Malign Portents

[VoodooChileIRL]

39 minutes ago, Blueraven84 said:

Or maybe, just maybe they could throw the current Seraphon background to the trash bin and try to start fresh with brains this time... just a thought. Todays story was very inspiring to me as a old Lizardmen collector.

Hopefully there will be room for both interpretations of them. As someone with no real attachment to WHFB I always liked the concept of the Seraphon being dreamed into existence but I can certainly understand why those who were/are fans of Lizardmen wouldn't find that as appealing.

Would be cool to see concepts like early spawned Seraphon being aggressive translated into the rules. That and what happens long term if the Starmasters do start nodding off.

[Kamose]

5 minutes ago, xking said:

No, they did not.  they are still magic simulcra seraphon made of starlight.  The skink star priest even said starlight coursed through his veins. 

Yep, you're right. Seraphon are Order Daemons in their keywords and their lore. They are summoned by the Slaan and made of magic.

I never understood the gripe with the Seraphon being summoned magical beings and not flesh and blood. Every description of the Slann calls them "godlike" and "master's of magic without equal". 

Taken at face value, why couldn't a "godlike" Slann summon an exact, functioning, identical, and permanent replica of his old Temple City only made of star magic? Slann are the oldest things in the entirety of the game's lore now. Older than the realms. Thousands of years older, even, than the Aelven gods, Tyrion, Teclis, and Malerion. 

Besides, I find it fitting that the "dinosaurs"in AoS are actually extinct. ?

[VoodooChileIRL]

8 minutes ago, Kamose said:

Besides, I find it fitting that the "dinosaurs"in AoS are actually extinct. ?

Life, uh, finds a way.

[Rogue Explorator]

I think there are some sweeping bits of new lore in this story, besides "there are real Seraphon" (which, again, is not as new as many seem to think). Warning, Soulwars first chapter spoilers ahead:

 

The really big one, concerning Death and the Realms at large:

The Nekroquake is killing the stars themself! Combined with the first chapter of Soulwars released in WD we can now say that the Nekroquake/Nagashes Great Work is not just a mass raising of Undead, it really is the culmination of his plan to kill everything and he actually pulled it of, it is just working much more slowly than instantaneous . Nagash wanting to reclaim the stolen Souls? Sigmar seeking a solution to the reforgfing flaws? Those are sideplots. The Mortal Realms and everyone in it is dying and now really everyone has a reason to try stopping Nagash.

 

Concerning Seraphon:

-The Slann seem to be badly affected, at least those still among the stars of Azyr.

-There are spawning pools and we know from ask Grombrindal that Seraphon can "go native" in the Realms.

 

First, this leads me to speculate on the nature of Seraphon. We know that during the end times the Spawning pools where left behind and where irreplacable. However, the Mortal Realms are much richer in usable magic than the world-that-was ever was. It also seems that the Slann are of much greater clarity of thought than they used to be (in WHFB their ongoing mental struggle with Chaos left them a bit demented). This would allow them to recreate the spawning pools, drawing on the Azyrs magical nature. Thus, the star spawned Seraphon are both flesh and blood creatures and "daemons" made of magic. Compared to Stormcast and the Aelves remade from Slaanesh devoured Souls, really not all that weird.

Second, the Seraphon could be forced to abandon their safety among the dying stars and settle the Realms.

Thus taking their spawning pools with them. If I a right, and Seraphon are made from the magic of the Realm they are spawned in, this opens the gate to Seraphon with the other seven Realms in their veins.

 

1 hour ago, xking said:

No, they did not.  they are still magic simulcra seraphon made of starlight.  The skink star priest even said starlight coursed through his veins. 

Do you mean this passage:

"The diminutive creature watched in mounting horror as the blazing lights of the orrery faded and became black as coal, the star-blood that gave them vital life draining away into nothing."

