Shadespire community FAQ

[Hesa_First]

On 14.2.2018 at 6:54 AM, Biboune said:

The second page of the official FAQ says:

Q: When a fighter is driven back, is that part of the Attack action, or is it a new action?

A: When a fighter is driven back by an Attack action, that happens within that Attack action (the Attack action is not over until after the fighter has been driven back).

 

Regading this I want to make sure I understand Trap correctly when scoring objectives:

Lets say Steelheart charges Garrek. He hits, drives back and Trap is being played. Garrek is dead. Precise Use of Force can be scored, as the Attack in total deals exacly the right amount of damage (4). Lighning Strikes and Victorious Duel can be scored aswell.

Now lets say Steelheart charges a Petitioner, who has 1 HP left. They tie on successes and the Petitioner is driven back, therefore the SCE player plays Trap. No Remorse can be scored, as the damage characteristic of the attack is still 3. Precise Use of Force can be scored aswell, as the damage dealt is 1 (exacly as much as needed).

Now Steelheart charges a full HP Petitioner. He hits the Petitioner and wants to drive him back and play Trap, to score Crushing Force. Even though the damage dealt would be 4, twice as much as needed, this is not possible due to the attack sequence. The damage dealt by the initial attack is more than the Petitioner can sustain, so he is taken out of action before he can be driven back.

Did I get anything wrong?

Edited March 11, 2018 by Hesa_First
typo

[Biboune]

I don't play Trap like you: Trap deals 1 damage during an attack but this damage is not dealt by the attack; it is dealt by a ploy. So no Precise Use of Force or Victorious Duel can be scored. That is why +1 damage ploys like Gorkamorka Blessing are still useful.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Biboune

[Hesa_First]

45 minutes ago, Biboune said:

I don't play Trap like you: Trap deals 1 damage during an attack but this damage is not dealt by the attack; it is dealt by a ploy. So no Precise Use of Force or Victorious Duel can be scored. That is why +1 damage ploys like Gorkamorka Blessing are still useful.

You said that in another thread and initially agreed. But I gave the timing of an attack some thought and now understand Trap differently (I might be horrily wrong though).

The attack action is not over until the drive back is resolved. Trap happens during an attack. So I don't really see a reason anymore, why damage from Trap should not be considered for attack actions that score objectives. The damage characteristic doesn't change for sure, but the damage is dealt in the said attack action.

Objectives not regarding damage like Victorious Duel  should also be scored from my understanding.

We might need a FAQ wich states wether the ploydamage from being driven back is considered to be caused by the attack or not.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Hesa_First

[Inaspin]

Couple questions. Playing Undead: Can a Skellie stay off the board and place/inspire later in the game, when more favourable?

Also, some attacks generate additional damage if a crit is rolled. What if a crit and a successful roll on a second dice were made in attack and a crit only were rolled in defence. Would the attacking crit still generate any possible bonuses (as crit cancels crit)?

Thanks

[Goblin-King]

2 hours ago, Inaspin said:

Couple questions. Playing Undead: Can a Skellie stay off the board and place/inspire later in the game, when more favourable?

Also, some attacks generate additional damage if a crit is rolled. What if a crit and a successful roll on a second dice were made in attack and a crit only were rolled in defence. Would the attacking crit still generate any possible bonuses (as crit cancels crit)?

Thanks

When reduced to 0 health, skeletons are removed from the board. They return if and when you decide to use the Warden's ability to bring them back (or a ploy).
So yes, YOU decide when the time is right to do so. Indeed you shouldn't bring a skeleton back instantly just because you can.

If the attack was a success AND you rolled a crit, then the crit effect happens. It's wrong to say a crit "cancels" a crit. If you both rolled an equal amount of crits it simply means you are tied in how many crit successes you rolled. But you still rolled a crit.

[Inaspin]

Thanks for your reply, very helpful.

We have been bring skelies back automatically...until now...

[Fredster64]

Hello, first post here so I hope it's in the right place! 

Wanted to ask a question about the Sepulchral Guard ploy Swift Evasion (#75): it says that I must end the push "further away from all enemy fighters" and I'm not quite sure how this works. As an example: say my champion is next to Garrek and two hexes away from Saek. Can I move him so that his final position is still two hexes away from Saek (given that he ends up adjacent to no enemy fighters), or do I have to move him further away from Saek (and all other enemy fighters) than he was before? 

