Shadespire community FAQ

[Tutenkharnage]

A fighter who is taken out of action can't be pushed back. The "Out of action" section on page 20 states, "Once a fighter has a number of wound tokens on their fighter card equal to or greater than their Wounds characteristic, they are taken out of action. Remove them and their tokens from the battlefield and clear all tokens from their fighter card." If your attack is successful, you resolve the action and damage the fighter before checking whether the fighter can be driven back. Since the fighter would be removed from the battlefield immediately, the fighter cannot be driven back.

[KoganStyle]

Can mirror move be used to counteract the Fanatic? 

Mirror move

Reaction: Play this after an opponent pushes a fighter. Choose a different fighter and push them the same number of hexes

Sourtongue action states that you scatter 4 and push 3 hexes along the chain. If he pushes into an occupied hex you first deal one damage to the fighter and then push them hex one away.

So can you play Mirror Move when:

a) The Fighter is pushed away, but before Sourtongue moves into the hex (i.e. you can choose another goblin as the' different fighter' and push them around) Pushing Sourtongue is an option wouldn't he end up in the hex he intended to go? What happens if you push Sourtongue back one? 

b) When Sourtongue pushes into the now empty hex (i.e. you can now pick the fighter as the 'different fighter' and push him one hex out of the likely path of Sourtongue)

c) Once all pushes have completed, and pick one fighter (other than Sourtongue) and move them 3 hexes as per Sourtongue's total push

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by KoganStyle
More Sourtongue nonsense

[PJetski]

12 hours ago, Tutenkharnage said:

A fighter who is taken out of action can't be pushed back. The "Out of action" section on page 20 states, "Once a fighter has a number of wound tokens on their fighter card equal to or greater than their Wounds characteristic, they are taken out of action. Remove them and their tokens from the battlefield and clear all tokens from their fighter card."

If your attack is successful, you resolve the action and damage the fighter before checking whether the fighter can be driven back. Since the fighter would be removed from the battlefield immediately, the fighter cannot be driven back.

You have made an assumption with this claim, and I don't think it is supported in the rules.

The rules for a successful attack say:

"Resolve the action - take a number of wound tokens equal to the Damage characteristic of the Attack action and place them on the target fighter's card. The target can also be driven back"

Checking for Driven Back is part of resolving the action. It doesn't specify any condition on surviving the attack like, or a timing clause such as "Then, the target can also be driven back", so my interpretation is that Driven Back is checked at the same time as placing the wound tokens.

[Tutenkharnage]

No, because you clearly "resolve the action" by putting wound tokens on the fighter, and as soon as the number of tokens is high enough, the fighter is taken out of action. You're trying to argue that the sequence goes like this:

1. Place the wound tokens.
2. Drive the fighter back.
3. Take the fighter out of action if you can.

The rules on page 20 clearly state that there is nothing that happens between step 1 and step 3; it's "if wound tokens are high enough, the fighter is taken out of action."

[Red Drake]

Think of the order as the following: 

successful attack roll

deal damage

drive back

 

a fighter dies at the deal damage step, and won’t be driven back if it dies, if it survives, its driven back, and then the attack action ends

[PJetski]

7 minutes ago, Tutenkharnage said:

No, because you clearly "resolve the action" by putting wound tokens on the fighter, and as soon as the number of tokens is high enough, the fighter is taken out of action. You're trying to argue that the sequence goes like this:

1. Place the wound tokens.
2. Drive the fighter back.
3. Take the fighter out of action if you can.

The rules on page 20 clearly state that there is nothing that happens between step 1 and step 3; it's "if wound tokens are high enough, the fighter is taken out of action."

Again, I don't see where this is stated in the rules. To the contrary, the passage I am referencing seems to imply that Driven Back is done at the same time as placing wound tokens.

Let's assume that a fatal attack means you do not get to apply Driven Back. What happens if you roll a draw with a fatal attack (with at least one success) but your enemy is Trapped? The attack would typically be a success, but since you would deal fatal damage you are not able to Drive Back your target, which means they are not actually Trapped, which means the attack is no longer successful...

So either fatal attacks do not trigger Trapped, or fighters are Driven Back at the same time as wound tokens are placed, as suggested on Page 19.

[Tutenkharnage]

No, because the trapped rule only applies to an attack that would normally be unsuccessful because you didn't roll more successes than your target. It isn't related to what we're talking about, which is what happens if you make a successful attack action.

[couchmonster]

Newbie question...would Archers Focus work on Vortemis' Bolt of Change spell attack action?

