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The Future - And Past - of the AoS Aesthetic


BobbyB

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5 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Nope, my gripe is that the whole world's lore is stormcast. If i want to learn about some forest or a town or a realm or whatever, it comes with a mountainous side dish of stormcast stuff I don't give a squig about. "ahhh you want to read about the forest of doom? yes then you need to buy the stormcast novel #11 and read how it is no longer doomed thanks to this wonderful new faction of mat damon puppets." Its like how religous people decide their god is involved with everything on earth. Any good deeds done, and natural phenomenon was only done thanks to their lame god, oh and i must convert to their god and buy books about him. 

I just can't take stormcast seriously BECAUSE they look retarded. It damages the whole brand of the game to have them thrust into our throats in every book and every product. Just swap them for a more likable faction in the books etc and problem solved. 

With all respect to you but that's truely the strangest gripe. The game is called Age of Sigmar, Sigmar's Age, so logically the whole game will revolve more around Sigmar and his forces. In this case his forces happen to be Stormcast. Despite Warhammer Fantasy being called Warhammer Fantasy it truely would have been better to call it Chaos End Times from the 6th to 8th edition. It's what it revolved around anyway.

The reason as to why GW has chosen to go for this design is to lead from the End Times to Age of Sigmar. In the End Times every Chaos army destroyed other forces. Now in Age of Sigmar Stormcasts are what has given Order the power to smash back. 

While I understand that subjectively speaking the heads of Stormcast don't look very dramatic or emotional there really is no stopping you from putting a regular head on there either. Some find the Khorne bunny helmet look retarted. Some find the balloon Kharadron look retarded. The conclusion that this damages the brand is completely incorrect though. Facts are sales and they are doing very well.

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5 minutes ago, Killax said:

With all respect to you but that's truely the strangest gripe. The game is called Age of Sigmar, Sigmar's Age, so logically the whole game will revolve more around Sigmar and his forces. In this case his forces happen to be Stormcast. Despite Warhammer Fantasy being called Warhammer Fantasy it truely would have been better to call it Chaos End Times from the 6th to 8th edition. It's what it revolved around anyway.

The reason as to why GW has chosen to go for this design is to lead from the End Times to Age of Sigmar. In the End Times every Chaos army destroyed other forces. Now in Age of Sigmar Stormcasts are what has given Order the power to smash back. 

While I understand that subjectively speaking the heads of Stormcast don't look very dramatic or emotional there really is no stopping you from putting a regular head on there either. Some find the Khorne bunny helmet look retarted. Some find the balloon Kharadron look retarded. The conclusion that this damages the brand is completely incorrect though. Facts are sales and they are doing very well.

Agreed, the whole of 6th up to 8th was pretty much chaos is going to smack everyone's faces in. Hence why it bothered me that GW did things to keep races from interacting with each other. This one page shows me what GW wants to do with AOS. It's clear they want the setting to be more like 40k where it's more open this page shows me you can create tons more stories. 

AoSFreerCities_Details2hcs.jpg

The inhabitants section to me is the most interesting. Seeing seraphon and Sylvaneth. That is amazing. 

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You know, I've tried typing up some decent posts about what I like about the setting, how I got over the change... But really, reading pages of the same thing makes me realise that I just enjoy it. It doesn't matter why, it's just a dumb guilty pleasure. I watch some awful movies, old shows and rubbish music without thinking too much about it.

So yeah, AoS is an intentionally silly fantasy setting made up for a lighthearted wargame. That isn't a bad thing, and there are wargames that are the exact opposite (that I just might like as well). The lack of some apparently crucial elements, or a focus on big bad and big good characters isn't an accident, it's intentional.

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1 hour ago, Lousy Beatnik said:

You know, I've tried typing up some decent posts about what I like about the setting, how I got over the change... But really, reading pages of the same thing makes me realise that I just enjoy it. It doesn't matter why, it's just a dumb guilty pleasure. I watch some awful movies, old shows and rubbish music without thinking too much about it.

