tchu Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Thanks @Killax for the write up! I'm pushing on with the objective build and I definitely enjoy it. Just have to iron out the kinks and ensure I'm not shooting myself in the foot by handling Round 1 poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, tchu said: Thanks @Killax for the write up! I'm pushing on with the objective build and I definitely enjoy it. Just have to iron out the kinks and ensure I'm not shooting myself in the foot by handling Round 1 poorly. Cheers, it's just something you have to be somewhat comfortable with, as above the Prince is great bait. There is a suggestion that your opponent is doing something good with their 3 damage dudes, dealing 3 damage to a dude with 3 health and all that but the fact of the matter is that you could really care less. In fact in many cases you'd rather have them thake the bait with the Prince than touch on your Petitioners, which is why Garrek's Reavers can be a hard match up. I had a small discussion with a mate of mine about them too, I think the games you can only really lose when playing the Objective token orientated deck is to have the Warden be gone in phase 1. It's technically hard to do but still possible with certain card combinations. This is why cards like Illusonary Fighter, Shardfall, Confusion, Distraction and Terrifying are so incredibly important. I know it's half the Ploys right there but it's really all you need. As the moment your opponent is in your territory and does not manage to kill the Warden the game is going your way fast. The same discussion I have with my mate is the key to succes for this Warband too and in my opinion it boils down to the massive ammount of Cleave the Warband has acces too, while true that this part is irrelevant against Reavers the Champion or Harvester are still very potent in both match ups. My current favourte Ploys for this deck are the following and I think it might very well be the most consistent defensively effective Ploy set up. To the point where the game can boil down to a show-off in Distractions, Sidesteps and Confusions. - Ceaseles Attack (offense) - Danse Macabre (both) - Restless Dead (offense) - Terrifying Screams (both) - The Necromancer Commands (offense) - Confusion (both) - Sidestep (both) - Shardfall (both) - Distraction (both) - Illusory Fighter (both) The prime reason why I like this set up so much for them is that it globally allows you to increase your defences and be extremely well prepaired for any phase 1 offense. Once your opponent goes in though you should be able to awnser thanks to the Objective based Objective cards. The Upgrades then taken usually increase offense and mean you can really snowball phase 2 and 3. And yes, other exclusive Ploy cards for the Sepulchral Guard are great too it's just that most others become more relevant in phase 2 and up but being around and thaking it somewhat on the chin phase 1 is what the Warband is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 FWIW, I have been upping the size of my power deck again. Currently at 28 and still having success. I just use several cards that do similar things and make use of what I get. Plus, there are many upgrades I like, so I don't mind the requirement to add more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Sounds cool but why so many Upgrades then? I feel 22 is still cool, much more feels like consistantly discarding opening hands which defeats the point of running more cards to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I don't make my strategy tie to the power deck. Petty much whatever pops up will be helpful. The variety keeps things fresh and encourages me to try different paths to victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I've had a game every day this week so far against a mate of mine who plays Orruks. To start the week I built (what I thought) an offensive deck. I dropped Hold 1 - 5, resulting in the following: Battle Without End Crushing Force Denial More Able Bodies Vicorious Duel Ploymaster Flawless Strategy March of the Dead Supremacy Superior Tactician Skills Unforgotten Determined Defender ---------- Fatal Strike Frightening Speed Helpful Whispers Soultrap Great Speed Ancient Commander Daemonic Weapon Great Strength Lethal Lunge Total Offence Deathly Charge ---------- Danse Macabre Restless Dead Terrifying Screams The Necromancer Commands Ceaseless Attacks Duel of Wits Shattering Terrain Bone Shrapnel Daylight Robbery Sidestep Distraction I have to say, this was a really fun deck to play; but the offensiveness of the Orruks did me in and I lost 2-0 over two days. I do think against other Guard or Bloodreaver lists this deck would work really well. The fact that I couldn't reliably kill an Orruk every turn just resulted in me not getting enough glory early on. I think I was also very unlucky with my cards - pulling a lot of upgrades and not enough ploys. Either way, yesterday we played again and I used a more defensive deck: Hold 1 - 5 Ploymaster Flawless Strategy March of the Dead Supremacy Superior Tactician Skills Unforgotten Determined Defender ---------- Shardcaller Frightening Speed Helpful Whispers Soultrap Great Speed Ancient Commander Daemonic Weapon Great Strength Lethal Lunge Total Offence Deathly Charge ---------- Danse Macabre Restless Dead Terrifying Screams The Necromancer Commands Ceaseless Attacks Duel of Wits Shattering Terrain Bone Shrapnel Daylight