Malign Portents

[HorticulusTGA]

49 minutes ago, Sete said:

I think it will be Morathi aswell.

The 2 army's of aelfs could be Morathi and Malekith. 

Didn't Morathi had her own cult?

Yeah, she started the Cult of Pleasure, was a sorceress, but was still the head of the cult of Khaine  

In End Times : Khaine, she ended up eaten by Slaanesh. She was then seen in AOS in the Age of Myth, around a bacchanal of shadow deamons, and "still flesh and blood, but changed". She still decided to ally with her son Malerion and join the Great Alliance of Sigmar.

But no news since ....

[Sete]

3 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Yeah, she started the Cult of Pleasure, was a sorceress, but was still the head of the cult of Khaine  

In End Times : Khaine, she ended up eaten by Slaanesh. She was then seen in AOS in the Age of Myth, around a bacchanal of shadow deamons, and "still flesh and blood, but changed". She still decided to ally with her son Malerion and join the Great Alliance of Sigmar.

But no news since ....

Shadow Daemons you say...

Could she be now a shard of slanesh of some sort? Like the enemy within sort of thing?

This ought to be interesting indeed.

[HorticulusTGA]

12 minutes ago, Sete said:

Shadow Daemons you say...

Could she be now a shard of slanesh of some sort? Like the enemy within sort of thing?

This ought to be interesting indeed.

Yeah I really can see something like this coming... In 40k 8th rulebook, there is somehow hints of Slaanesh eldars, so why not in the fantasy ?

Morathi may be on the Chaos side now, but under cover (Malerion too, but it's less sure. He wants to rule alone).

And about the "Morathi joined the Alliance" part, and possible betrayals... knowing Sigmar's prescience regarding this kind of things, I'm sure he wouldn't have seen it coming  at all.

[DantePQ]

Malekith isn't 100% evil anymore and he cares too much about his children to ally with Chaos, doesn't make sense for him to be Chaos as he is closer to Tyrion/Teclis (especially after ET). I guess both Shadow Aelves and Light Aelves won't be good or evil but on their own something similar to Eldar in wh40k they care about themsevles fore and foremost. Works well with their ET fluff and AoS sigmar fluff. 

Also Malekith during ET was still cruel but was driven to make his children survive, Teclis did more bad things during ET then Malekith. That's what they have  in common. Morathi could go both ways - she could be done with Chaos or agent/ally of Chaos. 

[HorticulusTGA]

8 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Malekith isn't 100% evil anymore and he cares too much about his children to ally with Chaos, doesn't make sense for him to be Chaos as he is closer to Tyrion/Teclis (especially after ET). I guess both Shadow Aelves and Light Aelves won't be good or evil but on their own something similar to Eldar in wh40k they care about themsevles fore and foremost. Works well with their ET fluff and AoS sigmar fluff. 

I agree ! (Well, he may be a little bit "evil" given his new Shadow monster look, but he shouldn't be Chaos at all).  And yeah that's how aelves should be portrayed (I can't wait to see more). 

Note that Malerion was said to have "actively subverted" Sigmar's alliance in the Age of Myth, though. That's probably only Fate of Slaanesh related, because then, during the Age of Chaos, Malerion gave Sigmar the Gladiatorium, and with Tyrion and Teclis helped him hiding Azyr from Tzeentch during the time of the Stormcasts creation... So yeah, just as you say, he isn't good nor evil. 

[Edgecoc]

The word “Shadow” or some form of it seems to be all over MP stuff, and the dark elves currently reside in the realm of shadow... so must be dark elf stormcast on its way. For real though I’m really hoping that was Morathi’s voice in the video and new dark elf models coming out soon. I immediately thought elf when the voice spoke, reminded me of The Lord of the Rings movies, but in English not elvish and definitely  not vampire. 

[Kaleb Daark]

Malekith may have been “evil” but he was still a servant of order.  Everything the elves stood for goes against what chaos stands for.

it was difficult for some to grasp during end times that it wasnt about goid and evil but more order vs chaos with destruction and death chucked into the mix.

