Killax Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 In regards to Stormcasts and some who dislike them I can get both aspects really. I think one of the things Stormcasts is suffering from since their initial conception is the same-face-syndrome most of their models have. For sure Games Workshop now has added design with more visually human aspects but I really wish there was a rough 50/50 human aspect in Stormcasts. They are heroes of the past but all character is ripped away from them because they look so virtually identical to each other. For sure the armour and backpacks mix up their look when you do inspect them but as humans we are drawn to the face for a characteristic and if that face looks like an empty helmet practicaly all character is lost. Compair that with the Warriors of Chaos and you see they, by comparison, ooze with character. They look more human while they are less human Luckily though I feel GW has realized this aswell and as a result we do see more and more human looking Stormcast following, like he Hunters. What I hope is that this will continue into a demi-human which Stormcasts eseentially can be. They are an elite force allready and if the creators really had a good look at Space Marines they'd also see that what makes them so cool is their human side, bloodline, legion or chapter. If we think of a cool Space Wolf they most certainly do not look the same as a Blood Angel. Within Stormcasts range pretty much everything looks exactly the same, the more recent weapon and shield upgrades make a difference but in the end what matters more is the human face we'd like to see. I think that super-gods waging infinite war in infinite realms is actually great, this is because it essentially represents the player and the possible places he can go to play this game. A miniature wargame works if it revolves around war. It is a war-game. If the world is full of political discussion the game becomes a political discussion (and not a game at all). Funny enough this is exactly what is going on with 9th Age on the other side of the spectrum. They didn't want a world that was forged in war, now they don't have a war game. I am not surpised. You get what you create. A calm political world leads to a calm political game (design). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiky Norman Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, Kyriakin said: [...] Apparently, we have to pretend to love everything all of the time. There is no need to jump on that imaginary cross and nail yourself to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyriakin Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said: There is no need to jump on that imaginary cross and nail yourself to it. Earlier in the thread, I read this, which seemed pretty accusatory to me... Quote AoS needs new not the old. I’d hope that GW will listen to the view of the people who actually like, play and buy AoS rather than the whiners many of whom I suspect hadn’t bought or played an WFB miniature for many years before The Warhammer Word died. Again, I don't see the issue with new technology and know-how making the "old" better. I mean, 8th edition Wood Elves look better than 3rd Edition Wood Elves, due to improvements in the process. However, both are Wood Elves. And the so-called "new"is mostly just dialling a single "old" WHFB theme to 11 anyway (e.g. slayers, dwarf flying machines, treemen, black orcs, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Totally, the advantage a universe grands to a world is that specialized forces in worlds can be the extreme in a universe. E.g. despite being dwarfs Kharadron Overlords and Fyreslayers dont have to look the same because they dont come from the same place. The Old World didnt allow for that, much room was allready taken, from the getgo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiky Norman Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, Kyriakin said: Earlier in the thread, I read this... Again, I don't see the issue with new technology and know-how making the "old" better. I mean, 8th edition Wood Elves look better than 3rd Edition Wood Elves, due to improvements in the process. However, both are Wood Elves. You wrote: Quote Apparently, we have to pretend to love everything all of the time. Which is just a flippant off-handed comment, that is untrue, and unrelated to the rest of your comments. I pointed it out because there is no need to go there, if all you wanted was to make the point that perhaps GW could both focus on developing AoS while giving a nod to the old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Killax said: Totally, the advantage a universe grands to a world is that specialized forces in worlds can be the extreme in a universe. E.g. despite being dwarfs Kharadron Overlords and Fyreslayers dont have to look the same because they dont come from the same place. The Old World didnt allow for that, much room was allready taken, from the getgo. The Kharadron literally came out of nowhere, suddenly there were skyships descending from the heavens, and we disocvered there entire cities hidden up amongst the clouds, full of steampunk duradin. That couldn't have happened in the old world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, GammaMage said: The Kharadron literally came out of nowhere, suddenly there were skyships descending from the heavens, and we disocvered there entire cities hidden up amongst the clouds, full of steampunk duradin. That