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BobbyB

The Future - And Past - of the AoS Aesthetic

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Acknowledged.

And, by the way, it's possible GW will release minis for other chambers of the stormhosts and in this matter especially interesting look Sacrosanct and Auxiliary chambers. SC have plenty of room to expand.

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I won't be quoting the exact point because it's embedded into a larger chunk, but I am not reading too much 40k into AoS @stratigo, I just don't think Sigmar is a swell dude from the stuff I've read. I don't think submitting your troops to endless reincarnations that slowly erode their humanity is swell at all. As has been mentioned before, 'Order' does not equal 'Good' necessarily, it's just the opposite of Chaos. 

AoS is not grimdark, but that isn't to say it can't have shades of grey inbetween the dichotomies between Chaos and Order, in fact i'd argue that's exactly what gives the world its texture, and its fairly apparent to me at least that it's there.

Edited by DynamicCalories
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From Gates of Azyr onwards all of the  novels have shown that Stormcast are individuals with their own histories/desires/faults they go into them in quite a lot of detail.  Warbeast has one meet his decendants (and it can only be descendants as the its been a long time since the Stormcast were mortals) which is deliberately planned by his superiors for the reaction it will cause. 

Instead of spending time making up faults with the narrative I suggest some go and read some of it because it’s painfully obvious they haven’t.  Though the ever increasing demands for minute details make me question the motives of some, I suspect whatever level of detail GW provides something else is going to be demanded. We didn’t need to know the sexual habits Dwarfs in WFB, AoS doesn’t need them either. 

Edited by Ollie Grimwood
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2 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

Certainly many other factions need their books, at least, and would be good to finally see foot ogres (Gutbusters) and goblins of any kind, like elves too. And more exploration of different realms, especially of Death and Hysh with Ulgu, which are not covered yet completely. I think GW will slowly give books to all of this, but what can they plan apart from that like the Shadespire is hard to predict.

See I'm the exact opposite, I don't think.any existing factions 'need' their books, and think it would be a shame to see them revisited when there's so much new ground to potentially be covered. I'm so excited to see new factions and possibly even new races, I'm sure some of them will be expanded from existing factions but I'm hopeful it'll be more things like grot sky pirates than 'here's your free people book'.  Also I'm hopeful that where the carry overs from WHFB do exist and are referred to in the books it'll be more of a star wars-esque melting pot than like the warhammer world where all the races inhabited their own distinct environments

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I agree what concerns new races and factions, but since the old ones are given their entries in their GA books, the start is ready and so I expect them too, like they have done with some already, making them no less exciting. After all, they need to sell the minis still :) speaking of examples, spider goblins, for instance, are already featured quite heavily, it' s a shame they have no books as of yet of their own. But sky grot pirates I'd like too, of course.

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40 minutes ago, BobbyB said:

See I'm the exact opposite, I don't think.any existing factions 'need' their books, and think it would be a shame to see them revisited when there's so much new ground to potentially be covered. I'm so excited to see new factions and possibly even new races, I'm sure some of them will be expanded from existing factions but I'm hopeful it'll be more things like grot sky pirates than 'here's your free people book'.  Also I'm hopeful that where the carry overs from WHFB do exist and are referred to in the books it'll be more of a star wars-esque melting pot than like the warhammer world where all the races inhabited their own distinct environments

That’s an interesting point. They might be go with writing  little about humans beyond the Cities they inhabit, after all we do already know what they are like. I certainly want to hear more about the other factions of AoS. 

Though I would add I really like what they did with Bonesplitterz, Beastclaw and Seraphon (I couldn’t comment on Pestilens though) 

Edited by Ollie Grimwood
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On the topic of Stormcast, giving them actual personalities was the entire driving force of my skirmish force and why I chose to have as many of them as possible have bare heads.  I like to think I did a good job matching pose to face so that each one inspires some thought of who they are beyond existing as a faceless Cyberman among Jango Fett clones.

