10 Retributors + Vexillor vs 25 Auric Hearthguard + Runesmiter

[Andreas]

I was thinking of alternatives to the teleporting Retributors for taking out key enemy models and something a thought of was tunneling Fyreslayers. 

10 Retributors + Vexillor costs 32 SCGT

When they teleport in they do on average 12.5 wounds on a 3+ save opponent. Plus the blast. Correct me if my mathhammer is wrong.

25 Auric Hearthguard + Runesmiter cost 31 SCGT

When they tunnel up within 15” from the target they do on average 8.3 wounds on a 3+ save opponent. If you have a Fyreslayer hero next to the target they do 11 wounds.

If you get the next turn or they survive to the next turn, they do on average 18 wounds if you get the Runesmiter close to the target and put the Runic Empowerment on them first.

What do you think? Can the tunneling Fyreslayers work or is there something essential to the Retributor combo that the Hearthgueard lacks that I have missed?

Retributors do more damage the first round but I would think it’s harder to defend against Hearthguard who shoots 15” and they do more damage the next turn if they are still alive. And on a 5+ the target if it is a monster halves its movement and gets -1 to hit.

[amysrevenge]

Both come out to 63.... Just saying....

[mhsellwood]

I think there are at least two advantages of the Retributor strike compared to the Hearthguard one is a question of space - 10 Retributors take a lot less space than 25 Hearthgaurd, so are more likely to appear near the target and so do their thing. The next is that the Retributors are doing mortal wounds - it is reasonably likely that a key model will have better than a 3+ save at which point the damage advantage is clearly with the Retributors.

The Hearthguard have other advantages. They provide a good quality ranged attack, and in the Forge Lord battalion give out saving throw buffs. The Runesmiter is also a different beast to the Vexillor - the vexillor is a one (super-charged) trick pony, where the Runesmiter offers a couple of different bonuses to the army.

Also, your choice may be informed by looks and what is in the rest of your army. 

[Andreas]

The lack of mortal wounds might be a deal breaker. But 3+ save might be relevant if you manage to go first.

Another big advantage for hearthguard is that everyone have seen or heard of the teleporting retributors but at last I havent heard of anyone using the hearthguard alfastrike and I was curius why.

It would be very interesting how an army with 3 runesmithers and large blocks of tunneling fyreslayers would do in a really competitative enviroment. I hope someone tries it and tell about it.

[Gaz Taylor]

I think the deal breaker will be when the Generals Handbook comes out if you are comparing them like this.  

[yarrickson]

Well I've never seen the teleporting retributors without a lord castellant to put the warding lantern on pre-teleport. Then the retributors have a 3+ and heal wound on 6's. Compared to the 5+ of the auric Hearthguard, they are a lot tankier. 

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said:

I think the deal breaker will be when the Generals Handbook comes out if you are comparing them like this.  

Yes ofcourse 100 Hearthguard are better than 10 retributors. 

But lets hope that 25 Hearthguard would be similary priced. ?

[Andreas]

2 hours ago, yarrickson said:

Well I've never seen the teleporting retributors without a lord castellant to put the warding lantern on pre-teleport. Then the retributors have a 3+ and heal wound on 6's. Compared to the 5+ of the auric Hearthguard, they are a lot tankier. 

Sure, there must be a reason 10 retributors are the prevalent choice. But just to try to talk up the Hearthguard a bit, you dont get to hit back against them. And fyreslayers have a formation that gives you +3 on the turn roll.

[Andreas]

That formation you could ofcourse combine with Retributors also. I am thining to much oldschool. ?

[yarrickson]

38 minutes ago, Andreas said:

Sure, there must be a reason 10 retributors are the prevalent choice. But just to try to talk up the Hearthguard a bit, you dont get to hit back against them. And fyreslayers have a formation that gives you +3 on the turn roll.

A formation that at present doesn't work under SCGT rules because you're not allowed to adjust the initiative roll. :-( but yeah point taken. There are reasons to take both/either. Except that one of them hits harder, is tougher and less easy to counter, and sadly that is the retributors. :-p

PS, I already have ten magmic tunneling Hearthguard and another ten are on my to do list, so I agree that in faction the tunnelling Hearthguard are excellent. 

[Veterannoob]

I'm a solo Fyreslayer player and I tunnel at least once, if not usually twice each game. I used to tunnel aurics and I can always keep that option IF I need to shoot troops off objectives or something when there is not a looming close threat, I say that because they are super squishy. 25 helps battleshock but you arrive in the move phase so smiter missed hero phase to enchant you. If a hero is within the range you pop up you hit on 3+ but just some things to consider:) 

 

Best, and looking forward to hearing how it turns out for you.

[Marc Wilson]

With Retributors I often feel like I need to take first turn but certainly with Aurics taking the second turn is the winner. Rather than sneaking round the flanks or sides you could hang them out 15" in front and hope to get the double turn. If not then the opponent will surely want to deal with them and may well be forced into things he wasn't planning, leaving him exposed to counters. If you do get the double turn you can lay those hero phase buffs on them. As a slight aside RuneSmiter + 25 Aurics is 600 points - 40 points cheaper than the VEX-RET combo.