Robbery Sidestep Distraction You'll notice that the ploys are identical, and the upgrades only have a single change. Unfortunately, Shardcaller didn't appear yesterday so I didn't get a chance to play with that. I did however manage to win the game. A combination of scoring on Hold objectives during the first phase, and a sneaky reanimation + sidestep + scream + move gave me Supremacy in turn 1 even thought I only had two objectives in my area. Focusing on scoring as opposed to killing also led me to fishing for ploys during turns 2 and 3. I think this is really important for us, as we don't tend to have the capacity to stand toe to toe with (especially) the Orruks and Stormcast. When my Warden got 'Edbutted in turn 3 I thought it was all over, as I had a feeling my opponent had denial. Turn 3, activation 3 I managed to pull Restless Dead which allowed me to reanimate my Harvester and run through a gap in his line to prevent him from scoring Denial. I'm much happier with this defensive deck - I'm hoping Shardcaller will prevent it from being too swingy; especially if I play against a defensive Stormcast player who has three objectives. I'm really liking the idea of swapping objectives and preventing things like Determined Defender whilst at the same time allowing me to score on a Hold objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peegee Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Hi guys ! A rule clarification that I need : if I bring back twice the same fighter with the Warden, is it considered "two fighters" for exaltation purpose (and objective) ? Thanks and long live the deads ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblin-King Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Peegee said: A rule clarification that I need : if I bring back twice the same fighter with the Warden, is it considered "two fighters" for exaltation purpose (and objective) ? No. His inspired condition is bringing two fighters back, not using his resurrection powers twice. Sorry - two different fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Peegee said: Hi guys ! A rule clarification that I need : if I bring back twice the same fighter with the Warden, is it considered "two fighters" for exaltation purpose (and objective) ? Thanks and long live the deads ! No, see the community FAQ on this too. Hope that December the 1st the next FAQ will be released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peegee Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 In my opinion it's a huge balance issue. That makes the Warden the most difficult Leader to exalt and the Guard an even more difficult warband to play... I stick to it anyway but I do suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Changer said: I've had a game every day this week so far against a mate of mine who plays Orruks. To start the week I built (what I thought) an offensive deck. I dropped Hold 1 - 5, resulting in the following: - Melee deck I have to say, this was a really fun deck to play; but the offensiveness of the Orruks did me in and I lost 2-0 over two days. I do think against other Guard or Bloodreaver lists this deck would work really well. The fact that I couldn't reliably kill an Orruk every turn just resulted in me not getting enough glory early on. I think I was also very unlucky with my cards - pulling a lot of upgrades and not enough ploys. Either way, yesterday we played again and I used a more defensive deck: - Objective deck You'll notice that the ploys are identical, and the upgrades only have a single change. Unfortunately, Shardcaller didn't appear yesterday so I didn't get a chance to play with that. I did however manage to win the game. A combination of scoring on Hold objectives during the first phase, and a sneaky reanimation + sidestep + scream + move gave me Supremacy in turn 1 even thought I only had two objectives in my area. Focusing on scoring as opposed to killing also led me to fishing for ploys during turns 2 and 3. I think this is really important for us, as we don't tend to have the capacity to stand toe to toe with (especially) the Orruks and Stormcast. When my Warden got 'Edbutted in turn 3 I thought it was all over, as I had a feeling my opponent had denial. Turn 3, activation 3 I managed to pull Restless Dead which allowed me to reanimate my Harvester and run through a gap in his line to prevent him from scoring Denial. I'm much happier with this defensive deck - I'm hoping Shardcaller will prevent it from being too swingy; especially if I play against a defensive Stormcast player who has three objectives. I'm really liking the idea of swapping objectives and preventing things like Determined Defender whilst at the same time allowing me to score on a Hold objective. As before, I think removing the Hold Objectives in Sepulchral Guard is playing them with a MASSIVE handicap, being Movement 2. As you are very unlikely to charge and move out first I still do date think that playing a deck without Hold Objectives with Sepulchral Guard is a severe mistake. There reason is simple: - The moment you would play without them means your Petitioners are not going to accumulate as much Glory as they would with the Holds and basically are just free Glory for your opponent to thake. It sounds simple because it is . - The moment you would play without them means your Warden has to charge more often, meaning you lose tactical flexability in his activations and most