That is the only mention to the effect I have found and the "they" refers not to the Skink, who is a "he" throughout the text

 

No matter their exact nature, I certainly would not call them simulacra, not compared to the original Skinks and Saurus. After all, those where always utterly obedient tools made to serve any purpose the Slann put them to use.

We can see that they can still continue existing without a Slann and have independent though as well.

The only question that remains is what exactly are the Seraphon summoned when the Slann go to the Realms. Those disappear when their master is killed, pointing to "simulacra".(edit: no they do not, no crumbling armies in AoS, thankfully. No idea where I got that particular idea from) But that new generations must be spawned when the Seraphon go to war implies that Slann can not just use the same Seraphon over and over again. This again implies that any Seraphon slain in the Mortal Realms are actually gone for good.

 

45 minutes ago, Kamose said:

Yep, you're right. Seraphon are Order Daemons in their keywords and their lore. They are summoned by the Slaan and made of magic.

I never understood the gripe with the Seraphon being summoned magical beings and not flesh and blood. Every description of the Slann calls them "godlike" and "master's of magic without equal". 

Taken at face value, why couldn't a "godlike" Slann summon an exact, functioning, identical, and permanent replica of his old Temple City only made of star magic? Slann are the oldest things in the entirety of the game's lore now. Older than the realms. Thousands of years older, even, than the Aelven gods, Tyrion, Teclis, and Malerion. 

Besides, I find it fitting that the "dinosaurs"in AoS are actually extinct. ?

I think the issue is less one of believability and more that it makes the non-Slann Seraphon sort of boring and hard to sympathise or identify with. Not a problem if it is just the visuals or the Slann that draws you to the army.

But I think there are many aspects of the old Lizardman lore, the quirky cute character of Skinks, the juxtaposition of utterly feral with cold logic and obedient service to a highly advanced civilisation in the Saurus, the image of ancient temple cities filled with dinosaurs, that just become lost when the Seraphon are nothing but vestiges, pure magical constructs whose personality is merely an illusion.

The way Seraphon have been portrayed so far just eliminates a lot of a appeal that draws people to them initially and leaves very little space for hobbyists to tell tell their own story with them.

As, I have said, I think this is more of a clarification than an outright retcon. I will see if can actually back up my claim, but first I will have to reread the Battletome, it has been a while since my first reading.

[HorticulusTGA]

@Rogue Explorator, @Dragobeth, @RuneBrush

Those amazing conversions are from the French Blog Dè Kouzes (home of, amongst others artists, GW designer Maxime Pastourel, father of the current Death Guard !) :

http://leskouzes.blogspot.com/2017/07/steves-seraphon.html

@Kamose  did you read the story ? Seraphon are now flesh and blood, birthed into spawning pools aboard their Temple-ships.

It's a retcon, like the Brimstone Peninsula being a part of the "Great Parch of Aqshy" (from the AOS Core Book) instead of the "Ashlands" (from RGW : Godbeasts). 

@xking Well, the story does not mention that ? The "star-blood" mention is about the stars being slowly destroyed by Nagash's magic. 

Anyway, the way GW envisions Age of Sigmar and "your dudes", there always will be room for both visions. Now, it's just that the later (and frankly, way cooler IMO) version is about true flying aliens from the stars, not celestial deamons made of energy (a niche already taken by Stormcast Eternals : angelic being, made of both flesh and celestial energy - the later showing with too much reforging, cf. "Lightning-gheist"....). 

-----

I have to say I 'm glad with this new take on the Seraphon narrative. It's another good steps toward a more "realistic" AOS (the crazy high fantasy part is totally still present, just read the description of the interior of the Temple-ship !).

I always found the "I can just dream an army into being" quite bland and, well, illogical. Why then didn't the Slaan created endless hordes of Seraphon to take the Allpoints, for example ?

Even for Chaos Daemons things are more "logical" : you can have an endless stream of Daemons and chaotic energy pouring into reality, unless you cut the door / close the Warp rift. Their endless "reservoir" of energy is the very stuff of another dimension. 

