Let's chat: Ironskull's Boyz

[Sleboda]

Don't forget, there is also a new ploy to heal everything as well, so shardgale for instainspire, then heal all the damage to boot.

Yeah, balance has been tossed out the window. Shame, really, as the game was really good for a little while.

[Hesa_First]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

Don't forget, there is also a new ploy to heal everything as well, so shardgale for instainspire, then heal all the damage to boot.

Yeah, balance has been tossed out the window. Shame, really, as the game was really good for a little while.

I'm afraid I have to agree. The first four warbands where a blast to play. Some hard matchups for sure, but not at all ridiculously imbalanced. The game overall was extremely focused on good positioning and planning.

From that point on there was a huge shift towards high HP straight forward warbands. Earthquake made objective play and therefore a great deal of warbands almost unplayable. Orruks and SCE where top Tier, with only Skaven on par, who took the Speed of Reavers, the rez of the Guard and made both even better. Even the Leader is a more powerful combination of the Warden and Garrek! Skaven simply replaced those two warbands at a competative level. Fyreslayers were flawed from the getgo.

Add to that the inflation of reactions. Less and less planning required, indirectly punished low HP fighters and rewarded offensive positioning with models who could just tank one or two blows.

The new expansions seem to put another nail in the coffin for low HP fighters (flat damage ploys that affect all fighters, a LOT of ranged attacks, etc). Additionally the new Khorne band appears to be insanely strong and even negate a tactical element from the game: drive backs. Ohh yes, an even harder to counter Earthquake-equivalent on top of that.

[Biboune]

Yea RIP balance, some ploys are too powerful and/or should not have been universal. Shadegale only for Bloodreavers? may have sound cool. Earthquake only for the Chosen Axes?

The new Bands also look stronger than the first ones. They just look like part of "Wave 2: things are getting serious" and not made to fight against the others. ("Garrek! Garreck, Hey boss! Are you sure?  There is 4 of them: 3 madmen is plate armors and a demoniac lizard-dog ? We are 5 half naked barbarian and you don't even put your bloody boots on this morning!)

Once the new expansion release we should open a thread to discuss what has gone (will probably go) wrong with this game.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Biboune

[Garrtok]

Yes.

I play Shadespire on Tournaments and really love it. But eg earthquake one huge mistake. Would be a fair card for dwarfs, but as a neutral card  - come on. Really ****** objectiveplay up and now they release a second earthquake. Objective play is dead and so my tournament skaven.

 

And i agree, the new Fiends look like Garreks Reavers in strong.

[Biboune]

Hi, I just got that Kunnin' but Brutal works very well with Quick Thinker...

Shattering Terrain can also trigger My Turn...

Move, get 1 wound, Inspired, push 1 hex, Attack. You reached a enemy 4 hexes away, and you did not charge. If you charge:you can only reach a enemy 3 hexes away but you can attack 2 times.

Well, may be Orruks will be able to challenge the Bloodwarriors. I am just sad I don't see anything like that for the weaker bands.

Edit: a little list of ploys :

1. Twinsting the Knife
2. Trap
3. shattering terrain
4. shardgale
5. my turn
6. leading by example
7. quick thinker
8. Gorkamorka's Blessing
9. Kunnin' but Brutal
10. ready for action

Lot of way to deal +1 damage( too much), free attack or move actions 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Biboune

[Anthony225]

Im new to the game and haven't played a game yet, however I've read the rules and seen videos on YouTube. I honestly don't get the hate for earthquake against objective based decks/warbands. From what I've seen non-objective based decks will take earthquake along with 1-2 other push cards while in my mind an objective based deck, such as dwarves, should take a lot more movement cards, including earthquake. So logically speaking the objective based player should assume everyone they play against will have earthquake and play accordingly. Dwarves for example hit like trucks so all they really need are push and movement cards. You place multiple dwarves on objectives, they earthquake, you play 1-2 push/move cards and you get 1-2 guys inspired and now they have no earthquake. 

The question I have is about the new ploy that deals a damage to everyone. I know it's a great cards and as it is now great for Orruks. But Orruks don't get super great when they inspire right? the only Gurzak gains is rerolling an attack dice.  I'm not at all saying its not great or that the combo is lackluster, it's really good, especially first turn. I'm merely asking if it really is "broken" or if it just seems broken on paper. If all the Orruks take 1 damage all of a sudden there are many more things that can one shot them such as Saek.

[bobal]

earthquake is usually played on the last activation, when you just have to wait for your opponent to pass, then you earthquake him away from the 3 objectives he took all turn to grab.

It's a generic card, and it's too easy to mess up an objective based deck, as it does not prevent you to go along with your bashing around plan, and just ruins 1 complet turn for the opponent.

hate that card, but I play skaven and the guard, go figure ^^

[Goblin-King]

1 hour ago, bobal said:

hate that card, but I play skaven and the guard, go figure ^^

This may sound crazy but I tend to pay more attention to players complaining about poor balance about something used against them, than players claiming balance is fine with their latest nuke. Everyone likes to wield a powerful weapon, I get it. But I suspect the players thinking Earthquake v.2 is perfectly fine don't play objectives themselves.