[Skyeline]

11 hours ago, couchmonster said:

Newbie question...would Archers Focus work on Vortemis' Bolt of Change spell attack action?

It doesn't specify which type of dice specifically, so it would indeed work for Vortemis' Bolt of Change.

Archer's Focus
"You can re-roll one dice in the attack roll each time this fighter makes an Attack action with a Range of 3 or more"

Other cards with similar effects, such as Awakened weapon will sometimes specify "attack dice" which do not work with spell attack actions.

Awakened Weapon
"You can re-roll one attack dice each time this fighter makes an Attack action"

Edited February 8, 2019 by Skyeline
spelling

[couchmonster]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:35 PM, Skyeline said:

It doesn't specify which type of dice specifically, so it would indeed work for Vortemis' Bolt of Change.

Archer's Focus
"You can re-roll one dice in the attack roll each time this fighter makes an Attack action with a Range of 3 or more"

Other cards with similar effects, such as Awakened weapon will sometimes specify "attack dice" which do not work with spell attack actions.

Awakened Weapon
"You can re-roll one attack dice each time this fighter makes an Attack action"

I thought so, but being fresh to this game thought I'd better check with a brother in the know

Thanks 

[KoganStyle]

On 1/31/2019 at 2:19 PM, KoganStyle said:

Can mirror move be used to counteract the Fanatic? 

Mirror move

Reaction: Play this after an opponent pushes a fighter. Choose a different fighter and push them the same number of hexes

Sourtongue action states that you scatter 4 and push 3 hexes along the chain. If he pushes into an occupied hex you first deal one damage to the fighter and then push them hex one away.

So can you play Mirror Move when:

a) The Fighter is pushed away, but before Sourtongue moves into the hex (i.e. you can choose another goblin as the' different fighter' and push them around) Pushing Sourtongue is an option wouldn't he end up in the hex he intended to go? What happens if you push Sourtongue back one? 

b) When Sourtongue pushes into the now empty hex (i.e. you can now pick the fighter as the 'different fighter' and push him one hex out of the likely path of Sourtongue)

c) Once all pushes have completed, and pick one fighter (other than Sourtongue) and move them 3 hexes as per Sourtongue's total push

 

 

Any thoughts?

[Skyeline]

I don't believe you'd be able to use Mirror Move to get out of Sourtongue's way. (So, option C from your list above)

Mirror Move explicitly uses the word "after" in its reaction condition which makes it clear that you must wait until a push is completed before being able to use it. Sourtongue's push on the other hand while feeling like multiple 1 hex pushes is in fact a single 3 hex push, as defined on the action itself (Scatter 4 > Push 3, rather than Scatter 4 > Push 1 x 3 times).

Another way to look at it is to compare Mirror Move to any other 3 hex push that doesn't happen to be tied to Zarbag's favorite twirling loon. If an opponent used Treasure Lust for example, you wouldn't use Mirror Move before they've completed the full 3 pushes (or less if they decided they didn't need to go a full 3 hexes).

[Sleboda]

I agree, mostly, @Skyeline, but it sure does seem like three pushes when the controller sets the path up to hit one guy three times.

[Skyeline]

I don't disagree. Even when using Sourtongue myself it often feels like multiple one hex pushes when I roll a really disjointed scatter and try to figure out the best way to maneuver it. Ultimately though it's just a rather convoluted 3 hex push going by wording we have available to us.

Really it's just the scatter part in particular that makes it feel so much unlike a single push.

[KoganStyle]

14 hours ago, Skyeline said:

I don't believe you'd be able to use Mirror Move to get out of Sourtongue's way. (So, option C from your list above)

Mirror Move explicitly uses the word "after" in its reaction condition which makes it clear that you must wait until a push is completed before being able to use it. Sourtongue's push on the other hand while feeling like multiple 1 hex pushes is in fact a single 3 hex push, as defined on the action itself (Scatter 4 > Push 3, rather than Scatter 4 > Push 1 x 3 times).

Another way to look at it is to compare Mirror Move to any other 3 hex push that doesn't happen to be tied to Zarbag's favorite twirling loon. If an opponent used Treasure Lust for example, you wouldn't use Mirror Move before they've completed the full 3 pushes (or less if they decided they didn't need to go a full 3 hexes).

I understand that option C is correct as Sourtongue does push three hexes in his own Loony way, but what about option A if the opposing fighter only gets pushed once/first time. The push has completed (for that fighter). 