 Lizardmen had a cool "magitek" inspiration in WFB 8th Ed. and the End Times. Also, the Seraphon Battletome was quite poor in term of fluff, but had some cool artworks, some fitting the "magitek" side of them instead of the "remembered dreams" aspect : the "Temple-ship" (p. page 9), the "teleportation beam" (≠ not the Slaan creating them) pages 5-6, also 22-23 form the Blades of Khorne BT, etc.

I guess will have another view on this question in the new Core Book Seraphon's presentation, anyway !  

 

[amysrevenge]

I like it - GW are sort of leaning in to the duality that has been there since the battletome - at times the Seraphon seem to be mere figments of the Slann imagination, at other times they seem to be flesh and blood and "real".  They are neither, and both.  That's reinforced here (the "real" part is emphasized more than it was in the battletome, but the duality is still there), and I like that it isn't resolved.

[Dragobeth]

@HorticulusTGA Thank you for the info.

I need new Seraphon models with that "magitek" (just thinking about FF style technology mixed with lizardman makes me smile) or I will end up buying necrons and doing that mix myself too.

What if the first generations of Seraphon (since the fall of the world that was) were "remembered" by the Slann and then that "first generation" started preparing new generations of real Seraphon? That could make this new info not a retcon, just a continuation.

[BrownDog]

[amysrevenge]

Yup, they are both real and imaginary, and yet somehow neither.  Mysterious and unknowable.

[HorticulusTGA]

@BrownDog

1. It would fit with the new fluff. They are called down from the stars, i.e. from their space ships. See the artworks I mentioned above, representing just that. 

2. That's old fluff now : today's story states otherwise : https://malignportents.com/story/dying-star/

"There was a deep grinding sound before the thunderous roar of rushing liquid. The golden wheels began to spin, and water gushed out in frothing torrents. Writhing shapes could be seen within the deluge, the protean forms from which the armies of the stars would grow.

The warm air became humid, and then swelteringly hot. Maq’uat watched the pool bubble and boil with new life. 

A chorus of shrill screams filled the air, frenzied and agonised, spilling forth from half-formed mouths. Blood stained the waters."

Also, as we all know lex posterior derogat priori  IMO it's a proper retcon (well, as @amysrevenge said above, AOS yourdudeism let you have place for both types of Seraphon anyway  )

[Rogue Explorator]

28 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

I like it - GW are sort of leaning in to the duality that has been there since the battletome - at times the Seraphon seem to be mere figments of the Slann imagination, at other times they seem to be flesh and blood and "real".  They are neither, and both.  That's reinforced here (the "real" part is emphasized more than it was in the battletome, but the duality is still there), and I like that it isn't resolved.

Yeah, I am currently on my reread of the BT and there really is a lot of lore supporting the portrayal in "Dying Star", about Seraphon living in an unreachable empire among the stars, ever ready to be called to do battle in the Mortal Realms.

Only the constant mentions of the Slann having "remembered" their servants back into existence really seems to contradict this.

Bbut I think it just might not be as direct and esoteric has imiagine from those words alone. Had there never been spawning pools or Lizardmen, Slann could be said to have "invented" or "developed" Seraphon into existence. But the Slann do not develope or invent. Freed from the mental strain of struggling against the drak gods, as they did in Lustria and with the vast magic power of Azyr at their hands, they would have remembered the teachings of the Old Ones alowing them to create Spawning Pools that draw on that power. And in that way, they would have "remembered" Seraphon into existence, by recalling the knowledge they had once lost. And of course, it is quite possible that the collective memory of the Slann is what drives the workings of these new Spawning Pools, which would be another interpretation of the Slann remembering Seraphon into existence.

Of course, that does not mean Seraphon where always meant to have Spawning Pools in AoS. It could be that BT Seraphon was intentionally written ambigously, with GW going full ahead with Lizard shaped mind bullets had that idea been better received, but as it clearly has not been, now enabling them to backpedal to Seraphon being far more traditional.

