah, I don't have a lot of confidence that any of that will happen, but it is at the moment the best I'm hoping for.  What I think we really need is new models for new subfactions (deathcast or otherwise)  led by new heroes, all tied to the new setting of the new game.  It's hard to engage with Age of Sigmar and the Mortal Realms through armies and especially heroes whose designs, histories, personalities, and motivations were all founded in the abandoned setting of a discontinued game.

Part of the reason I'm personally for the introduction of Deathcast, in whatever form they might take, is that we already have a strong character in the background through which we could engage with them, one firmly grounded in the new setting - both in his previous life as a Shyishian noble and his later time as a stormcast before being captured and dominated by nagash.  Make that guy a mortarch!  Make that guy a central character!  Restore that guy's memories, and use him to tell us first hand what life in Shyish was like before chaos, what people and places there are that we should care about and want to fight for.  And then give us cool models for him and his own new subfaction that we can use to fight his battles on the table ourselves.  Have the other mortarchs build relationships with him as rivals and allies, and use that to connect them to the new setting in turn.

Or if not him, then some other new figure.  Narratively, thematically, we need new blood.  Something and more importantly someone that isn't just a hold over from the old world.  Knight of Shrouds comes close, but misses the mark on two points.  First, it's just *a* knight of shrouds, not *the* knight of shrouds.  We need named, singular figures.  Not just generic heroes for any number of, in the end, fundamentally replaceable background characters.  Second, his model.  Don't get me wrong, it's very good, it looks great.  But it's designed to fit in with the old warhammer ghosty models.  It looks like it could easily have been a lord level wraith in the 8th ed vamp counts book.  There's nothing new about it aesthetically, nothing visually setting it apart from the old game or tying it into the new setting.  It doesn't even take any noticeable visual queues from the end times models, apart from the ghostly arms being more similar to the spirit hosts rather than the skeletal wraith arms or more naturally proportioned banshee arms.

So it's definitely a step in the right direction to get something new at all, but like the Shadespire skeletons it doesn't actually provide a way forward for the undead line as a whole, it's just a well executed take on leftover ideas from the old game.  Both the KoS and the shardspire skittles visually make me think of the Old World, of armies marching out of Sylvania to battle against against the armies of Louen Leoncoeur or Karl Franz.  Neither of them make me think of battles for the fate of the Mortal Realms fought against Stormcasts or Bloodbound.

 

Say what you like about Deathcast conceptually, I can certainly understand thinking they would be too redundant, but they'd at least be definitively AoS undead and not WHFB undead.  Alternatively, expand the End Times releases with more kinds of morghasts and a morghast hero, make them a real faction of their own, something the old world never saw.  Or give us a line of wraithly undead elves in death lords style armor, as Nagash takes his toll of the dead souls freed from Slaanesh's grasp.  Or a new living mortal kingdom of Shyish,  One ruled by vampire aristocrats, with a priestly cast of necromancers raising zombies as unskilled labor, all with their own culture, fashion, & aesthetic style distinct from anything we saw in the Old World.  Maybe crib a few  design notes from the City of Yharnam in Bloodborne.  Or something based out of the Underworlds of Shyish.  They're supposed to be every afterlife imaginable, right?  Well imagine some!  Draw from cultures or works that GW hasn't used for inspiration before.  Like, maybe a faction based on the Hell of Dante's Divine Comedy, with different units whose looks and abilities are based on the different kinds of sins that damned them, all twisted by Nagash's personal take on them?

Anything really, so long as it's conceptually, visually new.  Not just new models for old world ideas, but AoS models and ideas altogether.  Something as unique to the Mortal Realms as Stormcasts or Sylvanneth or Kharadron Overlords.  Legacy factions are good, and I want them to continue to receive support.  I want Deathrattle to be expanded until their rules can be used to replace the TK compendium outright, so the old rules can be retired while people with old armies can be simultaneously assured of support going forward.  I want nighthaunt to get an expanded range, too.  I want FEC to get actual models for their heroes that are just 'regular unit guy, but painted fancy'.  But while I hope all that happens, none of it would be able to bring the undead as a whole into relevance in the setting and lore of AoS.  For that, we need something actually and truely new.

That's what I think Death needs, ans sadly it's not what we're getting in this book, and I don't expect to see it any time soon, either.  GW can reorganize the existing death line all they want, and maybe they'll get something playable one of these attempts, but none of it looks like real support on their part, so I'm not sure how they can expect it to drive real engagement on the part of their customers.

I haven't wanted to say much, because of the old, 'If you don't have anything nice to say...' rule, 

But this embodies my concerns to a tee.  Ever since the announcement of Legions of Nagash, my excitement for Malign Portents and the future of Undead in AoS in general has dropped significantly.  

