The Future - And Past - of the AoS Aesthetic

[stratigo]

23 hours ago, Killax said:

It's fantastic how you two parties don't read each others posts.

First problem presented: "Stormcast are not fleshed out well". Yet they are.
Second problem presented: "The issue is that Stormcast are fleshed out everywhere". 

As before, something has to be a main story. Space Marines are the Matt Damon of 40K. Chaos Warriors where the Matt Damon of WFB.
Feel free to write complaints to GW about it. 

 

no no.

The stormcast are fleshed out POORLY. Their narrative and their nature are at odds. They do not feel like a collection of the realm's greatest heroes. They have no distinctive personalities beyond being stormcast. What GW did was recreate space marines in a fantasy setting. The problem is that they flubbed the recreation. Space marines are psycho indoctrinated warrior monks. They have that grimdark twist as the brainwashed enforcers of a dysfunctional authoritarian state. Stormcast eternal, on the other hand, are einherjar. The problem is that they act like psycho indoctrinated warrior monks. Without the twist, as AoS is much less dark a setting, even for the age of chaos. Stormcast do not seem like heroes. They seem like templar orders. Their distinctiveness and previous culture, eg the things that got them selected to be stormcast, are subsumed by the culture of their ordos/legions/chapters, and they slot into and function interchangeably from any other storm cast. If they are mighty reforged heroes, let them be heroes, particularly high fantasy heroes. They should have giant personalities. GW is trying to have fantasy space marines, but they didn't recreate the space marines well enough, not that I think you CAN in AoS (nor should you). If Stormcast were just randomly uplifted humans given magical super soldier serum and specially forged weapons, that would be one thing (and be an invitation to explore the cultures that would raise children for this end goal). But they aren't. They were supposed to be heroic BEFORE they were reforged. And we don't get to see that. GW needs to drop the warrior monk ascetic for most stormcast and give us people who's heroism already rings through the ages.

 

Also, I'd like to know:

Do stormcast retire?

Can they procreate?

Do they have a sex drive?

If the answer to the above two are yes, are they allowed to start families?

What do they eat?

Are they allowed contact with their family, if they had one, after they are uplifted?

Do you have to worship sigmar?

What if you get tired of fighting?

and many more questions.

23 hours ago, DynamicCalories said:

As I said in that big post earlier, I think the whole faceless nature of the Stormcast is what makes them interesting. It positions Sigmar as very clearly as a force for 'Order' not what might be considered morally 'Good'. His version of Order is skewed towards rigid regimentation, and use of his troops as nothing more than a resource.

Losing their personality is not a desirable outcome, its indoctrination into a dubious war machine. Named Stormcast Heroes are those who have somehow managed to retain their personality through endless reforging - or by not dying - but they're no less allowed to wear personal heraldry than any other, because they've lost that right.

As I also said in my big mega post earlier, it also leaves them totally open for you to make your own lore, because your Stormhost can come in any colour and be from any part of the mortal realms. There are plenty of cases of Stormhosts working to retain their heritage - from beast slayers, to those persecuted by Chaos who swear vengeance. It's very "Ra Ra Kill The Baddies", but it doesn't have to be. Just like the with Space Marines, not all chapters are The Ultramarines. There are potentially endless Stormhosts for you to create your own background from - those who lived alongside the Sylvaneth and so have an affinity for Nature, those who have made deals with the Kharadron because they're from the guard of a mercantile city. The possibilities are as broad as the realms.

 

 

I feel like this is reading too much 40k into AoS. Sigmar isn't the emperor (or guilliman now). He doesn't run an autocracy built on the bodies of billions. His stormcast aren't evil ****** who go about purging (even the dudes in city of secrets went after unambiguously evil people). Sigmar, by all characterization, is a swell guy who is, in AoS a bit more distant than he maybe should be (going by what Grungi says).

21 hours ago, DynamicCalories said:

Small diversion re: that Ironjawz but I am always seeing people say that GW's official paint jobs are bad, as if it's easy to come up with a  colour scheme and style that fulfils the twin pronged fronts of selling the product to people who are brand new to the hobby via  scheme that can be replicated fairly simply, and pleasing long term fans.