 

That is leaving aside all the jazz about the true nature of Seraphon being "so far beyond mortal ken it would fry our brain", which is a bit of a kop out, but also a nice little bit background narrative and excuse for players to go into all sorts of wild direction with their own collection.

The important takeaway for hobbyists is that we now know that we can have skinks and saurus with a personal history, individual personality and a life they can loose at stake and even permanent Seraphon dwelling in the Realms (say, on a powerful nexus of magic that can not be allowed toi fall into the hands of Chaos); without the lore contradicting us.

 

I have to admit, that is something scyrocketing my interest in the army.

 

2 minutes ago, xking said:

If they remove the daemon keyword, then I will believe you.

There is no contradiction here. They are beings made from the stuff of stars from beyond the bounds of the Mortal Realms nonetheless, just at the same time as they are physically existent creatures born in Spawning Pools. I think they can keep the daemon keyword (though really, they do not have to) and still be more than some simulacra that just pop into existence from a memory.

[shinros]

1 hour ago, BrownDog said:

I was just going to post this image again, but it seems someone beat me to it!

[Nullius]

On 6/2/2018 at 3:11 AM, ZaelART said:

That would be incredible.... INCREDIBLE.

But in The End Times we found out The Green Knight was  King not-Aurthur and The Lady of the Lake was actually Lileath, the elven godess of the moon and the eventual creator of the Mortal Realms. 

[Nullius]

In answer to the previous question: The reason humans follow Nagash is because he is powerful, unrelenting, utterly consistent, and - in his own unfeeling way- Nagash is fair. He even listens to the prayers of his servants, although he often answers them in unforeseen and terrible ways. Nagash is a little bit like the god of the Old Testament. Vengeful, petty, spiteful, but just and quick to rush to his people’s defense with awe inspiring displays of power. For the people of Shyish -who are a hardy, taciturn, often obsessively traditional, and grim-faced lot who value fearlessness in the face of death- the god of death with his uncompromising tyranny and demands for fealty, and offers of security is a relatable Figure. People in terrible circumstances often put heir faith in tyrants and murderers. Nagash is a God his fleshy and bony followers fear, dread even, but also understand and need.

[shinros]

1 hour ago, Nullius said:

In answer to the previous question: The reason humans follow Nagash is because he is powerful, unrelenting, utterly consistent, and - in his own unfeeling way- Nagash is fair. He even listens to the prayers of his servants, although he often answers them in unforeseen and terrible ways. Nagash is a little bit like the god of the Old Testament. Vengeful, petty, spiteful, but just and quick to rush to his people’s defense with awe inspiring displays of power. For the people of Shyish -who are a hardy, taciturn, often obsessively traditional, and grim-faced lot who value fearlessness in the face of death- the god of death with his uncompromising tyranny and demands for fealty, and offers of security is a relatable Figure. People in terrible circumstances often put heir faith in tyrants and murderers. Nagash is a God his fleshy and bony followers fear, dread even, but also understand and need.

Pretty much it goes back to what josh reynolds said in ask fm. Since I am on my computer I can post this.  ALSO it's his opinion GW can turn around and change it. 

User:What attracts people to cause them to follow nagash? The normal joe's, not the evil necromancer in a tower? Reading novels it seems the normal people have a huge amount of faith in nagash. Does nagash handle his faithful differently compared to sigmar? Shyish is a constant warzone yet they hang on.

Josh:Well, the most obvious answer might be that Nagash never really abandoned the field, the way Alarielle or Sigmar did. He was beaten, and retreated, but was still a very tangible presence in his realm, in a way that the other gods weren't. Too, there's a sort of grim inevitability to Nagash that the other gods lack - he's death, and you can't kill death. You can delay it, but it will eventually catch up to you.

User:How do the mortal's of shyish worship nagash? Would they be more than happy to become undead? Viewing it as something greater than their mortal coils?

