Let's chat: Sepulchral Guard

[tchu]

The winning list has gone for a very "Kill everything" approach which seems to be pretty strong at the moment. I'm going to be testing the same tonight as I've already had a few games going the objective route. 

I find that grabbing the early glory and then upgrading your Harvester or Champion and letting them go nuts is a solid plan, but in my first game with Skellies, I managed to lose my Warden very quickly to an insane charge from Bloodreavers, that sucked. 

[CanHammer-darren]

after a few more games, I think playing objective game is a trap for Sepulchral guard.  You just don't move fast enough, and there will always be 2-3 objectives in the opponents territory.  Splashing 1-2 objective type cards is fine (like the one that says hold 2-3 objectives, hold an objective for 2 turns, a great job for a petitioner), but yes, with all the support and ploys and upgrades, they are actually quite killy.....

[tchu]

1 hour ago, CanHammer-darren said:

after a few more games, I think playing objective game is a trap for Sepulchral guard.  You just don't move fast enough, and there will always be 2-3 objectives in the opponents territory.  Splashing 1-2 objective type cards is fine (like the one that says hold 2-3 objectives, hold an objective for 2 turns, a great job for a petitioner), but yes, with all the support and ploys and upgrades, they are actually quite killy.....

Supremacy works for that, I still include it. It's certainly possible to use your last activations to grab some objectives in a hurry and score that glory. 

As much as I would love to Claim the City, It's not likely. 

[Killax]

2 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

after a few more games, I think playing objective game is a trap for Sepulchral guard.  You just don't move fast enough, and there will always be 2-3 objectives in the opponents territory.  Splashing 1-2 objective type cards is fine (like the one that says hold 2-3 objectives, hold an objective for 2 turns, a great job for a petitioner), but yes, with all the support and ploys and upgrades, they are actually quite killy.....

Again I dont get why anyond would ever skip on Holds with Undead. You have 2 guaranteed, for combat purposes you cant use 7 models anyway.

Phase 1, Activation 1, put two Petitoners on Objectives remains the most solid form of playing. As even if you lose them chances ard theyve earned you 2 Glory, which is if you lose them at all.

Hold 1-5, Supremacy and Defender (hold for 2 own activations) give you 7 cards who just require 1 Action from the Warden.

Tournament winner won due to a technical impossible play which wasnt required if he played Holds in the first place.

Without Holds you actually make the Warden harder to play with and it only increases focus on him. With holds you have 2 Petitioners your opponent must deal with/push aswell.

In additon going the aggressive route after that still outs you on oppossing Objectives aswell. You now force your opponent to keep this in consideration on top of it all.

[tchu]

5 minutes ago, Killax said:

Tournament winner won due to a technical impossible play which wasnt required if he played Holds in the first place.

Do you have the breakdown of that? Didn't see it mentioned anywhere. 

[Killax]

1 minute ago, tchu said:

Do you have the breakdown of that? Didn't see it mentioned anywhere. 

Last move, activated the Warden that charged in that phase. To move two.

Opponent was okay with it, I would personally say it now has lead to an impropper game state.

[CanHammer-darren]

only issue with Hold 1-5, is that 2-3 of them will be unachievable most of the time, and thats 2-3 cards i could have used for something else?

[Changer]

So I’ve just tried to come up with a deck that doesn’t focus on objectives. At the moment I don’t have the Orruk deck, and I don’t seem to be able to come up with anything I’m happy with. Instead I’m going to try this tomorrow.

Hold Objective 1 - 5

Tactical Sumpremacy 1 - 2 & 3 - 4

Denial

Supremacy

Battle Without End

Determined Defender

Skills Unforgotten

—————

Shardfall

Grasping Hands

The Necromancer Commands

Bone Shrapnel

Ceaseless Attacks 

Terrifying Scream

Danse Macabre

Sidestep

Restless Dead

Clawing Hands

—————

The Dazzling Key

Frightening Speed

Fatal Strike

Grim Cleave

Great Strength

Deathly Charge

Helpful Whispers

Ancient Commander

Soultrap

Total Offence

 

I’ve got a friendly tournament tomorrow night, 3 or 4 one off games (not best of 3), so we’ll see how it goes.  I’ll report back.