So yeah, AoS is an intentionally silly fantasy setting made up for a lighthearted wargame. That isn't a bad thing, and there are wargames that are the exact opposite (that I just might like as well). The lack of some apparently crucial elements, or a focus on big bad and big good characters isn't an accident, it's intentional.

Exactly. This isn't an issue of a lack of detail, but more that the details don't appeal to everyone. Specifically, those who tend to lean towards the more historical and/or real world type of fantasy.

I mean, I read about people hunting flying sharks somewhere in one of these threads, lol.

My personal concern is that the aesthetic grounding currently comes from the legacy/dangler factions, such as the Free Peoples, Darkling Covens and Soulblight. If they were all removed tomorrow, we'd be left with some very distinct, technically excellent, but, let's face it, very cartoonish factions. That said, a more rustic paint job can help a lot in this regard (e.g.. avoiding the yellow on the Ironjawz, etc.).

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I still think that most people only dislike the Stormcast cause they haven't actually read any of the novels about the Hallowed Knights. It's easy to hate on facless suits of armour. But when you see all the stuff that Gardus, Grymn, Morbus and the rest of them are willing to go through to help the sylvaneth (who don't even like them for a major part of the story) then it's hard to keep disliking them. I didn't like Stormcast too until I read the books.

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Just now, GammaMage said:

I still think that most people only dislike the Stormcast cause they haven't actually read any of the novels about the Hallowed Knights. It's easy to hate on facless suits of armour. But when you see all the stuff that Gardus, Grymn, Morbus and the rest of them are willing to go through to help the sylvaneth (who don't even like them for a major part of the story) then it's hard to keep disliking them. I didn't like Stormcast too until I read the books.

Same here. I hated the stormcast at first but the audio drama changed my mind and I dived right in, even seen some people trying to remake Gardus since he is so well liked. 

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15 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

I mean, I read about people hunting flying sharks somewhere in one of these threads, lol.

 

Kharadrons, to be precise. Since they live in the skies they have lots of enemies there that are sky specific. Sky sharks, flying krakens (yay!), flying goblin pirates and the like. You will never get bored with them :)

17 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

My personal concern is that the aesthetic grounding currently comes from the legacy/dangler factions, such as the Free Peoples, Darkling Covens and Soulblight. If they were all removed tomorrow, we'd be left with some very distinct, technically excellent, but, let's face it, very cartoonish factions.

Not necessarily. I'd say quite cartoonish is Khorne, but he always was. To some extent the Fyreslayers, although they are better than Khorne in this regard. Sylvaneth or Beastclaw raiders are better still, and so on. But in any case, high fantasy always tends to exaggerate things, so it's quite normal.

18 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

e.g.. avoiding the yellow on the Ironjawz, etc.).

speaking of this. Do you know why? Yellow is an excellent choice for posterboys, because it's bright and eye catching but neutral as well, unlike blue or red, for instance. GW knows very well how to catch our eyes.

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Small diversion re: that Ironjawz but I am always seeing people say that GW's official paint jobs are bad, as if it's easy to come up with a  colour scheme and style that fulfils the twin pronged fronts of selling the product to people who are brand new to the hobby via  scheme that can be replicated fairly simply, and pleasing long term fans.

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Good thing about these games and settings is you can just make your own stuff up. The world is just a canvass and a bunch of guidelines and inspiration. 

I choose to play my goblins in a timewarp realm like the caverns of time in WoW, whereby I go through the gate and the other side is the old world, and its a one-way gate that only non-stormcast can go through (because magic n that). We live in the mountains near Kraka Drak in summer time, and go down to the forest in winter time. We keep ourselves to ourselves mostly, enjoying cultural activities such as doomdiver olympics, but do like to burn down human towns and pillage dwarf places when supplies run low. Kislev bears can't keep up with our spider riders and are easy prey, and the stunties here are no match for our squigs and arachnaroks. We keep mobile and are never predictable enough to ambush. 

