The Future - And Past - of the AoS Aesthetic

[Ollie Grimwood]

14 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

 

I'm hopeful they will release more stuff that tells the story and setting for other factions too, e.g. how does the death economy work, how does a skaven paper mill operate, etc. If the books about these cities and farms could not involve stormcast that would be just swell. 

 

Seriously?  I believe you’re on a bit of a wind up now.   

[JontyGoesGaming]

9 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

A bunch of order cities. Good for them I guess (if they are willing to be subordinate to their lame stormcast overlords)

I'm hopeful they will release more stuff that tells the story and setting for other factions too, e.g. how does the death economy work, how does a skaven paper mill operate, etc. If the books about these cities and farms could not involve stormcast that would be just swell. 

The solution is simple, as this new mulit-realm world isn't exactly new ground, WoW did this stuff already very successfully. There are ways of making you like your world and your faction's corner(s) in it. 

 

It's a good point. You could make it without taking the ******, but then again I did drop a slightly snarky Thundercats map earlier in the thread.

There's plenty of scope to expand on for Skaven Cities, Godbeasts featured the Parasite Engines - colossal mechanical cities that crawled across the surface of the Scabrous Sprawl in Ghur. That would be great to expand on, and some art to match the Firestorm images would be fantastic I'd agree. 

We also know that Skaven are able to move between the Realms through Gnawholes without necessarily needing Realmgates (unless a Gnawhole is a corrupted Realmgate - there's a thought). So that opens up the possibility of Skaven cities or nests in interesting and hidden locations. I also think that for the Orruks as well as the Skaven it makes perfect sense for them to have occupied pre Age of Chaos settlements.

 

[Killax]

6 hours ago, stratigo said:

"Big shiny men smash hit evil bad men" isn't actually a genre though.

Unless, in your setting, no one needs to eat (and people need to eat in AoS) you have to know where they get food. So, farmers (or hunters or what have yous). The High Fantasy farmer might harvest the dreams of dying children that crystalize into edible wafers, or scrape bits of innards of a giant moving worm, but that's still farming. Are AoS races sociable and hierarchical (hint, they are) okay, how do they form hierarchy? What forms of social activity do they enjoy?

I get that you are satisfied with fantasy bolter ******. Good for you. Your bolter ****** won't be taken away from you by establishing more detailed a setting. It'll always be there. Bolter ****** is easy to write. But bolter ****** isn't actually a setting. You really should look what makes up high fantasy. It's not the ratios of swole dudes hitting each other verse world building in a book.

Well, it actually is in the high fantasy setting. If you want me to link half a dozen series that are about ´big shiny men smashing on evil bad men´ all you really need to do is look into the high fantasy setting to begin with. Age os Sigmar is an example of many that work this way. If you don't look into the narrative you won't know anything about it either. Orcs from the World of Warcraft series for example arn't just evil and destructive, they have a depth. Yet one could easily boil it down in parties smashing paries... 

As before, Age of Sigmar the game itself is not a novel, nor will Games Workshop ever go into detail for their game on every interest of every warrior. Black Liberary might cover that, WFB certainly didn't cover that kind of information in their army books in any more detail as Age of Sigmar does. Funny enough the hierarchy is almost found in every book, so if you looked into one I think you'd awnser your own question. What social ativity they enjoyed is covered for some, as before it is a miniature wargame and this is where it focus lies, it always lied there. Not all armies even have a regular social life to begin with. They are for example undead or demons, extensions of their creator who very much uses them as tools of war.

Age of Sigmar discussed here isn't Age of Sigmar in a book. The product is not created to be a novel. The books are supplement to play the game and have some narrative background, not to have a whole story. Black Liberary covers characters most often unplayable in the game and writes novels. Do you want to discuss the Age of Sigmar game books or Black Liberary novels? They are not one and the same.
 

3 hours ago, Aegisgrimm said:

I have no problem if the locations I am fighting for are giant Aelven tree-cities, or huge crevasse-wall sprawling cities with market districts from every race and realm, or encased entirely inside of giant cloud-reaching towers the heights of which airships dock, as long as they are fleshed out.  It still gives me a cool background for why I am throwing my army against another than just to 'claim enemy territory, something, something'.

