Command Traits how to generate

[mmimzie]

Saddly, GW has seen fit not to be rock solid on some of the rules in the generals hand book. One such rule is Command traits. you can either generate them as you see fit or randomly generate them. As we have had really good talk on how base to base should be handled that I'm very glad everyone is having. I feel we could also tackle this one.

Personal rant here. Skip this if you like, but i'm mad bro. *takes a deep breath and sighs* Now look.... fantasy and 40k have had these stupid random tables for too long... Why the heck would my wizard come to a fight and forget to bring his best freaking spell. He had it yesterday... but today he droped it and picked up make tap water....  why..... Why is it that if i want to make my own custom hero for my army... he's got multiple personality disorder and every day he wakes up he's a freaking new man. Why is it that my general would either put together or be put in charge of an army he can't effectively command... why is he a general then, why is this who he leads... it's so stupid... it's been the worst part of these games for me since i started playing them.

Sorry, thats all out now i'm good promise.... *grits teeth*

 

So, i want to know how you folks think these traits should be handled.

Way i see it. Your first lead general should have the one you pick. This is becuase they are leading thier main force. They know how to command them effectively. This isn't their first time in combat and they know what they are doing when at the helm of thier men/women.

Once you get the new general after your first one dies however.... i think... v.v... *sighs* it should be generated randomly.... now i know it's silly and i understand if folks disagree, but it would make since if he's just not the best one for the job. Maybe he's scared or new, and he fumbles his orders, botching things up. Maybe he's a hot head who jsut does his own thing. being more powerful himself feeling in charge, but his army falters. Maybe he's just got a different strategy that might work with the force, but maybe it's just alittle off from what everyone is used to.  Maybe though... just maybe... they've learned so well under the previous general that they know what this force needs in a leader, and they are ready to pick up the mantle. 

For instance, after the wake of me finding out i miss understood what i knew from the hand book, and bought all kind of spirit stuff for no reason. I made zombies (read "vengeful spirits" here the center of my army), and the ruler of the night is the best general to get the most out of all the unsaved wounds they take. Other units can benefit, but none make use of it better than zombies, as every wound will trigger it. She is the rightful general of that army. Now if she dies though, tactically my opponent has a better target to shoot at,  and i have something to protect. When then why they die i can't just get ruler of the night again, but i might get lucky, and it adds that little glimmer of hope you need, while also giving your enemy a sure fire way to crack a part of your strategy

Another comparison, nagash and other special characters all have their own forms of command traits. They never change, or for the most part don't.  They don't get randomly rekt at the start of every game, and they are usually the best generals for the armies they command. As any general should be. A 40k example would be lots of the special characters who get consistent warlord traits. They have all been shaped by their pasted, and found a way of fighting they like. Why then does a custome general have to be all alzhierm patient or a person with multiple personality disorder every game v.v.

 

"Hey.... whose the cellestant gonna be today???"..... "He's looks drunk... i think this one calls himself Pal??? look just go with it man... I hear Pal is a ******"

[mrstimpson38]

I believe it will come down to a discussion before the match, and I know I'll advocate for picking your trait because it will be one element I build my whole army around. If you look at 40k, players normally have one or two traits their army wants and the player will try to maximize their rolls to get it. I bet if you asked a 40k player if they'd like to just pick their command trait, instead of rolling it, there would be quite a few that would be all about it.

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[The Jabber Tzeentch]

I expect it will default to choosing. As that is acceptable in the rules people likely won't roll for them.

Exception being if a tournament or group decide on making rolling mandatory.

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[Veterannoob]

Depends on use, indeed. Tourneys and events may require roll. Our first game we rolled just to check it out, it felt right. For me personally default will be rolling as I like some/lots of chaos in my miniwargaming, but if my opponent really wants to pick, or we are still trying out Matched Play in our first 20-30 learning curve games, I won't fight it.

[Shane]

Having played 40k, I do not like rolling on a random table. Less random tables the better. 

Having choice is a good thing and will encourage more consideration. Roll on a chart and no one will care for it when list building. Let them pick and they will consider it when list building. 

[Lucio]

Rules say either/or, therefore no one can dictate to you how to do it without coming off as an obnoxious git. They didn't even bother to include an "agree with your opponent beforehand" option.

[daedalus81]

People hate the random tables in 40k.  Let people pick.  Most are equally interesting and some require an army capable of taking advantage of it.

[Veterannoob]

2 hours ago, daedalus81 said:

People hate the random tables in 40k.  Let people pick.  Most are equally interesting and some require an army capable of taking advantage of it.

People also love random tables:) So unless my opponent really feels strongly about picking (and most of my opponents won't) then we roll, or decide to go one way if we both wish to try out  new items while GHB is in its infancy:) 

[daedalus81]

A D66 table is nice.  1D6 or 2D6 can be a little annoying to balance and still make it exciting.

