Malign Portents

[Menkeroth]

28 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

It was but Valtan was killed by a sneaky skaven. Much to Archaons dispair. 

True. At least back then Archaon was not a supervillain kind of a demigod.

26 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Archaon was probably too busy trying to figure out why his sword only had -1 rend...  

I think so! It's interesting that he got really powered on only with the dawn of a new age of the story

And, by the way, I bet he will play a some role during the Malign Portents as well. After all, he defeated Nagash twice in the past

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Is it me or does the icon look a bit like manfred?? 

[Rogue Explorator]

So, new the new portent is up and it is the first I would say is completely free of Death associations.

Comets and falling Stars have always been the most important of all Portents in Warhammer, though they could have a great number of meanings (beautifully done in the TW:Warhammer II Vortext Campaign, where every faction has its own interpretation of the twin tailed comet), though most often it would be a sign from Sigmar (if twin tailed) or a pretty direct ill omen, since it would add to the worlds warpstone.

As a standalone, I would have thought a regular falling star connected to Seraphon in Age of Sigmar, but along with the other portents, I would take this to be quite literal in its meaning. I think here quite simply a falling star translates to a fall from grace.

Provided the Portents shown are supposed to actually have any meaning at all and are not purely meant to set a spooky athmosphere.

 

If the Portent do have such meanings, I think we have:

The Field - Nagash/Death ascendant

The Ship - a (dread) arrival

The Icon - corruption of faith

The Falling Star - a fall from grace

 

Would not tell us much and certainly nothing to surprising. But if that actually is the supposed meaning of those teasers (again, if they are supposed to have any meaning at all) it all follows the lines that could have been expected. Death starts to play a bigger role (hinted since the Shadespire anouncement), there is new stuff (duh), Sigmars plans stop goings as swimmingly as they have been so far (the widest possible interpretation of "The Icon") and heroes will fall.

How any of this will translate into actual lore and releases, we still know absolutely nothing.

However, whatever happen, I do not think it will happen fast or all will be clear in January. Portents precede actual events and whatever Malign Portents actually will be, besides the release of four new heroes, I still think it will be about the titular portents, meaning any actual events (and thus new releases of battletomes and factions) would be still way ahead in the schedule.

[Antonio Rodrigues]

Hummmmm... with this last video, for me the meaning is quite clear: we will have "Death" Stormcasts...

I could not reconcile the Field or the Boat, mayber the Boat meaning "something new arriving" in the Mortal Realms... But for me the "Icon" with the lightning bolt shoulders statue means Stormcasts, but with a death vibe, and the comet means they arriving the Mortal Realms, akin to the true Stomrcasts that come with a lightning...

Lets see...

AJ

[PJetski]

It's so obvious that we are getting Death Seraphon... 

[chord]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

It's so obvious that we are getting Death Seraphon... 

That would be WAY cooler than death stormcast!

[Mandano]

1 hour ago, Rogue Explorator said:

If the Portent do have such meanings, I think we have:

The Field - Nagash/Death ascendant

The Ship - a (dread) arrival

The Icon - corruption of faith

The Falling Star - a fall from grace

I like this alot. Has the makings of a great story arc. 'corruption of faith' could splinter a faction. So many possibilities. Excited to find out more.

 

 

 

[shinros]

Or perhaps it could mean sigmar's star is waning. Anyway here is the image for those who want to see it. 

[Killax]

4 hours ago, shinros said:

Or perhaps it could mean sigmar's star is waning. Anyway here is the image for those who want to see it. 

Perhaps the falling star is a Chaos god's pyroflatulence.

*and those who do speak only of horror*

[Turragor]

I know people are sick of stormcast, I'm sick of hearing people are sick of stormcast BUT has anyone thought about how cool they'll be when they're not the good guys?

Someone mentioned Dark Souls and the idea of Stormcast as the black knights really stuck.

These aren't going to be only exalting in death and killing. Not from the lore build up.

There are those clues which indicate the removal of their personality brings them more towards automatons who reflect the characteristics of their chamber -  so not just machine like skeletons but beings who need absolute order (just want everything ORDERED and order means killing all the messy, disordered, chaotic living beings), beings who become pure vengeance, almost beastlike beings.

It's a bit like Chaos space marines as a concept but it's much more exciting because - as far as I understand it - these will be the stormcast from all stormhosts (not a fallen few) that have died enough.