I actually think the pretty bland nature of the Realms (at least to many onlookers) at the debut of the game was a far bigger hurdle for sales than Stormcast, and it's just now starting to hit it's stride.

Edited by Aegisgrimm
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17 hours ago, stratigo said:

The stormcast are fleshed out POORLY. Their narrative and their nature are at odds. They do not feel like a collection of the realm's greatest heroes. They have no distinctive personalities beyond being stormcast.

What GW did was recreate space marines in a fantasy setting. The problem is that they flubbed the recreation. Space marines are psycho indoctrinated warrior monks. They have that grimdark twist as the brainwashed enforcers of a dysfunctional authoritarian state. Stormcast eternal, on the other hand, are einherjar. The problem is that they act like psycho indoctrinated warrior monks. Without the twist, as AoS is much less dark a setting, even for the age of chaos. Stormcast do not seem like heroes. They seem like templar orders. Their distinctiveness and previous culture, eg the things that got them selected to be stormcast, are subsumed by the culture of their ordos/legions/chapters, and they slot into and function interchangeably from any other storm cast. If they are mighty reforged heroes, let them be heroes, particularly high fantasy heroes. They should have giant personalities. GW is trying to have fantasy space marines, but they didn't recreate the space marines well enough, not that I think you CAN in AoS (nor should you). If Stormcast were just randomly uplifted humans given magical super soldier serum and specially forged weapons, that would be one thing (and be an invitation to explore the cultures that would raise children for this end goal). But they aren't. They were supposed to be heroic BEFORE they were reforged. And we don't get to see that. GW needs to drop the warrior monk ascetic for most stormcast and give us people who's heroism already rings through the ages.

Also, I'd like to know:

If you don't read into the source material I am certain you can't see them as the colletion of the human realm's greatest heroes. They have distinctive personalities beyond being Stormcast. However what you seem to have forgotten to read or refused to read into is how several different armies of Stormcast excist and how based on their battles they have changed from realm to realm. As they are born anew into battle their former lives are important to them but secondary to the survival of that particular realm or secondary to the objective of that specific army.

What GW did is present warriors of order in a high fantasy setting. You do not seem to understand what this currently has brought forward. The battles and lore is created on epic scales, not that of an individual Stormcast, again purposefully. 
Age of Sigmar Stormcast do not seem like Warhammer Fantasy Empire heroes, by large because they do not come solely from that place. The prime reason why they are designed emptionless and unified is because Chaos has thrived of emotions and split armies. The prime reason as to why Chaos is such an hard foe to battle is because rage, lust, sorcery and manners of sloth directly empower the Chaos gods. The reason as to why Stormcast are largely stripped from this is so their power remains with Sigmar. In essence they are more perfect as Space Marines in battling Chaos. Unlike Space Marines these warriors cannot be swayed into following Chaos. It's what devided the Space Marines in the first place.

This results in them having personalities but nothing akin to that as Warhammer Fantasy. If they where what you hope them to be they would fail in battling Chaos like the warriors failed battling Chaos in the Warhammer Fantasy setting. If you are capable of 'turning' you will. 

If you really want to know more, look into the lore. Your working completely with assumptions.

17 hours ago, stratigo said:

their visual appearance is entirely at odds with their backstory. They should, honestly, look more like bretonnian knights than space marines. Heraldry everywhere, family crests, each armor slightly customized. That though, probably comes down to them being the intro faction and you don't want to scare new people away from the hobby with too much detail.

The end of Warhammer fantasy was a mess, and the first glimpse of the new setting was something that looked and acted like space marines. You better believe fantasy fans, and many 40k fans were rolling their eyes so hard they almost popped out. And it didn't help that the game released with... ummm... minimal functionality to play.