[Burf]

2 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Yeah I really can see something like this coming... In 40k 8th rulebook, there is somehow hints of Slaanesh eldars, so why not in the fantasy ?

Morathi may be on the Chaos side now, but under cover (Malerion too, but it's less sure. He wants to rule alone).

And about the "Morathi joined the Alliance" part, and possible betrayals... knowing Sigmar's prescience regarding this kind of things, I'm sure he wouldn't have seen it coming  at all.

The Slaanesh eldar thing got debunked actually. I forget what it was but it was some already existing faction of eldar that's symbol just happened to look slaanesh-y

[HorticulusTGA]

1 hour ago, Burf said:

The Slaanesh eldar thing got debunked actually. I forget what it was but it was some already existing faction of eldar that's symbol just happened to look slaanesh-y

Hmmm are you sure ?

Page 113 of the rulebook there is this list of different Aeldari factions, the number 3 is clearly the rune of Slaanesh, no doubt, and the "redacted" means it's no existing faction. I remember people talking about that but I'm not sure.

[Carnelian]

48 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Hmmm are you sure ?

Page 113 of the rulebook there is this list of different Aeldari factions, the number 3 is clearly the rune of Slaanesh, no doubt, and the "redacted" means it's no existing faction. I remember people talking about that but I'm not sure.

That's awesome I've not seen That!

[Envyus]

3 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Malekith may have been “evil” but he was still a servant of order.  Everything the elves stood for goes against what chaos stands for.

it was difficult for some to grasp during end times that it wasnt about goid and evil but more order vs chaos with destruction and death chucked into the mix.

He was super evil and he likely is still super evil. He sided with Order at first, but ditched them after the Slannesh thing  and has never come back. Likely because he has his own plans.

I doubt he will side with Chaos, But he may end up doing Chaos's work regardless like he did in the old world in pursuit of power.

6 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Yeah, she started the Cult of Pleasure, was a sorceress, but was still the head of the cult of Khaine  

No Morathi never had anything to do with the Cult of Khaine. She and her Cult of Pleasure revearing Slaanesh were it's own thing. Tolarated by Malakith because she was his mother.

[Envyus]

10 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

(Because : Neferata is already there, not returning. Vlad, Mortarch of Shadow is dead dead (he gave his Ring away in ET : Archaon), and has no female voice (IIRC  )

So was Mannfred and Teclis yet they came back. If Nagash wanted to revive Vlad he could.

[HorticulusTGA]

48 minutes ago, Envyus said:

He was super evil and he likely is still super evil. He sided with Order at first, but ditched them after the Slannesh thing  and has never come back. Likely because he has his own plans.

I doubt he will side with Chaos, But he may end up doing Chaos's work regardless like he did in the old world in pursuit of power.

No Morathi never had anything to do with the Cult of Khaine. She and her Cult of Pleasure revearing Slaanesh were it's own thing. Tolarated by Malakith because she was his mother.

Well, Malerion was a bad guy as Malekith, but he has since changed : he saved Alarielle just before the end of the world, and even if he is probably still a... sneaky guy, after the Great Alliance of Sigmar broke at the start of the Age of Chaos, he still came back to offer Sigmar the Gladiatorium, and to help Tyrion and Teclis create a spell to hide Azyr from Tzeentch. So his still here, and not that evil. 

I also like how he is one of the few that have defeated Archaon during the Age of Chaos.

And Morathi has all to do with Khaine ; in WFB she always fought for the control of the Khainite cult against Hellbron ; read the Hellbron entry, pg 55, Dark Elves Armybook : "(she = Hellbron) is only second to Morathi in Khaine's sight". And I really liked the part of her character ; she plays on both sides, with Slaanesh, and with Khaine (Khorne ).