Perhaps.

And how will they look? If they're larger than human stormcast resurrected, then why stormcast? You could resurrect ogors or orruks (I hope we get blended race skeletons tbh). I have to assume their mechanic of being reborn will remain but with a nagash twist. What would that mean? Sloughing flesh and bones? Spirits? Or a reimagining of death for AoS?

Tl:dr - we're looking at gothic stormcast possibly but that may not at all be a bad thing

[Killax]

Well I think the last year mentioned death knights/wraith knights/wraithcast/morghcast will look as shown on the MP website and indeed this icon:

Its the most logical way to go too. I think they will resemble some Stormcast designs but not totally. Like the Chaos Warriors I expect them to be bigger and stronger. A blend of designs with Morghast influences for sure too.

[Soulsmith]

I personally don't want a death faction of stormcast. I dislike 40k's emphasis on power armour, it's the good guys and the bad guys. And it means most people around me play power armour. I love seeing variety in peoples armies.

[shinros]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

Well I think the last year mentioned death knights/wraith knights/wraithcast/morghcast will look as shown on the MP website and indeed this icon:

Its the most logical way to go too. I think they will resemble some Stormcast designs but not totally. Like the Chaos Warriors I expect them to be bigger and stronger. A blend of designs with Morghast influences for sure too.

To me it looks similar to the shadespire skeleton. Considering GW just released these guys I don't think they are going the deathcast eternal route why? GW wants every alliance and faction to be different in AOS. I will say again if I wanted to play a stormcast army I would play them or bloodbound or anything chaos. I picked death for spooky zombies, skeletons, vampires, necromancers etc.  That's why I chose death considering these two death releases I think GW understands that and considering the new management? They are quite aware of what people want. I would take new zombies over deathcast. 

I mean hell this is our herald for the event does this look anything like a stormcast? Or close to it? Now if GW does go that route? I suspect they will be a lot of dissppointed death players considering HOW long we waited for a release. Plus how would such a faction fit with the Mortarchs? They are spooky vampires and skeletons. GW said not to take the portents literally, soon as people saw the ship people screamed undead pirates. Soon as they saw the sigmarite statue? People scream deathcast. 

 

 

[Rogue Explorator]

2 hours ago, Turragor said:

I know people are sick of stormcast, I'm sick of hearing people are sick of stormcast BUT has anyone thought about how cool they'll be when they're not the good guys?

Someone mentioned Dark Souls and the idea of Stormcast as the black knights really stuck.

These aren't going to be only exalting in death and killing. Not from the lore build up.

There are those clues which indicate the removal of their personality brings them more towards automatons who reflect the characteristics of their chamber -  so not just machine like skeletons but beings who need absolute order (just want everything ORDERED and order means killing all the messy, disordered, chaotic living beings), beings who become pure vengeance, almost beastlike beings.

It's a bit like Chaos space marines as a concept but it's much more exciting because - as far as I understand it - these will be the stormcast from all stormhosts (not a fallen few) that have died enough.

Perhaps.

And how will they look? If they're larger than human stormcast resurrected, then why stormcast? You could resurrect ogors or orruks (I hope we get blended race skeletons tbh). I have to assume their mechanic of being reborn will remain but with a nagash twist. What would that mean? Sloughing flesh and bones? Spirits? Or a reimagining of death for AoS?

Tl:dr - we're looking at gothic stormcast possibly but that may not at all be a bad thing

I always thought the Stormcast you mention, those who have died to often, would eventually seperated from their comrades into seperate units, propably in a new chamber. Sort of like the Blood Angels Death Company, except they never find the release of Death and are more automaton than berserker.

I agree that such Stormcast you talk of could be intriguing, but they would still be Order and are, I believe, not what most of us are talking about when "Deathcast" are speculated on. What you describe are the Stormcast who have lost all the bits of their Soul from Nagash, how could the (still storm powered) shell be Death aligned, when it is defined by being that which Nagash has not taken?

 

That is the big question of what would Death-Stormcast even be? What Souls would be used? How would they have been altered? How closely would they be related to the real deal?

There's a few possibilities floating about:

 

-Just corrupted Stormcast. This could be as simple as when a Stormcast goes bad and renounces Sigmar, on dying he instead goes completely to Nagash who somehow reforges him with EXTRA SKULLS (!!!) and sends him of. As you might glean from my terming, I would consider this a bad route.

