Malign Portents

[Kugane]

7 hours ago, Killax said:

That and while GW is certainly aware of its IP there is also still much more breathing room within AoS as 40K for example, there are litterly hundreds of 3rd party 40K sales, there are much fewer for AoS and a prime reason for that is also because its newer.

As to why Brets and TK where removed, much remains unknown. Though I do not think they will suddenly return them with Malign Portents. Another reason could be that GW just deemed them too historical fantasy inspired. Brettonia had tons of French influences and Tomb Kings had tons of Egyptian influences. While both certainly had aspects that where original I think they just wanted to move away from the knights of the round table or mummy vibes.

Orcs and goblins (some) are indeed Tolkien influenced in terms of lore for WFB but their design and the lines that do remain really are rather unique to GW. The big green concept is very much claimed by GW for quite some years now. A line that remains which does suprise me are Beastmen, then again their look is minotaurs but GW is one of the few to ever create a whole army for that game. While especially Brettonia has many designs simply picked from historical miniatures. The concept of all skeleton Tomb Kings is also less unique as the concept of "a house of horrors" being an army, Vampire, Dire Wolve, Zombie, Undead and all. 

That's actually a point I had not considered about the historical fantasy influence being scrapped, you might be onto something there. I think when you watch  movies or play games, especially fantasy of any kind, you'll quickly see that everything is over the top in terms of special effects and size, and a lot less "realistic" fantasy where you have a world which is similar to ours, but differs in a few key elements. Perhaps they want to push AOS in a similar direction, where everything seems as if it is from a different planet rather than a world similar to earth and its limitations.

Somehow a part of me would have preferred  the old warhammer world and story telling, it seemed more graspable, but perhaps that just isn't spectacular enough for the new generation of gamers!

[Kugane]

3 hours ago, Tzaangor Management said:

With the Tomb Kings in particular and to a lesser extent Bretonnia, I believe their firm rooting in our world, rather than the World That Was, plays a large part in their lines being discontinued. As someone with very little knowledge of the previous lore and essentially coming fresh to Age of Sigmar, the Tomb Kings always made me wonder how Egyptian skeletons had made it to to another world. Obviously the answer is Stargates, but that doesn't help me suspend my disbelief and only succeeds in pulling me back to Earth.

The Egyptian theme is more jarring to me than the Knights of Bretonnia, or the foot-soldiers of the Empire, probably because they are such staples of Western fantasy.  This reveals a lot of my own bias, but I suspect it is not uncommon for Games Workshop customer to view their products through the prism of Western fantasy literature . I am sure, as has been suggested above, that there are a number of reasons for certain lines being cut, but as someone effectively new to the game that has not kept up with the lore, the Tomb Kings look strange and out of place to me. They seem to belong more in the mythology of our world, rather than a setting seeking to break free from the more traditional Fantasy tropes. 

I think, like my previous comment, while these are staples in western fantasy, the trend is shifting. People are over-exposed to all these fantasy settings, special effects, over the top stories, especially with the whole super hero boom going on, 1 marvel/DC movie being pushed out after another. I think a lot of people, especially the younger generation, needs a much stronger impulse then old style fantasy can provide.  I may be mistaken, but I don't think even AMAZING fantasy like the Lord of the Rings is that popular anymore with the newer generation of consumers. I can only guess that Games Workshop wants to follow that trend and just give us over the top stuff, like Stormcast Eternals that boom out of the sky and Khorne that bathes in blood and skulls.

[Davariel]

5 hours ago, Rogue Explorator said:

My google-fu is weak at the moment and I can not find the exact release dates of the kits I am discussing (Sphynx, Tomb Guard and Nekropolis Knights), nor the dates of comparable units that survived the transition. But I do know that Tomb Kings where the only army to get any plastic kits from the 8th Edition time axed.

That's not true actually, Warriors of Chaos lost the Forsaken kit as well - god knows why, they were very modern and gorgeous models that fit in AoS just fine. I can only think it was something to do with terrible rules leading to bad sales. 