The question is.... Is a push, within a push, a push? Thanks for this brain teaser Mirror Move, thanks a lot 🤣🤣

Edited February 13, 2019 by KoganStyle

[Skyeline]

I... yes..? No..?.... 🤔 Hmmm... time to consult Sourtongue's essay of a card, Mirror Move, and the rulebook again.

 

So. Sourtongue's card seems to make the case that it's possible based on the wording of this part:

Quote

"[...] before he is pushed the fighter in that hex suffers 1 damage and you push that fighter one hex -- this push must take that fighter further away from Sourtongue. [...]"

So... yes? I guess you can play mirror move off of that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The part of this that hurts my brain is how Mirror Move could then interact with a model being driven back as part of an attack action. Per the rulebook on Driven Back:

Quote

"If the target of an Attack action can be driven back, the attacking player can choose to push the target one hex."

I guess Mirror Move works on driven back then, too. You learn something new everyday. Maybe we'll see an FAQ about this in the future.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Skyeline

[ReynakZhen]

There is a clarification on this in the newest FAQ:

[Zimagic]

With the new FAQ, the Cursebreaker Acolytes are reffered to as being on guard when they are inspired. If they charge when inspired, will that trigger Change of Tactics?

[Skyeline]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:43 AM, Zimagic said:

With the new FAQ, the Cursebreaker Acolytes are reffered to as being on guard when they are inspired. If they charge when inspired, will that trigger Change of Tactics?

Can you link where you're seeing the reference to being on guard? I recall this being true when the last round of FAQs was released, but then being very quickly changed to reflect that their inspired state is not actually "on guard"

This is the only text I can find left in the Designer's Commentary that references Ammis' and Rastus' inspired defense:

STORMSIRE’S CURSEBREAKERS – FIGHTERS
Q: How does Cleave work against Ammis and Rastus from Stormsire’s Cursebreakers when they are Inspired?
A: When an Attack action has Cleave, the target cannot count Block symbols as successes in their defence roll. This means that Ammis and Rastus, once Inspired can use Dodge and Crit symbols (and any relevant support symbols) but not Block symbols as successes when they are the target of an Attack action with Cleave.

[Zimagic]

On 3/28/2019 at 6:58 PM, Skyeline said:

Can you link where you're seeing the reference to being on guard? I recall this being true when the last round of FAQs was released, but then being very quickly changed to reflect that their inspired state is not actually "on guard"

This is the only text I can find left in the Designer's Commentary that references Ammis' and Rastus' inspired defense:

STORMSIRE’S CURSEBREAKERS – FIGHTERS
Q: How does Cleave work against Ammis and Rastus from Stormsire’s Cursebreakers when they are Inspired?
A: When an Attack action has Cleave, the target cannot count Block symbols as successes in their defence roll. This means that Ammis and Rastus, once Inspired can use Dodge and Crit symbols (and any relevant support symbols) but not Block symbols as successes when they are the target of an Attack action with Cleave.

Ok, they made a version, published it, realised it was misleading and edited it. I got to it before the edit apprently:

[PJetski]

Can you score Death From Afar if the final damage is dealt with Trap and/or Pit Trap?

"Score this immediately if a friendly fighter takes an enemy out of action while at least 3 hexes from that fighter".

I assume Pit Trap does not because it happens "after an attack Action that drives an enemy fighter back", but Trap happens "during a friendly fighter's attack". What do you guys think?

[Red Drake]

The fighter does not take the enemy out of action, trap/pit trap does

[Twisted magpie]

If my opponent had a model with Lightening whip equipped and I use aggressive defense to return an attack and I kill my opponent does the whip still do an extra damage to me?

I ask because the who is a reaction to the attack and if the opponent is dead he can't react. Right?

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, Twisted magpie said:

If my opponent had a model with Lightening whip equipped and I use aggressive defense to return an attack and I kill my opponent does the whip still do an extra damage to me?

I ask because the who is a reaction to the attack and if the opponent is dead he can't react. Right?

Yes, it does. The reaction window for Aggressive Defense is "During an Attack Action that targets a Friendly Fighter, before the dice are rolled" and the window for Lightning Whip is "After this fighter's attack action that succeeds", so you both React during different windows. 

Basically your opponent declares an attack -> Aggressive Defense before they roll -> They roll, presumably succeed, and react with Lightning Whip -> Attack is now complete, you can make your Aggressive Defense attack. 

[Twisted magpie]

Karsus the chained uses his area attack when inspired but misses his first hit. In reaction I play Maddening cackle and uninspire him.

Can he continue his area attack or does he lose the ability immediately?