Jump to content

Destruction showing at Facehammer GT - Debrief


Chris Tomlin

Recommended Posts

Afternoon guys,

Following on from the kind of topics @Soup Dragon has made for BLACKOUT and Stirling recently, I thought I'd get some discussion going following the Facehammer GT this weekend.

This event was 92 players, 5 games of GH2017. By this time most people would have played the new battleplans I guess (unfortunately I'd only played 3 going in) and everything seemed a little more settled than BLACKOUT. Out of 92 players, we had an pretty pitiful 11 Destruction players. Let's take a look at placings and allegiances;

3 - Nicky Myland - Bonesplitterz @?
4 - Chris Tomlin - Ironjawz
30 - Ian Spink - Bonesplitterz @Kanamorf
36 - Kieran Harper - Ironjawz @Sangfroid
39 - Kane Holloway - Ironjawz @?
44 - Mike Thomas - Destruction @?
48 - Paul Haley - Ironjawz @Paul Haley
49 - Ian Gilmore - Ironjawz @Ian Gilmore
57 - William Morriss - Ironjawz @William Morriss
78 - Tom Wall - Ironjawz @Tom
83 - Paul Whitehead - Beastclaw Raiders @Soup Dragon

(full disclosure; this event also had small soft scores for paint and sports)

So actually it seems like Ironjawz are reasonably well represented and this is probably as many as we've seen at larger tournaments. It's the other allegiances and the generic grand alliance that actually appear to be poorly represented.

Whilst Bonesplitterz are widely regarded as being nerfed (a fair obseveration IMO), it does appear that they can still very much compete at the highest level. That said both Nicky and Ian are very good players who have been using the army for some time now. Still, I would've expected more than 2 Bonesplitterz players to be in attendance.

Beastclaw Raiders seem to be in the floor at the moment but I will leave it in the capable hands of Paul to discuss that further. This is a real shame, especially when I look to Paul as one of the top Destruction players in the country over the past couple of years and can see his frustration to the point he may switch armies :( 

Ironjawz on the other hand seem to be doing ok. Bit of a mixed bag on the results front, but I had a good conversation with Kieran and Ian Spink at the event, discussing how we think for most tournament players that 3 wins (and feeling competitive in your losses) is a perfectly acceptable place to be. Obviously there will be players who are gunning for that top spot, but I think we (as Ironjawz players) can feel we are in most of our games and will have a chance. I suspect there probably is a ceiling for us as you would need a really favourable draw and some luck to be able to hit 5 wins. Incidentally neither myself or Kieran went with the Ironfist and I have to say, I for one did not miss it.

Just some initial thoughts for now to get the discussion going guys. Finally, well done to Nicky for placing highest and to Kieran for taking home the Best Destruction trophy for the highest number of Kill Points.

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 78
  • Created
  • Last Reply

What I don't get is that Moonclan were the winners of the big tournament right before GH2017, and haven't really changed since... so was expecting more people jumping on the squig bandwagon. Nope!

Looks like you had fun though - what happened in your game 3 Chris xD 

I can promise you that next year will have at least 1 more non-orc destruction army, as I'll be there with my precious beautiful spiders :P

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ha ha ha! What a fun result.

So if we want to spin it positively: " 2 out of top 5 places taken by Destruction"

If we want it negative: "Only 3 Destruction armies in top 30"

That should give everyone something to gripe about or praise! Nicky and Chris did amazingly well and huge kudos to them. I'll post more details on my risible result later when I've more time, and comment on how Destruction felt overall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Looks like you had fun though - what happened in your game 3 Chris xD 

On turn 1, the Changeling stole Foot of Gork, cast it using destiny dice and promptly inflicted 12 mortal wounds on my Maw-krusha before it moved (I managed to dab 2 away), The Changeling then charged one of my Spear Chukkas and used more destiny dice to ensure that he wiped out the crew. This was Duality of Death, so the combination of crippling the Maw-krusha and severely reducing my ability to pick off his characters made this series of moves a masterstroke on @Superpotts part and nearly won him the game! He actually apologised afterwards, but I told he shouldn't as it was utterly amazing and is the best that Foot of Gork has ever done on my table!!! xD

**EDIT**

Oh wait, you asked about game 3. The above was game 2. In game 3 my opponent @Ralphy99 (a Destruction turncoat actually! ;))  had two turns before my first one thanks to the Engine of the Gods! :o The extra turn is devastating enough but is bearable, its the fact you score two full rounds of objectives that really hurt. Was still a good game and again its another fun story to tell isn't it.