I've always loved the Undead, in almost any setting.  It was hard for me loosing the TK, because I loved their aesthetic so much, but I persisted.  AoS, to me at least, was already way better than WHFB at release, even before the GH.  The GH, made it better, for sure, but I already loved everything in the new setting...  So, I gave the loss of my favorite army a pass.  Then there was FEC, which pissed me off at first, w/ no new models, but after reading it, actually gave me more hope than ever for Death, the fluff was just so awesome.  Then came the drought, we watched every other GA get new factions, models, battletomes, etc... But Death was silent as the grave.  

MP sparked my interest in Death again.  But, idk about the LoN.  It makes me very worried that all we're getting is a FEC treatment for our whole GA.  I desperately want something that pulls Death more firmly into the new setting, something that establishes us as a force to be reckoned with instead of a punching bag that has to hide in the shadows, because everyone else kicks the ****** out of us both narrative and on the table.

That said... I'm trying desperately to hold out hope.  But if this summer comes and goes, and nothing substantial changes, if we don't get new models, and a few new battletomes to get us at least to the same number of battletomes that Destruction has, and if at least one of those battletomes doesn't reflect an entirely new faction, I don't know if i'll still be playing Death come next winter, and I may give up on AoS as a whole.

But it doesn't give me a whole lot of hope when the the first major announcement for the Death re-vamp, seems to be GA:Death 2.0

 

Please, talk me down guys.

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Sadly, there's nothing to talk down.  I mean, from a narrative perspective, I'm still excited for Malign Portents and Legions of Nagash.  They're both suppost to have some real boots-on-the-ground level fluff about life and unlife in Shyish, the kind of lore that's been sorely missing from AoS so far.  And the KoS is a nice addition conceptually and model wise, even if I think they could (and should) have pushed the design further, and made it a singular named entity, again *the* knight of shrouds instead of *a* knight of shrouds.  And while the Legions of Nagash book is just a reshuffling of the existing undead range, and looks very much like 'the FEC treatment, but for the rest of Death', the particular re-arrangement they're going for this time, with subfactions based around the particular personalities, preferences, & priorities of our existing named special characters, is actually a rather interesting angle to take on it.  I'm interested to see what they do with it.  And mechanically, there's no reason why it couldn't work to make the undead perfectly playable, provided they're willing to actually rewrite base battle scrolls and not just layer some shallow 'buy more' formations on top.  I'm not confident that we'll get more than that in this book, but there's no reason why we couldn't.

But while I am, despite my rather pessimistic posts on the subjects, still personally actually pretty interested in Malign Portents and Legions of Nagash, at this point there's really no chance that we're going to see anything truly new out of them.  Nothing for Death  that is distinctly unique to Age of Sigmar, no personalities tied to the new setting in a way that would help drive engagement with it.  Maybe we'll see something like that later in the year, but I remain skeptical.  Especially since the rumors for AoS releases in the latter half of the year are starting to consolidate not around new stuff for Death, but rather around new stuff for Elves & Slaanesh.  I think we'll still likely see Deathrattle and Nighthaunt battle tomes this year, but I'm not at all confident that we'll see any new models for them, let alone for new factions altogether.

But maybe I'm wrong.  I'd like to be wrong.  We'll see.

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I registered just to come and add my two pence. I have been checking this thread on and off for news to do with Legions of Nagash.

I'm a little surprised at the negativity. I totally understand the people who want something new and "Age of sigmarish" I suppose - but there is another side to the coin.

I like skeleton warriors. I really like skeleton warriors. I like that they are a classic fantasy trope that hasn't been "age of sigmarised". I like how cheerfully morbid they are. I like how they represent the slow inevitability of the grave.  I like how cackling and evil they can be.

What I really want is a Deathrattle army to be viable I want to win a game, now and again. I was mad as hell when Deathrattle didn't get anything in GH 2017.

I'm hopeful that what I get from LoN is a viable army list that can be mostly skeletons,  with a mortarch. Fine. I can deal with that. Preferably Arkan because he's basically a skeleton. It would also be cool if we got a new character who was a necromantic skeleton like the shadespire warden. 

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41 minutes ago, Sception said:

Sadly, there's nothing to talk down.  I mean, from a narrative perspective, I'm still excited for Malign Portents and Legions of Nagash.  They're both suppost to have some real boots-on-the-ground level fluff about life and unlife in Shyish, the kind of lore that's been sorely missing from AoS so far.  And the KoS is a nice addition conceptually and model wise, even if I think they could (and should) have pushed the design further, and made it a singular named entity, again *the* knight of shrouds instead of *a* knight of shrouds.  And while the Legions of Nagash book is just a reshuffling of the existing undead range, and looks very much like 'the FEC treatment, but for the rest of Death', the particular re-arrangement they're going for this time, with subfactions based around the particular personalities, preferences, & priorities of our existing named special characters, is actually a rather interesting angle to take on it.  I'm interested to see what they do with it.  And mechanically, there's no reason why it couldn't work to make the undead perfectly playable, provided they're willing to actually rewrite base battle scrolls and not just layer some shallow 'buy more' formations on top.  I'm not confident that we'll get more than that in this book, but there's no reason why we couldn't.