[zabbraxas]

I go as sepulcral as my main band and got a little trouble to win game at first, but now i got a nice win rate.

What i think was a mistake when i start:

-Playing Objective card. If your opponent have 3 objective and put them on the other side of the board(especialy if the board is short side to short side) you  are to slow. I try a semi objective deck with objective 2 and 4 The Dazzling and Shadowed Key (2 glory pointif you got objective 2/4 at the end of third phase) and Shardcaller who allow me too swap objective. It can work well but it need a little to much luck if you have no chance on objective or if you don't go Shardcaller in your first hand it's game over.

-Overprotecting the Warden. Of course lose the Warden early prevent you to do a lot of sepulcral objective card, like march of the dead or Battle without end, but he is one of your most powerfull warrior. In first round he is most of the time safe if he is not overexposed he can easily take ONE blow. Lethal Lunge is a must have for a sepulcral deck, against Bloodreavers or Sepulcral it one shot all warrior except leader,  against orc or liberator you can make a "wall"of skeleton and safely hit with your 3dmg cleave warden from behind.

-Resurect Everything. Resurect is one of the most cheated powerfull ability of the sepulcral but it can also give "free" glory point to your opponent. I go with resurect only key warrior like the champion against ork and stormcast and the reaper against everyone. Some tips for the resurect mecanic: Restless Dead work to trigger Battle whitout end so you can use only one action to play that card. Against Bloodreavers If you resurect all your fighter before end phase he cannot play "it begins" you can also prevent his fighter to been inspired (it need 3 fighter out of fight and no 3 kill).

I think is my 3 biggest initial mistake, i probably go in a full analysis when i got more game with them

[Killax]

I don't believe any mistake can be made by playing all Hold Objectives cards. What I do believe is that's an all or nothing situation. You either want to include them all or none at all. Half measures lead to less probability of being in the right place at all. In addition you recude the chance of opening with any Hold Objectives. Things like the Key are fun but ultimately irrelevant compaired to something like Shardcaller which ensures any backfield Objective Holder will hold any Objective eventually.

Hold Objectives
So in short what Holds boil down to is an all or nothing situation. In addition to that skipping on them can actually hurt your deck significantly more as making it better. 
For Sepulchral Guard specifically:
- March of the Dead means you want to make a multitude of Moves, this can be punished in the second and third phase but not nearly as much in the first. Sometimes I see discussions occuring that either Sepulchral Guard are too slow or opponents can make all their charge targets. Fact remains that if you play things like Sidestep, Shardfall and Distraction they can't do that. Plus having several opponents charge into you is still easier to deal with as having to charge multiple opponents. Which Spulchral Guard have much more trouble with as reaching Objectives.
- Claim The City is about a 50/50 chance of being good, as before if you do start with 3 Objectives on your side and play Hold Objectives this any end phase card is very potent to score. Note that it's not in the third end phase, just any. One can consider Sprint with any deck too.
- Undead Swarm is easier to score if your opponent comes to you, which he has to the moment you play Hold Objectives.
The thing is, amongst all Sepulchral Guard exclusive Objectives there is nothing that creates an anti-synergy with the Hold Objective cards.

Movement
Sometimes I read that people find the Sepulchral Guard too slow for Hold Objectives... Now if this was true (which it isn't), it would also mean that cannot proceed with any aggressive strategy based on that theory as in almost all cases the oppossing fighters are able to stay away 3 hexes to ensure most Sepulchral Guard can't swing on them. Luckily though playing the Holds again forces your opponent towards you. As before you only need one Action to move two Petitioners to two Objectives to virtually score 2 Glory. The moment they stick there cards like Determined Defender, Plant a Flag, Supremacy, Flawless Strategy and many many more become very easy to score. Even cards like Reaper are more potent.

