Fungrim Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 1 hour ago, N_Watson said: Maybe Ironjawz allegiance stuff coming soon? One can hope, though I suspect it is an oversight. You fed it back to them yet? I've not but I will do at some point. I was hoping it was intentional because we're getting new abilities too. Unless it means it slows us down a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Also, you can't make any model your general in the app. Only a leader. Your list isn't valid without a general either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Personally I wouldn't read too much into these things. They are likely errors/bugs/oversights etc. Feed it back and see if it gets updated/amended. I think I will wait for a bit more polish before subscribing. Sounds like it has great potential though for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 So i am just bumping this thread to get a bit more discussion going from the Jawz community on playing without the Megabrutes and adapting to this shooting heavy meta. I'm preparing for my next tournament where the Megabrute unit has been banned for "fluff" reasons. Been trying similar lists, but with the Megaboss or the Cabbage as general with brutes no bigger than 10. I'm getting on ok with it to be honest, but it just doesn't feel as good. Been considering more Goregruntas just for the turn one charge to put the pressure on early. Make them deal with that while the brutes catch up. Anyone else been trying stuff out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 9 hours ago, N_Watson said: Been considering more Goregruntas just for the turn one charge to put the pressure on early. Make them deal with that while the brutes catch up. Anyone else been trying stuff out? Wish I could give you an answer, but I've actually been thinking the same thing. In the end, they are not heavy hitters unless I have hot dice, but they do give some nice speed to the army on turn one as you said. Would be fun to have at least 9 of them, 15 brutes, 20 ardboyz, x2 megaboss, chanter, weirdnob, ironfist batallion = 1980/2000. Would you play 9 in one, 3x3 or a 6 and a 3 of the gruntas, adapting the ardboyz either as one 20 or 2x10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Lysandestolpe said: Would you play 9 in one, 3x3 or a 6 and a 3 of the gruntas, adapting the ardboyz either as one 20 or 2x10? Probably 3x3 to give more control and more targeted to be shot at. Still don't want to drop my Maw-Krusha. Going to need to try some games without though i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 16 hours ago, N_Watson said: So i am just bumping this thread to get a bit more discussion going from the Jawz community on playing without the Megabrutes and adapting to this shooting heavy meta. I'm preparing for my next tournament where the Megabrute unit has been banned for "fluff" reasons. Been trying similar lists, but with the Megaboss or the Cabbage as general with brutes no bigger than 10. I'm getting on ok with it to be honest, but it just doesn't feel as good. Been considering more Goregruntas just for the turn one charge to put the pressure on early. Make them deal with that while the brutes catch up. Anyone else been trying stuff out? I just got back from Heat 2 and the Megabrute was invaluable as always. Was pondering on the way home how I'd change it when the GH2 comes in/tourney's begin comping it out, and figure the most straight forward thing to do would be to make the Warchanter (or Shaman) the general, and pin him directly behind the Brutes (or thereabouts, if he's got Bellowing Tyrant, within an inch or two, if not, just at 10" for his +1). This allows the cabbage and Megaboss to work as normal without worrying about looking after the big Brute unit. On the flip-side however, and I know some of the more experienced players have been talking about it a bit on here but I'm not sure how well it's worked, is MSU Brutefist. To be honest, then the importance of the general in our army diminishes rapidly I think. I'm sure others will chime in here with actual working experience in this department though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysandestolpe Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 5 hours ago, N_Watson said: Probably 3x3 to give more control and more targeted to be shot at. Still don't want to drop my Maw-Krusha. Going to need to try some games without though i guess. Dude, me neither. The model is sooo cool! But I don't want to sacrifice the brutes or ardboyz either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 On 09/04/2017 at 4:49 PM, N_Watson said: So i am just bumping this thread to get a bit more discussion going from the Jawz community on playing without the Megabrutes and adapting to this shooting heavy meta. I'm preparing for my next tournament where the Megabrute unit has been banned for "fluff" reasons. Been trying similar lists, but with the Megaboss or the Cabbage as general with brutes no bigger than 10. I'm getting on ok with it to be honest, but it just doesn't feel as good. Been considering more Goregruntas just for the turn one charge to put the pressure on early. Make them deal with that while the brutes catch up. Anyone else been trying stuff out? I've been using my Masters list (with the Shaman over 2nd Chanter as I have