Shadespire community FAQ

[ReynakZhen]

So, i'm looking at the upgrade card 'Flickering Image' which reads, Reaction: After an Attack action made by this fighter that scores a critical hit, you can push them up to two hexes.

Now, my question is, does that mean I push MY fighter up to two hexes, or, the target(s) of my attack up to two hexes? The flavor text on the card, which reads: "This fighter seems to flicker and disappear at random, emerging behind his foes with his sword ready", seems to suggest that I move MY fighter up to two hexes. Just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this.

Edited November 5, 2017 by ReynakZhen

[Killax]

Its your fighter, intention just based on rules is not always the clearest. 

[Killax]

Just wanted to give an example here of where Swift Strike does something, by large because the Facebook page has the subject continuely popping up.



Swift Strike has the Reaction that before you make an Attack Action you can push the model once hex. Currently the rules still state that in order to make an Attack Action you should still have a legal Attack Action option before that. Based on weapon range.

In the above example the Red circle represents a Bloodreaver, the Blue circle a random opponent and the X represents an Objective. In this case you can see the advantage of Swift Strike. As it allows the fighter to Move + make a legal Attack Action and thus move onto the Objective, which otherwise would not be possible due to the maximum Movement.

Some players seem under the impression that the Reaction can be done before having a legal target in range and the likely reason why this isn't possible has to do with it being a Move that wouldn't require a Move or Charge Action. 

The question hasn't appeared on TGA but Warhammer Underworld doesn't allow for illigal Actions. A thing to note here aswell is that with a Move Action you cannot end up in the same hex either and Charge Actions can only be made IF there is a legal target for the following Attack Action.

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

I've pinned this topic which should hopefully help anybody with any questions. 

[zabbraxas]

Thanks for the pin, hope it's gonna be helpfull. I made the update of the first post with the new awnser tommorow

[Killax]

In regards to Time Trap:
 

Quote

After a ride on the train I've basically found the awnser which so far doesn't speak against itself. It's two parts so feel free to grab a cup of coffee.

Choose a fighter. They can make an Action.
1. You can make another Action with the model again if it's a legal Action as the game only allows you to make legal Actions to begin with (this applies for Move, Attack etc.)
1a. The moment you Charged with a fighter you have made a Move and Attack action. Based on how Move actions are defined you cannot make two Move actions with a single warrior ever. You can also not make another Charge as a charge consists out of a Move and Attack action.
1b. The moment you Charged with a fighter you cannot Activate him again, however as we do know from other examples, we can make multiple Attack actions with a model that Charged in several occasions, such as with Reactions.

Based on this, I'd say part 1 allows the Action to do the following:
- Make a Move Action if the model has not made a Move Action.
- Make a Charge Action if the model has not made a Move Action (or thus Charge before).
- Make an Attack Action (there is no restriction put on this Action)
- Go on Guard.

These four options are the only Action options a fighter can make. It does indeed mean that a model who has made an Attack Action before can make another one, Move, Charge or go on Guard aswell. It even allows a model who previously Charged to go on Guard.

Skip your next Activation.
2. "Skipping your next Activation" is an inccorect use of a game term that likely should mean Pass. Skip(ping) has multiple meanings. Which leads to the following options, all are fine by me:
2a. Jump or bounce over (British), and since opponents share Activations I feel you should then just be able to jump over your opponent.
2b. Omit or pass (over), and since this is a game option. I feel you should then just choose Pass for your next Activation.
2c.  Fail to attend, this way you basically leave the tournament. Leave all your gear in the place, just go.

I strongly believe the intend here is that 2b is the term we should think of here. Meaning you choose Pass for your next Activation.

I believe this solves all the previous questions. The continious issue that appears is that some assume making a Charge Action is one Action while in reality it isn't. However we can declare it as one if a fighter has not made a Move Action yet. I have corrected myself on that subject over and over again aswell. 

In regards to Objectives being 'occupied Hexes'.

 

Awnsers are non-official.
 

[Inaspin]

So we played undead yesterday.... Just to clarify, when a Sep Guard model is 'killed' for the first time, the attacker gains a glory point, any additional wounds are not carried over and the model jumps up in the same square inspired (with any upgrades)?

[Sleboda]

Nope.  The model is removed and all tokens on it (wound) are as well.  He comes back only as per the rules on the Warden's card or the one other card that resurrects models.  It's not auto.

[Wallack]

5 hours ago, Inaspin said:

So we played undead yesterday.... Just to clarify, when a Sep Guard model is 'killed' for the first time, the attacker gains a glory point, any additional wounds are not carried over and the model jumps up in the same square inspired (with any upgrades)?