Alternatives that reward aggressive play like Swift Advance, Crushing Force, Twilight Conqueror, Scent of Victory, Devide and Conquer or Blooded are actually way more situational as any Hold Objective card and in reality are less likely to be scored at the end of Phase 1 as any Hold Objective card. If you do start with two of the Hold Objective cards in your opening hand, feel free to discard that hand and draw a new one.
In any case though, playing Hold Objectives does not mean you need to play defensively at all.

Upgrades
Last but not least, the reason as to why I prefer all Hold Objectives are Upgrades. There are starting hands that are heavy on the Upgrades. Unlike your Glory and thus Objective deck, we have no other way to generate the Power card effects even while discarded. In many cases playing Hold Objectives means you can keep a hand of 3 Upgrades and 2 Ploy or even 4 Upgrades and 1 Ploy. 

The prime reason for me to still defend Hold Objectives at this point for practically any deck is because it forces your opponent to engage, which leads to situations where one party has to Charge less or not at all. Regardless of strategy chosen there are also options to be on an Objective and attack someone. However we turn it though the aggressor will have less choice in this matter as the Charging model cannot be activated again while any other model can. Why does this matter? Well the Warden can continue to move everybody as long as they didn't move (thus Charge) or he didn't Charge. 

In addition speed doesn't have to be an issue for Sepulchral Guard. The non-Universal fixers remain:
- Terryfying Screams. Good to draw someone in, better to draw someone in who's holding an objective.
- Swift Evasion. Good to get someone out of combat, better to move towards an objective. 
- Restless Dead. Good to get anyone pretty much back, better if you have held multiple objectives in your own zone so your opponent is drawn in and now has to deal with this model, which doesn't have to charge.
- Danse Macabre, great for any strategy after phase 1.
- Spectral Form, anyone moving through anyone is good, it's even better if you have a reason to move, which Objectives give you.
- Ancient Comander, more movement the better.
- Fightning Speed, same story. 

But the thing I think is most important is to ask, if you don't play Hold 1-5 and you go the complete different route it becomes significantly more difficult to keep the Warden alive and make use of his Action that makes him so unique and incredible for Holds. The Warband has 4 'fighters' which actually do something and the Warden is one of them. In addition wanting to play the aggressor with Movement 2 is fine by Bloodreaver, Stormcast and Orruk standards as it means they do not have to be swarmed from the getgo.

As always anyone should play whatever they want  The Hold Objectives however are the easiest and most realistic way of using Petitioners and still have them do something. The moment the Harvester and Champion are lost due to extensive aggressive play the Warband has a lot of trouble comming back, unless your in the lead of Glory which in many cases is very easy to do with Hold 1-5, Supremacy and Determined Defender.

[Aginor]

I will get my Sepulchural Guard today and play them tonight. Excited!! 

[Killax]

12 hours ago, Changer said:

So I’ve just tried to come up with a deck that doesn’t focus on objectives. At the moment I don’t have the Orruk deck, and I don’t seem to be able to come up with anything I’m happy with. Instead I’m going to try this tomorrow.

Hold Objective 1 - 5

Tactical Sumpremacy 1 - 2 & 3 - 4

Denial

Supremacy

Battle Without End

Determined Defender

Skills Unforgotten

—————

Shardfall

Grasping Hands

The Necromancer Commands

Bone Shrapnel

Ceaseless Attacks 

Terrifying Scream

Danse Macabre

Sidestep

Restless Dead

Clawing Hands

—————

The Dazzling Key

Frightening Speed

Fatal Strike

Grim Cleave

Great Strength

Deathly Charge

Helpful Whispers

Ancient Commander

Soultrap

Total Offence

 

I’ve got a friendly tournament tomorrow night, 3 or 4 one off games (not best of 3), so we’ll see how it goes.  I’ll report back.

I like the deck, do have some comments:

Objective
- Tactical Supremacy might be too difficult to pull of. I do believe running easier +1 Glory Objectives instead might be generally more wishful.
- I personally like More Able Bodies, phase 2 and 3 it isn't hard to score, in many cases it's easier as Tactical Supremacy.
- I like Devide and Conquer for Spulchral Guard a lot too. 
- Superior Tactician is great with Hold Objective 1-5, Supremacy, Determined Defender and many of the 'easy scores'. To me it feels like a winner here too.