But hey! Let's make some new cards. What would you orc players think if these were real?

Divine heal: All damage dealt this entire phase is negated. Fighters that died in this phase are returned to an empty starting hex in their own territory.
Sticky Weapons: All fighters have all available attacks changed to 1 Range 1 Sword 1 Damage for the rest of this phase. This effect is removed after they make an attack action.

These cards are the combat version of having an entire turn wasted like earthquake does to objectives
 

[Sleboda]

Goblin King is right. The problem with Earthquake and other simple to use, massive effect cards is just how simple they make it to undo a lot of careful planning.

The game is 3 turns. Every single one of your 12 activations is precious. If you just spent a third of them cleverly moving onto objectives, likely using a number of your ploys along the way, and your opponent, with zero activations of his own spent, can just toss a single card out to undo your whole turn, it stinks.

Really, it's half your useful activations if you are Chosen Axes, since inspiring at the end of the third turn is meaningless.

Yes, you can spend several of your own ploys trying to get back into objectives, but then you are once again exhausting several resources to counter just one.

Also, the Earthquake player only needs to get lucky one time to have the card in his hand. To counter it with multiple push ploys you need to get lucky multiple times in the draw.

Really, it's the hard work vs. easy button aspect that stinks.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Sleboda

[bobal]

worthless warriors :

 every fighter that is taken out of action during the turn brings no glory.

I wish earthquake was random direction for the push, to at least mess up the orruk's player plan, instead of just shifting everybody one hex in the same direction...

Joke apart, we just have to change our playstyle and be more fighsty. doubt it will be successfull, but we won't be bothered by those cards ^^

 

[Biboune]

I would say that earthquake is not a good card because it is almost used to do one thing, you counter it by playing another earthquake (1/10 ploys of both you and your opponent wasted)  and you don't need to think at all to use it. A card like Distraction works well to counter a Supremacy, it doesn't spoil all the Hold Objective and it can be used to avoid or help a charge. Even using blocked hexes, or using

Great Concussion will no be counter by playing another great Concussion. Weak bands can use it to push away their foe 2 hexes from them to deny early combats, and it is not really fun either.

In fact, I think all "all fighters" card should be avoid.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Biboune

[Anthony225]

Still don't get the earthquake hate. If I'm  an objective based warband/deck I'm bringing earthquake also. So if they knock my guys off objectives, I knock them back on. Also, you can plan to have 1-2 guys on objectives if you have a single push ploy. It's probably not a good plan to put all of your fighters on objectives because if they do earthquake you're screwed. They may think twice if you e only put 1-2 fighters on objectives. 

[Sleboda]

5 hours ago, Anthony225 said:

Still don't get the earthquake hate. If I'm  an objective based warband/deck I'm bringing earthquake also. So if they knock my guys off objectives, I knock them back on. Also, you can plan to have 1-2 guys on objectives if you have a single push ploy. It's probably not a good plan to put all of your fighters on objectives because if they do earthquake you're screwed. They may think twice if you e only put 1-2 fighters on objectives. 

Read my past above. I explained the problem pretty clearly.

[Anthony225]

4 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Read my past above. I explained the problem pretty clearly.

I understand what you are saying. yes if you spend all your effort with multiple push/movement ploys to work hard to place as many models on objectives as possible and then your opponent undoes everything with 1 card (earthquake) it would truly stink. I'm saying if you know that is all possible, couldn't you just save 1-2 push/movement cards and refrain from trying to place as many fighters as possible on objectives? if you work on placing all your fighters on objectives your basically feeding your opponents earthquake at least 1/4 of the time. I would personally hold back push cards and only try to inspire 1-2 fighters in the hopes that at the end of the phase I would have 1-2 inspired fighters (dwarves) or claimed objectives.

[Reggi]

I don't feel that earthquake is so strong. It's rare for aggressive deck to play any. Yes, that card can give you a win by itself, but it's dead card against other aggressive deck and even against objective deck it can be countered by other earthquake or other pushes. It's just card that in some situation is best card in game, when in other it do near to nothing, thats why its waste of slot, when you have that many great ploys and you can't have them all. In my local meta only objective decks play earthquake. I will not play a card that is great in 20% situations and in 80% is worst card in my deck. That card will be good for aggressive decks only when objective decks will be most common decks and it will be strongest strategy.

Look at AdeptiCon 2018 Grand Clash (22 march 2018). Decks from TOP 10 that include Earthquake:

Orruks - 3rd place - aggresive deck
Steelheart's - 4th place - objective deck
Steelheart's  - 5th place -  objective deck
Steelheart's  - 8th place - aggressive deck
Sepulchral Guard - 9th place - objective deck

And tournament won Orruks with aggressive deck and second was aggressive Khorne Berserkers (with two Hold Objective: 1 and 4, but other cards were aggro focused). Both without Earthquake.

Like i wrote above, Earthquake is bad card for aggressive deck. It would be great sideboard card, but we don't have sideboards in shadespire.