important set him up to grab for your opponent. As a result I think your Objective based deck is much better. I too like Shardcaller, my friend even managed to get a Key in there and is doing well with it too. It can be a dead card phase 1 and 2 but this isn't really a massive issue because Sepulchral Guard are a 'slow burner' anyways. Meaning it's very unlikely they will have lots of kills phase 1 unless your opponent is making mistakes. The only moment the Sepulchral Guard can indeed be in any ammount of trouble is if opponent reach the Warden quickly so that is really the only thing that can go wrong. By playing into Objectives movement 2 stops becomming an issue and more importantly moving Petitoners actually becomes an extremely relevant part of the game. As mentioned before, all any game really requires of them is to be on an Objective and stay put. This way all the Holds become relevant, Defender becomes relevant and even Tactical 1-2 and 3-4 become serious considerations to include the moment Shardcaller is in the deck and I think it should. As for comments on the Objective deck: - Upgrades: I would trade Great Speed for Grim Cleave, it significantly improves your Stormcast and Orruk match up. To the point that when you have it and need it there is nothing your opponent can really do to stop you. With it even the Warden becomes less relevant to your plans. So far my results with the Sepulchral Guard have been the best because of it. They are the only Warband right now who have acces to 3 Cleave fighters, it's nuts. - Ploys: I would trade both Dual of Wits and Daylight Robbery for Confusion and Illusory Fighter. The reason for this is very simple again. It protects your key assets, to the point where it becomes virtually impossible to kill the Warden at all. In addition this strategy is not coinflip based in the slightest. Confusion is more up for debate but Illusory Fighter should become an auto-include for all decks as it's the closest to a free Move Action. In addition a reason as to why Confusion is particulary strong in the 5+ fighter Warbands comes from the fact that several starting hexes are adjacent. It means you can again move your Warden out of the way or even draw in opponents into spread attacks with the Harvester or range 2 attacks with the Warden. It's so incredibly strong that I wouldn't go without either. They are both defensive and offensive cards. 19 minutes ago, Peegee said: In my opinion it's a huge balance issue. That makes the Warden the most difficult Leader to exalt and the Guard an even more difficult warband to play... I stick to it anyway but I do suffer. This isn't true in the slightest. The Sepulchal Guard are actually very easy to play as long as you follow a good Objective plan. Despite the "winners" deck I have not seen any reason to go on the full offense with the Guard and the moment you do so your actually handicapping yourself. Defending your own territory makes them excellent, movement 2 is no issue and with Illusory fighter the Warden can jump to wherever. The prime reason as to why the Warden is actually extremely easy to Inspire is Restless Dead. The Warden Inspires with this card the moment you return a second fighter. This card is also arguably the best card in the game. There is no Warband who wouldn't want to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peegee Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Killax said: The Sepulchal Guard are actually very easy to play as long as you follow a good Objective plan. Despite the "winners" deck I have not seen any reason to go on the full offense with the Guard and the moment you do so your actually handicapping yourself. Defending your own territory makes them excellent, movement 2 is no issue and with Illusory fighter the Warden can jump to wherever. I don't claim to be an expert but after 20+ games with a fully defensive and objectives centric deck, I think you have very hard time competing either against the brainless defensive SCE or agressive Orruks. In one case you can't win the Glory points race (especially when you have only 2 objectives) and it's impossible to reach them in 12 activations. In the other case, you get rushed to death (^^) and if the opponent is clever he won't take out your Prince and will focus your Warden. I'll share my deck asap (french cards so I have to find english names) and discuss with you guys my choices. I love the Guard but still feel you lack a bit of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Peegee said: I don't claim to be an expert but after 20+ games with a fully defensive and objectives centric deck, I think you have very hard time competing either against the brainless defensive SCE or agressive Orruks. In one case you can't win the Glory points race (especially when you have only 2 objectives) and it's impossible to reach them in 12 activations. In the other case, you get rushed to death (^^) and if the opponent is clever he won't take out your Prince and will focus your Warden. I'll share my deck asap (french cards so I have to find english names) and discuss with you guys my choices. I love the Guard but still feel you lack a bit of control. Your opponent is free to ignore the Prince, but if your SCE/Orruk player can reach your Warden Round 1 your really doing something wrong in the deployment part of the game. In addition if you run Shardfall, Illusory Fighter, Confusion, Distraction, Terrifying Howl and Sidestep yet