Power
- Clawing Hands, I love the card but do think Fortify is better for this deck set up. You have a ton of Objective interaction, it also means you have much better improved defences for the guys on the Objectives. This could be anyone and because of that I do like it here a lot (in Stormcast too).
- Grasping Hands, don't dislike it, do think that Distraction is better, it's essentially another copy of Terryfing Screams/Sidestep and those Power cards are indeed amongst the best in the game. It's almost the same but the advantage here is that you can use it from phase 1 on and if your ahead you solidify that position.

Upgrades
- The Dazzling Key, it's fun but really so Objective specific, I'd consider Shardcaller over it at all times.
- Fatal Strike is very specific for a minor gain, consider Daemonic Weapon over it. It makes one Petitioner an insane combatant for sure. The Prince doesn't dislike it either.
- Grim Cleave, Cleave is great but the Champion has it allready, I'd consider Lethal Lunge over it for sure, frankly I have no idea why Lethal Lunge is not in here. It has Cleave too.

Frankly speaking I think you'll do great with the current deck aswell. The only real critism from me is on the Upgrades. 

 

[tchu]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

The moment the Harvester and Champion are lost due to extensive aggressive play the Warband has a lot of trouble comming back, unless your in the lead of Glory which in many cases is very easy to do with Hold 1-5, Supremacy and Determined Defender.

This was my experience last night against Orruks. We had a choke point with the special objective in the centre and the Orruks just crushed my fighters. I did get them down to just one Orruk, but with only 3 petitioners left and very little glory on my side it was over before the third round even started. Nothing I did mattered at that point. 

I've re-assembled the deck as Holds again and am going to pursue that line for practice, the offensive route did not pan out and I think I want to encourage the enemy coming to me so I can get those sweet sweet supports. 

[Killax]

25 minutes ago, tchu said:

This was my experience last night against Orruks. We had a choke point with the special objective in the centre and the Orruks just crushed my fighters. I did get them down to just one Orruk, but with only 3 petitioners left and very little glory on my side it was over before the third round even started. Nothing I did mattered at that point. 

I've re-assembled the deck as Holds again and am going to pursue that line for practice, the offensive route did not pan out and I think I want to encourage the enemy coming to me so I can get those sweet sweet supports. 

Yeah the Katophrane (or how you write it) Artefact is a massive game changer for sure, Ive only used it for Multiplayer scenarios though as I feel the game gets way too swingy in a regular 1 vs 1 with it. In other words, your so rewarded for being there is skews the regular result most games go for. Still I like it though, wouldn't be suprised if we saw a Ploy in the future who allows it to be placed in the neutral for a phase.

I think that so far the offensive plan so far is only really available for Orruks. I say this because they have 4 fighters, good health (usually can't be one-hit-killed) and likely the best Ploy cards so far seen, in terms of survival, manouvrability and offense. 

For me to really remove the Hold 1 to 5 Objectives we'd need a Universal variant on Biggest An' Da Best, Lightning Strikes, Call of the Waagh, Blood for the Bloodgod!, It Begins, Consecrated Area and/or Undead Swarm. Things that arn't difficult to obtain but need to be done in conjunction with each other to matter.

Frankly speaking though I think those Universal Objectives will come and then I believe you can be as aggressive as Orruks. The Bloodreaver Warband is close to it but too many things are randomly negated with their set up (same for the other Warbands). E.g. There is only Slaughter is out of the players control phase 1, Coward! is out of the players control phase 1, even It Begins is no guarantee for phase 1. Which is where the Hold Objectives really shine, they are guaranteed phase 1 successes. If they arn't you have kept the wrong hand, set up incorrectly, have placed the board incorrectly or decided for an enemy territory Objective placement and that usually isn't a smart move due to being counter-attacked (charge not even always required). 

