Do you even stormcast bro?

[Dave Fraser]

So from the get go I’ve been playing with the golden boys. 

 

Interestingly they seem seem to get a mixed reaction as to whether they are easy to play or not, I take this as an indicator of pretty good balance. 

Here’s the first custom deck I built:

[Dave Fraser]

Following in from that deck I have read the article on WH community and made the following tweaks. 

 

Unsleeved cards out, sleeves cards in. 

[Dave Fraser]

The deck is intended to be suitable for a tournament which influences my build.

1. Tournament scoring means simply winning isn't enough, I need to be able to post up a high score to compete in a large event which isn't just decided by W/L/D outcomes.

2. I want the list to have a little flexibility, it isn't all about scoring through objectives or killing or board control but contains all three.

3. It has a blend of objectives that can be scored through the game to generate glory to support my upgrades and those scored at the end of game to hopefully contribute to a high score (as these are generally the multi glory ones)

4. I've taken as many cards which can score glory as possible in my ploys/upgrades - again allows me to score big and also to have flexibility to score points in the worst case scenario of drawing 3 of my high glory objectives on my opening draw that I don't want to discard.

5. I have a couple of contingency objectives, in the event that my zone is swamped I can make an effort to jump into an opponents zone to try and grab some glory. (to be honest this is where I'm tempted to drop them and just put in some more low glory 'easy wins'.

6. Ploys are mostly to counter my extreme slowness & enable me to mess with positional play of both my & opponents force.

7. Upgrades are a mix of survivability and offence (& glory as above) such that I can hopefully tailor out to the situation.

 

The intent is that if everything is going right I can largely sit off my opponent and force them to come to me, if that is in my favour I can take my lumps and hopefully hit back harder.  If it's not something I like I can use my movement ploys to disengage and avoid the fight.

I only have 2 objective card in my deck (2&4 to pair with the keys) but because I only want 2 objectives I can take advantage of that by positioning the board to my advantage which benefits my stand off preference.  With 2 objectives I have a reasonable chance of hitting one of the two I want to get near me. And the recent addition of shardcaller unlocks the potential of flipping my objectives to get both the ones I want.

The added bonus of only 2 objectives is that effectively one of my 3 Stormcasts can become a throwaway unit, I can dump them into the fight to hold up and frustrate my opponent and still be able to achieve everything I want from the deck.

As most opponents can't take out a Stormcast in a single activation but many will die to a single hit from the Stormcasts means opponents often don't want to throw models in without getting some set up.  If you can limit your opponent to only a single charge in the first round they'll often hesitate to take it as it likely leads to a take out for you with little gain for them.  That means you are already down to only 8 activations where they  can attack you and pushes up the odds of the Stormcasts surviving which is important with oly 3 models.

The other thing I tend to do is having won the roll for who goes first in that first round - go second.  If only 1 model can charge me, then I'm not giving up much and it gives that all important last activation on the first turn with the potential for a double turn if the round 2 roll off goes right.  Exactly as AOS the double turn can give you a massive advantage if your opponent is caught out of position.

It's been working nicely for me so far after a few games but I really need to give it some more field testing against all factions.

 

 

[Drexel]

Hey buddy, I have run a similar defend and deny deck based on the following article,

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/07/defend-and-deny-dec-7gw-homepage-post-3/

Probably the same article you have read, it does work but the games can be a little dull, but hey if it works for you. Good luck with it and enjoy.....For Sigmar  !!!!! 

[Mournfang's mourning]

2 hours ago, Dave Fraser said:

1. Tournament scoring means simply winning isn't enough, I need to be able to post up a high score to compete in a large event which isn't just decided by W/L/D outcomes.

I have not been to a tournament so far. What are they decided on if not W/L/D? The total amount of glory you scored throughout your matches? Thanks

[Biboune]

There is some issues in my opinion: 5 round 3 objective cards. 3 objective cards needing to run away from the fight some that need you to puss for it the rest that aim you to get objectives.

On the paper it has a logic; Round 1 avoid the fight, round 2 and 3 kill everyone in your territory and/or get the objectives 2 and 4 with the keys. If you draw the card in the correct order it is ok, but what if you don't?

You may have to many things to do in the last round, 5 objective card, 2 keys, keeping the enemy in his territory, staying alive. But if the deck works, tell me; I am far less ambitious than you in my deck building.

[Killax]

21 hours ago, Dave Fraser said:

The deck is intended to be suitable for a tournament which influences my build.

1. Tournament scoring means simply winning isn't enough, I need to be able to post up a high score to compete in a large event which isn't just decided by W/L/D outcomes.

2. I want the list to have a little flexibility, it isn't all about scoring through objectives or killing or board control but contains all three.