The initial sentence shows you are unaware of the Stormcast their task and reason as to why Sigmar created them. This reason is not the same as to why the Emperor created Space Marines. The reason for Stormcast to excist is to unify realms of Order, defend them from Chaos and strike back at Chaos with a vengeance. This is not a ploy to unify human races on terra and continue to thake over the universe for the sake of humanity. This is defending the realms of Order from Chaos, Destruction and Death.

The end of Warhammer Fantasy did exactly what it was set up to do since the 6th edition, first Storm of Chaos. The prime reason as to why Chaos was all powerful is because the winds of magic came from the same place as the core of Chaos did. Magic was Chaos, Chaos was all powerful. In essence there was one nuclear plant in the Old World and the forces of Chaos had control over it. At the end Archaon decided to blow it up to show they where all powerful.

What I hope is that you look into Stormcast. I hope you understand that they are in essence "improved" Space Marines. Set out to reclaim the realms from the grip of mainly Chaos. In that same vein their are unified, unlike Chaos. They are unified and starting without much character because 1. So far only epic stories have been covered for the Stormcast and 2. It would ultimately make them susceptible to the influence of Chaos.
Unlike the Emperor on Terra, Sigmar actually is a god. Unlike the Space Marines, Stormcasts' energy upon death does not go to waste. Unlike 40K, Age of Sigmar is a high fantasy setting of epic proportions where sex, age and lusts don't really matter. What matters is what matters for the game, warfare. Afterall it's a miniatures game, not a novel. The immersion comes from the hobby not solely from books.

I and many more agree that Stormcast with human faces are more likeable and can be easier identified with. Guess what GW has been releasing the last 3 Stormcast releases?
Shadespire-Factions-Showcase2krb.jpg
neave-blacktalon-stormcast.jpg
NewStormcastEternalsMinisENG_Slot2.jpg


The last thing that remains though is that I wish you'd inform yourself as well on Stormcast as you do for 40K's Space Marines. There are large differences between the two which visually arn't that clear. So in order to understand them you'd need to look into it.

Unlike Space Marines, Stormcast were initially solely created to be the extension of Sigmar's power. They are a force of Order to battle first and foremost Chaos but also Destruction and Death if the situation calls for it. 
Space Marines initially where created to unify Terra and conquer the galaxy, the difference is that Space Marines are suseptable to Chaos and initially where only designed to battle Xenos (Destruction). The same type of Death forces do not really appear in 40K. Necrons come close but have no Nagash-like figure leading them.

Edited by Killax
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11 hours ago, BobbyB said:

See I'm the exact opposite, I don't think.any existing factions 'need' their books, and think it would be a shame to see them revisited when there's so much new ground to potentially be covered. I'm so excited to see new factions and possibly even new races, I'm sure some of them will be expanded from existing factions but I'm hopeful it'll be more things like grot sky pirates than 'here's your free people book'.  Also I'm hopeful that where the carry overs from WHFB do exist and are referred to in the books it'll be more of a star wars-esque melting pot than like the warhammer world where all the races inhabited their own distinct environments

I completely understand that. The fact remains though that both as a product and narrative Age of Sigmar is a carry over from Warhammer Fantasy Battles. 

This is something I actually like about Age of Sigmar, GW doesn't act as if it's all brand new. Age of Sigmar is the awnser Order (better put Sigmar) has created for smashing back at the End Times or Age of Chaos (WFB 6th-8th), if you will. In addition even the reflections of Sigmar beating on Ork and Undead have remained. Which is exactly what Sigmar's lore was about in Warhammer Fantasy.

The funny thing is, and Age of Sigmar proves this is that Sigmar never should have left Warhammer Fantasy. The moment this extremely potent force left the forces of Order the forces of Order collaps as not having the same omnipotent force behind them as the forces of Chaos do. We have Chaos Gods and Sigmar is essentially the Order God. This keeps the balance interesting within model design and narrative design. 