The ironjawz yellow is a stroke of narrative genius. They are yellow cause stormcast are gold and since their armor discorporates when they die, the ironjawz feel they need to ape it, since they are dedicated scavengers and a lot of their society is based around and facilitated by the collection and utilization of scavenged metal.

 

Otherwise though I find yellow an ugly color and don't like yellow armies in fantasy OR 40k. It's just such a pain to work with as a color.

21 hours ago, GammaMage said:

I still think that most people only dislike the Stormcast cause they haven't actually read any of the novels about the Hallowed Knights. It's easy to hate on facless suits of armour. But when you see all the stuff that Gardus, Grymn, Morbus and the rest of them are willing to go through to help the sylvaneth (who don't even like them for a major part of the story) then it's hard to keep disliking them. I didn't like Stormcast too until I read the books.

The story failed to interest me as it was mostly, as I said, fantasy bolter ****** and I need some level of prior investment to care about it.

 

21 hours ago, DynamicCalories said:

Small diversion re: that Ironjawz but I am always seeing people say that GW's official paint jobs are bad, as if it's easy to come up with a  colour scheme and style that fulfils the twin pronged fronts of selling the product to people who are brand new to the hobby via  scheme that can be replicated fairly simply, and pleasing long term fans.

Getting fans to try and paint in bright yellow is really mean to those fans. Yellow suuuuuuuuuuuuucks to paint.

 

22 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

Exactly. This isn't an issue of a lack of detail, but more that the details don't appeal to everyone. Specifically, those who tend to lean towards the more historical and/or real world type of fantasy.

I mean, I read about people hunting flying sharks somewhere in one of these threads, lol.

My personal concern is that the aesthetic grounding currently comes from the legacy/dangler factions, such as the Free Peoples, Darkling Covens and Soulblight. If they were all removed tomorrow, we'd be left with some very distinct, technically excellent, but, let's face it, very cartoonish factions. That said, a more rustic paint job can help a lot in this regard (e.g.. avoiding the yellow on the Ironjawz, etc.).

As I have said, I think the stormcast are at odds with themselves and need an extraordinary amount of work to reconcile their backstory and somewhat bland characterization.

[GammaMage]

Keep in mind that Stormcast are probably designed to be easy to paint compared to most of the older Fantasy armies, and even some of newer ones made for AoS. They are big, have lots of flat or uniformly curved surfaces. They are intended to be the entry point, you can pick up the models easily, and the 'demo' pushfit Liberators have been very successful at our painting days. We offer a variety of models, including bloodreavers, spireguard, ghouls, LotR goblins and space marines and more people trying painting out for the first time pick the Liberators.

They may be a little bland-looking, but it's on purpose. And it makes people go 'this painting is a lot easier than I thought it would be!' and that often translates to them picking up a Storm of Sigmar or First Strike box.

[stratigo]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

@Gaz Taylor Well this discussion seems to have a flipside on the other end of the spectrum at the 4chan boards aswell. The thing really is that people hate Stormcast but don't really state any other reason than their visual appearance. To some extend I understand where they come from but the whole thought patron is extremely childish. My unsalted opinion about this is that "people" hate Stormcast because they feel they are directly the reason why Warhammer Fantasy was pushed away. While WFB was pushed away only and solely because of it's sales. Too many seem to forget that GW is a compagny, not just one office in the UK, a set of stores with people who make a living out of selling Warhammer too.
"People" hate Stormcast because they identify the removal of Warhammer Fantasy with the Stormcast.

Thing is, if people want to hate on them the 4chan boards are much better suited for that anyway. There one can speak out all the hate they have stored for it. The prime difference between a platform like 4chan and TGA is that TGA really embraces the hobby, is a Age of Sigmar fan-site so I really don't know what particular individuals think to gain or obtain by speaking out hate for these models.