couldn't have happened in the old world. Exactly and I think this is a great advantage to keep a game interesting. The moment you know the full in and outs of a game, what excitement would be left? If WFB would have continued we could have seen Cathay and perhaps two other armies, at that moment the game would have been finished. Sure one could continue and explore all the character facets of each army but it was clear through WFB sales that the interest in Historical-Fantasy games had shifted. Since 6th WFB really went deep into that direction and ultimately I think it killed the game. Too much logic needed to be applied for Fantasy and those two do not mix well. All the while the sculpts where getting restricted in terms of dynamic poses because blocks of infantry on 25mm bases really don't allow for too much difference. In addition Lizardmen/Seraphon fighting Ogre Kingdoms/Beastclaw Raiders in the WFB narrative sence was practically impossible. That really isn't good. One of the reasons I believe we also went this higher, epic fantasy route is because Warriors of Chaos and Chaos Daemons followed that patron in WFB allready and always continued to sell well. In many ways most Factions/Armies are inspired by them in the sence that they are now split up, have their own objectives and thus visually do not have to look alike. Character really sells games and a universe allows for unlimited ammounts of characters. Ive said it before but Age of Sigmar has room for Warhammer Fantasy like worlds, where Warhammer Fantasies Old World didn't have the place for Age of Sigmar's universe. This is because epic fantasy can include locations that are akin to historical fantasy but the other way around is almost impossible to do, by large because the other way around means your breaking all the rules youve set to yourself before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Dave Fraser said: For many GHB 2016 was what kicked AoS back into the realms of a playable game with points. For me all it did was take SCGT points and remove the absolute flexibility to balance that the community control allowed. What it also did that I utterly dislike (but I understand why GW did this) was to enforce an army structure (1-6 leaders, 3+ battleline, max 4 behemoths) this added absolutely nothing to the game other than restricting player choice and access to funny/cool armies. Very interesting, I've had similar thoughts. AOS is my first table top war gaming experience. I started prior to the GHB, and was using all the various battalions from the campaign books, re-creating battles from the lore, putting together armies for a battle plan like the ones you described (seemingly powerful but hindered in ways). I think losing that flexibility goes against the high fantasy setting AOS started out as. Sure, there are "3 ways to play" but realistically trying to find people who are open to more than matched play is difficult. I would love to see all the battalions they've made get points so they are playable again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 It's been said a few times in the past, but I'd die for a compendium type of book that documents the terrain, rivers, oceans, mountain ranges, creatures, life, mysteries, history etc of one of the realms. It doesn't need to and shouldn't be written in a way to close off anything new coming there or give all the answers and a full map of where everybody is, but just to make the realms feel more alive, populated and unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, polarbear said: It's been said a few times in the past, but I'd die for a compendium type of book that documents the terrain, rivers, oceans, mountain ranges, creatures, life, mysteries, history etc of one of the realms. It doesn't need to and shouldn't be written in a way to close off anything new coming there or give all the answers and a full map of where everybody is, but just to make the realms feel more alive, populated and unique. Yeah the maps is a huge thing for me. I love studying them and understanding the world. I spent a good proportion of a transatlantic flight trying to figure out where firestorm is based and where the various towns are. Gave up. They are in different realms and everything seems to have multiple alternative names. I think the squid town with the dark elfs is my favourite as it has the wraith fleet going on nearby and might have cool nature stuff around it. Needs fleshing out though. (Ideally without stormcast making everything dull and salesy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Sheriff said: Yeah the maps is a huge thing for me. I love studying them and understanding the world. I spent a good proportion of a transatlantic flight trying to figure out where firestorm is based and where the various towns are. Gave up. They are in different realms and everything seems to have multiple alternative names. I think the squid town with the dark elfs is my favourite as it has the wraith fleet going on nearby and might have cool nature stuff around it. Needs fleshing out though. (Ideally without stormcast making everything dull and salesy). Currently I think the newest stormcast book has the best maps currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 We already have a "world map" of ghyran and because of how the realms work GW can easily expand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JontyGoesGaming Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 GW