 

-Somehow the result of those little bits of Stormcast Souls Nagash steals on each reforging.

But according to lore revealed so far, the stealing does not take any the awesome Stormpower of Stormcast, which is the bit most interesting when Nagash wants to make his own mythic super warriors. I am not exactly sure how a sliver of Soul with Vandus Hammerhands most cherished childhood memory or Gardus knowledge of the seven sacred chants helps make supersoldiers.

I think Nagash actually undertakes the reducing of Stormcast Souls out of principle. As one and only god of Death it is his due and duty to have all Souls go the right way. Sigmar sinned against the natural way of Death in the Realms and thus Nagash can do nothing other than try to take them back. If in the path of doing this he gains some insight into the Stormcast creation and reforging process or something critical to Sigmars plans (like bits of a Lord Celestants tactical knowledge) that is just icing on the cake

But lets just assume this is actually what Nagash uses to make his own troops. That could be done two different way. One is that Nagash actually puts gestalt consciousnesses into "his guys" assembled from bits of countless different Stormcast. This sounds pretty crazy, but also kind of cool and like it could only go wrong. So like a classic Nagash. The other possibility is that Nagash assembles an evil twin of every Stormcast who then becomes less automaton and gains more personality the more often his original counterpart dies. Neither would explain why Nagash has to use Stormcast Souls when he does not get any of Sigmars Storm-Mojo by that route?

 

-Nagash takes on proto-Stormcast who rejected being reforged or did not survive the reforging process. Such souls might deliver Nagash the desired Storm-Mojo. This is a bit like the first possibility, but a little less straightforward and Nagash would still need to provide his own arms and armor (and quite possibly new bodies as well). Makes one wonder how many of Sigmars prospects did not make it through the process, since the quota would need to be pretty high for this to pay of for Nagash.

 

-Bootleger Nagash and his counterfeit Stormcast. "Death Stormcast" are not Stormcast at all, but created by Nagash developing his own version of the reforging process. Between what little lore and stories we have gotten on Nagash, he is propably in a pretty good position to study and determine what makes Stormcast the powerhouses they are and use the methods available to him to make the closest possible approximation (possibly even incorporating some genuine sigmarite parts he that "fell into his hands") .

 

Not Stormcast or even a copy at all, but just some new developement that happens to be on the powerlevel of Stormcast . Not unthinkable, Nagash is a constant scheemer, well possible that Sigmar was not the only one who though developing mystic super soldiers in secret was propably a good idea. On the other hand, Sigmar developed his super guys during the Age of Chaos in a locked up Realm with the (initial) help of four other gods (Malerion and Tyrion/Teclis obscuring Azyr, Grun lending his smiths and Dracothion giving a hand and a half), Nagash was alone, had a nasty Chaos infestation in his Realm and had Archaon stomping on his spine whenever he has shown signs of recovery, so that would be some serious showing up Sigmar.

 

-Any combination and mixture of the above is thinkable

 

All that provided there is something incoming sooner or later that could be called "Deathcast" at all.

 

We still do not have anything solid to sing our teeth into. At least we had some words from hastings and decent Rumor Engine pictures for Kharadon and the long rumored  Shadowkin/Cthulluelves and Silver Tower plus decent hints from GW on the Tzeentch release. For Death we have only Malign Portents teasers and some book announcements to tell us something might be coming.

 

 

Just for the record, I still think if Death Stormcast are going to be a thing, they should be Stormcast sized AoSified Ushabti. But maybe that is just me.

[Davariel]

I really, really hope we don't get any sort of "deathcast". Nothing against Stormcast, but in this instance I just don't see it working out well on any level.

I think what Death really needs is to cement it's own identity as a grand alliance, not try and copy Order. What happened to the idea of diversity between factions? Do we really need *another* faction of big elite guys in full armour? I'd much rather see Death played up as a foil to Order, as a large horde army of shambling, filthy corpses arrayed against shining, giant superhumans. Let it keep it's own identity rather than giving us a Chaos Warrior/Stormcast counterpart!