Edited by Killax
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The Space Marines in 40k have been in the game for a long time. I don't know their history, but I'm pretty sure at first all the chapters used the same model. As the game grew, however, some of the chapters differentiated and got unique units. The Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Grey Knights are now practically armies in their own right. Now we don't really need more Stormcast units, but we all know that we are going to get them anyway. I think it would be cool if, like Space Marines, some of the Stormhosts got their own unique units. That would make the chapters distinctive in the game, rather than just being painting schemes. I know there are super-battlions for the most well known ones, but those are now way too expensive to get played very often.

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31 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

The Space Marines in 40k have been in the game for a long time. I don't know their history, but I'm pretty sure at first all the chapters used the same model. As the game grew, however, some of the chapters differentiated and got unique units. The Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Grey Knights are now practically armies in their own right. Now we don't really need more Stormcast units, but we all know that we are going to get them anyway. I think it would be cool if, like Space Marines, some of the Stormhosts got their own unique units. That would make the chapters distinctive in the game, rather than just being painting schemes. I know there are super-battlions for the most well known ones, but those are now way too expensive to get played very often.

Well it's actually not too different from what's happening now. What players seem to not realize is that at first there where no Legions or Chapters. Chapters where a by product of the Horus Heresy, before that the Legions where the armies and the Legions were split into chapters for the Loyalists because otherwise the influence of Chaos could be too powerful as the might of a Legion is tenfold of that of a Chapter. However Legions too where a product of Games Workshop when they saw players where converting and colouring the initial Space Marines in all kinds of colours.

What you are correct about is that players made up their own Legions and Games Workshop followed. Even Chaos Space Marines initially where just a conversion of making "metal"/"death metal" Space Marines. Something Games Workshop played into because it was very popular. We see something akin happening to bare-faced Stormcast, players converted some, Games Workshop follows...

Now with Age of Sigmar you could say, Games Workshop played into the popularity of Chaos Warriors with Stormcast. They saw that massive warriors clad in full plate armour with helmet on where very popular. In addition where Empire wasn't as popular of a faction the Human Allegiance in World of Warcraft was, a difference in visual design could very well be the reason. New players like visually strong models, Stormcast look the part because they are larger as Chaos Warriors and statwise stronger per model. They indeed are heroes. In fact they come much closer to what Space Marines on paper should be then they are in the game. In other words, it makes little to no sence that Space Marines have 1 wound, like a random conscript from an Imperial Guard army. The Primaris Space Marines statwise are what Space Marines should have been.

I believe Games Workshop will indeed continue to expand on the Stormcasts with chapters and unique designs. In order for them to do this they will still have to continue to produce more Stormcast. Again what many seem to forget is that Stormcasts are still a new line and do not rely on any former WFB kit. This means a lot of new releases are required to match up to armies with WFB kits.

Edited by Killax
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Lastly and this only applies for Stormcasts' future I think we will see more identity added to Stormcast, like they did/do for Space Marines. So far Games Workshop has allready designed 3 kits to specifically add some character to the unique Warrior Chambers of Stormcasts. I deem it very likely more will be added and those should likely also come with a set of different bare heads, both made and female I feel.

The thing is though that if too many where upset by this type of characterisation or if this set is simply not popular I think Games Workshop might wait with more sets like them. Despite that the lore is full of names that could end up being fleshed out with kits like these.
 

 

99070218005_CelestialWarbringerUpgrades099070218010_StormcastTempestUpgrades01.j99070218006_KnightsExcelsiorUpgrades01.j

 