Most regular Age of Sigmar players can't thake posts like that seriously because the only reason that is given so far about Stormcast hate is "they look stoopid". What looks stupid or not is so much up for debate we might aswell start a discussion on wether blue looks cooler as green...

their visual appearance is entirely at odds with their backstory. They should, honestly, look more like bretonnian knights than space marines. Heraldry everywhere, family crests, each armor slightly customized. That though, probably comes down to them being the intro faction and you don't want to scare new people away from the hobby with too much detail.

 

Also, literally everyone who doesn't play space marines is jaded about space marines. I play space marines and sometimes get jaded about space marines. So a lot of people see fantasy space marines and go "Well, I can play a faction that will be guaranteed to get consistent support like clockwork. Or take a gamble on a faction that GW could decide to stick in a fridge for a decade." I am legitimately concerned that's where Kharadrons might end up.

 

The end of Warhammer fantasy was a mess, and the first glimpse of the new setting was something that looked and acted like space marines. You better believe fantasy fans, and many 40k fans were rolling their eyes so hard they almost popped out. And it didn't help that the game released with... ummm... minimal functionality to play.

 

5 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

Keep in mind that Stormcast are probably designed to be easy to paint compared to most of the older Fantasy armies, and even some of newer ones made for AoS. They are big, have lots of flat or uniformly curved surfaces. They are intended to be the entry point, you can pick up the models easily, and the 'demo' pushfit Liberators have been very successful at our painting days. We offer a variety of models, including bloodreavers, spireguard, ghouls, LotR goblins and space marines and more people trying painting out for the first time pick the Liberators.

They may be a little bland-looking, but it's on purpose. And it makes people go 'this painting is a lot easier than I thought it would be!' and that often translates to them picking up a Storm of Sigmar or First Strike box.

I get it, but you could do something to unify their backstory, visual design, and characterization. Them being great heroes reforged is super sweet, but only if you DO something with that idea. They haven't, and in fact the idea is at odds with pretty much everything else Stormcast.

 

 

 

Also, they're immortal with the only drawback being they lose personality if they die enough, but since their personality is almost immaterial to their function and aesthetic, it is an extremely weak draw bac that makes them feel super mary sue ish. If you are going to have their tragic flaw be their loss of personality, you have to sell them on having personalities we'd regret loosing in the first place.

 

[GammaMage]

8 minutes ago, stratigo said:

 They have no distinctive personalities beyond being stormcast.

This is not true. Lord-Castellant Lorus Grymn is a former hospice worker who really dislikes war, but  finds himself leading the Steel Souls after Garrus is seemingly killed in battle, and struggles to lead his forces on offensive missions when his natural instinct is always to fight defensively. Tornus has a complete character arc that fleshes him out amazingly, but I won't spoil it. There's a Knight-Azyros in Plague Garden who, when he was alive, was a Sigmar religious extremist, and what he does to the Nurgle-worshippers in the book borders on torture in some instances. And there a a slew of others in Plague Garden who are very much people.

[TheWilddog]

2 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

This is not true. Lord-Castellant Lorus Grymn is a former hospice worker who really dislikes war, but  finds himself leading the Steel Souls after Garrus is seemingly killed in battle, and struggles to lead his forces on offensive missions when his natural instinct is always to fight defensively. Tornus has a complete character arc that fleshes him out amazingly, but I won't spoil it. There's a Knight-Azyros in Plague Garden who, when he was alive, was a Sigmar religious extremist, and what he does to the Nurgle-worshippers in the book borders on torture in some instances. And there a a slew of others in Plague Garden who are very much people.

This.  Many of the Stormcast have back stories that have played critical parts in the novels and story lines of the campaign books.  Also, the different chambers have been given quite a bit of favor that ties into the backstory of the various Stormcast.  I feel that when people say that the Stormcast have not been fleshed out they are seeing what they want to see and not what the stories and narratives have offered up. 

[Arkiham]

18 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Also, they're immortal with the only drawback being they lose personality if they die enough, but since their personality is almost immaterial to their function and aesthetic, it is an extremely weak draw back that makes them feel super mary sue ish. If you are going to have their tragic flaw be their loss of personality, you have to sell them on having personalities we'd regret loosing in the first place.