3. It has a blend of objectives that can be scored through the game to generate glory to support my upgrades and those scored at the end of game to hopefully contribute to a high score (as these are generally the multi glory ones)

4. I've taken as many cards which can score glory as possible in my ploys/upgrades - again allows me to score big and also to have flexibility to score points in the worst case scenario of drawing 3 of my high glory objectives on my opening draw that I don't want to discard.

5. I have a couple of contingency objectives, in the event that my zone is swamped I can make an effort to jump into an opponents zone to try and grab some glory. (to be honest this is where I'm tempted to drop them and just put in some more low glory 'easy wins'.

6. Ploys are mostly to counter my extreme slowness & enable me to mess with positional play of both my & opponents force.

7. Upgrades are a mix of survivability and offence (& glory as above) such that I can hopefully tailor out to the situation.

 

The intent is that if everything is going right I can largely sit off my opponent and force them to come to me, if that is in my favour I can take my lumps and hopefully hit back harder.  If it's not something I like I can use my movement ploys to disengage and avoid the fight.

I only have 2 objective card in my deck (2&4 to pair with the keys) but because I only want 2 objectives I can take advantage of that by positioning the board to my advantage which benefits my stand off preference.  With 2 objectives I have a reasonable chance of hitting one of the two I want to get near me. And the recent addition of shardcaller unlocks the potential of flipping my objectives to get both the ones I want.

The added bonus of only 2 objectives is that effectively one of my 3 Stormcasts can become a throwaway unit, I can dump them into the fight to hold up and frustrate my opponent and still be able to achieve everything I want from the deck.

As most opponents can't take out a Stormcast in a single activation but many will die to a single hit from the Stormcasts means opponents often don't want to throw models in without getting some set up.  If you can limit your opponent to only a single charge in the first round they'll often hesitate to take it as it likely leads to a take out for you with little gain for them.  That means you are already down to only 8 activations where they  can attack you and pushes up the odds of the Stormcasts surviving which is important with oly 3 models.

The other thing I tend to do is having won the roll for who goes first in that first round - go second.  If only 1 model can charge me, then I'm not giving up much and it gives that all important last activation on the first turn with the potential for a double turn if the round 2 roll off goes right.  Exactly as AOS the double turn can give you a massive advantage if your opponent is caught out of position.

It's been working nicely for me so far after a few games but I really need to give it some more field testing against all factions.

 

 

First things first, it's great that you have a plan! To me it's step one to victory to have one and indeed going deeper into higher scores can potentially lead to tournament victory aswell.  In terms of your pointers, some reflections:

1. Certainly but unrealistic scoring is making winning games much harder. To cover your glory income, I think Eternals, Denial and Contained are a great trio of end game. I'm less a fan of Annihilation (it's simply unrealistic against Sepulchral Guard or Bloodreavers) and Conquest, the latter simply doesn't work well with Denial and Contained. The potential income generated out of Scavange and the Keys is very neat. Having said that though, again the plan between Denial and Contained and Keys is very much apart. You can't keep the neurtal clear and stand on Objectives.
2. Great choice and I believe it's the best choice for the game as your plan is less reliant on the initial board thaking coinflip (thus 3 or 2 Objectives).
3. Yep, though with 3 Objectives being our max hand I feel there is very little reason to go over 3 round 3 Objective cards. You simply can't store or keep them anywhere.
4. Yep, fine choice.
5. Yes, though as before Conquest is close to impossible to score with Stormcast.
6. Solid plan. Keep in mind though that there are several Upgrades who do this for you which I don't see in your deck...
7. Seems okay.

As above I like most of your plan. What I like less is the following cards:
- Army of One, it's a neat failsave but not required if your intend is to score max glory. More offense is a better plan.
- Cursed Artifact, the only fear this deck has is Cleave and Cursed Artifact does nothing for that weakness.
What I would consider instead is:
- Flickering Image (Brighthard has 3 attack dice and thus crits often and thus can hop 2 hexes often)
- Heroic Stride (additional movement is great).

- Cruel Taunt is not really needed.
- Sprint is not really needed (if you add Upgrades that increase your movement)
What I would consider instead is:
- Mighty Swing (open the potential to kill multiple models in one Attack action for massive Glory swings)
- Parry (this leads to an almost automatic Inspire and increases crit chances when Inspired allready)

With this kind of chances I think your well set up.

Cheers,

18 hours ago, Mournfang's mourning said:

I have not been to a tournament so far. What are they decided on if not W/L/D? The total amount of glory you scored throughout your matches? Thanks

Win/Loss/Draw. The total ammount of Glory scored is also kept as a tally for organized play indeed. For me it's a nice by product but I also believe in reliable scoring over peak-scoring  

[Requizen]

Having put Daylight Robbery in my deck, I have failed it every time I tried  I don't personally think it's better than Heroic Guard, which is extremely good against Orruks or other SCE. You won't always get a chance to steal a Glory, and you won't always succeed if you try, but being on Guard is almost always useful. 