Happy to move this existence to another realm if migration is feasible, or a better setting becomes apparent. I quite like the look of the mountains around anvilgard but apparently they're full of monsters so don't fancy that. Plus if a floating continent full of enemies floats by then we're screwed, so seems like a recipe for anxiety.

I've taken the advice in this thread and downloaded all the AOS books. Will skim them for goblin stuff. 

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2 minutes ago, DynamicCalories said:

Small diversion re: that Ironjawz but I am always seeing people say that GW's official paint jobs are bad, as if it's easy to come up with a  colour scheme and style that fulfils the twin pronged fronts of selling the product to people who are brand new to the hobby via  scheme that can be replicated fairly simply, and pleasing long term fans.

Exactly. Their painting is not bad, it's just simple and effective, but they always offer in the same book other schemes, more complex quite often. GW is experts in this.

 

2 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

I've taken the advice in this thread and downloaded all the AOS books. Will skim them for goblin stuff. 

 

Just now, GammaMage said:

I have read a lot of the AoS novels, don't remember coming across and grots/goblins. Lots of Ironjaws though.

You won't find goblins in the novels, yes. But, as I've mentioned lots of times, here as well, goblins have lots of attention in the following books: "Everchosen" battletome, "Godbeasts" campaign book, GA Destruction. Maybe I've forgotten something, but this is what has them for sure and quite a lot. 

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1 minute ago, GammaMage said:

I have read a lot of the AoS novels, don't remember coming across and grots/goblins. Lots of Ironjaws though.

Exactly, whereas the old world has tons of cool goblin stuff. I'm new to the whole warhammer thing, so can pick from either for the setting and play AOS for its cool battles. (played fantasy battles as a kid but hardly remember anything). 

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1 minute ago, Menkeroth said:

Exactly. Their painting is not bad, it's just simple and effective, but they always offer in the same book other schemes, more complex quite often. GW is experts in this.

 

 

You won't find goblins in the novels, yes. But, as I've mentioned lots of times, here as well, goblins have lots of attention in the following books: "Everchosen" battletome, "Godbeasts" campaign book, GA Destruction. Maybe I've forgotten something, but this is what has them for sure and quite a lot. 

Cool, will skim those first. Downloaded all the books. 

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15 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

Kharadrons, to be precise. Since they live in the skies they have lots of enemies there that are sky specific. Sky sharks, flying krakens (yay!), flying goblin pirates and the like. You will never get bored with them :)

Not necessarily. I'd say quite cartoonish is Khorne, but he always was. To some extent the Fyreslayers, although they are better than Khorne in this regard. Sylvaneth or Beastclaw raiders are better still, and so on. But in any case, high fantasy always tends to exaggerate things, so it's quite normal.

speaking of this. Do you know why? Yellow is an excellent choice for posterboys, because it's bright and eye catching but neutral as well, unlike blue or red, for instance. GW knows very well how to catch our eyes.

As with the gold of whatever the main Stormcast chapter is called, the yellow makes Ironjawz immediately recognisable as such.

However, it might be a bit too cartoonish for some tastes, and led to an initial negative response from some quarters (i.e. "they look to 40K", etc).

They hold up really well with a more understated and/or rustic scheme too, because they are, frankly, the best orcs ever produced:

Megaboss10a.jpg

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1 minute ago, Sheriff said:

Exactly, whereas the old world has tons of cool goblin stuff.

For 30 years it's possible, but AoS is way younger. I am sure goblins will come later anyway.

1 minute ago, Sheriff said:

Cool, will skim those first. 

You will like it, sure. I especially like the battle of Archaon with the spider goblins in his book. Yes, they lost because Archaon is a cheater, but they packed a punch! and have very sweet entries like a Bloodbound warrior gets pierced through by an arachnarok which then proceeds to eat the next one. Very sweet it is!

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24 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Exactly, whereas the old world has tons of cool goblin stuff. I'm new to the whole warhammer thing, so can pick from either for the setting and play AOS for its cool battles. (played fantasy battles as a kid but hardly remember anything). 

Remember sheriff 30 years worth of lore vs 2 and half years of lore for AOS. Most of the lore on the warhammer wiki comes from various sources since whfb is so disjointed compared to 40k during that time.