So what I love about the Sepulchral Guard is that you can simply turn 1 activation in a guaranteed 2 Glory thanks to Objectives and really it doesn't matter all too much wether or not those Petitioners are on the board because the reality is that you won't use the Move action much more than twice per phase anyway if opponents come in. Then if the Warden doesn't have to charge (due to you having Objectives) the tactical flexability of optional Actions remains. It's true that Stormcast can also play the sit and wait game very well thanks to Eternals but what isn't true is that they can keep two on Objectives and still form something of an offense. The Sepulchral Guard can do this.

[Changer]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

I like the deck, do have some comments:

Objective
- Tactical Supremacy might be too difficult to pull of. I do believe running easier +1 Glory Objectives instead might be generally more wishful.
- I personally like More Able Bodies, phase 2 and 3 it isn't hard to score, in many cases it's easier as Tactical Supremacy.
- I like Devide and Conquer for Spulchral Guard a lot too. 
- Superior Tactician is great with Hold Objective 1-5, Supremacy, Determined Defender and many of the 'easy scores'. To me it feels like a winner here too.

Power
- Clawing Hands, I love the card but do think Fortify is better for this deck set up. You have a ton of Objective interaction, it also means you have much better improved defences for the guys on the Objectives. This could be anyone and because of that I do like it here a lot (in Stormcast too).
- Grasping Hands, don't dislike it, do think that Distraction is better, it's essentially another copy of Terryfing Screams/Sidestep and those Power cards are indeed amongst the best in the game. It's almost the same but the advantage here is that you can use it from phase 1 on and if your ahead you solidify that position.

Upgrades
- The Dazzling Key, it's fun but really so Objective specific, I'd consider Shardcaller over it at all times.
- Fatal Strike is very specific for a minor gain, consider Daemonic Weapon over it. It makes one Petitioner an insane combatant for sure. The Prince doesn't dislike it either.
- Grim Cleave, Cleave is great but the Champion has it allready, I'd consider Lethal Lunge over it for sure, frankly I have no idea why Lethal Lunge is not in here. It has Cleave too.

Frankly speaking I think you'll do great with the current deck aswell. The only real critism from me is on the Upgrades. 

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying.  To be honest I'm not sure why I've not got lethal lunge in the deck - but as I've only got this deck in my case at work it'll have to do for now.   As for things such as Daemonic Weapon and Shardcaller - these are both cards I'm looking forward to picking up, but as I mentioned above; I don't currently have the Orruk deck, so I'm building the list with what I have.  I

'm pretty sure I'll pickup the Orruk deck over the next week or so.  I'm enjoying the painting aspect of the hobby immensely, and I'm treating Shadespire as more of a 'don't have too much unpainted plastic' kind of game.  I've just got the Reavers to paint and that'll be three painted warbands and then I'll purchase the Orruks.  Might not be the best way to go (and to be honest if I go to anything properly competitive I'll get the best cards I can), but I'm actually liking being restricted a little - it'll give me a chance to use some cards that will definitely be  replaced in the future (and quite possibly never see the light of day again!)

I've just nipped to my local GW in my lunch hour and had a one off game with this deck vs his Orruks.  He had some bad dice rolls, and I spent the first phase without any ploys, but I was able to rack up Hold Objectives 1, 2, 3 and 5, Tactical Supremacy 3&4 (fortunately these were in my hand in the first phase and both were in my deployment), along with a few others.  I was able to finish with a 9 - 6 victory.  I think with a few more games this evening I'll be able to find some flaws in the deck and hopefully adjust accordingly.

[Killax]

@Changer You'll do fine with the Lethal Lunge switch, it's really incredible and while nobody should be a huge fan of character restricted Upgrades I do believe this is one who's worthy of an auto inclusion. This usually applies to leaders.

I think that as long as you play your Hold Objective game well the deck rewards the Warband extremely well. Aggressive strategies work but there is no option or reason to completely commit to that. Same applies to the Bloodreavers. While I like them offensively if you play it well there is always one Bloodreaver doing nothing and opening with a move to place him onto an Objective (just like the Warden covers two) is always a good choice. Where charging in simply isn't.

Cheers,
 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

14 hours ago, zabbraxas said:

I go as sepulcral as my main band and got a little trouble to win game at first, but now i got a nice win rate.