your Warden is still taken out some real bad hands are kept. If you have trouble with Orruks and Stormcast then there is also something going wrong with your kept hand as it implies that you either can't keep the Champion around or don't have Grim Cleave or Lethal Lunge in the hand at phase 1 or 2. If anything Sepulchral Guard have the easiest match up against any Shield defensive deck for the simple reason that they have acces to the most Cleave of any Warband. Looking forward to the deck! I guess the lack of control comes either from the initial set up or lack of Shardfall, Illusory Fighter, Confusion, Distraction, Terrifying Howl or Sidestep in the deck. Any deck can use these cards to a great extend and Sepulchral Guard are certainly no exception. Coinflips like Daylight Robbery are fun and all but why even let it come as far as needing to go that route. Other than these control cards there is a ton of offensive support Ploys found in Sepulchral Guard and it's not difficult to go the 50/50 route to only work with 10 amazing Ploys. As before the only mistake I commonly see (which somehow translates to some as hard to play Warbands) is to stop focus on the Objectives you have in hand. If you don't run the Holds suddenly Sepulchral Guard become massively hard to play because you discount the fact that for 1 action you can cover 2 Objectives (at least). The reliance of that income is the key to winning for Guard. You will need to kill some models but you only need the Harvester and Champion. If your opponent ignores the Prince, that's cool too, then he becomes an obnoxious assist that will later on deny Denial and Contained. On the FB pages and sometimes new videos and newer reviewers I see a lot of players liking these coinflip cards but negating the Ploys that stop an opponent regardless of coinflip. To me ploys who have a guaranteed effect are always better as coinflips. Stopping a Distraction is fun but Sidestep and Illusonary Fighter do the exact same, no coinflip needed. edit: @Peegee YOU CAN DO IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peegee Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 @Killax keeping faith man ! Here is the last version of my deck : Objectives Hold Objective 1 Hold Objective 2 Hold Objective 3 Hold Objective 4 Hold Objective 5 Tactical Supremacy 1-2 Tactical Supremacy 3-4 Superior Tactician Supremacy Stymied Determined Defenser Ploymaster Ploys Ceaseless Attacks Restless Dead Terrifying Screams The Necromancer Commands Confusion Distraction Duel of Wits Illusory Fighter Shardfall Sidestep Upgrades Frightening Speed Grim Cleave Lethal Lunge Undying Great Strength Shadeglass Darts Shardcaller Soultrap The Dazzling Key The Shadowed Key I've only played 2 games with that refined version and I feel I'm on the good path. Maybe some tweaking can be made on Upgrades, I don't know. Anyway let's discuss it ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 @Peegee I like 90% of it, can only give some comments on the decks at first and will then come with some examples for the set up as I think the deck has what you want to have largely. First things first, Objectives; I really like the Hold Objectives, think the Tactical Supremacies and Supremacy are a very solid core backbone, especially with Ploymaster and Determined Defender. Other than that though I am not a fan of Superior Tactician or Stymied and the reason for it really is simple, one is actually very hard to score (and only third phase) and the other is too. Instead I actually like Battle Without End and Skills Unforgotten a lot from the SG deck, both play towards the Warden and this is fine. Secondly the Power deck looks very potent as is, in Ploys I only have one suggestion and that's to use Danse Macabre instead of Sidestep. Both are really good but the small niche advantage is that Danse Macabre can lead to pushing two fighters into combat and often an opponent can't deal with the both of them. For Upgrades my mate has had a lot of succes with both keys too but I personally think 1 is actually better as two of them. The prime reason is that in order to get a lot out of either you need Shardcaller first. You could even consider 11 Upgrades (and/or Ploys) but I'd add Deadly Charge first, it might not seem like much but is a massive difference to be able to deal 3 Cleave damage. In addition I'm not too sold on Undying, I like additional wounds too but the moment someone deals 4 damage it's okay up until they can reach the Warden before phase 3, which is ideally 'impossible'. What I would add instead of Undying is Fatal Strike or Daemonic Weapon and again it doesn't seem like much but it is an additional strong Attack Action and it can make the difference. In addition it allows the Champion to be a scary point to kill or add a killer in the form of The Prince or Petitioner. Set up however to me is where a game can allready be lost from the getgo with Sepulchral Guard. Some things/tips I'd like to give here are: - In terms of picking the board I've liked the Staircase a lot (bottom right), often more as the Mausoleum (top left), by large because they make the whole route to combats that much more difficult. If your opponent goes the long way with it just keep calm and let them come, it's what Sepulchral Guard do best anyway. Your Orruk and Stormcast players won't choose to go long willingly. Bloodreaver players might want to attempt it but will get into trouble very quick the moment a