I actually suspect that bad sales had more to do with the discontiuning of the Tomb Kings as well than most would admit - while dated models probably played some part, there are plenty of really old and ugly models that are somehow still around (zombies, chaos marauders, bat swarms, need I go on...). Likewise the IP argument always falls a little flat to me - sure, TK weren't the most original thing in the world, but they were miles more original than the shambling hordes and gothic horror of the Vampire Counts. Heck, the most unique looking things in GA Death are probably the end times releases, which are a fusion of Tomb King and Vampire aesthetics! Makes you wonder how far GW planned ahead with regards to death...

It's just a hunch, but I suspect if interest in Tomb Kings had been as high in 8th ed as it was after the first compendiums dropped, they'd still be around

[Killax]

Well I think there could have been room for it but certainly more kits could eventually be cut.

Those forsaken will not be missed though, they are really ugly 'new' models. Dont even know why they where this bad.

[Menkeroth]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

Somehow a part of me would have preferred  the old warhammer world and story telling, it seemed more graspable, but perhaps that just isn't spectacular enough for the new generation of gamers!

This is not true. 

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

I can only guess that Games Workshop wants to follow that trend and just give us over the top stuff, like Stormcast Eternals that boom out of the sky and Khorne that bathes in blood and skulls.

All these superheroes are older than even LotR, and they were always popular. Also AoS is DnD made manifest like in good old days of old GW and DnD is old. And DnD is a very over-the-top. Nothing new at all. 

[Lysandestolpe]

43 minutes ago, Killax said:

Well I think there could have been room for it but certainly more kits could eventually be cut.

Those forsaken will not be missed though, they are really ugly 'new' models. Dont even know why they where this bad.

Wow! Those are some boring sculpts. I must have missed these on purpose...

[someone2040]

To be fair, you can create a lot more interesting poses when you aren't constrainted by having to rank up.

Those are probably about as dynamic as mutating chaos warriors can get in a game where chaos warriors were pretty snug on their 25mm square bases.

 

As for Malign Portents. Super interested to find out what's going on with it. A new boxed set would be super cool for the game, and a great way to launch a new Death faction. Just hoping that we also see the expansion of the Deathrattle faction as well as a new faction for Death in the near future.

[Rogue Explorator]

1 hour ago, Davariel said:

That's not true actually, Warriors of Chaos lost the Forsaken kit as well - god knows why, they were very modern and gorgeous models that fit in AoS just fine. I can only think it was something to do with terrible rules leading to bad sales.

You got me there, Forsaken are indeed an eigth edition multipart plastic set (younger than the TK sets, I believe as well) that got cut. So there is a precedent outside of TK.

Pity to, while ranked up they look like they belong to an entirely different era, that is essentially a "My Chaos Bitzbox" starter set

 

20 minutes ago, Kugane said:

I think, like my previous comment, while these are staples in western fantasy, the trend is shifting. People are over-exposed to all these fantasy settings, special effects, over the top stories, especially with the whole super hero boom going on, 1 marvel/DC movie being pushed out after another. I think a lot of people, especially the younger generation, needs a much stronger impulse then old style fantasy can provide.  I may be mistaken, but I don't think even AMAZING fantasy like the Lord of the Rings is that popular anymore with the newer generation of consumers. I can only guess that Games Workshop wants to follow that trend and just give us over the top stuff, like Stormcast Eternals that boom out of the sky and Khorne that bathes in blood and skulls.

Sorry, I ended up writing some big rambling mess. I even asked myself if I should post it, but maybe you (or anybody) might find it interesting. I tried to clean it up, so I hope its comfortable to read (writing has been giving me issues for some time now, sort of sickness related I am afraid).

For the record, I favor neither low nor high fantasy in general, but I do like Age of Sigmar more than Warhammer Fantasy (and I like Warhammer Fantasy, I pretty much grew up with it).

 

My basic thought on the prevalence of high fantasy is:

 

I think it is as much the creators as the audience.

 

 

I will take GW my primary example here, since it is what I assume we are most familiar with:

 

GW makes miniatures and wants to keep making minis. They need to be at least somewhat new and fresh compared to what has come before and often bigger and fancier as well.

This works well in Warhammer 40k. That is a huge universe that can always be expanded upon. In the lore it has long established creatures, personalities and warmachines of a scope that the designers and manufacturing process is just starting to put into reality and yet a lot of empty space that never mentioned new creations of equivalent scope can be dropped in from.

