Requizen Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Ok, you guys didnt like those lists. this is 2k points on the nose What about: Megaboss- Talisman 3 warchanters Wierdboy Talisman goregruntas min Ironfist: 15 brutes with 2handers- General with rampager 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutesThis is very close to what the winner of our monthly 2000 point won with. He swapped one of the 5 mans for a unit of Ardboyz and gave his General Bellowing Tyrant instead. A unit of Brutes that's always Battleshock Immune and +1 to hit is pretty insane, and it did most of the work by itself. I misplayed against it, though, but in the end I think it's way more terrifying than many people are ready for. Unless you're going against TripleThundertusk, very few things will slow down 47 wounds of pain. Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Fungrim said: Ah apologies for bringing up a past topic! I though this may have already been discussed. It is tempting though, the long range mortal threat. If you can get Foot casting down to 7 easy enough, and even Bolt down to a 2! But you're right, 100 pts for a Balewind, that you might not successfully cast anyway, and another 100 pts for the formation that all relies on a 120 pt shaman. All this when you could just have more brutes right?! I think I got suckered in when Russ said both his Warp Lightning Cannons got pinged off in one go... I regularly face 2 WLCs - would be lovely to get rid of em first turn! Bring on those killer crossbow brutes! I did notice this on his warscroll - a mistake perhaps? Surely they'd just state to put it on himself if that's what they intended, as there's no choice otherwise. Either way, as is, makes the Shaman even more iffy sadly. Haha we cycle through topics all the time on here so all good! You can get foot down to 7 without the Balewind if you can camp out Arcane terrain. Like I say, if Russ' opponent didn't roll the 7, or indeed failed the 4+, it's suddenly a very different story. That said there is no denying the potential threat of the Weirdfist. Opponents will (rightly) fear it and prioritise accordingly. Whether it's a mistake on the scroll or not, unfortunately there's no other way to play it without an FAQ. It's very clear. 41 minutes ago, N_Watson said: @Chris Tomlin I agree with your thoughts on the megaboss on Mawcrusher. Been playing with him a lot lately with a brutefist mind you. Got a cool story from last night I'm sure you'll love. Got the Mawcrusher and 3 goregruntas 3 and 5 inches away from 9 buffed up horrors. Shot 3 wounds off them then rolled double 1 to charge.... Goregruntas rolled and 8, so made sure to move them 8. With mystical, and +1 to hit, I did 15 wounds to the unit of horrors. Lost only 1 gore grunta. Got priority then smashed the rest off. Never been more proud of my 3 little pigs. Sounds cool...although unless I'm misunderstanding the story, it sounds like you played it wrong. The travesty of the Gore-gruntas is that they need to be 8" away from all enemies and roll the big charge! It would be so much better if you just got it for rolling 8+. Also note that if one unit is 8" away and get the charge on them, if there is a different unit closer than 8" it still doesn't trigger! 39 minutes ago, Solaris said: Adversely, I'm not sure I like the Weirdnob without the Weirdfist He then just seems like a massively overcosted Mystic Shield bot. In that case I would just exchange my Ardboys for Grots and throw in a Gitmob or Moonclan Shaman instead. With the Weirdfist, he actually becomes a big threat - he essentially puts out damage comparable to that of a Thundertusk, and at longer range. He is also 100 points cheaper than the cheapest version of the Thundertusk. The formation requires some clutch positioning to work perfectly, and so is fun to play. I do think that both the Weirdnob himself and the formation may be overcosted, and drop slightly in GH2. I like to think that fielding it now is good practice for when that happens. Also, stop theorizing so much on how vulnerable it is. Plonk it into a friendly game or two and try it out instead. Or, be ballsy and bring it to a tournament! I'm honestly much more on the fence with the Mawkrusha than I am with the Weirdfist. In melee, the Mawkrusha with amulet does not hit much harder than an ordinary Megaboss on foot with battle brew. The bellow does add a little bit of damage, and the Destructive Bulk adds a source of mortal wounds. However, there's no guarantee that your opponent allows you to charge a key target with him. The Weirdfist is a cheaper and more reliable source of mortal wounds - you can always target what you want. Of course, it is also more vulnerable. Totally agree that the Weirdnob often becomes an expensive Mystic Shield. Unfortunately if you wanna stick to pure "competitive" Ironjawz, he's all we've got. By the time we switch out Ardboys for Grots, Weirdnob for Grot Shaman, we may as well lose Brutes for Thundertusks etc etc. A bit extreme, but you get my point I'm sure haha. I do agree that both the Weirdnob and his battalion may well go down in GH2, which would definitely see it get more playtime IMO. I get what you're saying about theorising, I'm not really the biggest fan of that TBH. That said, in 4 of my 5 games this past weekend I think a Weirdnob on Balewind would've been killed T1. The UK competitive meta seems to have a lot shooting at present. For me, the Cabbage isn't wholly about pure kills. He offers this really different dynamic that the army doesn't otherwise have. He's a huge focal point for your opponent, who unchecked will wreak havoc. I think alongside the 15 Brutes it works as it gives two outright threats. I'm not sure how this shifts in an MSU list. What I will say is that I love we are still having these constructive discussions. With so few options available there could be a danger that we'd have just settled on the "best" build months ago. However with different metas and the fact everything is alright (but not great or bad), it's allowed us to keep going for months and still be having different experiences and getting different results from different units. I think it also helps that we seem to have a great group of guys posting in this section (an experience not shared across the whole forum haha!!). 