New earthquake looks better, cuz you can get something more from it then from Earthquake in most situation (you can increase distance beetwen fighters and things like that). We will see, but i would not panic yet...

Another info: in TOP 10 there were 6 aggressive decks and 4 objective decks. So among 6 aggressive decks, only 2 of them played earthquake. I would not say that this card is end for objective decks (mostly cuz aggro decks don't play it)

 

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Reggi

[Sleboda]

I think the aggressive players are missing out if they are not taking Earthquake.  Aside from the Easy Button that it is vs Objective decks, it is also additional mass movement getting your forces closer to the enemy all at once.

Pick a direction of movement where the enemy is 'up against the wall' and your whole warband gets a hex close to the fight.

It's universally useful and flexible, like Shardfall.  Heck combo those two to control who cannot move from Earthquake.

 

[Goblin-King]

But still overshadowed by Concussion. That ploy can even bring your fighters closer (or further apart) even without anybody being up against the walls. 
As nothing prevents fighters being pushed in different directions, you can easily bring some closer (red) or further apart (yellow).

[Reggi]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

Pick a direction of movement where the enemy is 'up against the wall' and your whole warband gets a hex close to the fight.

And how offen that happen? You need blocked hex or end of territory to do that. So i should bring earthquake cuz maybe one in five games i will get one hex closer to enemy fighter? Why take earthquake if without it you can win against objective deck too? Sure, its easier with it, but its waste a slot in many matches. Not worth.

New earthquake is much better for aggro, but i still doubt that it will be auto-include.

[Sleboda]

5 hours ago, Goblin-King said:

But still overshadowed by Concussion. That ploy can even bring your fighters closer (or further apart) even without anybody being up against the walls. 
 

True. That card is disturbing.

[Tom]

Hi can anyone give me any advice on a good starter agro deck for the orcs please?

just getting started with shadespire after a friend has badgered me to get into the game. Have zero clue what I’m doing lol. 

After a starting point that I can tweak as I go along an get more Idea what I’m doing.

 

thanks in advance

[Malakree]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

Hi can anyone give me any advice on a good starter agro deck for the orcs please?

just getting started with shadespire after a friend has badgered me to get into the game. Have zero clue what I’m doing lol. 

After a starting point that I can tweak as I go along an get more Idea what I’m doing.

 

thanks in advance

Ploywise you want things which let you make extra actions or reaction extra damage after attacks. Trap and ready for action are perfect examples.

Shardgale is probably the best card in the game for you, combine with tainted vitality to get a free warband wide inspire. Inspiring your fighters makes them way more powerful, demonic weapon and inspiration strikes are both glorious.

For upgrades you want survivability and damage. The key damage number is 4 as this lets you one hit almost any fighter in the game.

Objective wise you're after a combination of easy to score early, to get the upgrades rolling, and big scores late, to give you the win. Swift advance and conquest exemplify this dichotomy.

I don't know what sets you have so want to avoid giving an exact list but those principles will give you a working aggressive ironskullz deck.

[Tom]

Awesome thank you.

i have all the cards so that’s not a problem. Or maybe that is the problem an is why I can’t choose lol. Confused myself. 

thanks again. 

[glitch]

I think Shardgale is a trap choice for Orcs - their Inspiration does not improve their defensive stats at all, and you've now put all your models in much easier one-hit range. I'd much rather take Inspiration Strikes and use it on whichever of Gurzag/Bonekutta isn't inspired.

[Goblin-King]

2 hours ago, glitch said:

I think Shardgale is a trap choice for Orcs - their Inspiration does not improve their defensive stats at all, and you've now put all your models in much easier one-hit range. I'd much rather take Inspiration Strikes and use it on whichever of Gurzag/Bonekutta isn't inspired.

This! Nobody except the dwarf leader being inspired can naturally 1-shot 4 wounds.
But lots of dudes can hit you for 3 wounds naturally - and even more dudes can one-shot with an upgrade or ploy.

The main thing Gurzag has going for him is his insane amount of life. Nothing can 1-shot him without several ploys or upgrades.

Sure getting all the boyz inspired at once is nice, but it definitely comes at a significant cost. It's not an obvious choice imo.

[Anthony225]

On 5/15/2018 at 10:13 AM, Goblin-King said:

This! Nobody except the dwarf leader being inspired can naturally 1-shot 4 wounds.
But lots of dudes can hit you for 3 wounds naturally - and even more dudes can one-shot with an upgrade or ploy.

The main thing Gurzag has going for him is his insane amount of life. Nothing can 1-shot him without several ploys or upgrades.

Sure getting all the boyz inspired at once is nice, but it definitely comes at a significant cost. It's not an obvious choice imo.

I thought this about 5 seconds after seeing shardgale spoiled. In my opinion i'd rather make my opponent do the work inspiring my fighters, for free none the less. Where I think shardgale really shines is with farstriders. They want to ping you to death and a ploy that pings everyone for 1 is gold. you shardgale and then one shot 2 wound fighters. So I think shardgale works best in a warband that doesnt want to engage but still wants to deal damage.