Now a lot of factions will likely look more different as just the change of heraldy and shields. For the Stormcast specifically though it continues to make more sence to not go as extreme as Blood Angels or Space Wolves are. What is even more interesting to consider is that this actually makes more sence as the prime reason why Blood Angles and Space Wolves look different and have mutations comes directly from a minor taint of Chaos or taint to battle Chaos.
- Blood Angels recieved the curse of the Black Rage after a fight Sanguinius himself had against Ka'Badha, the influence of that battle shaped the geneseed itself and thus shows the taint of Chaos still tries to break apart the norms and order of Blood Angles. They effectively become blood-lust Vampires.
- Space Wolves can turn into Wulven in order to battle Chaos but cannot step back into a regular form anymore. The influence of Chaos is so drastic that here too mutations in the gene-seed continue to appear. The taint of Chaos breaks apart the norms and order of Space Wolves. They effectively become Werewolves. 
- Dark Angels keep secrets for even their own chapter members about the Fallen. The Fallen are still capters of Dark Angels who's faith in the Emperor has fallen. While Fallen do not always allign themselves to any Chaos god in particular their mere excistance is kept hidden because they cannot be viewed as allies of the followers of the Emperor anymore either.

So will we see Stormcast specifically alter to the taint of Chaos? No, I think this will not happen. 

The reason for this is two-fold, first the ranges of Stormcast and Slaves to Darkness/Blades of Khorne/Desciples of Tzeentch etc. do not follow the same practical kit. The Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine kits are still competible.  In addition the battle between faithful and heretic plays a much smaller role in Age of Sigmar. It's more pure and thus more simple, a battle between Order (all, mixed human, aelf, seraphon etc) and Chaos (all, mixed human, daemon and skaven). 
Secondary the reason why I doubt it will occur has to do with the creation process of Stormcast and the advantage they obtain in being virtually immortal. So far their energy and spirit is part of Sigmar, there is a form of free will but what is always remembered is that the excistance of Chaos, Destruction and Death is why the Stormcast cannot fall and musn't fall. If this would happen the same End Times could occur to Age of Sigmar.

Perhaps in 10 orso years we will see Games Workshop re-tool Age of Sigmar and flesh out characters so much that another massive clash will occur that will shift the tides again. It could be needed if the product line fails to sell (again). 

Edited by Killax
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I think Nagash tainting the memebers of the Stormcast is more likely than Chaos, mention has already been made of his displeasure that their souls have been denied him due to the reforging. 

The reasoning behind GW marketing Stormcast is based on Space Marines. However their  concept in the narrative is more similar  to Chaos Daemons (as are Seraphon) in that they are immortal  followers of a god and if their bodies are destroyed they are sent back to their Realm to to be rebuilt. It’s very much that Sigmar has see what Chaos has used against him and then created his own.   A never ending supply of warriors. 

Edited by Ollie Grimwood
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In regards to Nagash, what I think will/should happen is that he will create a suit of armour that keeps the soul and energy of that warrior to Nagash. In essence I'm still hoping Games Workshop will create a warrior akin to World of Warcraft's Death Knights, bound to Nagash's bidding.

What this would lead to is not to have Stormcast turn to Death but to give Death a warrior who's soul cannot be obtained by Sigmar. It would also provide the warrior with necromantic powers (like Death Knights) so there is a win for such a bargain, especially if the warrior in question is in such a dire situation that he sees no other hope but to embrace Death itself (quite litterly). In essence they'd be selling their soul to the "grim reaper" early to obtain a form of immortality. 

Otherwise I agree, the way Warriors are fleshed out in Age of Sigmar really makes them all an extention of their God, like Daemons from Chaos Gods. Where the Space Marines are a product of humanity, following the Emperor who is most specifically not a god, despite the Imperial Guard woreshipping as such. In addition the reason as to why some Horus went heretical in the first place is because Horus recieved visions from Chaos/Tzeentch who showed him being woreshipped as a God and this in turn set the whole Horus Heresy in motion. 

In any case, the Age of Sigmar story line is more pure than that, simple aswell but absolutely not worse. Offcourse 40K is fleshed out way more, then again Age of Sigmar is only 3-4 years old. I believe we shouldn't compair the work of a 3+ year old to that of a 25 +year old :) 

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I started wargaming when 40K was in it’s infancy, shortly after Rogue Trader was released and AoS at year 2 is a whole lot more detailed and fleshed our than 40K was at that point.  I’d very much agree expecting AoS to come into being with 30 years worth of detail is both a bit unreasonable and probably very impractical. 