I think she hasn't changed that much, and will still be doing that in AOS, but with Malerion-Sigmar on one side, and Slaanesh-Chaos on the other.

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, Envyus said:

He was super evil and he likely is still super evil. He sided with Order at first, but ditched them after the Slannesh thing  and has never come back. Likely because he has his own plans.

I doubt he will side with Chaos, But he may end up doing Chaos's work regardless like he did in the old world in pursuit of power.

No Morathi never had anything to do with the Cult of Khaine. She and her Cult of Pleasure revearing Slaanesh were it's own thing. Tolarated by Malakith because she was his mother.

Malekith didnt know she was worshipping slaanesh in end times.

good and evil are a different concept to order and chaos.

you can have an extremely evil being who will still demand order and hierarchy as well a a very good individual who follows no rules or believes in the cyclic nature of change and thus believes in the inherent nature of chaos.

 

vampires were a perfect example of this, theirs was a strict hierarchy of ruling families and their tiers of subservience under them.  They would not presume a ghoul worthy of their status.   So you have an order army in essence beyond evil yes, but bound by rules and structure.  The only difference being it is an army of the dead and death is the stagnation which eventually comes to all things.

its probably easier to understand if youve played D&D but the principle is the same.

chaos is cyclic, it always changes.

[Kaleb Daark]

Also to add, malekith was the true heir to the throne, his nephew knew this and malekiths interest wasnt in light or dark it was in uniting the elf nation against what was to come.

[Carnelian]

16 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

good and evil are a different concept to order and chaos.

you can have an extremely evil being who will still demand order and hierarchy as well a a very good individual who follows no rules or believes in the cyclic nature of change 

This suggests to me that the grand alliances chaos and order are actually more aligned with concepts of evil and good than they are with chaos and order

[AlphaKennyThing]

Having had a good peruse of all the new Malign Portents stuff, I can't help but feel a new boxed starter set is en route. I think someone said before about the artwork, and the video interview makes it clear the battle against chaos is put to one side for the moment.

Couple that with the new logo for AoS, it just feels like the 8th edition ramp up for 40k.

I bloody hope so, anyway; I love new boxed sets. I'm keeping my hobby fund aside just in case.

[Kaleb Daark]

Not at all. Look at the order alliance, there are good guys and bad guys in there, high elves and dark elves.

the commonality is thst they come from civilisation and structured societies with an ordered hierarchy, and thats common amongst human elf and dwarf and lizard.

 

chaos itself also has tjings not inherently evil in it.  The mortal warriors of chaos of course are evil in the classic sense if the word but marauders and barbarians have grown up on the workds edge and really worship the chaos gods out of survival rather than a desire to see the world burn.

the beastmen are chaos, in the world that was they had no agenda other than to exist and see the civilised realms as the obstacle to that-  they were there before the coming if men and just saw them as invaders. 

 

Death is a stagnation, an end of things and a full stop.  The chaos gods would never want that ascendency as they would have nothing to corrupt.

destruction has a purity about it as it exists and is driven to just fight.

If chaos can get a foothold in every realm through corruption and seductive promises, what can it fo in the realm of death short if outright invasion?

nurgle is about death and rebirth, what if there was no rebirth... nothing to grow and then start to rot? 

Tzeentchs cycle of change would stop dead, and with only the dead khorne would never be enriched by war unless it was through his legions.

thats why everyone is nervous as nagash starts to play his hand.  Is he creating a nexus to rival all points or is the upside down pyramid hes constructing a weapon?

 

i like also how the knights of shards are the souls who sigmar didnt manage to grab for his eternals- these guys im hoping to find out more, deaths answer to stormcast are goin to be interesting.

its goong to be epic

[Carnelian]

1 hour ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Not at all. Look at the order alliance, there are good guys and bad guys in there, high elves and dark elves.

the commonality is thst they come from civilisation and structured societies with an ordered hierarchy, and thats common amongst human elf and dwarf and lizard.