A traditional fantasy or low fantasy world just does not offer that scope of expansion. The lore of Warhammer Fantasy was already heavily straining under the expansions it had been getting in its last years, creations like the Cellestial Hurricanum, the Scycutter, Engineers on Mechanical Horses and such already being rejected by a sizable segment of the player base.

It is certainly anecdotal evidence, but in the years before the Endtimes I have only met Warhammer Fantasy players that played one older edition or another, with mates from way back, rejecting not just the rules updates, but also any new lore or miniature that came out after their personal sweet spot. But I digress.

Point is, if you have a living franchise and it is the basis of your business or occupation, you need room for constant expansion and ideally a setting whose fanbase will accept such expansions. Meaning the setting needs to be such, that constant expansions do not alter or disrupt the style and charm that originally drew the fans to the setting and franchise.

The obvious place where this constant expansion is a needed, that comes to mind for us, on the customer/fan side of the creator/recipient relationship, is money. You just don't turn a profit on your ninth redesign of Skeleton Warriors and Men-at-Arms, as well as an all new release of "human warriors with sword and shield whose slightly different armor design is very exciting when you know the lore really well".

But there is also a need for constant expansion for other reasons, such as creativity, innovation and fan engagement.

You won't really keep your designers and artists engaged and motivated putting them onto the ninth redesign of Skeletons and men at arms and that all new release of "human warriors with sword and shield and oh you just read what they are to sentences back".

Nor are you likely to breach into new and improved production processes, as GW has done repeatedly in the last decades, doing all that.

Nor do you keep your fanbase excited to follow developement and generate lots of communication and in the process engage one another as well. It is easy to put of Buzz as a pure marketing matter, but in social hobbies like wargaming or tabletop RPGs, buzz is important for the base as well. If you are into any part of our hobby and not content with a stable and long established play group (if you have one, you are blessed), you will want to discuss it online, look at cool paint and modeling blogs, get advice on your own painting and modelling, meet other players, go to tournays or open play events and play games. Buzz helps generate all that, Buzz keeps the hobby going, without buzz the stable and long established playgroups are alone in a sea of no wargaming.

 

 

Does this automatically make for an inherently more compelling or objectively better setting? Nope. A Settings own merrit is based on entirely different qualities.

Does this then do the opposite? Does it automatically make for an inherently less compelling or objectively worse setting? No. I think none of this stands in the way of fulfilling the qualities of a good setting.

 

But creators, wether a huge company like EA, a niche marked leader like GW or even many a hobbyist just worldbuilding for himself have propably come to prefer the greater scope, more high fantasy, more epic setting because they can just keep expanding them, where the smaller and less fantastic settings eventually put creators in the situation where there just is not enough space left, unless they change the setting so much as to drive of all fans that where drawn to the franchises original feel.

 

A sort of consolation is: The nice thing about low fantasy and scale settings is that they can be complete. And once complete they never go away, Warhammer fantasy ended at a point where it was perfect for adaptions.

Barring the non-empire human lands (that are entirely other can of worms I'd really rather not open here), Warhammer fantasy is complete, you can create a massive three part strategy game series like Total War:Warhammer is turning out to be, based on only what is there, no new lore, geography or visual design necessary. And they propably still will not get around to all the material. You can adapt it for a RPG or RPG campaign at any point of its timescale and have plenty of source material to draw on. And of course, if you want to play a wargame in it, there are eight different rulesets to choose from, with loads of optional expansions. Only the miniatures you'd need will eventually be all out of print.

Likewhise, when G.R.R. Martin gets around to finishing the last books, the world of a Song of Fire and Ice is complete, there is little point in expanding it, but you could adapt it again and again and again.

That is sort of the thing. High scope and high fantasy settings are great for ongoing living settings, low fantasy and more self contained settings are great for adaptions or for a creation you want to see finished in a single series (be it books, videogames, a TRPG Campaign).

 

I think the ongoing franchises are often more visible and generate more venue, even though I venture the actual fanbases of either style are actually pretty evenly distributed (with by far not all people that follow fantasy in some form favoring either one or the other style).