He comes back to a starting hex with no wounds and keeps the previous upgrades.

If already charged/moved cannot do it again.

[Wallack]

Quick pushback question:

- Stormcast attacks, rolls 1 hammer and 2 swords.

- Reaver defens, rolls 1 critical.

Can I pushback ? I thought I could but I might be wrong.

EDIT: I can only push back on ties with other than 0 successes. No need to answer.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Wallack

[Drofnum]

I have a question with Power Card.  Ignoring any cards that let you draw more, are there any times you draw more cards from your deck other than during end phases or when using an activation to draw more?

I know with objective cards if you score one in the middle of the phase you can draw another to keep your hand at 3, but I couldnt find a rule either way for power cards.  I've been playing that you dont draw new ones except in the instances above but would like to make sure i'm playing correctly.

[Killax]

On 10-11-2017 at 8:45 PM, Drofnum said:

I have a question with Power Card.  Ignoring any cards that let you draw more, are there any times you draw more cards from your deck other than during end phases or when using an activation to draw more?

I know with objective cards if you score one in the middle of the phase you can draw another to keep your hand at 3, but I couldnt find a rule either way for power cards.  I've been playing that you dont draw new ones except in the instances above but would like to make sure i'm playing correctly.

No other than the pre first phase, end phase re-fill, activation or cards that let you draw more you dont draw more Ploy cards 'randomly'. For now that is offcourse.

You also dont suddenly draw new Objectives if you draw them mid game. As such you dont always have 3 Objective cards in hand.

Youve been playing it correctly for the most part. Though the "always have 3 Objectives" part isnt true. Especially if you have score imediatly Objectives.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Killax
You can grab new Objectives with the immediatelies.

[Killax]

14 hours ago, Wallack said:

 

EDIT: I can only push back on ties with other than 0 successes. No need to answer.

Correct, one can only push back on a draw result, succes or critical succes unless otherwise stated.

[Drofnum]

On 11/11/2017 at 12:50 AM, Killax said:

No other than the pre first phase, end phase re-fill, activation or cards that let you draw more you dont draw more Ploy cards 'randomly'. For now that is offcourse.

You also dont suddenly draw new Objectives if you draw them mid game. As such you dont always have 3 Objective cards in hand.

Youve been playing it correctly for the most part. Though the "always have 3 Objectives" part isnt true. Especially if you have score imediatly Objectives.

I agree on the power cards.  But on the objective cards, Page 25 under "Objective cards in the action phase" it states that if you score a card in the action phase you discard it face up, gain the glory, then immediately draw another card. Quoting the relevant text: "If an objective card is scored during an action phase, that player can immediately draw another objective card." 

Maybe this would only happen in the power phase and not the score immediate ones, but as written I feel like you would still draw for both.

[Killax]

42 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

I agree on the power cards.  But on the objective cards, Page 25 under "Objective cards in the action phase" it states that if you score a card in the action phase you discard it face up, gain the glory, then immediately draw another card. Quoting the relevant text: "If an objective card is scored during an action phase, that player can immediately draw another objective card." 

Maybe this would only happen in the power phase and not the score immediate ones, but as written I feel like you would still draw for both.

You are correct! You do draw new ones (if you wish) from the score immediately Objectives. 

The last sentence of the previous qoute shouldn't be especially.  Though as before, you don't always have 3 Objectives in hand but you indeed will most of the time  

Edited November 13, 2017 by Killax

[Killax]

Still a great card but one to keep in mind:


Score immediatly cards can only be scored immediatly. Nontheless I like it because as above, when you do you do see another Objective cards and basically gain 2 additional Glory in the middle of a phase, which can be a real game changer.

Cheers,

[Killax]

Added:



This was in responce to some players still being uncertain about returned models being able to do actions twice.
Dave Sanders is the developer of the game so this is an official awnser aswell.

A returned fighter can still only make the Actions he would legally be able to make. A returned fighter is still the same fighter, does not lose Upgrades, Inspire or can negate the rule that limits a Move action to be one per fighter per Action phase. 

[Rintrah56]

Something that came up in a game I played yesterday... (for context, playing against my other half who isn't a regular gamer - so it was interesting to see how she interpreted things). Sorry if this has been covered - I had a quick scan of the GW FAQ and this thread and didn't see it.

Me playing Insensate (Bloodreavers - next attack against me only causes 1 damage) vs opponent playing Righteous Zeal (Stomcast - +1 damage to their next attack)

After my activation, in the power phase I played Insensate to protect a fighter who only had 2 wounds left, knowing my opponent would be attacking that fighter next. I thought that would make my fighter 'safe' because the worst that could happen was him going down to 1 wounds, but not actually dying. My opponent responded by playing Righteous Zeal.