24 minutes ago, Requizen said: but in the end I think it's way more terrifying than many people are ready for. Unless you're going against TripleThundertusk, very few things will slow down 47 wounds of pain. Agreed. Also people have to work really hard to clear through it and it still keeps hitting back, even with 11/15 down, you're still left with the meat of the unit in the Big Boss and 3 Gore-choppas! As a further point of reference, at the Slaughter I only lost the Brutes once (and Cabbage twice), playing; 3 Stardrakes (new SCE book) Gnarlroot Vexillor + Retributors & shooting (old SCE book) Ironjawz (The Master had a similar build to me but 10 & 2x 5 Brutes) Gnarlroot Yet in 3 more of those games I was left with just 2 Brutes left, hanging onto their 540 points, which in this scoring system equated to my opponents losing 5 or 6 (depending on other points scored) out of a potential 40TPs per game. Pretty tidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 @Chris Tomlin your right. Just read it again. Thought as long as I was able to move 8, I got the bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Let's keep up the chat on ironjawz! Loving the army more and more as I get it all painted. First tournament in a month, so better brush up on my rules and warscrolls lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, N_Watson said: Let's keep up the chat on ironjawz! Loving the army more and more as I get it all painted. First tournament in a month, so better brush up on my rules and warscrolls lol. Same! First proper outing is Heat2 for mine. Got a local tournament in a few weeks as well, just need base colours on for that. Got absolutely no paint on any of it yet though... decided to get some on my bloodbowl orcs as a bit of trial run painting greenskins. Really need to switch full focus onto my ironjawz now. 157 wounds worth to throw colours at - hoping it's not the chore I'm anticipating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 30 minutes ago, N_Watson said: @Chris Tomlin your right. Just read it again. Thought as long as I was able to move 8, I got the bonus. Unfortunately not. For what it's worth, the way you played it is, IMO, how the rule should be. 28 minutes ago, N_Watson said: Let's keep up the chat on ironjawz! Loving the army more and more as I get it all painted. First tournament in a month, so better brush up on my rules and warscrolls lol. What's your first event? 18 minutes ago, Fungrim said: Same! First proper outing is Heat2 for mine. Got a local tournament in a few weeks as well, just need base colours on for that. Got absolutely no paint on any of it yet though... decided to get some on my bloodbowl orcs as a bit of trial run painting greenskins. Really need to switch full focus onto my ironjawz now. 157 wounds worth to throw colours at - hoping it's not the chore I'm anticipating... Oooh nice, I was meant to be at Heat 2, but I think I might have to drop out now Best get painting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 34 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: What's your first event? Fall of the old world at common ground games Stirling. 2 day event and I'm going solo. Not my neck of the woods, so hope I don't make a tit of myself infront of all the pro team Scotland guys haha. Got 9 brutes and a Wierdnob to finish, they I need to decide between another 10 ardboys or 3 goregruntas. Not looking forward to that, so leaving it till last. In your experience, if you were playing someone with cabbage megaboss on their list, but the model is build as Gordrakk, IE, no rip toof fist, would that cause issues? Never been a problem with my mates at the club, but don't want to ruffle feathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said: ................ Oooh nice, I was meant to be at Heat 2, but I think I might have to drop out now Best get painting!! Ah that's no good dude - tournament build-up &/or real life? Should be a good one. Couldn't make Heat 1 and was a bit worried Heat 3 will be the most competitive... still not massively confident with H2 but we'll see. Best get painting indeed. It starts tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangfroid Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, N_Watson said: Fall of the old world at common ground games Stirling. 2 day event and I'm going solo. Not my neck of the woods, so hope I don't make a tit of myself infront of all the pro team Scotland guys haha. Got 9 brutes and a Wierdnob to finish, they I need to decide between another 10 ardboys or 3 goregruntas. Not looking forward to that, so leaving it till last. In your experience, if you were playing someone with cabbage megaboss on their list, but the model is build as Gordrakk, IE, no rip toof fist, would that cause issues? Never been a problem with my mates at the club, but don't want to ruffle feathers. Mine is built as Gordrakk because the two axes just look better, I have had no trouble at all at any event I just tell peeps the Megaboss is a wanna be Gordrakk with his right axe called "Choppa" his left axe "Rip toof" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sangfroid said: Mine is built as Gordrakk because the two axes just look better, I have had no trouble at all at any