Harvester has them right where he wants to. - Do choke the board if you can to 3 or 4 hexes, there technically are only 3 relevant fighters in the Warband which are the Warden, Harvester and Champion, more space is not really required. - Board set ups really should focus on having the Harvester, Champion and Prince in the front, Warden middle-ish and Petitoners in the back. The reason for this is that when ****** hits the fan that Petitioners can be put on Objectives, which then allows you to place the Warden more backwards, this isn't always needed but it's very important to keep it in mind. - Opening your turn by moving two Petitioners to at least two Objectives is always a solid plan, regardless if you have both Objectives or not. This is because your opponent has to assume you have them and the moment you don't there is very little to nothing lost. - To me the Prince is bait and if your opponent doesn't thake it, just leave him be. The only thing he's excellent for is his Knockback, which only does something if an opponent decide to specifically use a Move action to ideally attack from that point multiple times. - The Harvester has one key role against Bloodreavers and the mirror. In that case getting him in there to cause havoc will always be great. Remember that you can push all the fighters he hits too, he's an amazing defensive tool. - The Champion usually is the initial heavy hitter and you can use him well as such. Usually charging is a bad plan for any Sepulchral Guard fighter, except for him. He shines the most against Stormcast and Orruks for obvious reasons. In here they have two key targets: A. Steelheart himself, the only one who has acces to the multi-fighter attacks and these are killing for you and your Warband. Though if you can't reach him but can reach Obryn, that's a fine trade too. Remember that you have a lot of pushes, the Champion doesn't always have to charge. B. Gurzag, the prime model that carries Orruks to begin with, if you can thake him out before Unkillable is applied it's GG for your opponent most of the time. If you can't reach him but can reach Bonekutta that's a fine trade too. Remember that both Hakka and Basha only become dangerous when damaged, you can largely ignore them. The beauty of Deathly Charge is that once you have it you can virtually kill any model with two attacks. As before charging isn't the prime plan but if you can ensure a kill this is all fine. - Lastly the Warden is your main man, for offense and Warband flexability. He should be the last per Round to charge, he doesn't need to be Inspired, usually Lethal Lunge is doing more for you anyway (unless you face the mirror or Garrek's Reavers). When you do have Restless Dead it's his ticket to Inspire, keep in mind though in all games Ive seen so far (and played) only the Harvester and Champion are actually worth it to get back. When you have the Restless Dead, feel free to use them to chop opponents down. In most cases the Warden should relax where he is up until you've got Lethal Lunge ready for him. Keep in mind that he has a range 2 weapon allready and because of that there is no reason to charge him unless you can thake out an enemy with high certainty (thanks to Lethal Lunge). If you only have 2 Objectives on your side, feel free to get cheeky with the Prince and Harvester/Champion but only to bait or confirm a kill. Round 1 and 2 plan is simple, stick to your Objective hand and score. Kill what enters your territory. Round 3 plan is to have Frightning Speed on one of your fighters by then and have it Move as far as possible in enemy territory to negate Denial and Containment for certain. Hope this all helps somewhat, have a nice game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peegee Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Thanks so much for the detailed feedback and strategy tutorial. I'll try all this very soon ! We are lucky to have a fast growing community here and already regular tournaments. So the test will be in real competitive conditions ^^ Thanks again mate ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peegee Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 2 victories against SCE today !!! I finally feel the strengh of the warband, thanks @Killax ! I just have mixed feelings on Determined Defender and Battle Without End. The first is easy to score yet you have to keep it in hands for 2 rounds. The second one is situationnal for me, I've never been with 2 dead fighters in the same round. Anyway I'll keep practising with that version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 @Peegee excellent to hear! Had a 4 man game here last night and while I did lose against SCE I did won against Orruks, though I was playing Bloodreavers. Our Sepulchral Guard player was the winner of the night though and played the above set up, with additional Key and Duel of Wits. It just works out well enough for the deck because you essentially sneak in another Upgrade and Ploy but one of them acts like a Objective card. I think that Determined Defender can only be 'bad' in the first round but after that there is no reason to move Petitioners from the Objectives they should be holding. You only need to keep it in your hand for 2 rounds if you start with the card. This can be an example of discarding your Objective hand for a new one pre-game. If 2 out of 3 Objective cards cannot be scored (at all), ditch the hand. It's not a massive part of the