What i think was a mistake when i start:

-Playing Objective card. If your opponent have 3 objective and put them on the other side of the board(especialy if the board is short side to short side) you  are to slow. I try a semi objective deck with objective 2 and 4 The Dazzling and Shadowed Key (2 glory pointif you got objective 2/4 at the end of third phase) and Shardcaller who allow me too swap objective. It can work well but it need a little to much luck if you have no chance on objective or if you don't go Shardcaller in your first hand it's game over.

-Overprotecting the Warden. Of course lose the Warden early prevent you to do a lot of sepulcral objective card, like march of the dead or Battle without end, but he is one of your most powerfull warrior. In first round he is most of the time safe if he is not overexposed he can easily take ONE blow. Lethal Lunge is a must have for a sepulcral deck, against Bloodreavers or Sepulcral it one shot all warrior except leader,  against orc or liberator you can make a "wall"of skeleton and safely hit with your 3dmg cleave warden from behind.

-Resurect Everything. Resurect is one of the most cheated powerfull ability of the sepulcral but it can also give "free" glory point to your opponent. I go with resurect only key warrior like the champion against ork and stormcast and the reaper against everyone. Some tips for the resurect mecanic: Restless Dead work to trigger Battle whitout end so you can use only one action to play that card. Against Bloodreavers If you resurect all your fighter before end phase he cannot play "it begins" you can also prevent his fighter to been inspired (it need 3 fighter out of fight and no 3 kill).

I think is my 3 biggest initial mistake, i probably go in a full analysis when i got more game with them

 

I think that resurrect can work perfectly well in an area denial way, unless I'm mixing up  the ruling. Basically, as long as you have a guy dead, you could use him to flank enemy models that are next to the starting symbols, thus either blocking his way out or granting a support for a later activation. It should be used mainly on the named fighters.

[Changer]

So I had 4 games tonight against khorne (draw), sepulchral Guard (win x 2) and the liberators (loss). I will say that i won the two games basically because i got to place the objectives. I think my deck is probably a little too reliant on them to be honest, although the last game against the liberators (he won all 4) was a loss because I didn’t have a counter to distraction.

I will say this. (Over) committing on objects as sepulchral guard should result in a 50% win ratio, assuming you place the objectives 50% of the time. Already opponents are becoming savvy to how slow we are, and placing their 3 objectives accordingly. I’m going to try and tinker with my objectives using the card  so have - take out the supremacy cards but keep 1-5, and see how I do.

[Killax]

Yeah I think the slowness can be a bit of an overstatement, while its true based on Warband cards alone, Frightning Speed remains great and so does Danse Macabre. In addition I think Sprint remains a great consideration too. For both assistance and Objective reasons. The synergy there is that you Move two models anyway so one can go with Speed 4 or 6 for an Action, depending on wether or not they are inspired. Especially if you include Supremacy Sprint is a nice combo.

Other than that, Stormcast remain an incredibly potent Warband in all cases, despite them being 3 fighters. They have the second best Ploys (just after Orruks), good Upgrades and fantastic exclusive Objectives. At the same time though obtaining multiple Cleave fighters for Sepulchral Guard isnt incredibly difficult to do. A phase 2 Lethal Lunge or Great Strengtg on Champion allows for heavy damage quick. Its the only Warband where must put pressure on. Keep in mind to thake them out one at the time. I made the mistake several times to damage two with Bloodreavers and it just costs too much fighters. Go in with Cleave bait with The Harvester or The Warden.

[Changer]

Ok, still no Orruk deck so I’ll have to make do with what I’ve got. Here’s an updated deck.

Hold Objective 1 - 5

Denial

Supremacy

Battle Without End

Determined Defender

Skills Unforgotten

March of the Dead

Crushing Force

—————

Shardfall

The Necromancer Commands

Bone Shrapnel

Ceaseless Attacks 

Terrifying Scream

Danse Macabre

Sidestep

Restless Dead

Confusion

Shattering Terrain

—————

The Dazzling Key

Frightening Speed

Fatal Strike

Great Strength

Deathly Charge

Helpful Whispers

Ancient Commander

Soultrap

Great Speed

Lethal Lunge

 

The Dazzling Key is still there because I actually managed to score with it 3 out of the 4 games last night. It’s definitely situational, but if I’m sitting on the objective anyway I might as well try to get more points for it.

