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Malign Portents


Will Myers

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4 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I bet the portents book will be what makes them special. 

Which won't help matched play overmuch. A few events might use the Malign portents rules as a bit of a gimmick, but tournaments and tournament players in general aren't real enamored by additional layers of rules. Plenty of tournaments in North America don't use terrain rules or triumphs still.

Add on to that that there is a clear difference in the usability of these characters and I think this is likely a non-starter for matched play.

Not everything needs to be built around matched play though so ultimately, not a big deal. Should be some cool campaigns coming out of this.

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The Warscryer Citadel's up on the app:

e7kCLef.jpg

Rather handy with a Lord-Ordinator inside, massively increasing the radius of his +1 to his bubble and allowing him to use his shoot twice command ability twice in a turn. It's a shame it's unlikely there'll be any way to take on as part of your army or summon it in matched play. ;) 

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On ‎03‎.‎02‎.‎2018 at 1:33 PM, Double Misfire said:

It's a shame it's unlikely there'll be any way to take on as part of your army or summon it in matched play. ;) 

I don't know why everything in AoS has to be always about matched play. I have the feeling after the release of the first GHB everyone only measures releases on their impact on matched play. There is so much talk about tournaments and the matched play scene, whereas I would think only a small percentage of the AoS players goes to tournaments and plays hardcore matched play. The rest plays AoS more as a Beer & Pretzel game in their local groups.

So why measure everything on matched play? 

Before the GHB2016 I have seen more posts and topics which had a focus on the narrative aspect of the game and it was more about playing interesting and exciting battles. Now I only read posts like "Do you consider this list viable?" or "You cannot take this unit, because it is absolute garbage for the points". I really like that GW encourages open play and narrative play more and more. And I think matched play and perfectly balanced armies shouldn't be the goal of AoS. I am more a fan of interesting playstyles rather than everything is balanced. But I also think it should be at least balanced enough so that everyone can stand a chance on the board. 

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3 minutes ago, Redmanphill said:

Seriously?

Yep :) Those are close to 19 years old now. NZ link: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Deadwalkers-Zombies-2018

The third model option for the Vamp Engine is also revealed (we knew the option but it's technically new):
99120207019_BloodseekerPalanquin01.jpg

What is kind of cool is that the MP book itself is quite cheap, so I'll probably pick it up. There there also some deals with the Heralds, but I don't think there is any savings on them?

- none for Order
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Marakarrs-Warband-of-the-Blood-Sky-2018
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Snazzgars-Portents-of-the-Waagh-2018
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Nighthaunt-Spirit-Host-2018

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Malign Portents first part pre-order:

60220299010_MalignPortentsCardsENG02.jpg
60220299010_MalignPortentsCardsENG03.jpg
60220299010_MalignPortentsCardsENG04.jpg

Contains:
- 6 sets of 6 cards, containing rules for each of the following Guiding Malign Portents: the Falling Star, the Bloodied Skull, the Black Void, the Balemoon, the Writhing Serpent and the Red Mist;
- 4 sets of 6 cards, containing rules for Guiding Malign Portents for each of the following Harbingers: the Darkoath Warqueen, the Lord-Ordinator, the Knight of Shrouds, and the Fungoid Cave-Shaman;
- 20 Prophecy Point cards.

Scenario:
60040299069_MalignPortentsBattletome02.j

Legions of Nagash:

We see the Gravesitemarkers being tokens in the Warscroll card set for Legions of Nagash.

We see Keywords being gained:
60030207010_LegionsofNagashBattletome05.

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39 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I don't know why everything in AoS has to be always about matched play. I have the feeling after the release of the first GHB everyone only measures releases on their impact on matched play. There is so much talk about tournaments and the matched play scene, whereas I would think only a small percentage of the AoS players goes to tournaments and plays hardcore matched play. The rest plays AoS more as a Bear & Pretzel game in their local groups.

So why measure everything on matched play? 

Before the GHB2016 I have seen more posts and topics which had a focus on the narrative aspect of the game and it was more about playing interesting and exciting battles. Now I only read posts like "Do you consider this list viable?" or "You cannot take this unit, because it is absolute garbage for the points". I really like that GW encourages open play and narrative play more and more. And I think matched play and perfectly balanced armies shouldn't be the goal of AoS. I am more a fan of interesting playstyles rather than everything is balanced. But I also think it should be at least balanced enough so that everyone can stand a chance on the board. 

Before ghb 2016 it wasn't a game, it was an audiodrama you threw dice at.

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Matched play and points saved AoS from oblivion. Not a single AoS player in my area plays using the old AoS rules. You never never even hear it asked, and most players consider it unplayable without the matched play rules. Matched play has brought a ton of old players like myself back into the hobby and it’s definitely the future of AoS.

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44 minutes ago, Burf said:

Before ghb 2016 it wasn't a game, it was an audiodrama you threw dice at.

Maybe some people like audiodramas to throw dice at. ;-) Especially because there are so many boardgames on the market to choose from (which are often more balanced than AoS). I don't think we need another game on the market which then transform to MtG just for tabletop.

