Should I still buy Gutbusters

[Niltzsche]

Or: What is it with GW and Ogors?

Iam honestly weirded out by how GW handled the Ogors this year. On the plus side, the Beastclaws got a Start collecting box. But on the negative side: big nerf for the Beastclaws in a competive setting, weird wording of the reworked Stone Skelleton abbility, no Gutbuster Alliegence Abbilities and the Ogors are specifically excluded in the Firestorm Campain.

That whole jazz came in to my mind when I saw that a local store still got the old Ogre Battallion (the one with six Bulls, six Ironguts and six Leadbelches in it) in stock. While certainly tempted to buy it I am not quite sure if the miniatures will see a lot of playtime. Right now it just feels like GW either forgot about the Ogors or is unhappy about them being still in the game (an elite faction seems hard to balance as it seems).  If that won't change I might keep my Beastclaws as an Showcase army but investing in Gutbusters right now... seems risky.

What do you guys think about the whole thematic? Does anyone else feel like fhat or do you oppose? Would you buy that darn battallion (without overthinking it)?

[PlasticCraic]

Personally I would be very cautious about buying into them - GW is giving you no incentive whatsoever to invest in them.  GH17 was meant to give a little bit of love to factions that aren't getting their own Battletome any time soon - the absence of anything whatsoever for Ogors could be taken as a sign that they ARE getting a Battletome soon (I wish you good luck with that), or more likely (given, as you said, that they were excluded from Firestorm) that they are being completely dumped for the foreseeable future.

The only thing I disagree with is the Stone Skeleton ability - I think it's pretty clearly worded?  I've not known any disputes over it.  

[someone2040]

So I'll put it this way. I don't think Ogors have been ignored. I think it's fine that they didn't play any part in Firestorm. The non-Order factions are all based around a particular theme, and in this case, Ogors didn't fit the theme. That's fine, I'm ok with that.

 

As for whether or not you should collect Gutbusters. In my opinion, Gutbusters are one of the more healthier factions. Whether or not they'll ever get a battletome, lets put that aside (But it should be something you consider). The faction has 2 heroes (one fighter one caster/synergy piece), a bunch of infantry units, cheap horde unit in grots, shooting units, as well as deployment shenaningans in Gorgers. They also have access to interesting enough allies in other Ogors, Gargants and Troggoths.

So overall I think the faction is pretty well rounded, and hence (as long as you're fine with painting a bunch of similar Ogor models) is a pretty collectable faction in the scheme of things.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW decide to give them allegiance abilities in the GHB2018 if they aren't in the pipeline for an actual release.

 

That being said, there are some concerns. I would've thought that Gutbusters would be a pretty prime candidate for allegiance abilities in GHB2017 (Along with Greenskinz to be honest). In particular with the Gutbusters, this perhaps suggests that they don't really know what 'direction' they want to take the Gutbusters. This in a way is a problem with the more generic factions, is they lack identity to a certain extent.

[svnvaldez]

I would only recommend buying an army with a current battletome. At most, look to ally in 400 points of Gutbusters into a current army.

[heywoah_twitch]

4 hours ago, someone2040 said:

So overall I think the faction is pretty well rounded,

i see what you did there 

 

[Niltzsche]

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

The only thing I disagree with is the Stone Skeleton ability - I think it's pretty clearly worded?  I've not known any disputes over it.  

Ah ok, I chose the wrong words to describe it. Its just how the abbility works now, especially since wounds and mortal wounds are handled differently. It is usually the abillity it takes the longest to explain and left me with several opponents who (like me) said it got reworked weirdly in the FAQ. 

 

Furthermore thanks for the input untill now. Especially someone2040, who puts it in a perspective I did not consider. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

Someone2040 has it dead on they’re a well rounded faction that has got pretty much all the bases covered.  

Don’t forget the linked factions, maneaters and firebellies they’re quite fun. 

Ironguts are great as well I sometimes stick a unit in with my mixed Orruks. They hit like a steam train. 

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I would jump right in.  They are great models still and from where I'm sitting, arguably one of the more complete factions in Destruction right now.

Good battleline units with a variety of options, from heavily armed/armored Ogors to weedy Grot hordes.  Missile troops, multiple war machines, fighty and caster heroes.  Missing cav, true centerpiece, and monsters, each of which can be seamlessly added via allies without looking out of place (i.e. Old ogre kingdoms units).  Maneaters are still really cool as well.

Seem like a more complete model line than either IJ or Bonesplitterz. 

 

[Moonlightwolf]

Much as I'd love a proper battletome for gutbusters, they still feel pretty good to play as is. Admittedly I don't really play competitively, but the damage even just 3 ogor bulls can do makes them pretty great.  3 attacks each dealing 2 damage can be monstrous. four wounds a piece makes them pretty resilient too. Also as their grots have the GUTBUSTERS keyword you can use the Tyrant's command ability to make an entire 40 model unit of grots immune to battleshock for potentially the duration of the game for the price of 1-3 grot casualties, so they do have some competitive tricks up their sleeves. Ironguts are kind of overpriced points wise but generally the army has lots of unit variety with war machines, decent heroes, ranged support and a really hard-hitting core. I like to add in a gargant or two as allies because fun. My current army is mixed destruction but makes use of the ogor bulls as battleline because they're just good fun.

[Kramer]

18 hours ago, Niltzsche said:

What do you guys think about the whole thematic? Does anyone else feel like fhat or do you oppose? Would you buy that darn battallion (without overthinking it)?

yes yes a thousand times yes  

No, in honesty. I wouldn't ditch my current project for it. But I already own a Gutbusters army and it's great fun to play with and against. otherwise I would definitely get the box. 