Low fantasy settings may not always be so visible, but that does not mean they are not there or are not apreciated. Song of Fire and Ice has made a slow march from rather obscure favorite to propably the biggest and most successful Fantasy franchise of its time and at its craziest it is propably still lower fantasy than the Old World, so there is also that.

[Tzaangor Management]

2 hours ago, Kugane said:

I think, like my previous comment, while these are staples in western fantasy, the trend is shifting. People are over-exposed to all these fantasy settings, special effects, over the top stories, especially with the whole super hero boom going on, 1 marvel/DC movie being pushed out after another. I think a lot of people, especially the younger generation, needs a much stronger impulse then old style fantasy can provide.  I may be mistaken, but I don't think even AMAZING fantasy like the Lord of the Rings is that popular anymore with the newer generation of consumers. I can only guess that Games Workshop wants to follow that trend and just give us over the top stuff, like Stormcast Eternals that boom out of the sky and Khorne that bathes in blood and skulls.

I think you're probably right @Kugane and I had somehow missed the point @Killax had made earlier in the thread, which was almost exactly the same as the one I was making... 

It'll be interesting to see how fast this shift happens, or, indeed, whether it happens at all. It's only with Tolkein, JK Rowling and George RR Martin that Fantasy in general has made much of on impact on mainstream cinema and tv. All of these have been fairly traditional in terms of setting (obviously Harry Potter doesn't exactly fit the Tolkein trope), so it would be interesting to see whether anyone can blow that apart by making Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive for example.

Also, interestingly... maybe... I hadn't considered the WHFB setting to be Low Fantasy before. I think that's probably the standard problem with labels meaning different things for different people, but worlds with walking rats, lizardmen, Orcs, Elves, Dwarves and Daemons pop into the High Fantasy box in my head. Not really making a point, but in my mind WHFB and AOS are similar in terms of level of fantasy, but Age of Sigmar seems less traditional. 

All slightly off topic, so, I'm thinking Malign Portents is definitely going to be a death release and I think we'll see the expansion of the Death Rattle army. The artwork in the videos really echos the Shadespire artwork and the Sepulchral Guard seem too good to be a one off (phew, saved it ).

[Kugane]

7 hours ago, Tzaangor Management said:

I think you're probably right @Kugane and I had somehow missed the point @Killax had made earlier in the thread, which was almost exactly the same as the one I was making... 

It'll be interesting to see how fast this shift happens, or, indeed, whether it happens at all. It's only with Tolkein, JK Rowling and George RR Martin that Fantasy in general has made much of on impact on mainstream cinema and tv. All of these have been fairly traditional in terms of setting (obviously Harry Potter doesn't exactly fit the Tolkein trope), so it would be interesting to see whether anyone can blow that apart by making Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive for example.

Also, interestingly... maybe... I hadn't considered the WHFB setting to be Low Fantasy before. I think that's probably the standard problem with labels meaning different things for different people, but worlds with walking rats, lizardmen, Orcs, Elves, Dwarves and Daemons pop into the High Fantasy box in my head. Not really making a point, but in my mind WHFB and AOS are similar in terms of level of fantasy, but Age of Sigmar seems less traditional. 

All slightly off topic, so, I'm thinking Malign Portents is definitely going to be a death release and I think we'll see the expansion of the Death Rattle army. The artwork in the videos really echos the Shadespire artwork and the Sepulchral Guard seem too good to be a one off (phew, saved it ).

I think when WHF started out it pretty much was high fantasy though. But it seems that has shifted away somewhere the last 5 to 10 years or so. I think stuff like skaven always been high fantasy though. I really hope for something innovative for malign portents though.  Maybe a ghost ship with no physical form that can sail on a wave of undead souls like the mortis engine  xP.

 

@Rogue Explorator you are right. I think the old sculptors and designers were fired some years ago. I think it may be hard for new designers to continue a project that has been so milked out already for years by other artists already and then being asked to make something new out of it. In 40k thats not publicity easier with the scale of the universe, but it's so easy to come up with some over the top new technology in sci-fi settings, since science comes with new theories all the time. I would love to see a race of time warpers that can bend time and give you a double turn or something haha. Either way,  really nice write!