 

I agree on dropping Army of One. It's super cool when it gets off, but it's such an edge case that you're better off with other stuff. I think Helpful Whispers might be worth trying to keep in though, reliability is key when our numbers are in such low counts.

[Dave Fraser]

Tweaked up my deck again. 

Pretty happy with the ploys. Tho I do miss scavenger. 

The big add is misdirection as I got my plans screwed up by distraction a couple of times so being able to bounce that elsewhere feels useful. 

Shattered terrain is an experiment but I wonder if taking 1 damage is a worthwhile trade off for being able to single shot stormcasts/orruks.

 

cursed artefact is now gone , often I was too reluctant to use it as the wound meant I got one shotted more often and I’d rather take a hit and always survive than have a higher chance of surviving but if I don’t it’s more significant. Swapped helpful whispers back in for it.

 

Objectives ive found I’ve cycled my deck often enough that 4x3 pointers is actually a detriment to early turns. With only 3 obj cards scored at the end of r3 I’m more flexible now.

That said I’m not a huge fan of some of what I’ve put in, will need to test if I’d be better with hold objective [x]. 

[CodFather]

Regarding the hold objective deck, it seems a little bit at odds with each.  On one hand, you have eternals, bloodless and sigmars bulwark, these contribute to a very defensive and conservative gameplan.  On the other hand, you have crushing force, awe inspiring and lightening strikes, which reward a more aggressive plan.  I can see how having both options perhaps affords you some flexibilty, but 12 activations is so short that having a hyperfocused gameplan/win condition might be better.  To be fair tho, I've only play ~50 so I'm still figuring stuff out

[Biboune]

I think that mixing both aggressive and hold objective cards is ok. In a other hand: denial and contained seems to me quite strange in your deck. Superior tactician doesn't need you to keep your opponent in his territory and it is also a third round round card and 3 glory points card. You look like wanting to score a lot of easy objective cards, it sound nice with Superior tactician.

May be confusion could be nice, with sprint or illusionary fighter: grabbing an objective in the opponent territory without having to fight. Nice third round action, countering opponent denial or contained. Plant a standard (there is a stormcast card which is quite the same, i forgot the name) could combo with it.

 

( i like shattering terrain: a costy but more trustful +1 damage: you can use it with tireless assault, you can puss again a model with distraction to finish it, you can use it with steelheart's mighty swing for each models pushed, with illusionary fighter you can get to position without being hurt by it)

[CodFather]

50 minutes ago, Biboune said:

Plant a standard (there is a stormcast card which is quite the same, i forgot the name)

Stormcast one is waaaaaay easier to score.  Doesn't have to be your leader holding an objective in your enemies territory, it can be any friendly fighter

[Dave Fraser]

17 hours ago, CodFather said:

Regarding the hold objective deck, it seems a little bit at odds with each.  On one hand, you have eternals, bloodless and sigmars bulwark, these contribute to a very defensive and conservative gameplan.  On the other hand, you have crushing force, awe inspiring and lightening strikes, which reward a more aggressive plan.  I can see how having both options perhaps affords you some flexibilty, but 12 activations is so short that having a hyperfocused gameplan/win condition might be better.  To be fair tho, I've only play ~50 so I'm still figuring stuff out

As a starter I've probably played less games than you, so take my opinion with due consideration.

 

Why the deck works is because it can switch up.  If you play it deep and defensively it doesn't work, if Stormcasts all start to play that way you'll see a  surge of contained&denial in other peoples decks and they'll build to counter the non-engagement approach.

 

What my deck does is slowplay T1 and try to get a few easy win objectives to punt upgrades on, as soon as I'm able to oneshot people (3 cards in the deck allow you to do this to anyone but Gurzag) I get very aggressive with them.  That's why I have so many movement cards in the deck, to make it very difficult for an opponent to just range me out. Once you've got 2 stormcasts up in your opponents grill threatening takeouts it's very hard for them to put pressure on the contained/denial objectives.

 

With the objective based decks it's still max 3 objectives in their zone unless you choose to put yours close to them and with the FAQ on spacing they're likely to not be consistently on the back board edge.  Shardcaller increases the chance of them getting what they need but if they're playing shardcaller and the keys then you absolutely can outfight their warband on the table because the upgrades that help them fight aren't getting played. So work the odds on them managing to score 2,4 and 1,2 or 3,4 and typically that's not that high a chance of them getting 6+ pts out of those cards compared to you being relatively consistently able to bank 6 for the denial/contained combo.

 

Also within my deck I also have shardcaller and the keys so, to an extent I can trade off to partially match their scoring output on objectives.  I'm not really certain this is the best way to play it, but if I got the ability to get shardcaller out early and they don't then I'll happily try and have objectives 2 & 4 down my end.

 

I'm not claiming I've got a hard counter for that style of deck, but I feel I have a decent chance of going against it and not consistently losing.