I don't like it from a narrative point of view, either. The Stormcasts losing parts of themselves with each reforging is one of the most compelling bits of their background, and I can't help but feel going the "corrupted by Nagash" route would risk upsetting that. It'd be difficult to keep good Stormcasts around if every one of them is doomed to fall to Nagash eventually, so you'd probably have to solve the reforging problem (and end up with a rehash of 40k's loyalist vs traitor dynamic). And what personality do you give the deathcasts themselves? Or is all the character development about the struggle of the good guys (which doesn't seem like a wise move given how desperately death needs love). I dunno, I'm sure it could be done well, but I can't help but fear a deathcast narrative could easily go really badly

Plus I'm not sure what you could really do with them model-wise that you can't already do by kitbashing current Stormcasts... seems like a waste of potential to me.

But who knows, the Knight of Shrouds is certainly more traditional undead in design so hopefully we're in for a variety of death releases!

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

It wouldn't surprise if Death gets Deathcast or similar Chaos Warriors-esque faction, because death doesn't really have an elite, low-model count army (save pure Soulblight with all Bloodknights or Nagash and Morghasts). Sure, the first thing  everyone thinks of for Death are massive zombie/skeleton hordes, but I think GW is trying to diversify each Grand Alliance so you have different options to choose from. For example, Destruction, you have Ironjawz, who are the punchy, smashy elite army, Bonesplittaz are horde that relies on synergy like Khorne but is also good at monster killing, Ogors are elite but offer a fair balanced range of models, Spiderfang Grots so far rely on cavalry, speed and monsters, while Moonclan are horde but focus on tricks and glass-cannon troops to put you in uncomfortable situations.  While Destruction isn't as diverse as Order and Chaos, you see the variety or potential of variety. Order and Chaos have a wide range of forces you can customize your playstyle to, whether it be hordes, shooting, magic, or elite face smashers. I think Death needs something like that.

I've always liked the idea of a Frankenstein faction. You have mortal human followers like peasants who can form blobs of troops while elite Frankenstein troops are goaded into combat. You can also give them some crazy lightning siege machines as well for shooting (Edit: reading this back, it seems like I perfectly described Skaven from 8th Edition WHFB ) 

If we get Deathcasts, I won't be too upset. I just want the lore to gel. If they make them like Death Knights from WoW, or even the aesthetic from Dark Souls, that would be amazing and unique.

My theory: I believe with Tarus captured, Nagash picks him apart, discovers the secrets of reforging, and begins turning the tables on Sigmar. Nagash could also be experimenting on all the Stormcasts who have become lost or trapped in Shadespire. Perhaps he orchestrates a plot to draw the Stormcast to Shyish once more, only this time, when a Stormcast falls, Nagash is ready to steal those souls back to him. Maybe it takes too long for Sigmar to react as he doesn't comprehend the disaster going on until he loses a Stormhost (or few). Watch those Lord-Relictors. They are the only Stormcast models from the Starter Box that you cannot buy individually at a store. They have said many times Nagash has contacted them, perhaps even talked to them. I expect them to play a big role for Sigmar's response (or the cause of a betrayal)

This could also have implications on Sigmar's strength because every stormcast has a small piece of Sigmar's godly powers. What's to say if Nagash steals or converts their souls that Sigmar gets those powers back? It could strengthen Nagash in fact, and allow Chaos and/or Destruction to take ground.

Also, don't forget that Shyish is technically under Chaos' control, but that will obviously change when Nagash returns. Who knows, we might see a Nagash vs Archaon rematch if he comes down to try to put him back in his place like he's done in the past.

Sorry for rambling, but I am getting anxious to discover what 2018 brings for the next phase in AoS' lore

[Beardbattered]

I really really hope we don't just get Deathcast.  It's just lazy and unimaginative.  Instead I would rather see Nagash having been siphoning off soul energy during the reforging process, and repurposing that energy to create something completely new.

[Riluo]

Tomb king rehash please whereby Nagash combines his knowledge of death and having glimpsed the notion of how reforging those pesky AOS marines are made. He  recreate the lost warriors of the tomb kings with aspects of their past twisted and remade to see Nagash as Settra the Imperishable, insofar as Settra is removed from all their memories and replaced with Nagash as the greatest king of kings. Someone who has awoken them to reclaim the world in the name of Nagash the Death King.