[Kugane]

9 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

This is not true. 

All these superheroes are older than even LotR, and they were always popular. Also AoS is DnD made manifest like in good old days of old GW and DnD is old. And DnD is a very over-the-top. Nothing new at all. 

Fair point! I'll have to give that some thought today :).

[Killax]

8 hours ago, Rogue Explorator said:

I will take GW my primary example here, since it is what I assume we are most familiar with:

GW makes miniatures and wants to keep making minis. They need to be at least somewhat new and fresh compared to what has come before and often bigger and fancier as well.

A traditional fantasy or low fantasy world just does not offer that scope of expansion. The lore of Warhammer Fantasy was already heavily straining under the expansions it had been getting in its last years, creations like the Cellestial Hurricanum, the Scycutter, Engineers on Mechanical Horses and such already being rejected by a sizable segment of the player base.

-

It is certainly anecdotal evidence, but in the years before the Endtimes I have only met Warhammer Fantasy players that played one older edition or another, with mates from way back, rejecting not just the rules updates, but also any new lore or miniature that came out after their personal sweet spot. But I digress.

Point is, if you have a living franchise and it is the basis of your business or occupation, you need room for constant expansion and ideally a setting whose fanbase will accept such expansions. Meaning the setting needs to be such, that constant expansions do not alter or disrupt the style and charm that originally drew the fans to the setting and franchise.

-

I think the ongoing franchises are often more visible and generate more venue, even though I venture the actual fanbases of either style are actually pretty evenly distributed (with by far not all people that follow fantasy in some form favoring either one or the other style).

Low fantasy settings may not always be so visible, but that does not mean they are not there or are not apreciated. Song of Fire and Ice has made a slow march from rather obscure favorite to propably the biggest and most successful Fantasy franchise of its time and at its craziest it is propably still lower fantasy than the Old World, so there is also that.

Cut the post in a few sections but yes, it's absolutely important to be able to continue. However it's even more important to be capable to create new ideas. As you mentioned WFB to a large extend was finished. With only Cathay and Araby to explore (though the latter was explored quite often) and potentially a south pole with other Daemons it was pretty much all filled in and stuck at that world. Because the narrative was so deep and detailed that going away from that would even upset people.

To come to a short point, the reason why WFB is gone also has much to do with going that deep and detailed. Around 5th edition it became clear that the Old World basically had historical fantasy designs but with Chaos being the beginning and end of humanity because of it's unstable nature and power that lead to the Magic winds etc. From that point on the destruction by Chaos had been put on paper and as such the only way to follow up is by End Times.

I wouldn't call the way WFB created it's lore strained, it just wanted to go as deep as a book does and indeed like a book it will then have finished narrative with no additional space to explore. It's this what makes AoS much stronger. It puts equal importance to Order, Death and Destruction as it does for Chaos. While Chaos and Order where the first their power by comparison is enough to thake it on. This is also why the Stormcast play such an important role, they are Order manifest, a fighter that will not simply be influenced by Chaos (yet) so will be able to save their universe from it.

What I think is that historical fantasy settings or low fantasy settings are great too but at the same time you often see that a story cannot be kept in that setting for the duration of the narrative (this was true for WFB aswell), e.g. GoT; they now need to defend themselves from a Lich King and horde of zombies, HP; starts as a young boy in regular town with bad foster parents and basically becomes the hero of another dimention within our world or LotR; starts in epic fantasy and dwindles it down to more and more low fantasy styles.

In any case AoS is what it is, something that can continue for a long time because not every corner is filled in and the future End Times are predicted  

26 minutes ago, Kugane said:

I think when WHF started out it pretty much was high fantasy though. But it seems that has shifted away somewhere the last 5 to 10 years or so. I think stuff like skaven always been high fantasy though. I really hope for something innovative for malign portents though.  Maybe a ghost ship with no physical form that can sail on a wave of undead souls like the mortis engine  xP.

Certainly, it ws even longer ago before they apointed Chaos to basically be the epic fantasy excuse but because of it also the greatest power in WFB. I'd say if we are going specific about it the first start of it was back in 2002 with the Storm of Chaos booklet expansion. Which was extremely cool and really covered unique designs we now see in AoS actually (full Slaves to Darkness armies, full Slayer armies etc.).