been since Sheffield), but switching down the 15 Megabrutes to a 10 and 5, with the Cabbage as the General. It's the easiest fix, and is ok, but it's not at all the same list. Without that unit the army works soooo differently, more so than you'd expect. The loss of the 3rd Gore-choppa is huge and clearly we don't need to mention Battleshock. I dunno, I guess it needs more than an easy fix! I intend to build and paint more Gore-gruntas in the near future. Since the turn of the year my opinion has shifted from 1x6 to 2x3. In part I don't want to worry myself too much as the GH2 is bound to shake things up a little bit. On 10/04/2017 at 9:16 AM, Fungrim said: I just got back from Heat 2 and the Megabrute was invaluable as always. Was pondering on the way home how I'd change it when the GH2 comes in/tourney's begin comping it out, and figure the most straight forward thing to do would be to make the Warchanter (or Shaman) the general, and pin him directly behind the Brutes (or thereabouts, if he's got Bellowing Tyrant, within an inch or two, if not, just at 10" for his +1). This allows the cabbage and Megaboss to work as normal without worrying about looking after the big Brute unit. In an ideal world, this would be the perfect fix, for the reasons you say about the Megaboss/Cabbage being able to operate at full capacity (ie not babysitting). However, in this current AoS (Age of Shooting - is that a thing? It should be a thing. I'm making it a thing!) I feel these soft 6 wound models will get taken off straight away, leaving us in a right mess! I just don't see it working, but would be loved to be proved wrong. I have no GH experience of the Brutefist (although weirdly, it's all I played pre GH with my Ironjawz!). @Sangfroid is your man for that. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 On 10/04/2017 at 7:44 AM, N_Watson said: Still don't want to drop my Maw-Krusha. Going to need to try some games without though i guess. I honestly don't think we can drop him at the moment. Cabbage with Talisman gives us something completely different to the rest of the list and is a real handful for some armies. I went through a spell last year without him and it just didn't pan out like I hoped. I do now have 30 painted Brutes that rarely see play at the same time haha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: I honestly don't think we can drop him at the moment. Cabbage with Talisman gives us something completely different to the rest of the list and is a real handful for some armies. Ye, I know what you mean. At my last event, and every game since, he got more done than the brutes, but that is because he was underestimated and the Megabrutes are scarier. Now without the Megabrutes, I don't know if he will be able to get as much done. 9 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: I've been using my Masters list (with the Shaman over 2nd Chanter as I have been since Sheffield), but switching down the 15 Megabrutes to a 10 and 5, with the Cabbage as the General. It's the easiest fix, and is ok, but it's not at all the same list. Without that unit the army works soooo differently, more so than you'd expect. The loss of the 3rd Gore-choppa is huge and clearly we don't need to mention Battleshock. I dunno, I guess it needs more than an easy fix! I tried this as well, as it was naturally what I had painted. It does play differently, but not sure still. I think in my next game I will try going down to 10 brutes in one unit, 2x3 Gore Gruntas and 2x 10 Ardboys, just to see if the extra bodies help with the objective. I have also considered dropping the Megaboss on foot (as sad as this is) and the Ironfist to give enough points for either a 2nd warchanter and shaman or another 180 point unit. Would obviously have to go for Ravager in this case and play the Maw Krusha back for the first turn at least. As much as this has all been tried before, the meta has changed with the last two battletomes and I actually feel we are in an OK spot with my own experiences. If we focus on the objective early on, these shooting heavy lists can struggle to catch up turn 4 and 5. Just my experience any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: In an ideal world, this would be the perfect fix, for the reasons you say about the Megaboss/Cabbage being able to operate at full capacity (ie not babysitting). However, in this current AoS (Age of Shooting - is that a thing? It should be a thing. I'm making it a thing!) I feel these soft 6 wound models will get taken off straight away, leaving us in a right mess! I just don't see it working, but would be loved to be proved wrong. I have no GH experience of the Brutefist (although weirdly, it's all I played pre GH with my Ironjawz!). @Sangfroid is your man for that. I quite like the 'Age of Sniping' one - has multiple meanings.... Yeah you're absolutely right, the Warchanter would become even more of a target, and although he's not hugely weak, he's squishy enough when it comes to Skyfires and Warp Lightning. I already find my Megaboss on foot getting pinged off early doors, especially as he's got Battle Brew. Do you really need the Brutefist to do MSU Brutes? I think Ironfist + 5x5 Brutes would work quite well as it is, the Brutefist looks (from afar) a bit hit & miss. Just as an aside, I know I was talking about taking 3 Megabosses to Heat 2 - I didn't in the end as I got my hands on a Maw-Krusha (I really, really don't regret it!). There was a chap at the tourney with 5 (FIVE) Megabosses though! Not sure of his name, he might even be on here(?). It looked awesome, not sure how it did on the table though.... There was another guy on the top 10 tables toward the end of the weekend with an Ironjawz list, and I think he had somewhere in the region of 30 Ardboyz across 2 units. I should really do a write-up of it, it was interesting to see the variety of Ironjawz about (as well as Ian Gilmore's amazing army). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garxia Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Coming from @Chris Tomlin post, counting with the more than probably future ban of Megabrutes as general and barring any special event conditions/rules... What would be the best option as general in an standard 2k list (Krusha, Megaboss, Weirdnob, Warchanter & Ironfist)? Megaboss seems the best of the worst option, he can stick bellowing tyrant on brutes, waagh if necesary and has his own brutes buff, but on the other hand, making him general will make him less able to krumpin safely and maybe he can't be using his brew. Also a bit squishy if focused. Krusha with talisman? Warchanter? Would love to get some opinions of more experienced Megabosses on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Quote Krusha with talisman? This. It's a sad state of affairs, but under the SCGT pack this is probably the best option. If you can mix it up, then the Greenskinz boss on Wyvern is cheaper and cost efficient (again with Talisman). The battleplans (removal of the one that blocked pew pew line of sight, general is a scoring unit in one battleplan), agendas and the new releases all favour Age of Sniping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I've got a 1500pts tournament in three weeks and wondered about doing the following list: Leaders: - Two megabosses with battlebrew: 140x2pts. TO restricts a leader to be the general so one of them. -Three warchanters. 80x3pts. Battleline: - 3x10 ardboyz. 20 with dual choppas, 10 with big choppas. 180x3 pts, not sure if combining the 20-men mob. -2x5 brutes, bossmen with klaw and basha. Pretty confident I want them split. 180x2pts. -Battallion. Ironfist, brute boss or , if I go 20-boyz, an ardboy boss will be batallion leader. 60pts The missions will be border war, blood and glory and 3 places of power in that specific order. We must go with a pure alleigance army, batallions that mix alleigance are banned, and shooting in or out of CQC is banned. I think that with this I've got a decent enough mix of map-control/bodies/attack power/heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Garxia said: Coming from @Chris Tomlin post, counting with the more than probably future ban of Megabrutes as general and barring any special event conditions/rules... What would be the best option as general in an standard 2k list (Krusha, Megaboss, Weirdnob, Warchanter & Ironfist)? Megaboss seems the best of the worst option, he can stick bellowing tyrant on brutes, waagh if necesary and has his own brutes buff, but on the other hand, making him general will make him less able to krumpin safely and maybe he can't be using his brew. Also a bit squishy if focused. Krusha with talisman? Warchanter? Would love to get some opinions of more experienced Megabosses on the subject. Hey @Garxia, As discussed in my topic, I do think the Cabbage with Talisman is currently the best we have (certainly so under SCGT). It's a shame as I think you're right, the Megaboss makes the most sense doesn't it? He can wander around with the Brutes and provide the necessary buffs etc. It's sad to think that a 7 wound, 3+ save model is soft/vulnerable as General, but the fact of the matter is right now; he is! I know @DeadlySarcasm has been using the Talisman on a foot Megaboss, though his General is a Wyvern. Still might be an option? Unfortunately I couldn't bring myself to consider either a Shaman or Warchanter, way way too soft unfortunately. @KillagoreFaceslasha - Love the triple Warchanters. In that MSU style list it's better than 1 Warchanter and a Shaman IMO. That'll be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 2 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said: Ironfist, brute boss or , if I go 20-boyz, an ardboy boss will be batallion leader. 60pts Hey, just to make you aware, only a brute boss or gore grunta boss can be the ironfist boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 31 minutes ago, N_Watson said: Hey, just to make you aware, only a brute boss or gore grunta boss can be the ironfist boss. Huh, I don't have the book at hand now but I'm pretty sure that you could have the ardboy boss (but not get the additional wounds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said: Huh, I don't have the book at hand now but I'm pretty sure that you could have the ardboy boss (but not get the additional wounds). Rules as written, brute or goregruntas boss mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangfroid Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 @Chris Tomlin @N_Watson Embarassingly chaps I have been playing with the Tin-men for the last couple of months while the wait in hope for the GHB2 points changes however