Perhaps those revived as sentient in nature being fully capable of making conscious decisions in the heat -pun- of battle, with the warriors of old now less skeletal in appearance and more mummified and larger of stature. They would be draped in heavy mail and leathers rather than heavy steel armour like sigmar marines. Whilst others would be returned priests of the now "Priesthood of the god of death" dressed in ancient robes capable of draining the life essence of the living to charge their attacks or bluster other troops defences or damage.

Also return aspects of the soul caskets  that revive those who fall by drawing in their souls allowing them to be returned to battle once more in hero phases as long as they are a set distance.

 

 

 

 

[Malakree]

Taking a slightly different tact to it. 

Stars/comets are often equated with Seraphon. If we take the huge leap, and it is massive, of assuming that this implies a Seraphon hero is the Order hero for Malign Portents. This then means that all of our currently announced heroes are from a faction which received allegiance abilities in GBH2017.

• Nighthaunt - Knight of Shrouds
• Slaves to Darkness - Darkoath Warqueen
• Seraphon - ?

This then leaves the only destruction option as an Ironjawz hero. Not sure Seraphon or Ironjawz count as minor factions for their respective allegiances but figured I'd throw out a crazy theory to try and alleviate the waiting.

[Turragor]

4 hours ago, Davariel said:

what Death really needs is to cement it's own identity as a grand alliance, not try and copy Order. What happened to the idea of diversity between factions? Do we really need *another* faction of big elite guys in full armour? I'd much rather see Death played up as a foil to Order, as a large horde army of shambling, filthy corpses arrayed against shining, giant superhumans. Let it keep it's own identity rather than giving us a Chaos Warrior/Stormcast counterpart!

But deaths identity has always been reanimation. Ie copying or twisting others. 

[Tonhel]

I do hope to see heavly armoured undead troops. I wouldn't mind deatcast, but units of Whights would also be nice. A more elite version of Grave Guard. So that I have skeletons, grave guard and than the elite of the elite.

I can't wait. Hopefully we will see  a preview soon!

 

Bring it on!

[AverageBoss]

9 minutes ago, Turragor said:

But deaths identity has always been reanimation. Ie copying or twisting others. 

True, but the range has always been very human based. Undead Lizards are not really an option  anymore, though I wanted to see them for years. But I would still like to see vampire elves, zombie ogres/gargants and such before undead stormcast.

Wyrd just released some zombie centaurs. That is the sort of thing I want to see for AoS.

[Turragor]

2 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

True, but the range has always been very human based. Undead Lizards are not really an option  anymore, though I wanted to see them for years. But I would still like to see vampire elves, zombie ogres/gargants and such before undead stormcast.

Wyrd just released some zombie centaurs. That is the sort of thing I want to see for AoS.

I'm not a massive fan of deathcast as a theme - it could be the souls of these powerful beings siphoned to power bigger undead beasts for all I care. I would love to see a truly all-embracing undeath - duardin, orruk, cultist, knight, merchant, ogor, troll, grot, human - skeletons, zombies and amalgamations of them all as frankenstein's new monster!

What's most disheartening (I guess) to me is that it's Death's time to shine (signs point that way anyway) and already there are rumblings of discontent. Before any releases are out. Like a 'you better not give me this specific thing GW, just the other thing. Only the other thing.'

Like I don't think deathcast means bad models with bad rules but people already seem decided on it. I think it's basically more Stormcast bashing in a new undead form!

[Malakree]

11 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Like I don't think deathcast means bad models with bad rules but people already seem decided on it. I think it's basically more Stormcast bashing in a new undead form!

It's more that people(or just me?) don't want to see yet more spacemarines. Stormcast are already incredibly close to it and having them in death would just be flogging an (un)dead horse.

Each of the four factions does have an identity and a general aesthetic to them, mixing them just waters everything down. There are so many ways to expand on the themes that death already has built in that pirating the order ones is not just lazy but frustrating. 

Development of the Morghast themes, more deathrattle, deadwalkers shambling hordes, the vampiric legions and their thralls or, as they seem to be doing, nighthaunt etherals. Each of those is so much more interesting than stormcast.

So yeah, hopefully no death based stormcast. Would be a complete waste of so many amazing themes.

[Samanar]

So where in all this are the new Aelves? Do you think they might be somehow connected with Malign Portents? One Aelf model that we have (Mistweaver Saih) show some similarities to the Death Herald, since they both appear out of fog, but it might be a long shot...