Josh:In different ways, in different places, I imagine. Some might yearn to be undead, others don't. Some might co-exist with the dead, in a form of ancestor worship, while others might seal their dead away, to be forever undisturbed ('render unto Nagash').

 

[Nullius]

4 minutes ago, shinros said:

Pretty much it goes back to what josh reynolds said in ask fm. Since I am on my computer I can post this.  ALSO it's his opinion GW can turn around and change it. 

 

 

I love this passage from undying King. Really explains the nature of the gods/incarnates: (and also suggests Nagash gained something of the natures of all the death gods -Morr, or the Death Gods of Khemri- that he consumed to become THE god of death. All of them are aspects of him now. The one we see on the tabletop is just his war-form, just like Allarielle. 

[shinros]

4 minutes ago, Nullius said:

I love this passage from undying King. Really explains the nature of the gods/incarnates: (and also suggests Nagash gained something of the natures of all the death gods -Morr, or the Death Gods of Khemri- that he consumed to become THE god of death. All of them are aspects of him now. The one we see on the tabletop is just his war-form, just like Allarielle. 

Yeah I also held the view that the Nagash we see is his chief/warform. Reading the sample chapter for soul wars I get the inkling that Nagash acted somewhat differently in the age of myth, we see this in the pantheon short story. 

Edit:I like to think that the aspects were more in use during the peace time compared to now. I also recall Josh has said the aspects are like "breathing" for the god. They don't micromanage them in any way. 

[Nullius]

3 minutes ago, shinros said:

Yeah I also held the view that the Nagash we see is his chief/warform. Reading the sample chapter for soul wars I get the inkling that Nagash acted somewhat differently in the age of myth, we see this in the pantheon short story. 

Edit:I like to think that the aspects were more in use during the peace time compared to now. I also recall Josh has said the aspects are like "breathing" for the god. They don't micromanage them in any way. 

Which makes way more sense. Neither the power-hungry megalomaniacal genocidal Nagash of the old world (a younger brasher Nagash Lol), or the current Mad God of Death Nagash would seem to be an especially likely Ally for Grimnir or Sigmar or Allarielle. And the agreement that the souls of the dead in all the realms would belong to him until such time as the dissipate into nothingness seems like something they would neither offer to Nagash, nor something he would accept in his current form. There is some suggestion in the fluff that when Archeaon shattered Nagash, some part of him was broken. That now he is bitter and insane with rage, but that it was not always so. 

[shinros]

1 hour ago, Nullius said:

Which makes way more sense. Neither the power-hungry megalomaniacal genocidal Nagash of the old world (a younger brasher Nagash Lol), or the current Mad God of Death Nagash would seem to be an especially likely Ally for Grimnir or Sigmar or Allarielle. And the agreement that the souls of the dead in all the realms would belong to him until such time as the dissipate into nothingness seems like something they would neither offer to Nagash, nor something he would accept in his current form. There is some suggestion in the fluff that when Archeaon shattered Nagash, some part of him was broken. That now he is bitter and insane with rage, but that it was not always so. 

Well yes, I actually did not like Nagash in his originally trilogy since he was just a mad cackling necromancer, but what sold me to the character and showed he had nuance was when he appeared in the  sigmar series when he showed sigmar his vision of the world. He genuinely believed if everyone was undead or followed his will to the letter there would be peace.  Looking at AOS and how he acts so far that hasn't changed and what I find interesting is in a weird macabre way he is right since essentially going by the soul wars sample and malign portents the chaos gods fear what Nagash is going to do. 

[Nullius]

5 minutes ago, shinros said:

Well yes, I actually did not like Nagash in his originally trilogy since he was just a mad cackling necromancer, but what sold me to the character and showed he had nuance was when he appeared in sigmar series when he showed sigmar his vision of the world. He genuinely believed if everyone was undead or followed his will to the letter there would be peace.  Looking at AOS and how he acts so far that hasn't changed and what I find interesting is in a weird macabre way he is right since essentially going by the soul wars sample and malign portents the chaos gods fear what Nagash is going to do. 