I like big moments in Warhammer, they tend to be the things I remember...both of the above qualify :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the report.

41 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Incidentally neither myself or Kieran went with the Ironfist and I have to say, I for one did not miss it.

This is really nice to know. It lines up with my own experiences in my FLGS. 

Were there any other "oddities" or quirks with the list that worked/didn't. What were the big winners and big losers of the list for you? Don't have to answer, trade secrets what not, I'm just after real world experience from actually good players!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say I had a blast this weekend. Bonesplitterz have been hit but not as badly as I first thought.

I don't think they are ever going to be an army you can just turn up with an win like you could before. But with some clever playing and a good understanding you can win 4 out of 5 games. The one game you will loose consistently is the one against the army with 2+ saves rerolling  1. Of which there are a few floating round in the current meta. I am happy with this as I play my splitterz because I love them not because I want to win tournaments.

Of the two games I lost one was because I made the mistake of taking my eye off the scenario and concentrated on killing meaning my characters did not get to the objectives in time to score. The other was against a Star Drake...... On the plus side I killed the stardrake for the first time ever to complete my own personal tick list of 'every type of monster I have ever faced has been killed'. While the stardrake was sying the rest of the army was wracking up the points.....

Great event fun games, not totally disapointed with the results. Roll on the Finals this weekend

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, meet.the.doctor said:

I am curious what are the Bonesplitterz list apart from Arrow Boyz. Any Allied monsters? ;)

This is what I took

 

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint 
- Artefact: Glowin Tattooz 
Savage Big Boss (120)
- Granite Choppas 
Wardokk (100)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask 
Wardokk (100)

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (320)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (320)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (160)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline

Units
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (160)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

 

My only change would be to swap a wardokk for an maniac wierdnob shaman, but he is 20 points more so I have to work out what else to shift around

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Thanks for the report.

This is really nice to know. It lines up with my own experiences in my FLGS. 

Were there any other "oddities" or quirks with the list that worked/didn't. What were the big winners and big losers of the list for you? Don't have to answer, trade secrets what not, I'm just after real world experience from actually good players!

No secrets, I'm more than happy to discuss any aspect of my list or games. We're all friends here!

The Maw-krusha is absolutely the linchpin of the army as it always has been. However now, with Mystic Shield, Ironclad and the Daubing of Mork (unless you listen to @Sangfroid ;)) makes him an absolute tank that some armies just cant deal with. If they can deal with him, it tends to take a lot, leaving the Brutes to get in unmolested.

Key plays have to be around Smashing and Bashing (triggered 5 combats in one round) and also getting something out of Mighty Destroyers, which....shhh...don't tell anyone else...you can do multiple times on the same unit.

Artillery seems like the best ally choice in my mind (interested to hear Kieran give us a breakdown of how the Troggoth Hag went though). I went with Spear Chukkas because I could use my cool Brute crossbowmen models, but there are other options. Target priority is the number one thing here and I suspect all the reports I've heard of them being rubbish come as a result of poor decision making.

15 minutes ago, meet.the.doctor said:

I am curious what are the Bonesplitterz list apart from Arrow Boyz. Any Allied monsters? ;)

Nicky was mostly arrow boys, but Ian opts for a bit of a mix with some boarboys. I don't know if Nicky comes on here (perhaps Paul can give him a friendly nudge), but Ian does and can probably share some thoughts for us.

**EDIT - he's already done it @Kanamorf**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

On turn 1, the Changeling stole Foot of Gork, cast it using destiny dice and promptly inflicted 12 mortal wounds on my Maw-krusha before it moved (I managed to dab 2 away), The Changeling then charged one of my Spear Chukkas and used more destiny dice to ensure that he wiped out the crew. This was Duality of Death, so the combination of crippling the Maw-krusha and severely reducing my ability to pick of his characters made this series of moves a masterstroke on @Superpotts part and nearly won him the game! He actually apologised afterwards, but I told he shouldn't as it was utterly amazing and is the best that Foot of Gork has ever done on my table!!! xD

**EDIT**

Oh wait, you asked about game 3. The above was game 2. In game 3 my opponent @Ralphy99 (a Destruction turncoat actually! ;))  had two turns before my first one thanks to the Engine of the Gods! :o The extra turn is devastating enough but is bearable, its the fact you score two full rounds of objectives that really hurt. Was still a good game and again its another fun story to tell isn't it.