event I just tell peeps the Megaboss is a wanna be Gordrakk with his right axe called "Choppa" his left axe "Rip toof" ? Good to know. He does just look more bad ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said: For me, the Cabbage isn't wholly about pure kills. He offers this really different dynamic that the army doesn't otherwise have. He's a huge focal point for your opponent, who unchecked will wreak havoc. I think alongside the 15 Brutes it works as it gives two outright threats. I'm not sure how this shifts in an MSU list. Fair point for sure, and here I am the victim of theorizing (or rather, math hammering). I guess I see it somewhat differently, since my intention is not to play pure Ironjawz anyway. I compare the Mawkrusha (why the heck to people call it a Cabbage by the way, lol?) to the Frostlord on Stonehorn, which is just massively superior AND costs less. But as you say, the Mawkrusha does add something to Ironjawz lists that we cannot get elsewhere. Maybe I should proxy it one game and see if it changes my opinion. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 44 minutes ago, Solaris said: Fair point for sure, and here I am the victim of theorizing (or rather, math hammering). I guess I see it somewhat differently, since my intention is not to play pure Ironjawz anyway. I compare the Mawkrusha (why the heck to people call it a Cabbage by the way, lol?) to the Frostlord on Stonehorn, which is just massively superior AND costs less. But as you say, the Mawkrusha does add something to Ironjawz lists that we cannot get elsewhere. Maybe I should proxy it one game and see if it changes my opinion. Hmm. Proxy it with a cabbage. They look so similar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 19 hours ago, N_Watson said: Fall of the old world at common ground games Stirling. 2 day event and I'm going solo. Not my neck of the woods, so hope I don't make a tit of myself infront of all the pro team Scotland guys haha. Got 9 brutes and a Wierdnob to finish, they I need to decide between another 10 ardboys or 3 goregruntas. Not looking forward to that, so leaving it till last. In your experience, if you were playing someone with cabbage megaboss on their list, but the model is build as Gordrakk, IE, no rip toof fist, would that cause issues? Never been a problem with my mates at the club, but don't want to ruffle feathers. Good luck, I'm sure you'll have a blast. I look forward to the report. Sounds like you also have some painting to do! At least you're getting the full tournament experience including hard deadlines!! You should be fine with your Cabbage. Using named characters as generic versions tends to be ok, it's usually vice versa where you have problems. Still, might be best to check with the TO if you're really concerned. 18 hours ago, Fungrim said: Ah that's no good dude - tournament build-up &/or real life? Should be a good one. Couldn't make Heat 1 and was a bit worried Heat 3 will be the most competitive... still not massively confident with H2 but we'll see. Best get painting indeed. It starts tonight! Purely financial reasons. I'd love to be there. Me and @Forestreveries have sold our tickets/hotel to @Russ Veal and @Lez so it's a fair trade on the "sweet bros" attending front tbh! Looking forward to seeing some progress. 16 hours ago, Solaris said: why the heck to people call it a Cabbage by the way Haha...because it looks like one!! It's a term of endearment though as I absolutely love the model. I literally researched red cabbages when painting mine though. Agree re the comparison to the Frostlord on Stonehorn, however you kinda have to look past that. If we were basing all our list decisions on what other allegiances could offer, we probably wouldn't be trying to make Ironjawz 'competitive' and would settle on mixed Destruction!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said: Purely financial reasons. I'd love to be there. Me and @Forestreveries have sold our tickets/hotel to @Russ Veal and @Lez so it's a fair trade on the "sweet bros" attending front tbh! Looking forward to seeing some progress. [............................] No fair trade - would love to catch your Ironjawz in the flesh again. Saw them at Facehammer last year and it went a long way in helping me take the plunge 1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said: [.............................] Haha...because it looks like one!! It's a term of endearment though as I absolutely love the model. I literally researched red cabbages when painting mine though. Agree re the comparison to the Frostlord on Stonehorn, however you kinda have to look past that. If we were basing all our list decisions on what other allegiances could offer, we probably wouldn't be trying to make Ironjawz 'competitive' and would settle on mixed Destruction!! My other half asked me what I wanted for my birthday the other week. Wondered if I'd like a 'lettuce'....... Props to her to be fair, wasn't that far off..