N_Watson Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Kaptan said: I will have to try that. I am on my way with painting my mawkrusha at the moment. I loved the look of @Roostmanuva's mawkrusha, so I made him/her a brother. Looking good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Kevfle said: I used the weirdnob on balewind. Got him in arcane terrain in 2 games for +4 on the first turn. Got to kill the enemy general turn 1. After the boys move up though, you're only getting a 2+. In games without the arcane terrain, it didn't work as well. It's fun, but dicey. Yeah, you really need to stay in range of the boys to get that sweet, sweet damage boost, otherwise the whole point of the formation disappears. You can't simply stay in the same spot, you have to get rid of the vortex every turn and move along with your boys, then try to summon it again. Really though, I do feel the same way as @Chris Tomlin - it's a lot of points invested into one model. I have yet to try it out, so I can't say for sure, but I do think running the Weirdfist without the Balewind may be the most solid way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptan Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 52 minutes ago, Solaris said: Yeah, you really need to stay in range of the boys to get that sweet, sweet damage boost, otherwise the whole point of the formation disappears. You can't simply stay in the same spot, you have to get rid of the vortex every turn and move along with your boys, then try to summon it again. Really though, I do feel the same way as @Chris Tomlin - it's a lot of points invested into one model. I have yet to try it out, so I can't say for sure, but I do think running the Weirdfist without the Balewind may be the most solid way. I did not know the balewind could be resummoned for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kaptan said: I did not know the balewind could be resummoned for free. Maybe it can't. If you have to pay for it every time you summon it, that really puts the nail in the coffin. I will try it, but I can't imagine it being anything but ****** in that case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 @Kaptan - Great work on the Cabbage bro! @Solaris - You would 100% have to pay for each summoning of the Vortex unfortunately. My Weirdnob Shaman is pretty much finished now so I'll have to give the Weirdfist a look in. There's a one day Tournament I'm attending on 18th March, so maybe I'll give it a run out there...don't think I've got the balls to do it in a two dayer haha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 53 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: @Kaptan - Great work on the Cabbage bro! @Solaris - You would 100% have to pay for each summoning of the Vortex unfortunately. My Weirdnob Shaman is pretty much finished now so I'll have to give the Weirdfist a look in. There's a one day Tournament I'm attending on 18th March, so maybe I'll give it a run out there...don't think I've got the balls to do it in a two dayer haha!! The Vortex is way too situational in that case, the whole point of the Weirdfist is the bonus damage. You'd essentially have to run your army up to a position you want to hold, summon in the Vortex and hope that your opponent lines up for a massive Green Puke. Also, I suppose you'd have to measure vertical distance to your units as well, ****** up the formation even more. I predict it being fantastic in one game out of twenty, and a point sink in the rest Go for it! Embrace the Ironballz spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Biscuit Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I actually think that the Weirdfist would be much more effective that, if the battalion is taken, he can be put within a unit of 'ardboys or Brutes. That way he has a bigger footprint n the battlefield (to engage and snipe) but is much less squishy then his current incarnation (where he is a 6 wound model with a +5 save costing 220 points). That way he is both easier to deal with (units are easier to charge then single characters I find) and harder to snipe (because he's in a unit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 @Lord Biscuit - I had to read that about 5 times as I could not for the life of me understand what you were saying!! Then I noticed you were discussing a hypothetical improvement haha! But yeh, characters in units...not sure how I feel about that. Whilst I'd love to slide my Weirdnob inside some Ardboys (sorry...couldn't resist!), I don't think we'd be the biggest beneficiaries of such a rule (Kunnin' Rukk, Sayl etc spring to mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Quote I did not know the balewind could be resummoned for free. Quite independently of this thread and by coincidence*, I just posted suggesting that it probably could be resummoned again in a different place on a DoT related thread and inviting comments. It doesn't strike me as being for "free", if you've paid for it once, dismissed it as per the Wasrscroll and then take the risk of casting a 7 cast roll to bring back the same Balewind in a different location. I doubt whether the rules are clear enough to answer this point (it's not clear whether you can simply disregard the rules on the Balewind scroll itself simply because reinforcement points are used - this could be FAQed either way). That's not to say that you can get two on the table for the price of one. Quote Balewind and