 

thought they only got their souls reforged if they were able to be sent back. they are by all means not immortal 

[Menkeroth]

stratigo comtinues to speak heresies, but it does not surprise me, he seeks not the truth but only arguments for the sake of it because he already believes in his nonsense and won't give it up no matter how wrong he is. SC are fleshed out perfectly, but he does not want to know it, he has not read anything on AoS and will not. 

[chord]

56 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

This.  Many of the Stormcast have back stories that have played critical parts in the novels and story lines of the campaign books.  Also, the different chambers have been given quite a bit of favor that ties into the backstory of the various Stormcast.  I feel that when people say that the Stormcast have not been fleshed out they are seeing what they want to see and not what the stories and narratives have offered up. 

Agreed,  if people don't buy the novels (or even just the campaign books) I don't understand where they get the lore from?

 

[Menkeroth]

I guess they don't get it at all, but have an opinion based solely on their feelings that their wonderful and beautiful world was destroyed by GW. What is really funny is that how they silently disappear in the mist when they were beaten like with the sales. Stratigo, for instance, tried to assure us AoS had a rough start which is not true, the starter set only was sold out immediately, SC and Khorne sets that were produced a bit later, too. And so he wisely is silent on the matter now. A rare case of wisdom. 

[BobbyB]

People have differing opinions, as unhelpful as it is to beat on stormcast, especially when it doesn't seem to be grounded in fact, dumping on those that do isn't going to foster a good atmosphere either.

Would be good to see what people would like to be expanded on (other than 'farmers' and the sexual proclivities of stormcast) and where they hope the future lies for AoS, otherwise I think we may be in danger of going in circles and eventually getting locked

[TheWilddog]

2 minutes ago, BobbyB said:

Would be good to see what people would like to be expanded on (other than 'farmers' and the sexual proclivities of stormcast) and where they hope the future lies for AoS, otherwise I think we may be in danger of going in circles and eventually getting locked

I would like to see the stormhost fluff expanded to really differentiate the various hosts.  I mean we have some general concepts but I would like to see things like what are their key bases, what are these places like, how do they train, what special rituals do they undergo, how do they view and interact with the other Order factions, how do they view the reforging. I love the depth of flavor the 40k Marine chapters have and am looking forward to the stormhosts getting similar treatment.  

[Menkeroth]

Certainly many other factions need their books, at least, and would be good to finally see foot ogres (Gutbusters) and goblins of any kind, like elves too. And more exploration of different realms, especially of Death and Hysh with Ulgu, which are not covered yet completely. I think GW will slowly give books to all of this, but what can they plan apart from that like the Shadespire is hard to predict.

[Gaz Taylor]

58 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

I guess they don't get it at all, but have an opinion based solely on their feelings that their wonderful and beautiful world was destroyed by GW. What is really funny is that how they silently disappear in the mist when they were beaten like with the sales. Stratigo, for instance, tried to assure us AoS had a rough start which is not true, the starter set only was sold out immediately, SC and Khorne sets that were produced a bit later, too. And so he wisely is silent on the matter now. A rare case of wisdom. 

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Please remember the community we want to have here. We all want to enjoy discussing about our hobby and have a good atmosphere here, so that means not poking other members

Cheers

[Menkeroth]

Acknowledged.

And, by the way, it's possible GW will release minis for other chambers of the stormhosts and in this matter especially interesting look Sacrosanct and Auxiliary chambers. SC have plenty of room to expand.

[DynamicCalories]

I won't be quoting the exact point because it's embedded into a larger chunk, but I am not reading too much 40k into AoS @stratigo, I just don't think Sigmar is a swell dude from the stuff I've read. I don't think submitting your troops to endless reincarnations that slowly erode their humanity is swell at all. As has been mentioned before, 'Order' does not equal 'Good' necessarily, it's just the opposite of Chaos. 

AoS is not grimdark, but that isn't to say it can't have shades of grey inbetween the dichotomies between Chaos and Order, in fact i'd argue that's exactly what gives the world its texture, and its fairly apparent to me at least that it's there.