[mmimzie]

Well it's also can make your whole army rather feast or famine. I think causal I'll differ to my opponent but semi-competive and up I'd rather just pick it. 

 

I don't know in both games special character get set warlord traits, but making your own general for your army is always felt lack luster if they had to depend on random tables. 

[Veterannoob]

6 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Well it's also can make your whole army rather feast or famine. I think causal I'll differ to my opponent but semi-competive and up I'd rather just pick it. 

 

I don't know in both games special character get set warlord traits, but making your own general for your army is always felt lack luster if they had to depend on random tables. 

mmmmm, that sounds a bit dramatic to me. Play some games with both methods and see how it goes. But you gotta consider the game event, rules, meta, blah blah

[Swampmist]

Personally, as a chaos player with skaven and daemons, most of the traits don't make sense for me (General, atleast fluffwise, is an ArchWarlock,) so I hope to be able to pick if only for fluff reasons. Similarly, I'd like to pick my "Artifact," if only because my ArchWarlock has a Daemon-weapon, and giving him one as an artifact is the only way to convey it

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, Veterannoob said:

mmmmm, that sounds a bit dramatic to me. Play some games with both methods and see how it goes. But you gotta consider the game event, rules, meta, blah blah

I agree but as we have the option i'm okay with flexible. I've poked at both ways. I mean.... it depends on your army right.... order who cares what you get. Your command abilities are pretty meh (to me). For my death army it's dramatically different. from everyone going form a 6+ to a 5+ ward save to basically nothing. 

 

additionally, if i bring nagash he doesn't pick these because he pretty much has his own command traits and artifacts built in. So he's like a Hero who is a person... Which grrr it make me feel kinda forced to take special characters and for me that just ruins the fluff of the game. I like the special characters being legends that you aspire your army too, and not something i plop on the board and loose in one turn with or something. You know??? But then also it stop me from giving my general his own identity and role.  That's kind of where i come from on the issue, and i understand other aspect.

I think random is kinda more "fun" more... ummm "exciting" like rolling that right one will feel good, but rolling nothing would just sour apples the start of the game a little bit.

 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

People also love random tables:) So unless my opponent really feels strongly about picking (and most of my opponents won't) then we roll, or decide to go one way if we both wish to try out  new items while GHB is in its infancy:) 

I'm not too keen on this idea and hope it doesn't go this way for most as the rule book is almost exactly the opposite.

As per the rulebook:

• Both players choose.

• Or: One player may decide to roll.

• Or: Both players may decide to roll.

Forcing your opponent to do something he doesn't want to against the rules isn't cool.

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[RuneBrush]

Have to agree with you on this, rolling for command traits not only doesn't work fluff wise, but also adds in extra "before game" overhead.  If you've ever played with/against Daemons in 40k you'll know what I mean - every single gift, spell, warlord ability needs rolling for.  It takes forever and because it's not consistent a lot of things end up being forgotten in the midst of the game.  I'm fairly sure that we'll be house ruling a 'pick the one you want' rather than rolling.

[Gharak]

Oh younglings, how I miss the days of D1000 tables from the realms of chaos books, yes your level 5 chaos champion has come to the battle with multicoloured skin, a noxious smell and 3 heads, and yes his second in command was a level 20 Minotaur lord and they lead a might hoard of 5 skaven clanrats. 

The wonderful days when it wasn't all about being the best or beating your opponent in any way you could. 

I'm really looking forward to playing through path to glory with all it's random table goodness. (though it is more that a little watered down for my taste)

[gnaleinad]

I am sorry to hear that you dislike it Mr mmimzie.
All I read from your rant is that by rolling for the command you cannot take advantage of the rules and make the most efficient fighting force.

I firmly support the Random aspect of such bonus, ESPECIALLY in tournaments.
If one was allowed to choose what you wanted you will built your entire force on those choices. Everything is to maximize the effect of your trait or your special weapons. List building is just what you will end up enjoying, not playing the game.

I am a firm believer and supporter of Open and Narrative play. People who like to have fun playing a game.
I fear what Match play will bring.. Because people who love to show off the power of their army is here.

[Swampmist]

Or, like me, you're choosing your trait, and even more-so your Artifacts, for fluff reasons and not to game the system :P.

25 minutes ago, gnaleinad said:

I am sorry to hear that you dislike it Mr mmimzie.
All I read from your rant is that by rolling for the command you cannot take advantage of the rules and make the most efficient fighting force.

I firmly support the Random aspect of such bonus, ESPECIALLY in tournaments.
If one was allowed to choose what you wanted you will built your entire force on those choices. Everything is to maximize the effect of your trait or your special weapons. List building is just what you will end up enjoying, not playing the game.