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said: Haha...because it looks like one!! It's a term of endearment though as I absolutely love the model. I literally researched red cabbages when painting mine though. Agree re the comparison to the Frostlord on Stonehorn, however you kinda have to look past that. If we were basing all our list decisions on what other allegiances could offer, we probably wouldn't be trying to make Ironjawz 'competitive' and would settle on mixed Destruction!! Come, join the dark side Jokes aside, you are of course right. My point with the Frostlord comparison was just to say that I have a different end goal and that my considerations may therefore differ from yours. I'm still on the fence with the Mawkrusha, but I will try him out before finalizing an opinion. Proxied with a cabbage, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said: Good luck, I'm sure you'll have a blast. I look forward to the report. Sounds like you also have some painting to do! At least you're getting the full tournament experience including hard deadlines!! You should be fine with your Cabbage. Using named characters as generic versions tends to be ok, it's usually vice versa where you have problems. Still, might be best to check with the TO if you're really concerned. Thanks man. I just paint really slow. I am basically learning as I go and don't want to have something which is such an investment of money and time to not look good. Planning to blog my weekend. Was planning to go to my first event in January,but it was the same weekend as the other halfs grad ball, so now I'm going on my own to an event. Not met a non-friendly AOS player locally yet, so hopeful that it won't be the same here. Almost certain the TO will be fine, just wasn't sure how to best approach the issue with 6 opponents. I guess "TO says it's cool" is the best way though... Anyone know when heat 3 is going to be? Couldn't make heat 2, but hopefully will be able to grab a ticket to heat 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stronghold Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hi guys, just wondered if any of you'd be interested in sharing your Ironjawz warscrolls thoughts over in the Stronghold's Warscrolls section - there's a competition running at the moment for warscrolls reviews and tactics tips, with a battletome going to the best advice-giver and a start collecting box raffled between all entrants. The aim is to build a great resource of warscrolls advice for Destruction players, here's a link to the page where the Ironjawz warscrolls can be found: https://www.the-stronghold.com/index.php?/warscrolls/&d=4&page=3 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 You know, something curious I've found is that guys on tg (yeah, i know, 4chan and all) are just bemoaning Ironjawz as hot piles of trash, on par with KBB. Apparently we are just getting bad opponents fellas. So am I wondering, has anyone of you tried what I call the Murderwagon (Gordrakk and big blobs/gorefists) here? I find that build hilarious. And by the way, what this talk of the weirdnob shaman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, The Stronghold said: Hi guys, just wondered if any of you'd be interested in sharing your Ironjawz warscrolls thoughts over in the Stronghold's Warscrolls section Hey, meant to do this last week, but never go around to it. I will comment on a few over the next few days. Got a few days off work. Got a game vs new Stormcast tomorrow, so will do a little report of it on here. Been playing with a Brutefist list with MSU brutes for a few weeks now, but found out the tournament I am attending next month isn't banning the use of the Megabrutes™, so I will be giving this a run out again. Preparation has been going well. Will attach a few images of my Megaboss "Gary". Pretty happy with him. Still learning as I go. Will be running the same list as what @Chris Tomlin ran last weekend, as I don't see myself getting another 10 Ardboys or 3 Gorgruntas finished in time to replace the extra 5 brutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I've got a 2k and 1k events this three-day weekend we've got here at home. The tournament is "fairly" competitive (know the guys, will bring strong lists but will avoid breaking the camel's back). Here are my ideas: 1k lists. Leaders: -megaboss (battlebrew) 140 -warchanter (talisman) 80 Battlelines: 10 ardboyz 10 ardboyz 5 brutes 3 goregruntas. ironfist (duh) 1k points The other option is swapping the gruntas to make a third unit of ardboyz. 2k lists: 3 ideas. Idea 1 leaders Gordrakk (general... maybe?) 700 Warchanter 80 (amulet) warchanter 80 (amulet) battlelines 3x10 units of ardboyz. 6 gore-gruntas. 5 brutes. ironfist 2k points on the dot. Idea 2. leaders: megaboss on mawkrusha. 520 (amulet or battlebrew) megaboss 140 (battlebrew) warchanter 80 warchanter 80 3 blobs of 10 ardboyz, 10 brutes. 5 brutes. Idea 3 is the same as 2, but using 6 gruntas instead of brutes. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Won't bother with a report. Was escalation and I got a major while smashing his whole army by turn 3. Really wasn't a competitive list he had, so no place here. Feeling confident in my play with the 15 man unit of brutes though. People write it off as "ez mode" but it's quite hard to put them where you want them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillz Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Which have people had better success with bellowing tyrant or ravager ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, Drillz said: Which have people had better success with bellowing tyrant or ravager ? I have had better success with bellowing tyrant if using a big unit of brutes, because they get +1 hit until the next hero phase. With lots of minimum sized unit's, I prefer ravager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 New app is great and everything but I won't pretend it's not bugging me that you can't pick Ironjawz battalions if you pick Destruction allegiance....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N_Watson Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 23 minutes ago, Fungrim said: New app is great and everything but I won't pretend it's not bugging me that you can't pick Ironjawz battalions if you pick Destruction allegiance....... Maybe Ironjawz allegiance stuff coming soon? One can hope, though I suspect it is an oversight. You fed it back to them yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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