[Ollie Grimwood]

From Gates of Azyr onwards all of the  novels have shown that Stormcast are individuals with their own histories/desires/faults they go into them in quite a lot of detail.  Warbeast has one meet his decendants (and it can only be descendants as the its been a long time since the Stormcast were mortals) which is deliberately planned by his superiors for the reaction it will cause. 

Instead of spending time making up faults with the narrative I suggest some go and read some of it because it’s painfully obvious they haven’t.  Though the ever increasing demands for minute details make me question the motives of some, I suspect whatever level of detail GW provides something else is going to be demanded. We didn’t need to know the sexual habits Dwarfs in WFB, AoS doesn’t need them either. 

[BobbyB]

2 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

Certainly many other factions need their books, at least, and would be good to finally see foot ogres (Gutbusters) and goblins of any kind, like elves too. And more exploration of different realms, especially of Death and Hysh with Ulgu, which are not covered yet completely. I think GW will slowly give books to all of this, but what can they plan apart from that like the Shadespire is hard to predict.

See I'm the exact opposite, I don't think.any existing factions 'need' their books, and think it would be a shame to see them revisited when there's so much new ground to potentially be covered. I'm so excited to see new factions and possibly even new races, I'm sure some of them will be expanded from existing factions but I'm hopeful it'll be more things like grot sky pirates than 'here's your free people book'.  Also I'm hopeful that where the carry overs from WHFB do exist and are referred to in the books it'll be more of a star wars-esque melting pot than like the warhammer world where all the races inhabited their own distinct environments

[Menkeroth]

I agree what concerns new races and factions, but since the old ones are given their entries in their GA books, the start is ready and so I expect them too, like they have done with some already, making them no less exciting. After all, they need to sell the minis still  speaking of examples, spider goblins, for instance, are already featured quite heavily, it' s a shame they have no books as of yet of their own. But sky grot pirates I'd like too, of course.

[Ollie Grimwood]

40 minutes ago, BobbyB said:

See I'm the exact opposite, I don't think.any existing factions 'need' their books, and think it would be a shame to see them revisited when there's so much new ground to potentially be covered. I'm so excited to see new factions and possibly even new races, I'm sure some of them will be expanded from existing factions but I'm hopeful it'll be more things like grot sky pirates than 'here's your free people book'.  Also I'm hopeful that where the carry overs from WHFB do exist and are referred to in the books it'll be more of a star wars-esque melting pot than like the warhammer world where all the races inhabited their own distinct environments

That’s an interesting point. They might be go with writing  little about humans beyond the Cities they inhabit, after all we do already know what they are like. I certainly want to hear more about the other factions of AoS. 

Though I would add I really like what they did with Bonesplitterz, Beastclaw and Seraphon (I couldn’t comment on Pestilens though) 

[Aegisgrimm]

On the topic of Stormcast, giving them actual personalities was the entire driving force of my skirmish force and why I chose to have as many of them as possible have bare heads.  I like to think I did a good job matching pose to face so that each one inspires some thought of who they are beyond existing as a faceless Cyberman among Jango Fett clones.

I actually think the pretty bland nature of the Realms (at least to many onlookers) at the debut of the game was a far bigger hurdle for sales than Stormcast, and it's just now starting to hit it's stride.

[Killax]

17 hours ago, stratigo said:

The stormcast are fleshed out POORLY. Their narrative and their nature are at odds. They do not feel like a collection of the realm's greatest heroes. They have no distinctive personalities beyond being stormcast.