Check the Battletomes they have covered this and fleshed out a lot for every army. All that is really required is that you read one of them to form an opinion  

49 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

A bunch of order cities. Good for them I guess (if they are willing to be subordinate to their lame stormcast overlords)

I'm hopeful they will release more stuff that tells the story and setting for other factions too, e.g. how does the death economy work, how does a skaven paper mill operate, etc. If the books about these cities and farms could not involve stormcast that would be just swell. 

The solution is simple, as this new mulit-realm world isn't exactly new ground, WoW did this stuff already very successfully. There are ways of making you like your world and your faction's corner(s) in it. 

In many books they have covered Chaos cities, Death maps are currently exclusive to Flesh-Eater Courts Battletome and I expect to see more because the Grand Allegiance Death only has one book that currently covers it's lore.

Funny enough they are even releasing a game called Shadespire which completely focusses on a Death city, Shadespire. There isn't as much covered on Goblins because they do not have their own Battletome or seperate game yet.

[shinros]

I don't recall many novels in whfb and army books talking about joe the farmer. They normally focus on heroes of the faction or the army doing cool stuff. Joe the farmer is insignificant and when they do mention joe the farmer they only exist to die horrifically so the hero of the story can look cool. The only time they talk about joe the farmer in any detail is in the rpg books or specialist games like they did for AOS . (Yes I am plugging my lore thread hammerhall post people who want to know about normal life go read it) don't want to sound mean but reading some of these comments I am getting the feeling people haven't been reading the books or keeping up with the narrative of the setting.

Its all well and good to dislike something since people have different opinions on things. What I am reading to me looks like there is a clear lack of understanding going on and people having not read battle tomes or the specialist game lore. Almost every other day I find people who still think stormcast are golems and are shocked seeing their face or that GW still haven't talked about normal people or cities many people don't even know the world map for ghyran exists.

 

[stratigo]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

Well, it actually is in the high fantasy setting. If you want me to link half a dozen series that are about ´big shiny men smashing on evil bad men´ all you really need to do is look into the high fantasy setting to begin with. Age os Sigmar is an example of many that work this way. If you don't look into the narrative you won't know anything about it either. Orcs from the World of Warcraft series for example arn't just evil and destructive, they have a depth. Yet one could easily boil it down in parties smashing paries... 

As before, Age of Sigmar the game itself is not a novel, nor will Games Workshop ever go into detail for their game on every interest of every warrior. Black Liberary might cover that, WFB certainly didn't cover that kind of information in their army books in any more detail as Age of Sigmar does. Funny enough the hierarchy is almost found in every book, so if you looked into one I think you'd awnser your own question. What social ativity they enjoyed is covered for some, as before it is a miniature wargame and this is where it focus lies, it always lied there. Not all armies even have a regular social life to begin with. They are for example undead or demons, extensions of their creator who very much uses them as tools of war.

Age of Sigmar discussed here isn't Age of Sigmar in a book. The product is not created to be a novel. The books are supplement to play the game and have some narrative background, not to have a whole story. Black Liberary covers characters most often unplayable in the game and writes novels. Do you want to discuss the Age of Sigmar game books or Black Liberary novels? They are not one and the same.
 

Check the Battletomes they have covered this and fleshed out a lot for every army. All that is really required is that you read one of them to form an opinion  

In many books they have covered Chaos cities, Death maps are currently exclusive to Flesh-Eater Courts Battletome and I expect to see more because the Grand Allegiance Death only has one book that currently covers it's lore.

Funny enough they are even releasing a game called Shadespire which completely focusses on a Death city, Shadespire. There isn't as much covered on Goblins because they do not have their own Battletome or seperate game yet.