Sorry if I didn't explain that very clearly! 

[Malakree]

51 minutes ago, Fredster64 said:

Hello, first post here so I hope it's in the right place! 

Wanted to ask a question about the Sepulchral Guard ploy Swift Evasion (#75): it says that I must end the push "further away from all enemy fighters" and I'm not quite sure how this works. As an example: say my champion is next to Garrek and two hexes away from Saek. Can I move him so that his final position is still two hexes away from Saek (given that he ends up adjacent to no enemy fighters), or do I have to move him further away from Saek (and all other enemy fighters) than he was before? 

Sorry if I didn't explain that very clearly! 

So just doing a quick check of and the card itself is completely vague.

A basic thought experiment, if you are in one corner with an adjacent enemy fighter on one end of two short end boards and there is another enemy fighter who is in the exact same position on the other end of the board. If it measures the distance to every enemy fighter and you must be further away from each individual fighter then the ploy is unusable no matter how many hexes movement you get, as you physically could not get further away from the fighter in the opposite corner.

Given the name of the card and it's artwork (the warden) it implies that it's there as a tool to move the Warden after he gets jumped by an enemy fighter by some method, say hidden paths. Thus the restriction is there to stop it being used aggressively, say shifting the harvester from adjacent to one enemy to adjacent with 4. In that case it wouldn't make sense for a fighter 15 hexes away to stop him from shifting away (escaping) from a fighter next to him. So RAI seems to be that if you start adjacent to any enemy you can't end adjacent to an enemy fighter, if an opponent played it against me that would be my personal reading of it.

• If you are playing in a friendly local setting I would just explain it to your opponent before the game and get an agreement one way or another. You might want to pack sidestep (if you aren't already) so that you can swap it if you can't.
• In a tournament setting contact your Tournament Operator and get a ruling before you submit your decklist. Again I'd suggest taking a replacement with you so that in the case of an unfavourable ruling you can just swap it.
• I'd suggest asking it on the Shadespire facebook, they will often forward it to rules team so that it makes it in the next FAQ and are fairly good at giving an answer, if a bit noncommittal  

Sorry I couldn't give you a better one.

[Fredster64]

8 hours ago, Malakree said:

So just doing a quick check of and the card itself is completely vague.

A basic thought experiment, if you are in one corner with an adjacent enemy fighter on one end of two short end boards and there is another enemy fighter who is in the exact same position on the other end of the board. If it measures the distance to every enemy fighter and you must be further away from each individual fighter then the ploy is unusable no matter how many hexes movement you get, as you physically could not get further away from the fighter in the opposite corner.

Given the name of the card and it's artwork (the warden) it implies that it's there as a tool to move the Warden after he gets jumped by an enemy fighter by some method, say hidden paths. Thus the restriction is there to stop it being used aggressively, say shifting the harvester from adjacent to one enemy to adjacent with 4. In that case it wouldn't make sense for a fighter 15 hexes away to stop him from shifting away (escaping) from a fighter next to him. So RAI seems to be that if you start adjacent to any enemy you can't end adjacent to an enemy fighter, if an opponent played it against me that would be my personal reading of it.

• If you are playing in a friendly local setting I would just explain it to your opponent before the game and get an agreement one way or another. You might want to pack sidestep (if you aren't already) so that you can swap it if you can't.
• In a tournament setting contact your Tournament Operator and get a ruling before you submit your decklist. Again I'd suggest taking a replacement with you so that in the case of an unfavourable ruling you can just swap it.
• I'd suggest asking it on the Shadespire facebook, they will often forward it to rules team so that it makes it in the next FAQ and are fairly good at giving an answer, if a bit noncommittal  

Sorry I couldn't give you a better one.

Thanks for the reply!

I agree, it seems to be a very vague card. Personally I think the card's text aligns better with the more restricted interpretation whereby you have to increase your distance from every enemy fighter, but: 

1) (as you rightly said) it doesn't make sense for a fighter on the opposite side of the board to affect the push; 

2) this restricted interpretation makes the card pretty terrible, so I'm really hoping it's not right! 

As for replacements, I'm already using sidestep in my deck but am considering swapping in flickering step (although I never seem to roll any crits for it ). 

Do you mean the GW Shadespire page or is there another community group? I haven't heard of anything like that so it would be interesting if there was something. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Fredster64
Typo

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Fredster64 said:

Do you mean the GW Shadespire page or is there another community group? I haven't heard of anything like that so it would be interesting if there was something

I mean the gw one. The other option is to send an email to the feedback email.