reinforcement points Incidentally, my thinking is that if you dismiss the Balewind, you can resummon the same one without spendinganother 100 reinformcement points, but you couldn't dismiss it and then summon 10 Bloodletters instead for the same 100 reinforcement points. Effectively you're committed to spending the 100 reinforcement points for the choice of the Balewind once you summon it the first time but you can still use the dismiss and summon again mechanics of the Warscroll itself. A different wizard could summon the same Balewind (it doesn't belong to the first wizard). I doubt whether your opponent could ever get the 100 kill points in relation to it (ditto if you summoned a Sylvaneth Wyldwood as a non-Sylvaneth player for reinforcement points). Note that DoT can actually troll Sylvaneth occasionally by nabbing Verdant Blessing from them (Changeling or Curseling) and creating a Wyldwood in an inconvenient spot (using their own Wyldwood model). This would cost reinforcement points, but could be hilarious. This could backfire spectacularly to put it mildly (which is very fluffy for Tzeentch - as the awesome book suggests). For completeness, if you really wanted to, you could summon one in the first turn and then another one in your second turn (which would of course cost a total of 200 reinforcement points and require you to be a pro at rolling 7 casting rolls (or waste some Destiny Dice). The Balewind does double the effect of aoe spell effect ranges - this is seriously old news. Ask Kroak and his Astrolith bearers - he's still out there, he'll be back one day. Hopefully this isn't (too) controversial. Thoughts anyone? *Kairos's left head says "I believe in coincidences". Kairos's right head says "Kroak did it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Whilst you're all talking about filthy magic *shudders* I've gone for extra smashy and picked up my 3rd megaboss! Hopefully get them on a table soon and see how it goes. I'm well aware it could be useless...... Waaaggh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Light Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Guys, This thread is awsome. I'm new to AoS and there is something I don't understand in the Brian's list at LVO. He got the Ironjawz Allegiance but Destruction specific abilities: Rampaging Destroyers (destruction allegiance only???) Ravager (Destruction army, ok) ToP (Destruction army, ok) How can he play a pure Ironjawz army and use a Destruction only battle trait? PS: Sorry, bad English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Two lists I am looking at for a 2k this weekend List one Maw Crusher 1, mortal wound save, brew Maw crusher two, brew Ironfist 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 gruntas List two Maw crusha brew Weirdboy Ironfist 15 brutes- general with +1 hit trait 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 gruntas What do you guys think!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisada11 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 No warchanters? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Kuma said: Two lists I am looking at for a 2k this weekend List one Maw Crusher 1, mortal wound save, brew Maw crusher two, brew Ironfist 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 gruntas List two Maw crusha brew Weirdboy Ironfist 15 brutes- general with +1 hit trait 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 gruntas What do you guys think!"? I think they're both pretty uncompetitive? The Weirdnob isn't very good by itself, without a weirdfist. Even then it's not that good. The maw krusha is also not super strong. It CAN do a lot of wounds, but so can troops with that many points. That's a lot of wounds you're missing for the cost. That unit of 15 brutes is super overkill I think. There's very little q unit of brutes can't go head to head against, and what they aren't good against is a lot of models. Ard Boyz fill that gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 9 hours ago, Mr Light said: Guys, This thread is awsome. I'm new to AoS and there is something I don't understand in the Brian's list at LVO. He got the Ironjawz Allegiance but Destruction specific abilities: Rampaging Destroyers (destruction allegiance only???) Ravager (Destruction army, ok) ToP (Destruction army, ok) How can he play a pure Ironjawz army and use a Destruction only battle trait? PS: Sorry, bad English. It is discussed earlier in this thread and in FAQ. You build your army based on allegiance and if everyone in your army has destruction keyword and Ironjawz keyword, you can choose if you want destruction abilities and items or ironjawz ones of which there are none currently. Similarly, armies with their own items can choose either thier own items or their grand alliance ones. For example, a lot of Beastclaw armies choose the destruction ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Ok, you guys didnt like those lists. this is 2k points on the nose What about: Megaboss- Talisman 3 warchanters Wierdboy Talisman goregruntas min Ironfist: 15 brutes with 2handers- General with rampager 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Kuma said: Ok, you guys didnt like those lists. this is 2k points on the nose What about: Megaboss- Talisman 3 warchanters Wierdboy Talisman goregruntas min Ironfist: 15 brutes with 2handers- General with rampager 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes Well the inclusion