Spider goblins pop up in the everchosen battle tome, ga destruction and spear of shadows.

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Speaking of characters, my favorite is Mannfred. He is amazing, especially in his first appearance in the "Prisoner of the Black Sun". So charismatic! Well enough to match Tarssus, who was also quite interesting, not only because of his "deus ex machina" but also in general.  But Hamilcar rocks, sure, in every sense.

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1 hour ago, xking said:

http://ageofsigmar.wikia.com/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar_Wikia could always use some help if you want to.  I feel when people type "Age of sigmar lore" in google, They get the  Age of Sigmar Wiki first.

I think that was because of a problem with the Lexicanum namespaces, which should've been fixed and it should eventually raise to a better top spot.

Personally I don't like wikia itself as it's often more laggy. Besides Age of Sigmar wikia has problems with being very unwiki-like, like entire pages being narrated(i assume are copied directly from the source?) or extremely bad sourcing. Then again it might just be my bias.

That isn't to say that Fantasy English Lexi doesn't have some issues like it. It does due to lack of editors the registration menu is very intimidating, which is why it's gonna change soon and poor oversight over the years. I hope that has an administrator I can slowly improve the Lexicanum and it's also a good thing that the intimidating registration menu is going away.

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19 hours ago, Sheriff said:

Nope, my gripe is that the whole world's lore is stormcast. If i want to learn about some forest or a town or a realm or whatever, it comes with a mountainous side dish of stormcast stuff I don't give a squig about. "ahhh you want to read about the forest of doom? yes then you need to buy the stormcast novel #11 and read how it is no longer doomed thanks to this wonderful new faction of mat damon puppets." Its like how religous people decide their god is involved with everything on earth. Any good deeds done, and natural phenomenon was only done thanks to their lame god, oh and i must convert to their god and buy books about him. 

I just can't take stormcast seriously BECAUSE they look "stupid". It damages the whole brand of the game to have them thrust into our throats in every book and every product. Just swap them for a more likable faction in the books etc and problem solved. 

+++ Mod Hat On +++

I've been having a read through this topic and I want to make this very clear to you @Sheriff - I have no issue with you not liking Stormcast but your attitude in this and other replies is not what we want on this forum. Put more effort into your replies please, especially when saying something looks 'stupid' >:(

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@Gaz Taylor Well this discussion seems to have a flipside on the other end of the spectrum at the 4chan boards aswell. The thing really is that people hate Stormcast but don't really state any other reason than their visual appearance. To some extend I understand where they come from but the whole thought patron is extremely childish. My unsalted opinion about this is that "people" hate Stormcast because they feel they are directly the reason why Warhammer Fantasy was pushed away. While WFB was pushed away only and solely because of it's sales. Too many seem to forget that GW is a compagny, not just one office in the UK, a set of stores with people who make a living out of selling Warhammer too.
"People" hate Stormcast because they identify the removal of Warhammer Fantasy with the Stormcast.

Thing is, if people want to hate on them the 4chan boards are much better suited for that anyway. There one can speak out all the hate they have stored for it. The prime difference between a platform like 4chan and TGA is that TGA really embraces the hobby, is a Age of Sigmar fan-site so I really don't know what particular individuals think to gain or obtain by speaking out hate for these models.

Most regular Age of Sigmar players can't thake posts like that seriously because the only reason that is given so far about Stormcast hate is "they look stoopid". What looks stupid or not is so much up for debate we might aswell start a discussion on wether blue looks cooler as green...

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14 minutes ago, Killax said:

"People" hate Stormcast because they identify the removal of Warhammer Fantasy with the Stormcast.

I'm pretty sure this is what it boils down to 9 times out of 10. Not that the haters are likely to admit it.

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@Killax - I do not have an issue with anybody disliking or hating things. But when they comment about this in such a way which basically brings the tone of the topic down, then I have an issue. For me, this is not any of the other forums, this is TGA and we don't act like that here (like you have quite rightly said ;) )

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