What GW did was recreate space marines in a fantasy setting. The problem is that they flubbed the recreation. Space marines are psycho indoctrinated warrior monks. They have that grimdark twist as the brainwashed enforcers of a dysfunctional authoritarian state. Stormcast eternal, on the other hand, are einherjar. The problem is that they act like psycho indoctrinated warrior monks. Without the twist, as AoS is much less dark a setting, even for the age of chaos. Stormcast do not seem like heroes. They seem like templar orders. Their distinctiveness and previous culture, eg the things that got them selected to be stormcast, are subsumed by the culture of their ordos/legions/chapters, and they slot into and function interchangeably from any other storm cast. If they are mighty reforged heroes, let them be heroes, particularly high fantasy heroes. They should have giant personalities. GW is trying to have fantasy space marines, but they didn't recreate the space marines well enough, not that I think you CAN in AoS (nor should you). If Stormcast were just randomly uplifted humans given magical super soldier serum and specially forged weapons, that would be one thing (and be an invitation to explore the cultures that would raise children for this end goal). But they aren't. They were supposed to be heroic BEFORE they were reforged. And we don't get to see that. GW needs to drop the warrior monk ascetic for most stormcast and give us people who's heroism already rings through the ages.

Also, I'd like to know:

If you don't read into the source material I am certain you can't see them as the colletion of the human realm's greatest heroes. They have distinctive personalities beyond being Stormcast. However what you seem to have forgotten to read or refused to read into is how several different armies of Stormcast excist and how based on their battles they have changed from realm to realm. As they are born anew into battle their former lives are important to them but secondary to the survival of that particular realm or secondary to the objective of that specific army.

What GW did is present warriors of order in a high fantasy setting. You do not seem to understand what this currently has brought forward. The battles and lore is created on epic scales, not that of an individual Stormcast, again purposefully. 
Age of Sigmar Stormcast do not seem like Warhammer Fantasy Empire heroes, by large because they do not come solely from that place. The prime reason why they are designed emptionless and unified is because Chaos has thrived of emotions and split armies. The prime reason as to why Chaos is such an hard foe to battle is because rage, lust, sorcery and manners of sloth directly empower the Chaos gods. The reason as to why Stormcast are largely stripped from this is so their power remains with Sigmar. In essence they are more perfect as Space Marines in battling Chaos. Unlike Space Marines these warriors cannot be swayed into following Chaos. It's what devided the Space Marines in the first place.

This results in them having personalities but nothing akin to that as Warhammer Fantasy. If they where what you hope them to be they would fail in battling Chaos like the warriors failed battling Chaos in the Warhammer Fantasy setting. If you are capable of 'turning' you will. 

If you really want to know more, look into the lore. Your working completely with assumptions.

17 hours ago, stratigo said:

their visual appearance is entirely at odds with their backstory. They should, honestly, look more like bretonnian knights than space marines. Heraldry everywhere, family crests, each armor slightly customized. That though, probably comes down to them being the intro faction and you don't want to scare new people away from the hobby with too much detail.

The end of Warhammer fantasy was a mess, and the first glimpse of the new setting was something that looked and acted like space marines. You better believe fantasy fans, and many 40k fans were rolling their eyes so hard they almost popped out. And it didn't help that the game released with... ummm... minimal functionality to play.

The initial sentence shows you are unaware of the Stormcast their task and reason as to why Sigmar created them. This reason is not the same as to why the Emperor created Space Marines. The reason for Stormcast to excist is to unify realms of Order, defend them from Chaos and strike back at Chaos with a vengeance. This is not a ploy to unify human races on terra and continue to thake over the universe for the sake of humanity. This is defending the realms of Order from Chaos, Destruction and Death.

The end of Warhammer Fantasy did exactly what it was set up to do since the 6th edition, first Storm of Chaos. The prime reason as to why Chaos was all powerful is because the winds of magic came from the same place as the core of Chaos did. Magic was Chaos, Chaos was all powerful. In essence there was one nuclear plant in the Old World and the forces of Chaos had control over it. At the end Archaon decided to blow it up to show they where all powerful.

What I hope is that you look into Stormcast. I hope you understand that they are in essence "improved" Space Marines. Set out to reclaim the realms from the grip of mainly Chaos. In that same vein their are unified, unlike Chaos. They are unified and starting without much character because 1. So far only epic stories have been covered for the Stormcast and 2. It would ultimately make them susceptible to the influence of Chaos.
Unlike the Emperor on Terra, Sigmar actually is a god. Unlike the Space Marines, Stormcasts' energy upon death does not go to waste. Unlike 40K, Age of Sigmar is a high fantasy setting of epic proportions where sex, age and lusts don't really matter. What matters is what matters for the game, warfare. Afterall it's a miniatures game, not a novel. The immersion comes from the hobby not solely from books.