Let me tell you, big manly dudes smashing other big manly dudes can be slotted into any and all genres (well those that allow for people to fight). But what's the difference between a big manly dude hitting another one in high fantasy verse one doing it in gothic fantasy? Why it's the world building and the setting of course. High fantasy adds more fantastical less grounded elements with looser internal rules. but, ya know, those elements are building the world. Kharadron Overlord source book is much better than than the stormcast one. Why? It adds an actual civilization and society while, *gasp* also allowed them to build you an army that fights. Stormcast source book is "this group of heroes fights good. This group of heroes fights good riding an immortal dragon thing. This group of heroes fights good sneakily while still wearing gleaming gold armor". The Ironjawz books has better world building that the stormcast book, and the ironjawz are literally a group that revolves entirely around fighting for just the sake of hitting things.

 

It is flatly distressing that people think world building is somehow inimical to a high fantasy setting. Like the second a deeper culture beyond "and these guys like to fight cause they are noblebright/evil monsters/mercenaries" is detailed it suddenly ceases to be high fantasy. Do people actually read high fantasy?

 

So, yes, I am in fact praising GW's recent attempt to create more fleshed out factions and release more world building. And lightly bemoaning that they didn't start with a faction as strong as the kharadrons as opposed to the Stormcast.

 

I play the game to build a narrative and to find a challenge. AoS started with neither, and then, over the last two years, added both. And I hope they add more. I hope they build the world more detailed, and cooler. And I hope they fine tune the balance and the armies more. And neither of these things are going to transmute the setting away from big manly men hitting each other with swords. It'll just make those of us (and I'd warrant that's most of us) that want a reason that those dudes are hitting each other to exist happy.

[shinros]

Stormcast do have a great narrative far better than space marines in my opinion. You just don't like it also you have no idea that you are the majority or not.

[stratigo]

8 minutes ago, shinros said:

I don't recall many novels in whfb and army books talking about joe the farmer. They normally focus on heroes of the faction or the army doing cool stuff. Joe the farmer is insignificant and when they do mention joe the farmer they only exist to die horrifically so the hero of the story can look cool. The only time they talk about joe the farmer in any detail is in the rpg books or specialist games like they did for AOS . (Yes I am plugging my lore thread hammerhall post people who want to know about normal life go read it) don't want to sound mean but reading some of these comments I am getting the feeling people haven't been reading the books or keeping up with the narrative of the setting.

Its all well and good to dislike something since people have different opinions on things. What I am reading to me looks like there is a clear lack of understanding going on and people having not read battle tomes or the specialist game lore.

Joe the farmer is scene setting and world building. He's a couple paragraphs in a 300 page book that gives you a view on the society the heroic protagonists inhabit and contextualizes their struggles. There will likely be a dozen or so joe the farmer (as in separate joes.) scenes in a good book. They are short, and they are extremely important.

 

If you do enough joe the farmers for enough years, then you can eventually skip joe the farmer entirely and focus on the hero because everyone remembers good old joe exists in the setting. Space Marines thrive off this in at least half their books that focus entirely on loosely contextualized battles.

[Killax]

7 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Let me tell you, big manly dudes smashing other big manly dudes can be slotted into any and all genres (well those that allow for people to fight). But what's the difference between a big manly dude hitting another one in high fantasy verse one doing it in gothic fantasy? Why it's the world building and the setting of course. High fantasy adds more fantastical less grounded elements with looser internal rules. but, ya know, those elements are building the world. Kharadron Overlord source book is much better than than the stormcast one. Why? It adds an actual civilization and society while, *gasp* also allowed them to build you an army that fights. Stormcast source book is "this group of heroes fights good. This group of heroes fights good riding an immortal dragon thing. This group of heroes fights good sneakily while still wearing gleaming gold armor". The Ironjawz books has better world building that the stormcast book, and the ironjawz are literally a group that revolves entirely around fighting for just the sake of hitting things.

 

It is flatly distressing that people think world building is somehow inimical to a high fantasy setting. Like the second a deeper culture beyond "and these guys like to fight cause they are noblebright/evil monsters/mercenaries" is detailed it suddenly ceases to be high fantasy. Do people actually read high fantasy?

 

So, yes, I am in fact praising GW's recent attempt to create more fleshed out factions and release more world building. And lightly bemoaning that they didn't start with a faction as strong as the kharadrons as opposed to the Stormcast.