plan, it's just there. Battle Without End can be difficult to score yet it's also a relative easy to score Objective if you have Restless Dead and again the way this can snowball for your next round is just amazing because it should lead to an Inspired Warden too. Happy to hear the results, keep it up, I think you can't go wrong by playing into your Objectives with Sepulchral Guard. It's the Warband I've had the most succes with too, all the great Ploy cards one wants to have are in this Warband. It's hilarious that from the Garrek's Reaver Ploy cards I only actually like one, Insensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblin-King Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 How did your final deck end out Peegee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 The full kataphrane upgrade set isn't out yet right? I mean those cards are likely to come in the new warband decks? I was just thinking that if you got all 6 of those on your warden and just played the final action each activation you might have a (maybe cheesy) deck. Unless I misunderstand the set or the action. OR the guard. I'm still a bit new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblin-King Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 No, only two pieces of the set has been released. Most likely a complete set will be released in the upcoming expansions. Skaven, dwarfs, chaos and sigmar? That should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Turragor said: The full kataphrane upgrade set isn't out yet right? I mean those cards are likely to come in the new warband decks? I was just thinking that if you got all 6 of those on your warden and just played the final action each activation you might have a (maybe cheesy) deck. Unless I misunderstand the set or the action. OR the guard. I'm still a bit new Yeah it could be very interesting to see how these Upgrades preform on the Sepulchral Guard. As mentioned, it's likely the other pieces will be found in Spiteclaw's Swarm, The Chosen Axes, The Farstriders and Magore's Fiends. The real question offcourse will become what the other Upgrades do. The moment two of them are solid Upgrade attacks though I think we're set. One of the reasons why I don't think we'll see many decks with these Artefacts is the numbers involved though, 6 pieces mean you essentially only have 4 slots left for other (often better from the getgo) Upgrades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bademeister Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 You have to score 6 Glory to equip all of them AND you have to draw all of them to be able of equipping. As long as there won't be more cards like battle of wits, where you can draw ploy card, i don't see many decks running the kataphrane set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 35 minutes ago, Bademeister said: You have to score 6 Glory to equip all of them AND you have to draw all of them to be able of equipping. As long as there won't be more cards like battle of wits, where you can draw ploy card, i don't see many decks running the kataphrane set. Yeah that's exactly the case. In addition I also think that it will be quite likely to at least see one Ploy specifically removing an Upgrade. Not only would it make sence in terms of shattering weapons but also brings a very interesting removal concept that doesn't touch on Glory but does keep the game less snowballing. Personally I believe that the Katophrane Artefacts are created for Katophrane Token games. As mentioned before, if you can get 3 Glory by standing on it at the end of a Round I can really see the option to stack all these Artefacts. Linking some cards to that Token makes sence from a design perspective, narrative standpoint and even gives another reason as to why one wants to have a Core set. But otherwise I agree in that I too don't expect these Artefacts to really become a thing in regular 1 vs 1 games. This doesn't really matter though, each game has a massive slew of particular cards that are great from a narrative standpoint but less so competitively. To give another example, due to some reason a lot of players focused on Swift Strike a few weeks ago and really wanted it to work before attacking. From a narrative standpoint I understand that feeling but from a mechanical standpoint it would mean a model could strike into nothing and move, which simply said isn't an option. Likewise I'm quite happy we also can't 'charge into nothing' the fact that we can charge into and out of combat allready is a bit jarring narratively speaking but from a design standpoint only gives the game more tactical depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 11 hours ago, Goblin-King said: No, only two pieces of the set has been released. Most likely a complete set will be released in the upcoming expansions. Skaven, dwarfs, chaos and sigmar? That should do it. It might be an interesting deck and so far I think the guard might suit it best. I mean - is it 4 glory per action (and thus activation). I suppose you need 6 glory and you need to draw those cards to reach that point and then upgrade uninterrupted. Tough as some say. Then again, the first 4 or 5 in the set (if the opponent is focused on denying the full 6 to stop you amassing 4 glory per activation) still buff the recipient nicely making them quite tasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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