But while I am, despite my rather pessimistic posts on the subjects, still personally actually pretty interested in Malign Portents and Legions of Nagash, at this point there's really no chance that we're going to see anything truly new out of them.  Nothing for Death  that is distinctly unique to Age of Sigmar, no personalities tied to the new setting in a way that would help drive engagement with it.  Maybe we'll see something like that later in the year, but I remain skeptical.  Especially since the rumors for AoS releases in the latter half of the year are starting to consolidate not around new stuff for Death, but rather around new stuff for Elves & Slaanesh.  I think we'll still likely see Deathrattle and Nighthaunt battle tomes this year, but I'm not at all confident that we'll see any new models for them, let alone for new factions altogether.

But maybe I'm wrong.  I'd like to be wrong.  We'll see.

 

 

23 minutes ago, Commisarp said:

I registered just to come and add my two pence. I have been checking this thread on and off for news to do with Legions of Nagash.

I'm a little surprised at the negativity. I totally understand the people who want something new and "Age of sigmarish" I suppose - but there is another side to the coin.

I like skeleton warriors. I really like skeleton warriors. I like that they are a classic fantasy trope that hasn't been "age of sigmarised". I like how cheerfully morbid they are. I like how they represent the slow inevitability of the grave.  I like how cackling and evil they can be.

What I really want is a Deathrattle army to be viable I want to win a game, now and again. I was mad as hell when Deathrattle didn't get anything in GH 2017.

I'm hopeful that what I get from LoN is a viable army list that can be mostly skeletons,  with a mortarch. Fine. I can deal with that. Preferably Arkan because he's basically a skeleton. It would also be cool if we got a new character who was a necromantic skeleton like the shadespire warden. 

Perhaps some context would help you see why I'm disappointed.

I too am a Skeletons fan. They have always been my part of the aesthetic that I like most in Death, which was part of my attachment to Tomb Kings.

But, my real disappointment is because I very rarely get to play this game.  I'm first, and foremost, a hobbyist. I like the modeling and painting side of this game.  It's not that I don't like to play, I love to play.  But ultimately, my current life, combined with a very small AoS community here, adds up to me not getting many games in. Entire years pass between my games.

So... The addition of new models, and new lore is what drives my interest in AoS, as well as 40k.  w/o that, I wouldn't be in this hobby at all.  At least not until my children are older.  But, reading battletomes, and painting mini's is what keeps me in.  And Death has, imo, the funnest models to paint, and put together. I love the Gothic horror, I love the focus on mortality. Sure, I like some of the other models.  But I don't have nearly the same level of interest in the other factions.   Or, at least not to the extent that I want to collect everything they have.  I'll put together an army once in a while, sure, or paint a specific model I really like.  But that's it.

It's now been three-ish years since I've seen anything truly new for my preferred army. Sure, I'll likely enjoy the ride in terms of fluff, but what I want is something I can get my hands on and spend hours building and painting it, watching it take on character as I work, because that's why I love mini's.

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But by no means, am I try to trample on anyone else's enjoyment of the game.  Like I say, I usually keep quite when I feel like this.  As, I really don't like people who publicly rip on things that others love.  In fact, I find people trolling forums and such despicable.  I'm more of a walk away, if your that mad, kind of guy.

But I really, really like AoS.  It's just that I'm starting to loose connection to the setting and the game, because, the part of the game I love the most, not only got hugely trimmed at the release of the new game, but has now been neglected for about 3 years.

 

Anyway, I'll stop posting after this, at least on this specific, line of discussion, unless directly commented on.  As I say, I'm not trying to spread negativity, I'm more just looking for something to be hopeful about, in terms of the parts of the hobby I'm actually able to interact with.

 

Sorry if I came off otherwise.

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I’ve only just started to get interested in Death in the last month or so and have only been playing for 9 months so can’t imagine what a massive wait that must be. 

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20 hours ago, Sception said:

From the announcement, Legions of Nagash will include the war scrolls for all existing Death models, and that includes every Flesh Eater Court unit.  There may or may not be changes to their unit roles and/or points costs - I would expect not, not so soon after points updates in the GH17, but it's entirely possible.  Since their unit rules are going to be in the book, I think it's safe to assume they'll also have some presence within one or more of the various new special character legions, likely including in some new formations.

What won't be in the Legions of Nagash book is the Flesh Eater Court subfaction rules - the formations, allegiance traits, artifacts, and so on from the Flesh Eater Courts battle tome.  We know this because the announcement said the book would have six allegiances, and listed all six, and FEC wasn't among them.