I’ve added a little extra speed, and the cleave on lethal lunge should also come in handy; along with the 3 damage. I actually found I only inspired the warden in 1 of my games last night. It’s not always the best thing to bring a fighter back using an activation that could be better used getting into position or just straight up stabbing someone.

I didn’t find the supremacy cards were extremely situational, whereas in any turn it’s actually easy to move every model.

[Killax]

Still looks very solid to me. I also think that a Key is fine. I do think any Upgrade can be defended in the context of them mattering more at the end of phase 1 anyway. For example I like Shardcaller, its not always good but it also doesnt need to be, thats the beauty of Upgrades. To me they function as hand filtration for more Ploys.

As a sidenote, I do like Distraction a lot and hope you will switch it for Confusion when you have it. I feel Distraction is ever so slighty better because it stops your opponent Objective plan and gives the Warden the targets he want savely.

[tchu]

Hey @Killax did you ever get around to typing up your Holds list? Curious to what you're running and what level of success you're having? 

I'm still getting used to the different board placements, and with some teething issues regarding objective placements (both me and my opponents). I do think Holds and relying on the Champion and Harvester is my go-to plan. 

[Killax]

19 hours ago, tchu said:

Hey @Killax did you ever get around to typing up your Holds list? Curious to what you're running and what level of success you're having? 

I'm still getting used to the different board placements, and with some teething issues regarding objective placements (both me and my opponents). I do think Holds and relying on the Champion and Harvester is my go-to plan. 

I do have them at home, I'm eager just to thake some pictures of the deck as the write ups are really a lot to cover (every time  ).

So far I've been doing great with Stormcast and Orruks, with Sepulchral Guard I'm not enough games in to give very in depth advice but the older Core Set 'Hold em' tactic does seem to work well. A large part of the Sepulchral Guard's plan is to bench on Hold Objectives doing their biggest parts. So far the Sepulchral Guard have been an effective counter to Stormcast and Orruks and slightly less effective against Bloodreavers. In large part because Bloodreavers do have the speed to press through the moment you can't choke the board. Which plays a big part in Sepulchral Guard succes aswell as you can simply bog things down quickly.

Objective (12) list I'm working with now is:
- Hold 1 to 5
- Ploymaster
- Battle Without End
- More Able Bodies
- Skills Unforgotten
- Conquest
- Denial
- Contained

Ploys (11/10) are more experimental:
- Bone Shrapnel
- Ceaseless Attacks
- Danse Macabre
- Restless Dead
- Terrifying Screams
- The Necromancer Commands
- Shardfall
- Distraction
- Mighty Swing
- Shattering Terrain
- Time Trap

The prime reason as to why this currently are 11 cards has to do with the 11th Upgrade. In addition nothing feels like it's a bad card at any given moment. Especially considering what Shardfall, Distraction and Terrifying Screams can do to secure your Denial or Contained. Time Trap is certainly a give and forget card but it should work out well for several reasons. Don't forget to basically push your opponents out of the zone and otherwise still go for it and score Conquest early. Discarding poor Objectives hands from the start is never a bad plan.

Upgrades (11/10) again experimental:
- Ancient Commander
- Deadly Charge
- Fatal Strike
- Fightning Speed
- Grim Cleave
- Lethal Lunge
- Total Offence
- Daemonic Weapon
- Soultrap
- Shardcaller
- Shadeglass Sword

The real reason why there are 11 Upgrades here is because Upgrades stick to dead fighters. Meaning that when you return them things can get quite bonkers. What is important to keep in mind here, as mentioned before, is that both the Harvester and Champion are truely the only fighters you want to return. However because we do so the Upgrades for them are also essential to your succes. The Upgrades largely go round and round. Grime Cleave is situational but very important against Orruks and Stormcast. 