have released art books in the past, but I'd love to see something that actually reproduces these at a good size to pore over. The images from Firestorm were some of the best they've produced recently and I've often wondered why GW haven't invested more time in developing concept art that explores the landscape that their miniatures are fighting in. Lots of GW art in the past has really been images of the miniatures, which does make sense but they're so front and centre that the background and environment they're fighting in is really just an afterthought, when actually it's a genuine opportunity to make the IP that much more unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 The best maps so far are the maps of those territories in Chamon where the narrative was, they are simply amazing and nothing says more than they that AoS is a high fantasy. The feel of the Realm of Metal is conveyed perfectly. Also you have maps in all the Realmgate wars campaign books, some of them also very inspiring like the Land of the Chained Sun in Aqshy, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 All maps so far seem to concepty and lacking scale in terms of distance and town size. They only show a few cities and nothing else. I basically want a map like the old world. Still no idea where goblins actually live or raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, Sheriff said: All maps so far seem to concepty and lacking scale in terms of distance and town size. They only show a few cities and nothing else. I basically want a map like the old world. Still no idea where goblins actually live or raid. What would you do with a map of exactly that though? Used to have a ton of Old World maps and stuff, even a detailed Mordheim one. Gave them all away though as it was eating dust after a peak. I do love some artwork but its all minis for me and I like we have artistic freedom now. This reflects to any display board being relevant instead of a replica. I also like historical dioramas but those arnt game pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Sheriff said: All maps so far seem to concepty and lacking scale in terms of distance and town size. They only show a few cities and nothing else. I basically want a map like the old world. The show lots of things actually, and I am happy they are no the old maps because then you will have nowhere to go and expand. You will never get your old world map which is a good thing - it is another completely universe after all and must be regarded as such, not a dull pseudo historicals we always had plenty of. 1 hour ago, Sheriff said: Still no idea where goblins actually live or raid. If you read books you would have known. First read the goblins entry in the GA Destruction book, as a start. All nations basically live in all the realms save the Chaos one, which would be obvious, and many of them have examples of their states and such stuff. It's a manyfolded universe with lots of places so that GW has always place to expand it upon and players could place their own creations anywhere without contradicting the existing fluff, so you have no limits in this. As for the goblins, moonclan ones live usually under the mountains, so choose the realm, create it there and let them live as you think they should. Forest ones live anywhere, in the Everchosen battletome Archaon battles a great empire of the spider goblins living deep underground - a good read actually. In the Godbeasts campaign book there is a forest Arachnia where a tribe of spider goblins lives. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOMUS Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 @Menkeroth I think what Sherrif and others are alluding to, is the need for a solid frame of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 If so, there is no such need really, because there is no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Actually, most maps look like this - an ideal variant for high fantasy, you can wish nothing more than that. But sadly GW listens to all of their customers (or those pretending to be) and we have, as a result, some full scale but in the essence very dull and uninspiring maps like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Aye, one of my favorites! Especially if you know the chained sun is in fact the Solar Drake, one of the godbeasts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 aye, spanning across two Realms through the gates. Quite an inventive move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I hope we will know this because Europe and Asia even combines will be quite small in size, and there must be ever place to expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyB Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 Agh those smaller maps are so cool and evocative, they get me so excited about AoS. Would love to see an art book that collected them together with some of the best images. They remind me of this map of the realm of chaos which I always loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JontyGoesGaming Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Again I guess it’s a taste thing, it’s good that GW is providing both types. The early maps reminded me a lot of the old Thundercats maps. Now thats either a good or bad thing depending on what you’re sort of ‘feel’ you’re after, but I have to say it’s not really my thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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