They see plenty of playtime (either by myself or friends) and I still keep adding to them. Partly from a modelling challenge. Currently looking to convert a base for my butcher so he has his own cauldron. That battalion will be a perfect start to the army. Just a hero away from playing a few games, maybe ally in a Hunter and make a champion the general. Although Butcher are very good in my opinion. 

[Kessler]

Additionally, if i remember correctly, there are 6 ogors, 6 ironguts and 4 leadbelchers. They are fielded in units of 3, so you can convert one into tyrant or butcher. 

Ogors are great for simple conversions.  

[Niltzsche]

3 hours ago, Kessler said:

Additionally, if i remember correctly, there are 6 ogors, 6 ironguts and 4 leadbelchers. They are fielded in units of 3, so you can convert one into tyrant or butcher. 

Ogors are great for simple conversions.  

Oh right my bad. 

Well seems like I got a bit to salty on the Ogor thematic. Thanks for the feedback. 

[kozokus]

That beeing said, Gutbusters are currently a very cheap army to field. 30€ for 200/240 army point is a steal compared to most recent armies (50€ for 200 or even worse is far more common) Sure Finecast heroes are garbage but you should convert them from regular ogors anyway.

Also, Gutbusters can be surprising. The heroes are decent, The units are moderatly fast, pack some punch, have some rend, can compete in shooting.

The whole army have  a-1 Bravery aura and a 6++ against magic or shooting on some units.

They lack pure resistance with mediocre saves and are veeeery unreliable as the whole army hit on 4+ which means it is all or nothing when you swing.

Also consider going Destruction (so bad for Irongut battleline) and ponder the use of the Overtyran. He is like Destiny dice, but for the opponent and it is quite interesting to see him fail at the most critical moment.  In the same way, the Bruiser-banner is quite impressive. He is like a half-Celestantprime with his cometfall.

 

[Infeston]

I thought I was the only one with these concerns. I also had hoped for Gutbusters to be in GHB2017 and was also sad that non of the Ogor factions were featured in the main story or in Firestorm. I really like my Ogors and would be happier if they would reimagine those factions.

But I am concerned that they will get the Tomb Kings treatment. The GHB2017 was a good reminder for me how any old faction can be completely destroyed if GW wants. So I hope that they will get a reimagination with a lot of new fluff (or maybe also get new models :-D) but I also lost hope that something like this will happen. 

[Warboss Gorbolg]

The models are too new and too good to get phased out IMO.  There is also relatively little finecast.  Most importantly, Ogre Kingdoms was reportedly a pretty big seller in 8th edition.

I think they will get the Bonesplitterz treatment at some point, which will be awesome as I never really liked the gluttony theme.  Gutbusters appeared in one of the Realmgate novels, but it was in the nameless bad-guy role.  

I don't see a real incentive to phase them out. Tomb Kings had a lot of old sculpts, plenty of finecast and was reportedly always a poor seller.  I also think that the strong Egyptian theme and real world references are something GW really wants to eliminate throughout the AOS line (i.e. A big factor why Bretonnia was probably discontinued as well).  For instance, I would hesitate to start Free Peoples from scratch for the same reason.

[sirflukesalot]

one thing to note: leadbelchers and ironguts have been out of stock for about a month now IMO i think those boxes are getting re-boxed. which would also lay into the rumours that there may be a Battletome coming for them next year

[Niltzsche]

18 hours ago, sirflukesalot said:

one thing to note: leadbelchers and ironguts have been out of stock for about a month now IMO i think those boxes are getting re-boxed. which would also lay into the rumours that there may be a Battletome coming for them next year

It could be, and it would be great but those boxes have been out of stock for several month earlier.

By the way I did buy the battallion. Got a nice discount on it as well.

[Kramer]

19 hours ago, sirflukesalot said:

one thing to note: leadbelchers and ironguts have been out of stock for about a month now IMO i think those boxes are getting re-boxed. which would also lay into the rumours that there may be a Battletome coming for them next year

Thought the same about my dwarfs a half year ago ;), So I wouldn't count on it, read some rumours about there being problems with the production somewhere. On the other hand also read that it GW was planning to sell all their remaining stock on square bases and only then rebox. I reckon the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

New 40k stuff, new AoS stuff, maybe even printing Shadespire in the same factories is all pressing on the production capabilities and then it's less of a priority of reboxing old models if you still have stock. Would make sense from a business standpoint but it's me just tying some rumours together that might be very very wrong

 

[sirflukesalot]

Just now, Kramer said:

Thought the same about my dwarfs a half year ago ;), So I wouldn't count on it, read some rumours about there being problems with the production somewhere. On the other hand also read that it GW was planning to sell all their remaining stock on square bases and only then rebox. I reckon the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

New 40k stuff, new AoS stuff, maybe even printing Shadespire in the same factories is all pressing on the production capabilities and then it's less of a priority of reboxing old models if you still have stock. Would make sense from a business standpoint but it's me just tying some rumours together that might be very very wrong

 

Well obviously im working on rumours as well but it would make sense considering that the top 2 theorised armies for release early next year are death and gutbusters. 

Thankfully i have managed to grab a couple sprues for ironguts from some friends but they are going to be a pain to collect if they stay out of stock for a while.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, sirflukesalot said:

Well obviously im working on rumours as well but it would make sense considering that the top 2 theorised armies for release early next year are death and gutbusters. 

Thankfully i have managed to grab a couple sprues for ironguts from some friends but they are going to be a pain to collect if they stay out of stock for a while.

I would love it but not getting my hopes up  luckily for me I’m set on ironguts and bulls so I’m good. 

Still hoping for elves as well though.