I said there wasn't much point her playing RZ because no matter how many extra damage she added, Insensate would mean I only take 1 anyway. She queried why her card didn't then kick in after that i.e. her fighter by default deals 2 damage, so Insensate reduces that to 1, but then Righteous Zeal adds 1 to that, meaning total of 2. 

My view is that RZ would add 1 to the default damage (taking 2 to 3), then be brought back down to 1 by Insensate. But we had a bit of a discussion around whether the order in which the cards are played made any difference - basically whether the order that you add/reduce the damage to in this situation depends on which of the two cards was played first.

In the end we didn't agree, so just rolled off to decide which way to play it.

Any thoughts?

 

[Killax]

@Rintrah56 my thake on it is that the model with Insensate would only still suffer one damage.
Reason being that Righteous Zeal adds damage to the first attack action, suffering damage occurs after that and Insensate automatically puts that damage to one instead. 

Another question I have is how you guys currently keep track of succesful attack Actions in conjunction with attacking multiple targets at the same time. For example:
The Harvester attacks two models, successes with one and misses the other. Can my opponent now use The Necromancer Commands for his "second attack" or can't he do this because the first model was succesfully attacked?

At the game yesterday we ruled it as it being posible but technically speaking attacks like that arn't multiple attack actions, or at least that's not how the rulesbook states we should see them. 
 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Killax

[Rintrah56]

I agree with you re: insensate vs righteous zeal. Really curious to see if there’s any other views or if my other half was just being cheeky ?

re: attacking multiple targets, see page 21 of rule book. Box in top right corner: “each of these attack actions is a separate action”,  so I would say yes it can be used for the second attack.

[annarborhawk]

Probably an easy one here. 

Several Ploy cards trigger on next "attack" action.  In the store I was playing, they were saying that if I performed a "charge"  as my next action, those ploys do not trigger, because a "charge" action is distinct from a simple "attack" action. (I guess the argument is that those ploy cards would be too powerful if they could be used by charging models??)

To me, though, the rules seemed pretty clear that a "charge" action is effectively both a "move" and "attack" action, so that any ploy triggered by either of those actions is triggered by the charge.  Correct?

And if so, is there any authoritative source I can point to?

[Rintrah56]

I agree - a charge is explicitly stated (page 22) to be a move action and then (note: separate) an attack action, therefore I’d say the attack part of the charge can be ‘the next attack action’ for ploy purposes.

The trade off is a the same as for all charges - your fighter then can’t do much/anything else for the rest of the round so is at risk of being a sitting duck...

Edited November 17, 2017 by Rintrah56

[Killax]

@annarborhawk you actually played it as correct as can be, a Charge Action is a Move and Attack Action for one Activation. A lot of newer players and even shop owners who browsed the rules might assume a Charge Action works differently but so far the rules repeat 3 times that they are a Move Action and Attack Action. As Move Actions are limited to one per fighter per Action Phase the logic comes in that something that would affect either Move Action or Attack Action or both would indeed also affect a Charge Action (made up of Move and Attack).

Another thing to keep in mind as a few rules of tumbs are:
- You can only make a Move Action if you end up moving in another Hex. So even 'moving back to start' is not optional.
- You can only make Attack Actions against enemy fighters that are in your weapon's range. You cannot preform an Attack Action while out of range (at all).
- So in order to be able to make a Charge Action at all you have to be able to do both. This is where pre-hex counting comes in. Failed Charge Actions are no option, like failed Move Actions and failed targeting for Attack Actions are no option to preform. 

The pages your players will need to read and are probably the most important of all are 18,19,20,21 and 22. These cover all the ins and outs of Actions. Specifically Charge Actions are explained on page 22.

[Goblin-King]

Question:

The card "Shardcaller": At the beginning of each Action Phase, you can switch an objective held by this fighter with any other objective.

Does "the beginning of each action phase" mean the first thing that happens after any end phase? Meaning once per round. Or can you use it several times during a turn?
I want to say it's once per round. But that just makes it an incredible narrow window where you can benefit from it. Especially since it's an upgrade and not a ploy.
Start of first round you obviously can't use it.
Start of second/third round. You need to: 1. hold the card - 2. have already scored points - 3. already have a fighter in place.

So two chances in the entire game, with a lot of pieces that need to fall in place.

So how does this card work?

[Killax]

The beginning of the Action phase is before any activations are made. Thus also before Power step or End phase

Each game has 3 rounds each round has one Action phase. 

The  card remains great because it synergizes very well with several Objective cards.