 

chaos itself also has tjings not inherently evil in it.  The mortal warriors of chaos of course are evil in the classic sense if the word but marauders and barbarians have grown up on the workds edge and really worship the chaos gods out of survival rather than a desire to see the world burn.

Yeah but the gods the chaos guys worship are basically evil whereas the gods worshipped by order are basically good. I think that's the distinction.

There are civilizations that worship chaos with strong hierarchies so I don't think structured civilization is  a good way to distinguish them

[Kaleb Daark]

paint it black and white if you want, and for the interest of not destabilising this thread into a theological debate, the metaphysical dichotomy of the warhammer universe isn't the point of discussion here, but the original question was regarding elves, and malekith/malerion- that's why dark and high elves exist under the banner of order.

To anyone, If you haven't already I'd recommend the garagehammer end times episodes, they're great for just a nice audio description of fluff, as it's as much the story but also the breakdown of what the story is saying which only an english teacher can do well  - in fact, just listen to all of his story narrative podcasts!   thank you @Spirit of Grungni

 

[Envyus]

3 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Also to add, malekith was the true heir to the throne, his nephew knew this and malekiths interest wasnt in light or dark it was in uniting the elf nation against what was to come.

Malekith was true heir in that the end times retconned he was a worthy chosen heir who washed out at the last minute. Even if he was meant to be King as someone else said the people who choose someone else over him were totally right to do so. As Malekith was the most horrible type of monster who ruined almost everything for the elves. 

Malekith was not intrested in Light or Dark correct. He was interested in power and being pretty much the most evil ****** possible. His big plan was to destroy the Vortex and drain it's power into himself. Doing so would allow the forces of Chaos to come into the world in earnest. (And as a side effect in the End Times free Sigmar)

When Teclis turned Traitor and made Malekith king and all of his horrible actions were forgiven for some reason, he was still an ******.

 

3 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Malekith didnt know she was worshipping slaanesh in end times.

good and evil are a different concept to order and chaos.

you can have an extremely evil being who will still demand order and hierarchy as well a a very good individual who follows no rules or believes in the cyclic nature of change and thus believes in the inherent nature of chaos.

Malekith totally knew. A good chunk of the fluff was about how he knew, but tolerated it. Though he did not tolerate it from anyone else.

And Indeed Good and Evil are different to Order and Chaos. I would put Malekith in the middle there in relation to Order and Chaos. 

But for the big factions of this game the Forces of Order are the good guys, and the Forces of Chaos are the main bad guys. However I would not put Malekith with ether of them. Likely him and his Shadow beings and Morathi will be their own thing, Similar to Death and Destruction. 

 

[skool]

They might give Death the shadow aelves if they do actually do them!

[Envyus]

21 minutes ago, skool said:

They might give Death the shadow aelves if they do actually do them!

I could seee Malekith work with Nagash. 

[Edgecoc]

8 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Hmmm are you sure ?

Page 113 of the rulebook there is this list of different Aeldari factions, the number 3 is clearly the rune of Slaanesh, no doubt, and the "redacted" means it's no existing faction. I remember people talking about that but I'm not sure.

Those Slaanesh Eldar get mentioned in the new Daemon Codex, so sounds like a 40k Cult of Slaanesh is definitely happening in the future. Hopefully this mean AoS is gonna get some Slaanesh elves as well. The old cult was my favourite army back in Fantasy, would really like to see how GW does official models for them as their own faction.

[Barbossal]

11 minutes ago, Edgecoc said:

Those Slaanesh Eldar get mentioned in the new Daemon Codex, so sounds like a 40k Cult of Slaanesh is definitely happening in the future. Hopefully this mean AoS is gonna get some Slaanesh elves as well. The old cult was my favourite army back in Fantasy, would really like to see how GW does official models for them as their own faction.

Hm, that actually makes a lot of sense. GW is pushing for a lot of army interconnectivity lately. It would make a lot of sense if you could rope in Slaanesh Chaos and some form of Eldar.