I would love any additional vessels to be part of the game sooner as later. Makes the range that more interesting  

[Twitch of Izalith]

I don't think any of this is exactly off-topic. We are talking about where the game goes next and what influences the design. Malign Portents is where its going next and all those factors will influence what products we see coming out...

Despite the fact that I'm currently working on a storcast army, I think my main hope is that the narrative is not centred around the SCE and Sigmar for this "chapter". They need to be a player in the story but I think most people would be glad to get some other perspectives - Nagash, Malerion and whatever may have become of Tyrion & Teclis are the popular choices. It would also be good to get a clue about whats going on with Slaanesh.

I get the concept of leaving some question marks for later development but I think its important to get these characters into the narrative before you get to the point where an implausible story needs to be invented to explain why they have been sitting around not doing anything for so long.

To use an analogy everyone will be able to relate to, I think its important to get all the base layers done before you start working on the shades and highlights..

 

 

[Sheriff]

9 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I think my main hope is that the narrative is not centred around the SCE and Sigmar for this "chapter".

But it will. Stormcast will turn into skeletons somehow.

[Killax]

Honestly I think thats a really interesting prospect. I'd love to see Death Knight stormcasts, I am quite certain that many Death players would like a beefy infantry unit like that too outside of ghouls. 

In addition I also think it's very promissing to see the dark side of Order being fleshed out more, basically all of this fits the thematic vibe MP has displayed so far, a very grim Age of Sigmar, including an updated less gold AoS symbol  .



Gold and death

[HorticulusTGA]

https://malignportents.com/#2 : new portent ; "the Icon".

The statue may be Sigmar himself, or a simple sigmarite (I mean Sigmar believers), or a Stormcast (because good shape and all).

So, to me it could mean 2 things...

1) Deathcast Eternal confirmed.

2) The terrible blow the forces of Order will suffer, that "even the Chaos gods couldn't inflict on Sigmar" is that Nagash find a way to stop the Reforging process ; meaning each time a Stormcast dies, it could (not necessarily awlays) be for good. It may be GW's answer to the part of the Community asking for "not meaninglessly respawning heroes" ; "if they cannot truly die it doesn't matter", etc.

Or a mix of both ; we'll perhaps get a Reforging-failed Stormcast kit, using for Death and Order, or something like that. Anyway !

[Twitch of Izalith]

29 minutes ago, Killax said:

I'd love to see Death Knight stormcasts

I would like to see some death knights for sure. by which I mean undead in heavy armour like the artwork you posted  but it would put me off if they were directly related to the stormcast. I think the whole fact that you can't kill them and Nagash can't get their souls is integral to their identity as a faction. Having Death (or Chaos) versions would just erode that.

You can have similar units (chaos warriors, blood warriors, brutes) that stand on their own just as easily.

I won't be too disappointed as long as we get some cool models though

[RuneBrush]

31 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

The statue may be Sigmar himself, or a simple sigmarite (I mean Sigmar believers), or a Stormcast (because good shape and all).

I mis-read this and thought you said "Sigmar beavers"

[wayniac]

I have heard, but never saw a citation, that GW stated there will be no ghost pirates (it might have just been them saying "Reading into the ship too much").  However, I am still hopeful this is a new death faction.  I think death is weird in that they don't have much leeway without going the "horror movie" aka "Castlevania" style approach where you have werewolves, golems (i.e. frankenstein's monster) and other such horror movie monsters, but then it's not exactly "Death" now is it?

Death Knights might be cool.  I do think they could (but would they?) take inspiration from WoW's Scourge as a theme for death.  Undead giants, flesh constructs, death knights, etc. 

My interpretation of "The Icon" is that it shows the rot and decay starting to take hold under the veneer of Order and Sigmar's reclaimed realms.  So that makes me think that "The Field" represents Shyish itself (i.e. the land of the dead) and "the Ship" represents passage to the land of the living (a la the ferry across Styx in Greek mythology)

[Rogue Explorator]

Hm, the new teaser does not really tell us much, we have been told not to read to much into "the ship", I do not think that the trailer right after that one then hints at a massive story turn. What the trailers do tell us is that Malign Portents may be even more Death focused than imagined. Each omen points at the influence of Death primarily, its not like "the forces of Chaos, Death and Destruction are turning the tide against Order" or something like that (which with the four "heralds" thing, would have been imaginable. Looks like it is fully going down the route of "Something really bad for everyone is about to happen and when it does, you can blame Nagash".