I and many more agree that Stormcast with human faces are more likeable and can be easier identified with. Guess what GW has been releasing the last 3 Stormcast releases?

The last thing that remains though is that I wish you'd inform yourself as well on Stormcast as you do for 40K's Space Marines. There are large differences between the two which visually arn't that clear. So in order to understand them you'd need to look into it.

Unlike Space Marines, Stormcast were initially solely created to be the extension of Sigmar's power. They are a force of Order to battle first and foremost Chaos but also Destruction and Death if the situation calls for it. 
Space Marines initially where created to unify Terra and conquer the galaxy, the difference is that Space Marines are suseptable to Chaos and initially where only designed to battle Xenos (Destruction). The same type of Death forces do not really appear in 40K. Necrons come close but have no Nagash-like figure leading them.

[Killax]

11 hours ago, BobbyB said:

See I'm the exact opposite, I don't think.any existing factions 'need' their books, and think it would be a shame to see them revisited when there's so much new ground to potentially be covered. I'm so excited to see new factions and possibly even new races, I'm sure some of them will be expanded from existing factions but I'm hopeful it'll be more things like grot sky pirates than 'here's your free people book'.  Also I'm hopeful that where the carry overs from WHFB do exist and are referred to in the books it'll be more of a star wars-esque melting pot than like the warhammer world where all the races inhabited their own distinct environments

I completely understand that. The fact remains though that both as a product and narrative Age of Sigmar is a carry over from Warhammer Fantasy Battles. 

This is something I actually like about Age of Sigmar, GW doesn't act as if it's all brand new. Age of Sigmar is the awnser Order (better put Sigmar) has created for smashing back at the End Times or Age of Chaos (WFB 6th-8th), if you will. In addition even the reflections of Sigmar beating on Ork and Undead have remained. Which is exactly what Sigmar's lore was about in Warhammer Fantasy.

The funny thing is, and Age of Sigmar proves this is that Sigmar never should have left Warhammer Fantasy. The moment this extremely potent force left the forces of Order the forces of Order collaps as not having the same omnipotent force behind them as the forces of Chaos do. We have Chaos Gods and Sigmar is essentially the Order God. This keeps the balance interesting within model design and narrative design. 

[GammaMage]

The Space Marines in 40k have been in the game for a long time. I don't know their history, but I'm pretty sure at first all the chapters used the same model. As the game grew, however, some of the chapters differentiated and got unique units. The Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Grey Knights are now practically armies in their own right. Now we don't really need more Stormcast units, but we all know that we are going to get them anyway. I think it would be cool if, like Space Marines, some of the Stormhosts got their own unique units. That would make the chapters distinctive in the game, rather than just being painting schemes. I know there are super-battlions for the most well known ones, but those are now way too expensive to get played very often.

[Killax]

31 minutes ago, GammaMage said:

The Space Marines in 40k have been in the game for a long time. I don't know their history, but I'm pretty sure at first all the chapters used the same model. As the game grew, however, some of the chapters differentiated and got unique units. The Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Grey Knights are now practically armies in their own right. Now we don't really need more Stormcast units, but we all know that we are going to get them anyway. I think it would be cool if, like Space Marines, some of the Stormhosts got their own unique units. That would make the chapters distinctive in the game, rather than just being painting schemes. I know there are super-battlions for the most well known ones, but those are now way too expensive to get played very often.

Well it's actually not too different from what's happening now. What players seem to not realize is that at first there where no Legions or Chapters. Chapters where a by product of the Horus Heresy, before that the Legions where the armies and the Legions were split into chapters for the Loyalists because otherwise the influence of Chaos could be too powerful as the might of a Legion is tenfold of that of a Chapter. However Legions too where a product of Games Workshop when they saw players where converting and colouring the initial Space Marines in all kinds of colours.

