Ability effects on Battleshock

[Jimbo]

The Dark Rider ability Sow Terror and Confusion (StaC) lets the Aelf player roll a dice and add it to the battleshock test if the battleshock roller rolls a one.

The Carnosaur Bloodroar ability allows the Seraphon player to roll a dice if an enemy unit takes a battleshock test and if the seraphons roll is higher than the battleshock testers roll, an additional D3 models flee (in addition to any fleeing from a failed battleshock test).

 

Does StaC mean that the Broar ability is neutered by increasing the dice roll of the battleshock tester or are these ability a referring to separate parts of the battleshock phase?

StaC refers to the battleshock test, Broar refers to the players dice roll.

(Am I getting into bearer and wielder territory again...??)

 

cheers

Jimbo

[graemelyon]

Hrm. Interesting. 

My read on this would be that both apply as written. Key thing for me is that the Carnosaur's ability is separate from the actual Battleshock test results. The way I'd suggest playing this if my opponent brought it against me would be:

1) I roll my Battleshock dice. 

2) my opponent rolls for the Carnosaur's ability against whatever result I rolled. 

3) I remove whatever casualties come from that, and set them aside. They will NOT be counted against the Battleshock test itself. 

4) If I rolled a '1', my opponent rolls their dice for the Dark Riders.

5) Battleshock proceeds as normal, ignoring the models removed by the Carnosaur's roar when counting casualties .

That makes sense to me, and seems fair. Both rules have been applied as they're written, without having to get into complex, and almost certainly unintended, interactions that muddy either one. Thoughts?

[BaldoBeardo]

Separate bits, but in terms of calculation, not sequence. T&C refers to the roll, Broar is based on the result. Battleshock is worked out on the total.

So if opponent rolls a 1 for Battleshock, T&C triggers and is added to the result.

Broar is then triggered regardless, but if T&C was triggered then Broar is compared to the total of the two rolls.

So yes, T&C neuters Broar a bit by making it harder to beat the result.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Jimbo]

Even though Broar specifically says 'the result on your opponents dice'?  That's the wording that makes me think it's not actually part of the battleshock test itself.

[Jimbo]

Yes, that works in the Aelf/Seraphon turn as that player would choose the order in which abilities are applied.

In opponents phase, could they insist on the StaC being applied first?

[SuperHappyTime]

This seems mostly goofy, but I think the answer is in identifying whose dice (can we get some good english, it's die when it's only one).

With STaC it's you, the Aelf General, that rolls the die and then adds it to the battleshock test. 

The Carnosaur refers to the opponent's battleshock die roll.

If he rolls a one on a battleshock test, your Carnosaur roll only has to beat a one, even if your STaC roll was a six.

[Jimbo]

Apologies for the grammatical error and the over elaborate descriptions.

 

Your interpretation is how I read it but I can see it being one of those things that gets ruled against in tourneys if it's not cleared up beforehand.

 

[graemelyon]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

Yes, that works in the Aelf/Seraphon turn as that player would choose the order in which abilities are applied.

In opponents phase, could they insist on the StaC being applied first?

I suppose they could, but it shouldn't make a difference given the wording, so there's no reason for them to do so. 

 

42 minutes ago, SuperHappyTime said:

This seems mostly goofy, but I think the answer is in identifying whose dice (can we get some good english, it's die when it's only one).

Interestingly, in modern standard English, 'dice' is the commonly used singular form as well as the plural. 'Die' is, of course, perfectly acceptable, but is increasingly seen as archaic.

[mhsellwood]

On 22/06/2016 at 10:37 PM, graemelyon said:

Hrm. Interesting. 

My read on this would be that both apply as written. Key thing for me is that the Carnosaur's ability is separate from the actual Battleshock test results. The way I'd suggest playing this if my opponent brought it against me would be:

1) I roll my Battleshock dice. 

2) my opponent rolls for the Carnosaur's ability against whatever result I rolled. 

3) I remove whatever casualties come from that, and set them aside. They will NOT be counted against the Battleshock test itself. 

4) If I rolled a '1', my opponent rolls their dice for the Dark Riders.

5) Battleshock proceeds as normal, ignoring the models removed by the Carnosaur's roar when counting casualties .

That makes sense to me, and seems fair. Both rules have been applied as they're written, without having to get into complex, and almost certainly unintended, interactions that muddy either one. Thoughts?

Agreed on this process. I think the advantage also of this interpretation is that it does not make either ability any better or worse than when they are not interacting, and is consistent no matter whose turn it is.