There are two terms which apply here. "Rules as Written" (RaW) and "Rules as Intended" (RaI). What I'm discussing above is RaI since the RaW is so vague.

It's why I say to get a ruling before the game or tournament, that way you know what interpretation will be used before it comes up.

[Fredster64]

I've just sent an email to the feedback email not sure if they'll get back to me but we'll see... 

 

[Zimagic]

Can you play a card that requires a target but doesn't require  you to specify it ?

 

A player today played Daylight Robbery on me even though I had no unspent Glory points in order to empty his hand. As the card doesn't state "Chose one of your opponent's unspent glory points, Roll a dice....." he argued that the only thing he was required to do was roll in order to determine if he could take a point, not actually require me to have a point to take in order to play the card.

 

Thanks

Edited May 17, 2018 by Zimagic

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Zimagic said:

Can you play a card that requires a target but doesn't require  you to specify it ?

 

A player today played Daylight Robbery on me even though I had no unspent Glory points in order to empty his hand. As the card doesn't state "Chose one of your opponent's unspent glory points, Roll a dice....." he argued that the only thing he was required to do was roll in order to determine if he could take a point, not actually require me to have a point to take in order to play the card.

 

Thanks

In this case, Rules as Written would support that interpretation. The only place on the card that requires you have an unspent glory point is when resolving the effect not when the card is played.

For example if he rolls a dodge then the second half doesn't even trigger.

Probably not Rules as Intended, I'd suggest you also email the Shadespire email, as it stands however I would see the RaW interpretation as the correct one. Ironically the only mandatory part of playing the card is the "Roll an attack dice" portion, so if he wants to play the card he MUST roll the dice whether you have the glory to steal or not....

[Zimagic]

Thanks Malakree.

[Anthony225]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed or not as it's probably an obvious answer, but still not sure:

does a player gain 1 glory for an enemy model being taken out of action regardless of why they were taken out? 

Or do you only gain the glory if a friendly fighter takes an enemy out of action with an attack?

for example would you gain glory if you took a model out of action via cards such as:

bone shrapnel

death throes

expendable

shardgale ...

sorry, just realized this question is not in the main FAQ 

nevermind, it is in the FAQ

Edited June 3, 2018 by Anthony225

[ReynakZhen]

New FAQ just dropped! some really good clarifications in there, specifically of interest to me was the Last Chance ruling.

Edited June 15, 2018 by ReynakZhen
extra stuff

[Red_Zeke]

3 hours ago, ReynakZhen said:

New FAQ just dropped! some really good clarifications in there, specifically of interest to me was the Last Chance ruling.

And finally putting the dagger in the 'what is a warband' debate.

[Goblin-King]

Quote

Hidden Paths (#331)

Q: Hidden Paths says that the fighter is considered to have made a Move action. Does this count towards triggering cards like Quick Thinker, Kunnin’ But Brutal, and March of the Dead?

A: For the rest of the round the fighter is considered to have made a Move action (this will affect what actions they can make later in the round) but Hidden Paths is not a Move action (or, indeed, an action of any kind). This means that Quick Thinker and Kunnin’ But Brutal cannot be triggered by Hidden Paths (because there was no action to make the reaction to), and you cannot score Cover Ground from Hidden Paths (because it isn’t a Move action). However, as the fighter is considered to have made a Move action in that round, that fighter does count for March of the Dead when you check that in the end phase.

I think this ruling is weird. If "considered to have made a move action" is never considered to have made a move action it's truly one of the worst worded cards.
But no use discussing it at this point I guess

Quote

Katophrane Relics

Q: How many times can I use the draw cards reaction on a model with 4+ Katophrane Relics making a Charge action?

A: You can take the reaction after each of the fighter’s actions (assuming your opponent doesn’t play a reaction at the same opportunity), so normally you can use the reaction twice for a Charge action: once after the Move action and once after the Attack action. If the Attack action targets more than one enemy fighter, you can use the reaction after each of the Attack actions made as part of that Attack action.

I'm in shock over this one! This is so absolute BS. If someone pre-FAQ had tried to do this I would have told him to go F himself.
Making  charge a move action followed by an attack action may have seemed smart and clean at one point, but I honestly think it's only a source for confusion and BS.