 

I play the game to build a narrative and to find a challenge. AoS started with neither, and then, over the last two years, added both. And I hope they add more. I hope they build the world more detailed, and cooler. And I hope they fine tune the balance and the armies more. And neither of these things are going to transmute the setting away from big manly men hitting each other with swords. It'll just make those of us (and I'd warrant that's most of us) that want a reason that those dudes are hitting each other to exist happy.

The only thing I can make out of the first paragraph is that you dislike Stormcast but don't mind Kharadron Overlords and Ironjawz. So far the prime reason for me to not like one over the other is because objectively speaking the Stormcast Eternal Battletome covers the actual civilisations and societies that are in cities protected by the Stormcast. You seem very visually focused on the disliking of gleaming gold armor. Personally I understand that but this doesn't mean their narrative is not fleshed out as well. If anything Stormcast have the most narrative, the most cities, the most social norms and the most former joes.

It's flatly distressing that you make some claims without citing sources and continue to assume the Stormcast are void of narrative designs "you are looking for". Do you actually read Battletomes and Age of Sigmar books or did you skip on it? So far the above claim more or less shows you havn't looked into Stormcast at all. If you would look past the golden armour you'll find fleshed out factions within Stormcast. 

If you are looking for a game that builds narrative and finds challenges your really doing a disservice to yourself by playing a miniatures wargame, again an RPG sets itself much better for that. Age of Sigmar revolves around armies fighting (constantly) because this is what the game emulates. It's as close as creating a story for store and tournament events as it gets.

[shinros]

11 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Joe the farmer is scene setting and world building. He's a couple paragraphs in a 300 page book that gives you a view on the society the heroic protagonists inhabit and contextualizes their struggles. There will likely be a dozen or so joe the farmer (as in separate joes.) scenes in a good book. They are short, and they are extremely important.

 

If you do enough joe the farmers for enough years, then you can eventually skip joe the farmer entirely and focus on the hero because everyone remembers good old joe exists in the setting. Space Marines thrive off this in at least half their books that focus entirely on loosely contextualized battles.

My point being proven again since in the very first AOS novel(at the beginning section of the novel)we have a group of humans running from the cannibal blood bound and one character explaining how terrible living in the age of chaos. She makes the point that most people don't see 20 years. She says when the blood bound find you, you get a choice join them or be eaten. They also had to leave behind the old and children.

 Which gives more purpose to why the stormcast fight and lends more significance to the summer campaign and the new cities. They do this in like every novel have you read any of the novels?

we even have normal humans in the audio drama. My personal interest is how the stormcast deal with these situations showing me how human they truly are. 

[JontyGoesGaming]

I'm not sure this thread is going anywhere any more - feels like more of a protracted argument than a discussion

[shinros]

1 minute ago, JontyGoesGaming said:

I'm not sure this thread is going anywhere any more - feels like more of a protracted argument than a discussion

Yup I feel the same way actually this thread shows me I gotta work a lot harder on the lexicanum and my lore thread.

[Killax]

The only reason as to why I think many former WFB player react this way to Stormcast in general is because they indeed look very different to any of the WFB factions. Fyreslayers still look like Dwarf Slayers, Ironjawz still look like Black Orcs, Bloodbound looks like Mortal Khorne etc. 

What I believe we'll see in the future is more mixed colour examples of Stormcast, it will also do them a service and at the same time I also only expect more human faces to appear on the Stormcast warriors. Afterall they do look a lot like Dr. Who's Cybermen and honestly I don't like that look too much either. The moment they have a bald head it becomes much more visually clear that Stormcast are indeed super-human instead of robots. 

It's just a pitty that because of their visual appearance most former WFB players don't want to read into them. The mere sight seemfully upsets them. I've had these same kind of confrontations in stores too, the cool thing about Age of Sigmar remains that you don't have to play Stormcast at all to matter. In fact, thanks to GH2017 even more former WFB armies are extremely solid to play with. 