Hope this helps a bit, feel free to tinker with it. I can't say the deck doesn't serve me well but every player has their own type of play. What's the most essential part for The Sepulchral Guard in general is to have a great opening hand for Objectives. More as any Warband I feel they need a good income phase 1. Mulliganning your hand is not really an issue and most certainly doesn't mean the Objective deck sucks, it just means that if you cannot score your initial hand enough it needs to go.

Cheers,

 

[Killax]

Had the first few games with the Sepulchral Guard and allready am in love with them. The decklist was eventually altered to even play heavier on the Objectives and it works extremely well. Tactical Hold 1-2 and 3-4 can keep you in the game phase 1 and that's really what the Warband is all about in my opinion. The prime reason why Hold Objectives work so extremely well with the Warband despite it's Movement 2 (usually) is that you will create starting hands that allow you to score. While it's certainly true that phase 1 is very rough on the Sepulchral Guard phase 2 and 3 can be dominant.

What I do think is important to note here is the roles of the fighters. This context matters because the set up of Sepulchral Guard isn't hard but you will have to aware of it and not afraid first and foremost.

- The Warden ideally is always set up mid-mid-board. While it isn't difficult to put him in a corner and hide, he's still a very potent fighter with his Range 2 weapon and 3 damage. This increases even more once Lethal Lunge or Great Stength is put on him. He's the key to victory for your opponent aswell but mid-mid still sets him save in phase 1 which is what matters.
- The Champion has the key role versus Orruks and Stormcast, having Cleave un-inspired is just amazing against them and in those games he will be a key figure to. Because he gets better Inspired don't be afraid to put him on the front lines. He'll die again, that's the whole purpose.
- The Harvester has the key role versus the mirror and Bloodreavers, swining with 3 dice is all he needs to be extremely effective against any Horde type Warband. In addition he's not a slouch elsewhere either, Grim Cleave makes him relevant against any Warband. Forefront is no issue for him.
- The Prince is the bait, as simple as that. He can be in the worst position of all because knockback compaired to cleave and multi-target swings is not even remotely important for the defence game the deck plays with the Holds. So far I am still convinced this is the easiest thus often best way to play the Warband altogether.
- The Petitoners are there for the Hold Objective cards, Supremacy etc. In addition you will also want to remember that any left nearing the Neutral will do an amazing job just moving out in the enemy zone to deny Denial and Containment. The latter is key because those two cards are very important to practically all other Warbands.  In terms of placement, keep them back where the Objectives are. They don't really contribute much in combat. 

The are just a few ways to lose if you play Objective heavy, and a few things to remember.
1. Don't lose the Warden in phase 1 or early 2. It's simple but also easy to over commit him. Optimize his range 2, use Confusion, Illusonary Fighter, Screams or Distraction to keep him out of harms way. At least up until phase 3.
2. Don't give up because your running behind on Glory mid phase 1. You should recover from phase 1 with Objective token orientated Objective cards. It's not only essential for them, it means that the returned Champion, Harvester or both become even more lethal and will strike back killing.
3. Keep in mind that the Champion and Harvester are your hammer and sickle. In almost all games the return of other models is too irrelevant unless it's possible to use them for objective purposes.

Lastly, I would avoid playing on any long board if possible, the movement required to cover it is very difficult to find for the Sepulchral Guard and in addition to that there is less 'mid-back space' where the Warden can comfortably hide and strike. Basically the key to succes is to control and dominate in your territory, which is what Illusory Fighter, returns and pushes do extremely well. Additionally Shardcaller is an ace card for such decks and even adding a Key should not be out of the question if your comfortable with one or two phase 3 relevant cards.

Lastly have fun with the Warband, it's extremely flexible and fun to play with. My Garrek Reavers most certainly envy un-inspired Cleave and Swipes   Cheers!

[Sleboda]

 They are my favorite warband by far. I've lost only once with them and have really enjoyed the objective-based style.

You are exactly right that it can look like you are in trouble early, but when you suddenly score three objectives at once and your hand fills up again with another two or three cards that compliment the things you've already done in round 1, it's super sweet. 

They are very rewarding to use.