I find the narrative approach refreshing. I like unbalanced scenarios, which aren't always competitively balanced and fair, but create and exiting gaming experience.

If I want to play a truly balanced and competitive game I certainly won't pick AoS. In my opinion there are enough games which are better suited for a competitive setting and I think AoS especially shines because it takes a different approach.

I don't see the future of AoS as a competitive game. I think it also has to cater to the competitive audience, but not primarily.

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7 hours ago, Burf said:

The thing that does annoy me is when people don't acknowledge that for some, the painting and assembly is a COST of the game; not a benefit

I understand that this is true for some people.  What I don't understand is why those people would choose to get into this hobby in the first place if that's their view.

 

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9 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

What I don't understand is why those people would choose to get into this hobby in the first place if that's their view.

Jeah. Right? There are certainly better hobbies where you don't have to paint and assemble stuff, which are often better suited for competitive and tournament play. The painting, assembling, building is a central aspect of the hobby for me. And also the ability to play with the things I painted and see the beautiful models someone else has painted.

Playing with beautifully painted miniatures is like sharing a passion with each other and having fun sharing this experience with another person. Also designing and building your own gaming table inspired by the setting of the Realms.  I think a competitive setting takes away the fun, because it is often only about winning and not sharing an interesting experience with another person. 

There are so many fun and interesting Time of War rules, battleplans, scenarios or scenery rules which are often ignored in matched play. There are also only 6 battleplans viable for matched play, while there are over 40 for open or narrative play. But people often only play those 6 battleplans. 

The best game I played was in the Realm of Beasts and the battleplan where you fight in a canyon where monsters appear every battleround. The battle got better with each battle round. It was really fun.

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12 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I understand that this is true for some people.  What I don't understand is why those people would choose to get into this hobby in the first place if that's their view.

 

Because the game's fun and you can knock out an army in a week if you do basic 3 color tournament standard.

Everyone gets involved for different reasons. You're not better than someone else because you spent a bunch of time putting extra mammaries on your Slaanesh snakehorse or w/e. Gatekeeping toy soldiers is pretty pathetic tbh.

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The game, though,  really is only just ok-ish. Fun,  sure, but as just a game experience there are many better ones. 

And again, it's not like the painting is some shocking surprise you only find out about after you've bought a bunch of stuff. 

There is no gatekeeping going on here. 

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4 minutes ago, Infeston said:

Jeah. Right? There are certainly better hobbies where you don't have to paint and assemble stuff, which are often better suited for competitive and tournament play. The painting, assembling, building is a central aspect of the hobby for me. And also the ability to play with the things I painted and see the beautiful models someone else has painted.

Playing with beautifully painted miniatures is like sharing a passion with each other and having fun sharing this experience with another person. I think a competitive setting takes away the fun, because it is often only about winning and not sharing an interesting experience with another person. 

A close battle between two evenly matched armies coming down to a couple of critical decisions is the most interesting shared experience you can get with another person from AoS. Having them break down their blending techniques or w/e takes the fun out of the competition. If I wanted to be lectured at I'd go back to school.

The cool part is, outside of this forum, these groups never really have to meet and we SHOULD be able to respect that we have different viewpoints on what is enjoyable about AoS for long enough to get done here and go back to our comfort zones.

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5 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

The game, though,  really is only just ok-ish. Fun,  sure, but as just a game experience there are many better ones. 

And again, it's not like the painting is some shocking surprise you only find out about after you've bought a bunch of stuff. 

There is no gatekeeping going on here. 

You just said (paraphrased) 'why even play this game if you don't paint and model like I do' You heavily implied 2 seperate times that people who prefer the gaming shouls go elsewhere. 

Gatekeeping.

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1 minute ago, Burf said:

You just said (paraphrased) 'why even play this game if you don't paint and model like I do'

That is really not what he said, but what you interpreted. He only said what he said. He only said that there are better games to play if you want a competitive experience. 

You can still get a competitive experience for AoS, but it will never be as balanced as other games which are created especially for a competitive audience. AoS was not created with the competitive crowd in mind. They only tried to cater to the competitive audience by creating points and special rules for the game, because the people wanted it. 

But ultimatively the game and the core rules weren't designed for competitive play. They only added competitive rules, because people wanted this so much. But in the end AoS is not designed for competitive play like other games which are designed with competitive play in mind.

Also the addition of points often creates the illusion of balance and fairness, but there are so many synergies and hidden combinations which can't be displayed through points.

I also just wanted to add that I think that the competitive crowd is still a minority in the game. So I think the voices of the competitive community should be heard, but on the other hand the whole game shouldn't focus too much on competitive play. I have seen many games lose appeal for their audience, because they catered too much to their competitive audience.  

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1 minute ago, Kirjava13 said:

Oh don't be ridiculous, no he didn't, he said he didn't understand why people who don't enjoy painting and modelling would get into a hobby which is 50% painting and modelling, not that he thought they shouldn't get into it.

How is that different? If I say 'I don't understand why you'd go left there' it means 'you shouldn't go left'; same principle applies here.

And it's only 50% if you make it 50%, it can be 5% if you try hard enough.