 

[stratigo]

4 minutes ago, Killax said:

The only thing I can make out of the first paragraph is that you dislike Stormcast but don't mind Kharadron Overlords and Ironjawz. So far the prime reason for me to not like one over the other is because objectively speaking the Stormcast Eternal Battletome covers the actual civilisations and societies that are in cities protected by the Stormcast. You seem very visually focused on the disliking of gleaming gold armor. Personally I understand that but this doesn't mean their narrative is not fleshed out as well. If anything Stormcast have the most narrative, the most cities, the most social norms and the most former joes.

It's flatly distressing that you make some claims without citing sources and continue to assume the Stormcast are void of narrative designs "you are looking for". Do you actually read Battletomes and Age of Sigmar books or did you skip on it? So far the above claim more or less shows you havn't looked into Stormcast at all. If you would look past the golden armour you'll find fleshed out factions within Stormcast. 

If you are looking for a game that builds narrative and finds challenges your really doing a disservice to yourself by playing a miniatures wargame, again an RPG sets itself much better for that. Age of Sigmar revolves around armies fighting (constantly) because this is what the game emulates. It's as close as creating a story for store and tournament events as it gets.

where did I get too bored with the Stormcast battletome that I stopped and went to the rules? Vanguard-Hunters. The Vanguard-Hunters part is where I tapped out. I consumed the vast majority of the battletome's setting.

 

You show me where in that entire battletome it builds a setting. What I got is that Stormcast are immortal. Their mounts are immortal. They were once great heroes. They lose their personality when they die. They're super mega ultra awesome at messing up the bad guys. There's a super sized city in Azyrheim.

 

Again, the most interesting thing about a stormcast is who they were before they died. They were once great heroes. Now they are a largely faceless mass. Their entire visual ascetic is at odds with their concept as, essentially, einherjar. They all adopt this largely uniform and unvaried ascetic. They have no personal heraldry, they incorporate no flair. You'd think great kings, knights, and heroes of all stripes would want to show off. They'd throw down their war cred. They'd wear something that declared "I am Horgath, kicker of ass, I slew three gargants in a single blow before I was felled, and for my heroic deeds I was raised to fight eternally". And... they don't. And if they did more of that we'd actually get to see the cultures and societies these heroes would come from. I want my stormcast to be bombastic and boastful. They're not warrior monks. The sigmarine crack isn't because they are large dudes in shiny armor. It's because they act like warrior monks sworn to asceticism in most of their mentions and, most importantly, they LOOK like ascetic warrior monks. 

11 minutes ago, shinros said:

My point being proven again since in the very first AOS novel we have a group of humans running from the cannibal blood bound and one character explaining how terrible livingn in the age of chaos is which gives more purpose to why the stormcast fight and lends more significance to the summer campaign and the new cities. They do this in like every novel have you read any of the novels?

we even have normal humans in the audio drama.

 

They are disconnected to everything. They're disposable in a way Grungi's forge is not in Spear of Shadows. But, again, they've gotten increasingly better.

 

7 minutes ago, JontyGoesGaming said:

I'm not sure this thread is going anywhere any more - feels like more of a protracted argument than a discussion

The joys of internet forums.

[stratigo]

1 minute ago, Killax said:

The only reason as to why I think many former WFB player react this way to Stormcast in general is because they indeed look very different to any of the WFB factions. Fyreslayers still look like Dwarf Slayers, Ironjawz still look like Black Orcs, Bloodbound looks like Mortal Khorne etc. 

What I believe we'll see in the future is more mixed colour examples of Stormcast, it will also do them a service and at the same time I also only expect more human faces to appear on the Stormcast warriors. Afterall they do look a lot like Dr. Who's Cybermen and honestly I don't like that look too much either. The moment they have a bald head it becomes much more visually clear that Stormcast are indeed super-human instead of robots. 

It's just a pitty that because of their visual appearance most former WFB players don't want to read into them. The mere sight seemfully upsets them. 

 

Yo do realize my favorite faction is the steampunk sky dwarves right? I haven't hid it have I? Have I failed to mention them enough? I could just interject "KHARADRONS ARE AWESOME" in every post.