I am a firm believer and supporter of Open and Narrative play. People who like to have fun playing a game.
I fear what Match play will bring.. Because people who love to show off the power of their army is here.

 

[Leviathus]

Was reading through GW's facebook page and saw a video of  James Hewitt (Studio Writer) was talking about the new Sylvaneth book and made a remark on the command traits for the Sylvaneth. You can just pick and choose to suit your army or roll if you feel like to have something random:

 

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, gnaleinad said:

I am sorry to hear that you dislike it Mr mmimzie.
All I read from your rant is that by rolling for the command you cannot take advantage of the rules and make the most efficient fighting force.

I firmly support the Random aspect of such bonus, ESPECIALLY in tournaments.
If one was allowed to choose what you wanted you will built your entire force on those choices. Everything is to maximize the effect of your trait or your special weapons. List building is just what you will end up enjoying, not playing the game.

I am a firm believer and supporter of Open and Narrative play. People who like to have fun playing a game.
I fear what Match play will bring.. Because people who love to show off the power of their army is here.

First, i don't know what i did to offend you sir. I don't know why you feel the need to say i'm "ranting" or otherways try to cast me in a negative light as though i'm the bane of your hobby. 

 

 

Look man you know what suck for the hobby??? When people try to ****** on other peoples ways to want to play the game. I hope you'll take on a more inclusive attitude toward those in our fun community.

[childoffang]

17 hours ago, mmimzie said:

First, i don't know what i did to offend you sir. I don't know why you feel the need to say i'm "ranting" or otherways try to cast me in a negative light as though i'm the bane of your hobby. 

 

 

Look man you know what suck for the hobby??? When people try to ****** on other peoples ways to want to play the game. I hope you'll take on a more inclusive attitude toward those in our fun community.

 

I think you need to read your original post - second paragraph, first line.  'Personal rant here.'

 

Having briefly read this post and not having no knowledge of you both I don't see why your reply to Leviathus is so extreme and frankly rude. You both have voiced your preferred way of playing the game and reasons for it, maybe they could have been written slightly differently but neither is really worth getting worked up about. In fact I get a similar feel from your original post as I do from Leviathus' - the thought that you will both try your best to get the game played the way you want to play it and while I think people should be more flexible i understand that it's hard to play a game in a way you don't enjoy.

 

The major thing is this kind of post puts people off visiting forums, it's rude, seems to bear little relevance to what is actually going on and makes me question whether anything else you type is worth reading.

[Leviathus]

@childoffang it was actually gnaleinad's posts not mine

[mmimzie]

@childoffang

Thanks for your comment. I suppose your right. I was more jsut triggered by the thought of "people who want to play in a competitive fashion want to make the game not fun." We're grown men playing with plastic figures with little painted fake trees. Heck some of us see shoe boxes with random square holes in them and call it a building. 

As i said in the post you quoted is i don't like it when people put down how others want to play these games. My original rant was more that i'm jazzed that more than likely i wont have to deal with random tables because i think they are silly from a fluff prospective. 

[Nubgan]

Given how much they can affect how an army plays tactically and how you can actually make a list round some of these, I think only a giant neck beard and/or ****** would have a problem just picking these. I know I will prefer it to be picked given how good some of them are.

Like people have mentioned, its one of the worst parts of 40k not being able to pick Warlord traits and Psychic Powers, given how strongly they affect how an entire force composition plays, and I am glad there is the option to pick

[Veterannoob]

On 7/4/2016 at 0:27 AM, mmimzie said:

I agree but as we have the option i'm okay with flexible. I've poked at both ways. I mean.... it depends on your army right.... order who cares what you get. Your command abilities are pretty meh (to me). For my death army it's dramatically different. from everyone going form a 6+ to a 5+ ward save to basically nothing. 

 

additionally, if i bring nagash he doesn't pick these because he pretty much has his own command traits and artifacts built in. So he's like a Hero who is a person... Which grrr it make me feel kinda forced to take special characters and for me that just ruins the fluff of the game. I like the special characters being legends that you aspire your army too, and not something i plop on the board and loose in one turn with or something. You know??? But then also it stop me from giving my general his own identity and role.  That's kind of where i come from on the issue, and i understand other aspect.

I think random is kinda more "fun" more... ummm "exciting" like rolling that right one will feel good, but rolling nothing would just sour apples the start of the game a little bit.

 

Totally understand. I don't mind either way with my opponent as long as we agree. We're still trying out all these new toys so rolling sometime just to see, picking traits others. I do expect most events/tournaments will be rolling (so named characters get consistent at least in not getting any additional ones here) but just playing at store, club, garage, basement, international space station, or Bugman's Brewery (new location now open in Aqshy) we just do what we feel like at the time:)