of warchanters is good but the unit of brutes is still wasted and you don't have a lot of bodies in the form of Ard Boyz. Those guys are your mainstay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Unfortunately, I dont have ardboys atm, just picked up a few this week that need to be built Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangfroid Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Don't panic if you only have brutes you will just have use some of the small units as a screen like you would have done with Ardboyz. Good news is they all cost the same points in matched play so as you practice and get more bodies bought/built you can mix and match easily if you feel you need to. I have personally been moving towards more brutes myself and having Ardboyz or gruntas outside the formation so it can work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Morning, My current thinking is that you do need the Cabbage (always with Talisman if you have to write on your list before the event). He offers something totally different to the army and as I've always maintained, his rules are good. The issue is of course the excessive points value currently attributed to him. I've tried lists without him and sometimes they will do better, but you just end up with more of the same. The access to (and protection from) mortal wounds is something that really shouldn't be understated, also don't underestimate that scream as it's reasonably reliable for a few wounds. I feel like he should be a staple of every Ironjawz list and hopefully given a suitable points decrease in GH2 will be so. The more I play it, the more I am absolutely convinced that 15 Megabrutes as the General is the best way to play the list. It does so much work and people have to commit so much to kill it with the built in Battleshock immunity. I have no doubt that if we lose unit champ General, we will have to look at a more MSU approach. But for now, I can't see past this. Given a small bit of context, here is the list I took to the Sheffield Slaughter this past weekend; Krunk w/ Battle Brew Cabbage w/ Talisman Weirdnob Warchanter 15 Megabrutes w/ General & Bellowing Tyrant 5 Brutes 3 Gore-gruntas 10 Ardboys Ironfist Admittedly doesn't look great on paper, it's literally one of each Ironjawz min size scrolls (bar Gordrakk) with the Megabrutes chucked on top. It's actually the same as my Masters list, however I lost a second Warchanter for the Weirdnob (thus making Bellowing Tyrant a must over Ravager IMO). It may just be that I've played a lot with the army now, but I actually found it really durable. The event was a very strong 72 man field, with "filth" all around. I was very pleased to win 4/5 games and come 12th against some strong competition and good players. I had some luck in some of the games I won, but also bad luck in the one I lost, all swings and roundabouts IMO. Overall I think my play was pretty strong as well. I will cover the games in more detail in my thread for those interested, but yeh a strong start to the year. Also, whilst Darran Palmer came in 2nd place with a strong Moonclan/BCR/Rukk mixed listed, I was actually the next highest Destruction player, despite being surrounded by Stonehorns, Thundertusks, Savage Orruks etc all weekend. Go Ironjawz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said: Morning, My current thinking is that you do need the Cabbage (always with Talisman if you have to write on your list before the event). He offers something totally different to the army and as I've always maintained, his rules are good. The issue is of course the excessive points value currently attributed to him. I've tried lists without him and sometimes they will do better, but you just end up with more of the same. The access to (and protection from) mortal wounds is something that really shouldn't be understated, also don't underestimate that scream as it's reasonably reliable for a few wounds. I feel like he should be a staple of every Ironjawz list and hopefully given a suitable points decrease in GH2 will be so. [........................................] Congrats on your Sheffield finish! Looked a hard tourney from the comfort of Twitter. I was meant to go but had to drop out - few club-mates still made the trip and from the looks of things, as you say, plenty of 'filth' and quite a few veteran wargamers in attendance. Your list looks ace to me. I still don't have a cabbage sadly (long-term goal for this year), so haven't had the pleasure of fielding one yet. I think you're right that a points-drop will make him a must-have. Incidentally just finished listening to Facehammer's masters/heat 1 coverage, and despite my current direction heading towards extra-smashy, I am all of a sudden tempted by a Weirdfist. Russ' heat 1 game against a WF ironjawz list sounded really interesting, and it does sound like the pumped up Shaman offers that long-range threat we severely lack. As you've covered in the past on the pod however, it's a lot of investment in one model. Very much undecided. Got 2 lists for Heat 2 now sat in front of me, and it's basically magic or no magic! We'll see. Cheers as always for your coverage bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hey @Fungrim, Thanks for your comments. Whilst on the face of it 12/72 isn't the best, I do have to say I am particularly pleased with my finish given the strength of the field. Certainly up there with some of the strongest I've