Of course though the World that Was and all it encompassed is AoS Background as well, it wasn’t erased it all still happened as far as the narrative is concerned. The Age of Legends stuff about Sigmar, Nagash, Malkieth (or is that Malerion ?) and others is just as relevant now as it was when written.

Edited by Ollie Grimwood
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The Lord-Relictors are basically necromancers. There's that whole thing about them constantly having Nagash whispering to them - it was already creepy and kind of scary, and then I went and read the end times Return of Nagash novel, which heavily implies that every undead creature and necromancer throughout history was being manipulated and controlled by Nagash even though he was dead at the time, which sheds a new light on the battle the Relicors are constantly fighting. And then there's the Plague Garden novel. As the plight of the Steel Souls becomes more and more dire, Morbious draws on more and more magic that the Relictors have kept secret and avoided using, until he's literally summoning the spirits of fallen Stormcast into battle. Actually, as Stormcast are basically a hybrid of paladins and einherjar, you could even make the argument that the Lord Relictors are already death knights in the vein of Warcraft - heavily armoured warriors who use necromancy but are defying the god of death by assisting the good guys.

As the Relictors hold so much power over the spirits of their chamber, all it really takes is for one of them to fail at resisting Nagash, and you could easily end up with Death Stormcast.

EDIT: As for Chaos Stormcast - just compare the Liberator and Chaos Warrior warscrolls. Chaos Liberators would just be duplicating something Chaos already has, and Chaos Warriors are pretty iconic and their designs hold up really well against the newer stuff.

Edited by GammaMage
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42 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

 And then there's the Plague Garden novel. As the plight of the Steel Souls becomes more and more dire, Morbious draws on more and more magic that the Relictors have kept secret and avoided using, until he's literally summoning the spirits of fallen Stormcast into battle.

I'm interested, what is the context associated with these spirits (I haven't read the last two or three books, Plague Garden included)? Aren't Stormcast spirits shot upwards in Azyr to be reforged? Aren't they spending their time being hammered by the six smiths before being re-forged again?

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Most of Plague Garden takes place in Nurgle's Garden, which is part of the Realm of Chaos, and not a Mortal Realm. Stormcast who die there stay dead, but Lord-Relictors can take their spirits and store them temporarily inside themselves, and then release them once they return to one of the Mortal Realms. It does take a severe toll on them based on how many spirits and for how long they are contained for. But it also turns out that, if necessary, Lord-Relictors can do a lot more with said spirits than just contain them.

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49 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

As the Relictors hold so much power over the spirits of their chamber, all it really takes is for one of them to fail at resisting Nagash, and you could easily end up with Death Stormcast.

EDIT: As for Chaos Stormcast - just compare the Liberator and Chaos Warrior warscrolls. Chaos Liberators would just be duplicating something Chaos already has, and Chaos Warriors are pretty iconic and their designs hold up really well against the newer stuff.

How I see it Nagash will create his own, I think that if Games Workshop wanted to make the Stormcast as open to coversions as Space Marines are they would have made several kits compatible with each other. However without doub the narrative could cover Relictors being taken over by Nagash himself aswell. 

What is very likely to occur in 2018 is that we will see Nagash move into the battle more, supplemented by his upcomming book, followed by a Deathrattle Battletome somewhere later...

In any case though I like the fact that AoS' lore continues to unfold and isn't stuck in 41.999. The same is happening in 40K but Im quite sure Age of Sigmar can speed up and down as much as the creators like to, which is another advantage of high fantasy filled with epic battles.

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2 minutes ago, Killax said:

In any case though I like the fact that AoS' lore continues to unfold and isn't stuck in 41.999. The same is happening in 40K but Im quite sure Age of Sigmar can speed up and down as much as the creators like to, which is another advantage of high fantasy filled with epic battles.