Speaking of the Soul Wars novel, I also really liked the depiction of the direct attention of the Chaos gods. They were recognizably the three (currently at large) gods of chaos, but they were also horrifying, incomprehensible lovecraftian horrors from beyond the cosmos. Enormous beyond any concept of size and all gibberring, bellowing, screeching lunatics. Not gods at all in the sense of Sigmar or Nagash, but rather chaos gods as we know them from 40k. Something horrifying and beyond our imagination. 

[shinros]

20 minutes ago, Nullius said:

Speaking of the Soul Wars novel, I also really liked the depiction of the direct attention of the Chaos gods. They were recognizably the three (currently at large) gods of chaos, but they were also horrifying, incomprehensible lovecraftian horrors from beyond the cosmos. Enormous beyond any concept of size and all gibberring, bellowing, screeching lunatics. Not gods at all in the sense of Sigmar or Nagash, but rather chaos gods as we know them from 40k. Something horrifying and beyond our imagination. 

I was quite sure they were all there, I recall that Nagash somehow smelled incense and the rattling of chains. But my favourite bit is how they all stopped laughing at once. All of those cosmic horrors stopped just for a moment because the one they were belittling is actually a problem now. 

[HorticulusTGA]

3 hours ago, shinros said:

I was just going to post this image again, but it seems someone beat me to it!

Well, with the new Malign Portents story, it seems its actually retconned now : https://malignportents.com/story/dying-star/ 

To repost the precise passage, describing the Temple-ship's spawning pool : 

"There was a deep grinding sound before the thunderous roar of rushing liquid. The golden wheels began to spin, and water gushed out in frothing torrents. Writhing shapes could be seen within the deluge, the protean forms from which the armies of the stars would grow.

The warm air became humid, and then swelteringly hot. Maq’uat watched the pool bubble and boil with new life. 

A chorus of shrill screams filled the air, frenzied and agonised, spilling forth from half-formed mouths. Blood stained the waters."

It's IMO in direct contradiction with Grombrindal's answer "they start as creature of memory, celestial energy and magic".  Also, I'm more inclined to believe the up-to-date, Studio-based AOS fluff than that old Dwarf's ramblings

@Nullius and @shinros about Nagash, one must remember he has "just" took form again after his defeat by Archaon, and had to suffer the soul-thefts of many other entities.. So he is now angrier than usual - though he still have his "kinder" aspect, as seen here for example : https://malignportents.com/story/grim-deliverance/

Nagash. Gosma had heard that name as a child, in the bedtime stories that had been told to frighten her. 

‘Nagash can end the torments of these people,’ said the pale woman. ‘Nagash can end your own nightmare. He offers his help to you freely.’

The woman extended her hand down to Gosma. Gosma took a deep breath and looked around her. No one in the packed hall had noticed her ordeal; they were all too busy enduring their own woes and maladies.

‘Will you accept Nagash’s help?’ asked the pale woman, her hand still outstretched. Gosma took hold of the woman’s hand and allowed herself to be pulled up from the ground.

[shinros]

10 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Well, with the new Malign Portents story, it seems its actually retconned now : https://malignportents.com/story/dying-star/ 

To repost the precise passage, describing the Temple-ship's spawning pool : 

"There was a deep grinding sound before the thunderous roar of rushing liquid. The golden wheels began to spin, and water gushed out in frothing torrents. Writhing shapes could be seen within the deluge, the protean forms from which the armies of the stars would grow.

The warm air became humid, and then swelteringly hot. Maq’uat watched the pool bubble and boil with new life. 

A chorus of shrill screams filled the air, frenzied and agonised, spilling forth from half-formed mouths. Blood stained the waters."