What this means is that if you want to run an FEC allegiance army, then you'll still want to go get the FEC battle tome.  But if you just want to use some Flesh Eater Courts units in a mixed Death Allegiance army, or one based around one of our special characters, then you can skip FEC (at least rules wise, you still might grab it for lore), and just get Legions of Nagash.

If this is true, then I am one happy gamer. I am hoping for a mixed death army.  

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18 hours ago, Sception said:

Hrm.  Well, Soulblight has battleline blood knights, with mounted vamps and dragon riding vamps as characters.  The book'll have that.  Regular death can grab skeleton horsemen & chariots from the Tomb Kings compendium, plus have necroknights to run as a more elite unit alongside them.

Don't know if we'll see battleline hexwraiths or black knights in any of the legion lists.  It's certainly possible, though there's no particular reason to expect it.

I am thinking what a list might look like with the malignant box set being a legal setup and the warscroll being assigned points.   That might be an excuse for hexwraith  battleline.  I like the idea of the engine getting spells too.   I could totally see that army get mounted skittles.

 

Eh, it's already decided.   Just have to wait 

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1 hour ago, MechaBriZilla said:

It's now been three-ish years since I've seen anything truly new for my preferred army. Sure, I'll likely enjoy the ride in terms of fluff, but what I want is something I can get my hands on and spend hours building and painting it, watching it take on character as I work, because that's why I love mini's.

I feel the same way. Building and painting is my main draw from this hobby, and I haven't had anything new to build or paint for Death for ages. I jumped into AoS around a month after the first GHB, and Death rapidly ran out of new things for me to get. 

Heck, I even bought a fair few third party bits, but without rules to make them viable, I don't even need the four Wight Kings I have, as an example. 

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2 hours ago, Commisarp said:

I registered just to come and add my two pence. I have been checking this thread on and off for news to do with Legions of Nagash.

I'm a little surprised at the negativity. I totally understand the people who want something new and "Age of sigmarish" I suppose - but there is another side to the coin.

~ snip ~

What I really want is a Deathrattle army to be viable I want to win a game, now and again. I was mad as hell when Deathrattle didn't get anything in GH 2017.

It's something I'd like to see, too.  If I had to pick favorite models in the range, they'd be skeleton warriors, black knights(!), grave guard, the plastic wight king, spirit hosts, cairne wraiths, morghasts(!), mortis engines(!), the plastic necromancer(!), and Arkhan the Black(!), with exclamation points denoting particular favorites.  If the Legion of Sacrament or Legion of Nagash allegiances turn that particular hodge podge of deathrattle, night haunt, death lord, and death mage kits into a vaguely thematically and mechanically coherent subfaction that works on the table, I'll be quite excited about it.  And that, or at the very least something like that, seems like what the book is trying to do, mechanically.

That on top of the ground level Shyish fluff which I am super excited for but can't really discuss beyond that because there's not yet much really to discuss about it, and me very excited for this book.

The negativity, however, comes from conditioning.  I was not super thrilled with the end result of Flesh Eater Courts.  They still don't feel particularly 'Age of Sigmary' to me, their courtier support heroes with no models (apart from taking models out of your units to paint them fancier, which is absolutely incompatible with AoSs frustrating insistance on buying units by box-sized batches instead of individuals, such that making two ghast courtiers would leave you with eight useless leftovers).  And mechanically FEC felt to me like at best a lateral move, especially with what was done to the ghoul king command abilities.

I was likewise less than overwhelmed by other battle tomes for legacy factions, though their power level has varied considerably such that some are relatively playable in competitive settings.  At least, considerably more so than FEC.  And we're still relatively fresh off the one-two punch of GH2017 and the Compendium updates, both of which hit Death extremely hard, despite our already tenuous position, and that recent experience predisposes me to view rule updates that aren't flogging new models with suspicion.

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x2 less complaining & more getting excited that we are getting a book

so many armies have nothing or not very exciting, look at nurgle, they were not that great at all and now they seem to have so much flavour & super cool rules

I dont care if death isnt teir 1 after their book but as long as they are fun & can do some Manfred style tricky stuff that would be amazing.

IT CAN ONLY GET BETTER PEOPLE! CHEER UP!!

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yeah, but nurgle also got a ton of cool new models to flog.  GW seem much more likely to try cool new rules on new warscrolls for new units, and rather disinclined to make major changes to warscrolls that have already been published in print products, especially if the models aren't changing at the same time.

Don't say "it can only get better".  Things can always get worse.  And wish-listing about what might be in a book that we don't yet have any significant details on is a sure fire way to end up disappointed with whatever turns out to actually be in the book on its release, no matter how good might be.  I personally prefer to anticipate the worst, and then be pleasantly surprised with how much better the end result exceeds the lowest possible bar, no matter how bad it might be.  :P

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