 

[Lousy Beatnik]

Weird to see people feeling they need to defend liking age of Sigmar on an age of Sigmar forum.

As for the  food, farming, building homes and all that obsession, I just opened up the Pestilens novel.

Farmers growing fungus on the back of the living city worm, houses and libraries built into the hairs on its back, skaven going to live inside the flesh (there's even a rotting orruk fort inside the stomach) and Stormcast reminiscing about simpler times hunting for food.

[Sheriff]

17 minutes ago, stratigo said:

It is flatly distressing that people think world building is somehow inimical to a high fantasy setting...

 

bemoaning that they didn't start with a faction as strong as the kharadrons as opposed to the Stormcast.

 

This. I'd happily have karadrons on the cover of every new release for a year. Anything but more stormcast. Once you realise they look like matt damon puppets you can't un-see it. 

Karadrons are a great example of this new whacky world having a more modern/futurey feel without it sucking. They're awesome. 

[shinros]

stormcast look like warrior monks? To me they look like an army of Paladins the opposite to chaos warriors and joe the farmer whenever he exists in warhammer novels is there to be disposed of to make the army look great it's like a staple of warhammer novels. You just said we need normal humans to understand and show context to a situation of how it is for a normal human to live in the realms I provided that. They do it numerous times when the stormcast find enclaves and villages of people in the novels where they go into detail of how they survive and in turn show how human stormcast are compared to space marines. Now they are going into detail on the cities which are nothing like old world cities I should add.

Your posts to me now just look like you don't like stormcast since all I see is a surface understanding. I mean that's okay but don't present it in a way that's how majority of people think. Considering how popular the audio drama series is and Warbeast(who won the Gemmel)

[shinros]

9 minutes ago, Lousy Beatnik said:

Weird to see people feeling they need to defend liking age of Sigmar on an age of Sigmar forum.

As for the  food, farming, building homes and all that obsession, I just opened up the Pestilens novel.

Farmers growing fungus on the back of the living city worm, houses and libraries built into the hairs on its back, skaven going to live inside the flesh (there's even a rotting orruk fort inside the stomach) and Stormcast reminiscing about simpler times hunting for food.

Yup. That city is seen again in spear of shadows in the present time of the setting also that book is rather "old". It's all there people just have not been bothered to read it.

[Sheriff]

24 minutes ago, Killax said:

The only thing I can make out of the first paragraph is that you dislike Stormcast but don't mind Kharadron Overlords and Ironjawz. So far the prime reason for me to not like one over the other is because objectively speaking the Stormcast Eternal Battletome covers the actual civilisations and societies that are in cities protected by the Stormcast. You seem very visually focused on the disliking of gleaming gold armor. Personally I understand that but this doesn't mean their narrative is not fleshed out as well. If anything Stormcast have the most narrative, the most cities, the most social norms and the most former joes.

It's flatly distressing that you make some claims without citing sources and continue to assume the Stormcast are void of narrative designs "you are looking for". Do you actually read Battletomes and Age of Sigmar books or did you skip on it? So far the above claim more or less shows you havn't looked into Stormcast at all. If you would look past the golden armour you'll find fleshed out factions within Stormcast. 

If you are looking for a game that builds narrative and finds challenges your really doing a disservice to yourself by playing a miniatures wargame, again an RPG sets itself much better for that. Age of Sigmar revolves around armies fighting (constantly) because this is what the game emulates. It's as close as creating a story for store and tournament events as it gets.

>dislike Stormcast but don't mind Kharadron Overlords and Ironjawz

Yep, this is a common view. Not just him. 

>Stormcast have the most narrative, the most cities, the most social norms and the most former joes.

This is the problem. Stormcast are everywhere, in every book released, running all the cities. Its like every dish I eat having to have some marmite in it. It tastes disgusting. 

8 minutes ago, Lousy Beatnik said:

Weird to see people feeling they need to defend liking age of Sigmar on an age of Sigmar forum.

As for the  food, farming, building homes and all that obsession, I just opened up the Pestilens novel.