Agreed, in fact the realmgate wars took many years in the story. 

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For those who don't know, the Firestorm book describes the Realmgate Wars having ended decades ago. So we have jumped forwards in time significantly.

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Which is logical, it ended in a kind of a stalemate and all the sides need time to regroup. I hope the next spiral of the war will take place in Hysh and Ulgu.

And concerning Nagash and all the stuff I do hope we won't get any undead SC, they must stay unique and Nagash already has morghasts, so all the new stuff must be more creative and interesting than the dull conversion of SC.

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2 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

Which is logical, it ended in a kind of a stalemate and all the sides need time to regroup. I hope the next spiral of the war will take place in Hysh and Ulgu.

And concerning Nagash and all the stuff I do hope we won't get any undead SC, they must stay unique and Nagash already has morghasts, so all the new stuff must be more creative and interesting than the dull conversion of SC.

Agreed. I am glad they are not going that route considering shadespire and the new model coming out 2018. Let's be real for a moment if they did that considering how long death players have been waiting I bet you people are not going to be happy. 

Edited by shinros

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Exactly. Nagash is way more creative and able to recruit much more interesting warriors than simply copying enemy units because they have 2 wounds.

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I've been reading along with this thread a bit because the topic is very fun, looking a bit back while speculating about the future, but the tone was a bit to much 'my truth is the only truth'. Happy to see that it's turning around. 

So for what it's worth, looking back I think GW shot themselves in the foot a bit with how they handled the change from WHFB to AoS. I think they did do an amazing job, I even support the choice to leave out points on release, but they didn't establish the story line enough. And even as I type I know they did offer a lot of content on a whole range of places but.... I'm not really the type of guy to seek out the Black library books when I'm not already invested in the setting. So while I read 2/3 of the End Time books and a Gotrek&Felix novel I saw no reason to read the AoS novels. 

Might not seem like a big issue but with the release of the free warscrolls it left me in the dark about the fluff... Bit of background, I played 4 armies over several editions by the time GW ended warhammer and as a result became invested enough to actively seek out more details and fluff. But with the free warscrolls, there was no need to buy army books (also didn't play anything with a released book). So I lost a major source of background info right there. Then they started releasing the handbooks and expansions which is amazing! But compared to the way they structured the Warhammer releases it's much more to the point and with less fluffy edges. Looking at the albion or lustria summer expansions, there is so more focus on the backstory there than in the Skirmish and path to glory expansions. Hell, i think there might even be more in those individual summer campaigns than in the Destruction handbook they released with the start of AoS. 

Now here's my point, looking back in the discussion in this thread I see three main arguments. 1. There is not enough backstory, 2. there is enough backstory and you can find it here and here, 3. the backstory that is there is not cool. Well 3 is personal flavour so i'm going to leave that to the side, although I have some issues with narrative choices as well. 

Argument 1 and 2 are the different sides of the same coin. I do believe that there is a vast amount of backstory released over the last 3 years, but most of it is released in such a manner that I have to be the one spending money and actively seeking it out to consume it. If you did so, you have a major advantage on me in narrative sense as the bits I have consumed, haven't motivated me enough to make that effort. 

A practical example is the narrative side of the silver tower/hammerhall. It's very cool that it offers that extra depth but it's not my type of game, so i'm not buying it for the fluff. And it's the same with the novels, the only thing that I found interesting enough to put on my to read list is city of secrets (thanks to the positive reviews on TGA) and the eight lamentations, just because it features a dwarf, elf and human battling together for a god I can remember based on old fluff. 

So back to the first paragraph, I do think it's a shame GW haven't used the narrative side more to get me into the world of AoS and for me they have dropped the ball a bit there. I'm still into AoS mind you, but because of the great streamlined rules and the quality of the models. Hoping a new release or on of those two novels will bring the place to life for me. 

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