What you are correct about is that players made up their own Legions and Games Workshop followed. Even Chaos Space Marines initially where just a conversion of making "metal"/"death metal" Space Marines. Something Games Workshop played into because it was very popular. We see something akin happening to bare-faced Stormcast, players converted some, Games Workshop follows...

Now with Age of Sigmar you could say, Games Workshop played into the popularity of Chaos Warriors with Stormcast. They saw that massive warriors clad in full plate armour with helmet on where very popular. In addition where Empire wasn't as popular of a faction the Human Allegiance in World of Warcraft was, a difference in visual design could very well be the reason. New players like visually strong models, Stormcast look the part because they are larger as Chaos Warriors and statwise stronger per model. They indeed are heroes. In fact they come much closer to what Space Marines on paper should be then they are in the game. In other words, it makes little to no sence that Space Marines have 1 wound, like a random conscript from an Imperial Guard army. The Primaris Space Marines statwise are what Space Marines should have been.

I believe Games Workshop will indeed continue to expand on the Stormcasts with chapters and unique designs. In order for them to do this they will still have to continue to produce more Stormcast. Again what many seem to forget is that Stormcasts are still a new line and do not rely on any former WFB kit. This means a lot of new releases are required to match up to armies with WFB kits.

[Killax]

Lastly and this only applies for Stormcasts' future I think we will see more identity added to Stormcast, like they did/do for Space Marines. So far Games Workshop has allready designed 3 kits to specifically add some character to the unique Warrior Chambers of Stormcasts. I deem it very likely more will be added and those should likely also come with a set of different bare heads, both made and female I feel.

The thing is though that if too many where upset by this type of characterisation or if this set is simply not popular I think Games Workshop might wait with more sets like them. Despite that the lore is full of names that could end up being fleshed out with kits like these.
 

 

 

Now a lot of factions will likely look more different as just the change of heraldy and shields. For the Stormcast specifically though it continues to make more sence to not go as extreme as Blood Angels or Space Wolves are. What is even more interesting to consider is that this actually makes more sence as the prime reason why Blood Angles and Space Wolves look different and have mutations comes directly from a minor taint of Chaos or taint to battle Chaos.
- Blood Angels recieved the curse of the Black Rage after a fight Sanguinius himself had against Ka'Badha, the influence of that battle shaped the geneseed itself and thus shows the taint of Chaos still tries to break apart the norms and order of Blood Angles. They effectively become blood-lust Vampires.
- Space Wolves can turn into Wulven in order to battle Chaos but cannot step back into a regular form anymore. The influence of Chaos is so drastic that here too mutations in the gene-seed continue to appear. The taint of Chaos breaks apart the norms and order of Space Wolves. They effectively become Werewolves. 
- Dark Angels keep secrets for even their own chapter members about the Fallen. The Fallen are still capters of Dark Angels who's faith in the Emperor has fallen. While Fallen do not always allign themselves to any Chaos god in particular their mere excistance is kept hidden because they cannot be viewed as allies of the followers of the Emperor anymore either.

So will we see Stormcast specifically alter to the taint of Chaos? No, I think this will not happen. 

The reason for this is two-fold, first the ranges of Stormcast and Slaves to Darkness/Blades of Khorne/Desciples of Tzeentch etc. do not follow the same practical kit. The Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine kits are still competible.  In addition the battle between faithful and heretic plays a much smaller role in Age of Sigmar. It's more pure and thus more simple, a battle between Order (all, mixed human, aelf, seraphon etc) and Chaos (all, mixed human, daemon and skaven). 
Secondary the reason why I doubt it will occur has to do with the creation process of Stormcast and the advantage they obtain in being virtually immortal. So far their energy and spirit is part of Sigmar, there is a form of free will but what is always remembered is that the excistance of Chaos, Destruction and Death is why the Stormcast cannot fall and musn't fall. If this would happen the same End Times could occur to Age of Sigmar.

Perhaps in 10 orso years we will see Games Workshop re-tool Age of Sigmar and flesh out characters so much that another massive clash will occur that will shift the tides again. It could be needed if the product line fails to sell (again).