Farmers growing fungus on the back of the living city worm, houses and libraries built into the hairs on its back, skaven going to live inside the flesh (there's even a rotting orruk fort inside the stomach) and Stormcast reminiscing about simpler times hunting for food.

Hmm so stormcast were in the pestilens book? shocker. 

Plenty of people like this game but don't like stormcast. 

 

[Killax]

9 minutes ago, stratigo said:

where did I get too bored with the Stormcast battletome that I stopped and went to the rules? Vanguard-Hunters. The Vanguard-Hunters part is where I tapped out. I consumed the vast majority of the battletome's setting.

You show me where in that entire battletome it builds a setting. What I got is that Stormcast are immortal. Their mounts are immortal. They were once great heroes. They lose their personality when they die. They're super mega ultra awesome at messing up the bad guys. There's a super sized city in Azyrheim.

Again, the most interesting thing about a stormcast is who they were before they died. They were once great heroes. Now they are a largely faceless mass. Their entire visual ascetic is at odds with their concept as, essentially, einherjar. They all adopt this largely uniform and unvaried ascetic. They have no personal heraldry, they incorporate no flair. You'd think great kings, knights, and heroes of all stripes would want to show off. They'd throw down their war cred. They'd wear something that declared "I am Horgath, kicker of ass, I slew three gargants in a single blow before I was felled, and for my heroic deeds I was raised to fight eternally". And... they don't. And if they did more of that we'd actually get to see the cultures and societies these heroes would come from. I want my stormcast to be bombastic and boastful. They're not warrior monks. The sigmarine crack isn't because they are large dudes in shiny armor. It's because they act like warrior monks sworn to asceticism in most of their mentions and, most importantly, they LOOK like ascetic warrior monks. 

The game is more as Stormcast, so if you don't like them feel free to not focus on them. It seems that youve made your conclusion about them without reading much more into it. This is your choice. This isn't where the book stops thicking the plot.

When you look into this Battletome and the recent Firestorm expansion you see that Stormcast are to some extend immortal, in the sence that their death turns into energy that can be used again. The same is true for Seraphon and Chaos Daemons, this concept is even logical and commonly used in high fantasy designs. They are indeed ultra awesome in messing up the bad guys, so are the bad guys in messing up the good guys.
What you like is the human aspect and the hero that can die. What you like is also there in Age of Sigmar and even in Stormcast. The moment a Stormcast gets destroyed he isn't instantly brought back to the place where he used to be. What is objectively and visually incorrect is that they do have personal heraldy and flair. They are to an extend akin to the Space Marine Warrior monks but they have many more doubts as Space Marines. In many way Stormcast are much more human as Space Marines are. 

4 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

This. I'd happily have karadrons on the cover of every new release for a year. Anything but more stormcast. Once you realise they look like matt damon puppets you can't un-see it. 

Karadrons are a great example of this new whacky world having a more modern/futurey feel without it sucking. They're awesome. 

It's an option, though hating on Stormcast for the sake of it is also becomming an old joke.

As before they recieve the same flak Warriors of Chaos recieved in the end of WFB. Something will be a posterboy and some people will hate on it, not willing to actually give a single valid reason other than their visual appearance.

[Killax]

4 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

This is the problem. Stormcast are everywhere, in every book released, running all the cities. Its like every dish I eat having to have some marmite in it. It tastes disgusting. 

It's fantastic how you two parties don't read each others posts.

First problem presented: "Stormcast are not fleshed out well". Yet they are.
Second problem presented: "The issue is that Stormcast are fleshed out everywhere". 

As before, something has to be a main story. Space Marines are the Matt Damon of 40K. Chaos Warriors where the Matt Damon of WFB.
Feel free to write complaints to GW about it. 

 

[DynamicCalories]

As I said in that big post earlier, I think the whole faceless nature of the Stormcast is what makes them interesting. It positions Sigmar as very clearly as a force for 'Order' not what might be considered morally 'Good'. His version of Order is skewed towards rigid regimentation, and use of his troops as nothing more than a resource.