the prep games I've had with ironjawz not having MEGABRUTES list option are elsewhere but I'll repeat here mawcrusha (brew) megaboss (ravager, top) chanter Chanter 4x5 brutes brutefist 2 goregruntas i favour footboss as general here so crusha and pigs can vanguard assault to tie up enemy and then follow up with brutes. On average they are moving 16" by the herophase of T2 so you can star charging in hero phase T2 if that fails then move and easier charge later in the turn. Battleshock is mitigated and the waaaargh is the go to. Under scgt I'd probably put mawcrusha as general and swap items over. Against shooty armies...... yeah gonna need a double turn Megaboss (Ravager ToP) megaboss (brew) chanter shaman 5 x 5 brutes 3 x 10 ardboyz brutefist Ardboyz screen, 2" brutes fight over Ardboyz advance en masses and hope to swarm the enemy. Under current shooty meta and scgt I would probably have tested a game with 3x3 goregruntas instead of Ardboyz to get stuck in quicker. For both the brutefist is there for mortal wounds even just the boss left can do D3 mortal on a charge and then still put out some hurt, meaning that while you take pain and punishment you actually retain a degree of offensive output right up until the very last wound of each of your units. Both really do want that double turn...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 15 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said: Huh, I don't have the book at hand now but I'm pretty sure that you could have the ardboy boss (but not get the additional wounds). Weirdly I've never really considered this before as I always assumed there would be Brutes (or Gruntas) present. But yeh, looks like @N_Watson is right. If there are only Ardboyz in the Battalion (which also seems legal), then there is no Big Boss to grant the extra movement. Strange. @Sangfroid - Really interesting lists there mate. I'd be really intrigued to see how they'd fare at a Tournament. I kinda feel like the Brutefist seems a bit untested at the moment. I'm not sure I have the balls to suddenly switch up to it for SCGT this weekend, but perhaps I could focus on it post SCGT and try to take it to an event before GH2 comes out and mixes things up for us again? That said I'm not sure there are many events left before GH2 inevitably drops?! We'll start a new topic at that time I reckon. Clean slate, new ideas and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlySarcasm Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 @Chris Tomlin the ToP on my foot boss is really situational. I think under GHB I would probably take brew on him, to make his output a bit more consistent. My choice for ToP on the foot boss currently is in prep for SCGT, where keeping hero's alive is key to success, and having a 7 wound model with a 3+ save and a4+ vs mortals should mean he wont be as easy to shift! I know that in some games, the talisman on the boss wont even come up, but I weighed it up in my mind when I was writing the list, and decided that it was worth taking over brew, I've got enough punch in the army already, don't really need to megaboss being super killy. Ideally though, I'd love to be able to pick my artefacts each game, but oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightFire Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I used to always run ToP on the cabbage, but it seemed that every time I did he never had to use it because he didn't face any mortal wounds. For SCGT I am probably taking Battle brew, because he always makes use of that! I am not expecting to be super competitive (in fact I am focussing on the narrative hijack) but what I really enjoy about ironjawz is killing stuff, and the brew lets me do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Quote I used to always run ToP on the cabbage, but it seemed that every time I did he never had to use it because he didn't face any mortal wounds. For SCGT I am probably taking Battle brew, because he always makes use of that! I am not expecting to be super competitive (in fact I am focussing on the narrative hijack) but what I really enjoy about ironjawz is killing stuff, and the brew lets me do that. Play to the army's strengths! Be lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 @DeadlySarcasm - Yeh good reasoning there bro, makes complete sense. You've actually got me thinking truth be told! @KnightFire - SCGT or otherwise, I will always go with Talisman on the Cabbage, a model of that level of points investment needs all the protection it can get. The exception would be if you were picking artefacts each game and came across another army with a poor mortal wounds output...like...uh...Ironjawz! Aren't a lot of the "narrative hijack" things just tertiary objectives that don't score? May as well try for the actual mission objectives/agendas IMO...some of those battleplans have a pretty "narrative" feel (sidenote; I'm not even sure what the word narrative means in AoS anymore haha!! Potential podcast topic there hhhmm) Anyway man, you're gonna have a blast regardless! Let's make sure we catch up with each other. 21 hours ago, Nico said: Play to the army's strengths! Be lucky. It sounds like he already is lucky if he's not facing mortal wounds!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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