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Don't be obtuse, you know what I mean when I say 50%. It's a hobby of building, painting and gaming. If you don't enjoy any particular part of it that's fine, I'm not super stoked about actually playing for my part, but I don't pretend that the game part isn't a substantial part of this hobby.

And if you turn left and I tell you I don't understand why you turned left, well, now's your chance to explain, perhaps, rather than accuse me of gatekeeping driving (?!?).

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1 minute ago, Infeston said:

That is really not what he said, but what you interpreted. He only said what he said. He only said that there are better games to play if you want a competitive experience. 

You can still get a competitive experience for AoS, but it will never be as balanced as other games which are created especially for a competitive audience. AoS was not created with the competitive crowd in mind. They only tried to cater to the competitive audience by creating points and special rules for the game, because the people wanted it. 

But ultimatively the game and the core rules weren't designed for competitive play. They only added competitive rules, because people wanted this so much. But in the end AoS is not designed for competitive play like other games which are designed with competitive play in mind.

Also the addition of points often creates the illusion of balance and fairness, but there are so many synergies and hidden combinations which can't be displayed through points.

I also just wanted to add that I think that the competitive crowd is still a minority in the game. So I think the voices of the competitive community should be heard, but on the other hand the whole game shouldn't focus too much on competitive play. I have seen many games lose appeal for their audience, because they catered too much to their competitive audience.  

That's the thing, I don't care how balanced the game is because it's FUN, there might be other, better games out there but I like this one.

And I don't need to be catered to, I just want all the HAAC people out there to know that sometimes people do the hobbying as a COST of the game. That doesn't mean you hate the hobbying, it just means it's work for you whereas it's leisure for others.

For me, it's like building a deck. I don't hate building decks, but I would never build one for free unless I get to sit on it and drink lemonade whenever I wanted.

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4 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Don't be obtuse, you know what I mean when I say 50%. It's a hobby of building, painting and gaming. If you don't enjoy any particular part of it that's fine, I'm not super stoked about actually playing for my part, but I don't pretend that the game part isn't a substantial part of this hobby.

And if you turn left and I tell you I don't understand why you turned left, well, now's your chance to explain, perhaps, rather than accuse me of gatekeeping driving (?!?).

Personally, I think you have something personal against the term gatekeeping but okay, I'll take that one back if it makes you so mad.

I'm not pretending the painting and building isn't part of the hobby, I'm saying those parts are a COST of the hobby for some. I already made an analogy but here's another one:

I want a shed in my back yard. I don't have any of my 3 wishes left so I have to build it. I build a shed, it's not a fun process, it's hard and takes a lot of time and effort, but I don't have any real problems with it, because now I have a shed. 

 

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lets just keep this thread on track, there are other threads which thrash out the 'why bother playing if you can't win' vs I just want to mass battle roleplay argument.

Long and short of it is this...

Malign portents is there to advance the storyline on from the realmgate wars.  It's going to allow GW to release new factions and models with purpose and reason and great backstories.

Out of that will come stuff that appeals to not only tournament players but also to the guys with long standing campaigns and narratives going on.

I don't believe that GW really care that these new characters aren't superheroes that tournament gamers can get their next trophies with, because on a fundamental level all I've been reading today is "the characters released aren't anything special - I aint gonna win with them".

What they will do however is allow those interested in the story to have characters around which events pivot.

Warhammer world will probably have a campaign weekend with all the new rules and narrative in play.  What external TO's choose to  do or not to do is really none of their concern.  It's GW's trainset and only they know what tracks and carriages they want to get out the box and put down at this point in time.  But all of us will just have to wait and see.

I'm keeping an open mind on it.  We're barely into this story and we've got a whole summer if not the full year to go with it.

lets all just keep calm and enjoy the show for what it is... and crack the hobnobs out...

(for USA brethrin - hobnobs - a biscuit of such addictiveness that it could almost be used as the international currency of corruption.  Slaanesh would rope you in with hobnobs for sure.)

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@BurfI don't have a problem with the word, "gatekeeping". I have a problem with you unjustly accusing someone of it and calling them pathetic. If you want to just play the game, don't get me wrong, I sympathise, I didn't enjoy the painting part for the longest time either. But chill out when it comes to slagging other people off, huh?

Re: reboxed zombies, quitcha griping ya maggoty Death types- do you have any idea how old Poison Wind Globadier (now Skryre Acolytes, aka one of my only two battleline choices apart from €50 Stormfiends) models are?!? More than twenty years old! xD

 

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35 minutes ago, Burf said:

You just said (paraphrased) 'why even play this game if you don't paint and model like I do' You heavily implied 2 seperate times that people who prefer the gaming shouls go elsewhere. 

Gatekeeping.

This is the problem with the interwebz. Lack of tone. 

When I said I don't get why people would choose to get into this hobby if they don't like painting,  I in no way meant to imply the "like I do" part that you added. Nor did I want to be read with the heavily negative vibe that "should go elsewhere" carries. 

All I'm saying is that there literally are better gaming choices out there if a player is into the gaming part of this hobby more than the painting part. Not that those players "should" go away or anything like that. 

Not hearing the words or seeing the facial expressions really makes it easy to misinterpret stuff. 

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