Charge should just have been it's own separate action, not two in one.

[Malakree]

4 hours ago, Goblin-King said:

I'm in shock over this one! This is so absolute BS. If someone pre-FAQ had tried to do this I would have told him to go F himself.
Making  charge a move action followed by an attack action may have seemed smart and clean at one point, but I honestly think it's only a source for confusion and BS.

Charge should just have been it's own separate action, not two in one.

I used it at UKExpo and that ruling was made there. It's how I always read it.

4 hours ago, Goblin-King said:

I think this ruling is weird. If "considered to have made a move action" is never considered to have made a move action it's truly one of the worst worded cards.
But no use discussing it at this point I guess

It's to stop things which trigger on you having made a move action, so hidden paths then cunning but brutal etc.

[Anthony225]

12 hours ago, Goblin-King said:

I think this ruling is weird. If "considered to have made a move action" is never considered to have made a move action it's truly one of the worst worded cards.
But no use discussing it at this point I guess

I'm in shock over this one! This is so absolute BS. If someone pre-FAQ had tried to do this I would have told him to go F himself.
Making  charge a move action followed by an attack action may have seemed smart and clean at one point, but I honestly think it's only a source for confusion and BS.

Charge should just have been it's own separate action, not two in one.

I don't understand the hate towards the relics giving 2 power cards for a charge. Best case you're looking at 2 extra cards right?

[Goblin-King]

So how exactly does "score immediately" cards work now?

Quote

Q: Can you score a ‘score this immediately’ objective if, as an activation, you discard and draw an objective, and you meet the conditions of that objective (e.g. if you draw Blood for the Blood God! in an action phase in which three of your fighters have made a Charge action)?

A: Yes.

I have already charged with 3 fighters. If I score another "score immediately" and draw "Blood for the blood god", can I score it immediately?
Can I score it later in the same phase? If, when is the window?

I have charged with 3 fighters. I have "Blood for the blood god" on my hand, but forget to claim it. Can I score it at anytime within the same phase?

The implications with the new FAQ is that "immediately" doesn't actually mean *this very instant*, but rather just that these cards can be scored outside the end phases. 

[Anthony225]

3 hours ago, Goblin-King said:

So how exactly does "score immediately" cards work now?

I have already charged with 3 fighters. If I score another "score immediately" and draw "Blood for the blood god", can I score it immediately?
Can I score it later in the same phase? If, when is the window?

I have charged with 3 fighters. I have "Blood for the blood god" on my hand, but forget to claim it. Can I score it at anytime within the same phase?

The implications with the new FAQ is that "immediately" doesn't actually mean *this very instant*, but rather just that these cards can be scored outside the end phases. 

I think there is a distinction between present and past tense in regards to "score immediately" objectives. Blood for the Blood God says score immediately if 3 fighters "made" a charge action this phase. So it seems yes you could play it at anytime as long as 3 of your fighters made a charge action during the phase you intend to play it.

however, Advancing Strike states, score immediately When your warband "takes" an enemy model out of action in enemy territory. So as I read it you could not score this objective later in the phase as "takes" refers to right now as the action is happening.

also Blood for the Blood God states "in this phase" while Advancing strike doesn't. So if you try to argue that tenses don't matter than you'd have to argue for being able to score Advancing strike during any phase as long as your warband took an enemy fighter out of action in enemy territory previously at some point.

so if the stipulation is "past tense" then you look at any other stipulations which would be "during this phase" for Blood for the Blood God. And if it's "present tense" it literally needs to be scored "now" when the action happens. 

[Sleboda]

Agreed.

[Goblin-King]

Makes sense.

So I could score Blood for the Blood God at ANY instant it's in my hand and I meet the criteria?
Even if I just drew the objective because I scored another immediately.

All that matters is whether it an "instant" or a "state"?

[Tutenkharnage]

Not exactly. You can't score an objective during the action phase, draw a new objective card, and immediately score that new card. You can, however, draw the new card, wait until the end of another action or activation, and score it then, as described in the "Objective Cards in the Action Phase" callout on page 25 of the rulebook. (This callout also explains why orruk players can't score "Too Dumb to Die" under certain circumstances described in the FAQ: "score immediately" really means "score after an action or activation," so if the fighter is taken out of action before then, the card can't be scored even if the fighter survived damage from a weapon that dealt 3 or more damage.)

Hope this helps!