Losing their personality is not a desirable outcome, its indoctrination into a dubious war machine. Named Stormcast Heroes are those who have somehow managed to retain their personality through endless reforging - or by not dying - but they're no less allowed to wear personal heraldry than any other, because they've lost that right.

As I also said in my big mega post earlier, it also leaves them totally open for you to make your own lore, because your Stormhost can come in any colour and be from any part of the mortal realms. There are plenty of cases of Stormhosts working to retain their heritage - from beast slayers, to those persecuted by Chaos who swear vengeance. It's very "Ra Ra Kill The Baddies", but it doesn't have to be. Just like the with Space Marines, not all chapters are The Ultramarines. There are potentially endless Stormhosts for you to create your own background from - those who lived alongside the Sylvaneth and so have an affinity for Nature, those who have made deals with the Kharadron because they're from the guard of a mercantile city. The possibilities are as broad as the realms.

 

[shinros]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

It's fantastic how you two parties don't read each others posts.

First problem presented: "Stormcast are not fleshed out well". Yet they are.
Second problem presented: "The issue is that Stormcast are fleshed out everywhere". 

As before, something has to be a main story. Space Marines are the Matt Damon of 40K. Chaos Warriors where the Matt Damon of WFB.
Feel free to write complaints to GW about it. 

 

Thank you. As a vampire count fan it was pretty much sorry undead you can't be the bad guy or useful in any story? Why cause warriors of chaos! They are the main bad guy! That's how the setting is written.(I did not hate warriors of chaos they have an interesting culture and how they worshipped the gods is neat) At least now they are moving away from that. Ironjawz smashed aside chaos and order in Ghur in a funny and orky fashion securing their all gate.. Stormcast lost several times to chaos and now next year undead are going to pop their head up. 

[Sheriff]

Just now, Killax said:

It's fantastic how you two parties don't read each others post.

First problem presented: "Stormcast are not fleshed out well". Yet they are.

Second problem presented: "The issue is that Stormcast are fleshed out everywhere". 

As before, something has to be a main story. Space Marines are the Matt Damon of 40K. Feel free to write complaints to GW about it. 

 

Nope, my gripe is that the whole world's lore is stormcast. If i want to learn about some forest or a town or a realm or whatever, it comes with a mountainous side dish of stormcast stuff I don't give a squig about. "ahhh you want to read about the forest of doom? yes then you need to buy the stormcast novel #11 and read how it is no longer doomed thanks to this wonderful new faction of mat damon puppets." Its like how religous people decide their god is involved with everything on earth. Any good deeds done, and natural phenomenon was only done thanks to their lame god, oh and i must convert to their god and buy books about him. 

I just can't take stormcast seriously BECAUSE they look retarded. It damages the whole brand of the game to have them thrust into our throats in every book and every product. Just swap them for a more likable faction in the books etc and problem solved. 

[shinros]

11 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Nope, my gripe is that the whole world's lore is stormcast. If i want to learn about some forest or a town or a realm or whatever, it comes with a mountainous side dish of stormcast stuff I don't give a squig about. "ahhh you want to read about the forest of doom? yes then you need to buy the stormcast novel #11 and read how it is no longer doomed thanks to this wonderful new faction of mat damon puppets." Its like how religous people decide their god is involved with everything on earth. Any good deeds done, and natural phenomenon was only done thanks to their lame god, oh and i must convert to their god and buy books about him. 

I just can't take stormcast seriously BECAUSE they look retarded. It damages the whole brand of the game to have them thrust into our throats in every book and every product. Just swap them for a more likable faction in the books etc and problem solved. 

So you just don't like them. That's okay because there are novels where stormcasts are not the main characters. GW had stories commissioned for people who may not be that into them but in the end there are many who are. If everyone hated stormcast the hunt of nagash would of not sold that well(Best AOS story IMO). If people hated them warbeast would not have won the gemmel and been so highly praised. 

 Still we are going to see a lot of them since they are the poster boys and girls it's just how it is.  Still I recommend city of secrets and spear of shadows. Also C.L new book coming out soon.