It's IMO in direct contradiction with Grombrindal's answer "they start as creature of memory, celestial energy and magic".  Also, I'm more inclined to believe the up-to-date, Studio-based AOS fluff than that old Dwarf's ramblings

@Nullius and @shinros about Nagash, one must remember he has "just" took form again after his defeat by Archaon, and had to suffer the soul-thefts of many other entities.. So he is now angrier than usual - though he still have his "kinder" aspect, as seen here for example : https://malignportents.com/story/grim-deliverance/

Nagash. Gosma had heard that name as a child, in the bedtime stories that had been told to frighten her. 

‘Nagash can end the torments of these people,’ said the pale woman. ‘Nagash can end your own nightmare. He offers his help to you freely.’

The woman extended her hand down to Gosma. Gosma took a deep breath and looked around her. No one in the packed hall had noticed her ordeal; they were all too busy enduring their own woes and maladies.

‘Will you accept Nagash’s help?’ asked the pale woman, her hand still outstretched. Gosma took hold of the woman’s hand and allowed herself to be pulled up from the ground.

Personally what I took from our old dwarf is that no one understands how the process works. 

We have never seen inside the temple ships, in the battle tome seraphon are organised into constellations many theorised(I personally believed and I recall bottle thought this as well) that they did not live in "actual" stars but the constellations were essentially temple ships or formations. What the story did is clarify.

Essentially they still live in "space" who knows the slaan might of conjured the pools from memory. The whole point is that we don't really understand the process of how they are born or what the seraphon truly are. 

Edit: @Nullius @HorticulusTGAI agree with you on Nagash's "kinder" aspects, it's just that we are not really going to see them much when he has just reformed again and is angry at everyone. One small tidbit is that reading the first chapter of soul wars that enslaved spirits are truly criminals and Nagash changed their forms as twisted form of justice. I think GW are pushing that considering the recent article.  Plus the nagash we see generally is more his "militant" side.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/12/12th-junedesign-insights-the-nighthauntgw-homepage-post-4/

Finally, the Nighthaunt provided a chance for our loremasters to delve into Nagash’s personality and explore just how this god has changed during his time in the Mortal Realms. In Legions of Nagash, the militant side of the Death God was explored through examining his armies, while the Nighthaunt shed light on his twisted sense of justice – or petty cruelty. These souls were not twisted by natural means, but by the direct intervention of Nagash himself, with the Great Necromancer finding a flicker of fulfilment in meting out punishments to those who thought death would be an escape…

[Nullius]

6 minutes ago, shinros said:

I was quite sure they were all there, I recall that Nagash somehow smelled incense and the rattling of chains. But my favourite bit is how they all stopped laughing at once. All of those cosmic horrors stopped just for a moment because the one they were belittling is actually a problem now. 

Haha maybe. I just took it as their attentions being fleeting. They were gone as quickly as they’d arrived. That sort of thing. Afteral the mortal realms are a mere bauble to the gods of chaos.

[HorticulusTGA]

1 minute ago, shinros said:

Personally what I took from our old dwarf is that no one understands how the process works. 

We have never seen inside the temple ships, in the battle tome seraphon are organised into constellations many theorised(I personally believed and I recall bottle thought this as well) that they did not live in "actual" stars but the constellations were essentially temple ships or formations. What the story did is clarify.

Essentially they still live in "space" who knows the slaan might of conjured the pools from memory. The whole point is that we don't really understand the process of how they are born or what the seraphon truly are. 

Yes indeed ! Also, the process described here is maybe not the same for all Slann's servants. 

I liked it because it was more "grounded" than the BT's fluff, and was based upon the End Time lore of Lizardmen on flying pyramids.

Anyway I really like the Serphon (or maybe more the Slann Starmasters) because they are a mysterious race from space (also from the past) ; they have a very alien feel to them, like the Engineer of, well, the Aliens movies (or the Scientology / pop culture conceptions of how life came to earth : via extraterrestrial life forms).