 

One possibility is that Malign Portents does not include whatever horrible thing is about to happen (or only includes it at the events very end), but is just the buildup and first leg of a larger storyline. The name really would not make much sense if it was itself the major shakeup. So we might have a few more month of hinting and teasing ahead of us, before we actually learn what the big deal is.

 

At least I can bury my pet theory of the logos being the actual teaser, seems like the first teaser when played from the webside is just a tad out of sorts.

 

@Killax: No disagreement on the matter of creating new ideas from me. I guess I should have been clearer about what I mean by expanding a setting: Not just expanding the elements that have already been established, but also being able to introduce entirely new elements and turns.

[Sheriff]

7 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:

Hm, the new teaser does not really tell us much, we have been told not to read to much into "the ship", I do not think that the trailer right after that one then hints at a massive story turn.

Agree about the previous 2, but this one is more overt; the statue has lightning bolt shoulders. 

My only concern is that deathcast models for death will make graveguard redundant, but I'm sure they'll make them new and unique somehow. 

[wayniac]

But that statue doesn't look like a Stormcast.  It looks like a human in a robe i.e. a priest of Sigmar.

[Blueraven84]

You guys are way overthinking this whole thing. My guess is , that it is just  a release with couple hero models, anything else released is bonus in my books.

[stato]

55 minutes ago, wayniac said:

My interpretation of "The Icon" is that it shows the rot and decay starting to take hold under the veneer of Order and Sigmar's reclaimed realms.  So that makes me think that "The Field" represents Shyish itself (i.e. the land of the dead) and "the Ship" represents passage to the land of the living (a la the ferry across Styx in Greek mythology)

GW have said this new 'season' of AoS is all about showing the darker side of the realms. Its a direct response to the comments when AoS launched about it being to 'light' and 'clean'.  The logo is the start of it, I expect we will see all sorts of darkness and misery coming in some shape or form. Death seems an obvious one but im keen to see how they  reveal that 'good' is not always as 'good' as it might appear.  And how do you turn that into a game mechanic? we already fight order vs order so what new twists might we see, special scenarios or campaign, faction specific grudges maybe? or a new Order faction that does not ally with Stormcast!?

[shinros]

1 hour ago, wayniac said:

I have heard, but never saw a citation, that GW stated there will be no ghost pirates (it might have just been them saying "Reading into the ship too much").  However, I am still hopeful this is a new death faction.  I think death is weird in that they don't have much leeway without going the "horror movie" aka "Castlevania" style approach where you have werewolves, golems (i.e. frankenstein's monster) and other such horror movie monsters, but then it's not exactly "Death" now is it?

Death Knights might be cool.  I do think they could (but would they?) take inspiration from WoW's Scourge as a theme for death.  Undead giants, flesh constructs, death knights, etc. 

My interpretation of "The Icon" is that it shows the rot and decay starting to take hold under the veneer of Order and Sigmar's reclaimed realms.  So that makes me think that "The Field" represents Shyish itself (i.e. the land of the dead) and "the Ship" represents passage to the land of the living (a la the ferry across Styx in Greek mythology)

You are correct here is the post. 

 

Yup, I am thinking along the same lines people screaming undead pirates and death stormcast are taking the omens too literally. Remember GW said these signs are not to be taken literally. With this new teaser I suspect there is going to be some HUGE religious fallout I mean you got nagash worshippers hanging out in the cities if Nagash tells them to start setting up cults to drag down the city they will do it. 

Plus we know that nagash does indeed talk to his followers a lot unlike sigmar. I personally think the reason why the age of hope will die is because it's as Grungi said in spear of shadows, Sigmar does not lower himself to the little peoples level. Even nagash does it in his own weird and domineering way. 

Look at this "shadows gather in sigmar's kingdoms and none are safe"