seen. Definitely starting to reach a play where "netlists" are creeping back in. I'm fine with all that though, I don't mind a strong power level and accept I will lose games with my lists. Still, I feel I'm always in with a shot. Your Weirdfist comments made me chuckle and reminded me of a post I made last week... On 23/02/2017 at 9:48 AM, Chris Tomlin said: @Orruk - Haha when I was listening to @Russ Veal talk about that, I was thinking "I bet people will think this is good now!". Just imagine Russ had gone first in that game (or indeed his opponent had failed to cast that Foot of Gork), the likelihood is that he would've been in a position to target and delete the Weirdnob with his two Warp Lightning Cannons, then we have a very different battle report. Having using the Weirdnob competitively now, I do think he is good (again, overpointed), but I would just run him as is. I honestly can't see the worth in the Weirdfist with points as they stand tbh. You'll get the odd amazing story here and there for sure, but that can happen regardless. For all my berating of Foot of Gork, I did find there are turns where you don't need anything else and can give it a go (with +3 where possible). I attempted it 5 times over the weekend, casting it 3 of those. Did 5 wounds to some opposing Brutes, 2 wounds to a Treelord Ancient and the 3rd time it went off multiple times and smashed a Celestant on Dracoth and 2 Tempestors! I also didn't roll a double on the Weirdnob all weekend, which is a bit of a winner. Incidentally, I'm wondering if people play that rule properly? Are you all putting the D3 mortal wounds suffered from the double on the Shaman himself? Because you should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 14 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: Hey @Fungrim, [.......] Your Weirdfist comments made me chuckle and reminded me of a post I made last week... Having using the Weirdnob competitively now, I do think he is good (again, overpointed), but I would just run him as is. I honestly can't see the worth in the Weirdfist with points as they stand tbh.... Ah apologies for bringing up a past topic! I though this may have already been discussed. It is tempting though, the long range mortal threat. If you can get Foot casting down to 7 easy enough, and even Bolt down to a 2! But you're right, 100 pts for a Balewind, that you might not successfully cast anyway, and another 100 pts for the formation that all relies on a 120 pt shaman. All this when you could just have more brutes right?! I think I got suckered in when Russ said both his Warp Lightning Cannons got pinged off in one go... I regularly face 2 WLCs - would be lovely to get rid of em first turn! Bring on those killer crossbow brutes! 14 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: I also didn't roll a double on the Weirdnob all weekend, which is a bit of a winner. Incidentally, I'm wondering if people play that rule properly? Are you all putting the D3 mortal wounds suffered from the double on the Shaman himself? Because you should be! I did notice this on his warscroll - a mistake perhaps? Surely they'd just state to put it on himself if that's what they intended, as there's no choice otherwise. Either way, as is, makes the Shaman even more iffy sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 @Chris Tomlin I agree with your thoughts on the megaboss on Mawcrusher. Been playing with him a lot lately with a brutefist mind you. Got a cool story from last night I'm sure you'll love. Got the Mawcrusher and 3 goregruntas 3 and 5 inches away from 9 buffed up horrors. Shot 3 wounds off them then rolled double 1 to charge.... Goregruntas rolled and 8, so made sure to move them 8. With mystical, and +1 to hit, I did 15 wounds to the unit of horrors. Lost only 1 gore grunta. Got priority then smashed the rest off. Never been more proud of my 3 little pigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Adversely, I'm not sure I like the Weirdnob without the Weirdfist He then just seems like a massively overcosted Mystic Shield bot. In that case I would just exchange my Ardboys for Grots and throw in a Gitmob or Moonclan Shaman instead. With the Weirdfist, he actually becomes a big threat - he essentially puts out damage comparable to that of a Thundertusk, and at longer range. He is also 100 points cheaper than the cheapest version of the Thundertusk. The formation requires some clutch positioning to work perfectly, and so is fun to play. I do think that both the Weirdnob himself and the formation may be overcosted, and drop slightly in GH2. I like to think that fielding it now is good practice for when that happens. Also, stop theorizing so much on how vulnerable it is. Plonk it into a friendly game or two and try it out instead. Or, be ballsy and bring it to a tournament! I'm honestly much more on the fence with the Mawkrusha than I am with the Weirdfist. In melee, the Mawkrusha with amulet does not hit much harder than an ordinary Megaboss on foot with battle brew. The bellow does add a little bit of damage, and the Destructive Bulk adds a source of mortal wounds. However, there's no guarantee that your opponent allows you to charge a key target with him. The Weirdfist is a cheaper and more reliable source of mortal wounds - you can always target what you want. Of course, it is also more vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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