I like big moments in Warhammer, they tend to be the things I remember...both of the above qualify :) 

Both sound fun, albeit frustrating :D

I watched Tzeench for the first time on warhammer tv last week, and they seem crazy powerful even without this spell-stealing and dice-swapping shenanigans. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mawkrusha with ironclad was again magnificent, the mystic shield really is important though I can't stress that enough! Sometimesyou just have to go without it, and sometimes you have to hold back if it doesn't go off really depends on what your facing. 

I took meatrippa and as already alluded to elsewhere I only fought one army that it really helped me on (well I did Smash a bloodthirster for 6 wounds from the choppa thanks to it ;-) however the army I did use it for were the frostheart Phoenix's with 3+ armour saves and while I lost the game because I couldn't get them down on the duality of death in time- longer story but not really relevant, I did wipe out the army except a wizard on a balewind and only lost 5 brutes! This was because everything was shooting and magicing the Mawkrusha and troggoth Hag (neither died btw) as these were the main threats perceived by opponent (the 10 brutes took down the Dragonlord easily as a result!) 

the other thing I did more with the Mawkrusha and troggoth Hag combo (though really it's not her more just whatever allied shooting you take) was to both shoot a target first together to soften it up for destructive bulk. Didnt always come off by when it did helped get the Krusha into places the opponent wasn't expecting as well as combo charging 3 times over 2 times :-) 

the Troggoth Hag was really good, she didn't die once over the 5 games and in two cases taken down to 1 or 2 wounds left only to heal back up over a double turn. Her shooting is strong (if somewhat short ranged) I did miss the +1 to cast on the Weirdnob failing mystic shield 3 times in a row on a 5 roll :-(

she did however tank a mourngul in 2 games taking the monster down both times and ending the game barley scratched thanks to her healing, the shooting and attacks while not great on a mourngul when they get thru really hurt it (D3 or 3 damage) augment that with arcane bolts and it's a great way to neuter what is often the main threat piece in a nighthaunt army. 

In one game she got charged by 2Oish bloodletters (with bloodsecrator banner down) and they managed to do 11 wounds to her thanks to her -1 to hit!) taking that charge meant the Mawkrusha lived to then countercharge the whole lot off the board next turn (after combo charging thru a blood reaver and a bloodsecrator ;-)

overall its the strongest IJ list I have played with (even more than the masters Megabrutes!) the late addition of 2 warchanters for 5 brutes was a godsend and I'm glad that both me and Chris independently reached the same conclusion as I think they make a huge diffence. (5 Brutes with frenzy killed 4 spirit hosts in one charge one game!) 

in the games I lost one was a freak string of saves over 3 combat rounds on the 2 frostheart Phoenix that cost me that game,,and against @Kanamorf we both had a fantastic game with great luck spikes each (12" charge to keep me in the game, roll a 3 or less to keep 3 boars alive for Ian to capture my 4pt objective T5 for the win- one of my top ever games of AoS btw and in both games I could see a path to victory that wasn't based on the ironjawz having an inferior army (if that makes sense) 

its what keeps me coming back to them they CAN do well (4th place for @Chris Tomlin proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt- well done brah!) I'd like to see us fight a murderhost, changehost and the new liberator vanguard exploit but Ironjawz at least are as strong as Eva!,

 

#BRUTES!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

On turn 1, the Changeling stole Foot of Gork, cast it using destiny dice and promptly inflicted 12 mortal wounds on my Maw-krusha before it moved (I managed to dab 2 away), The Changeling then charged one of my Spear Chukkas and used more destiny dice to ensure that he wiped out the crew. This was Duality of Death, so the combination of crippling the Maw-krusha and severely reducing my ability to pick off his characters made this series of moves a masterstroke on @Superpotts part and nearly won him the game! He actually apologised afterwards, but I told he shouldn't as it was utterly amazing and is the best that Foot of Gork has ever done on my table!!! xD

**EDIT**

Oh wait, you asked about game 3. The above was game 2. In game 3 my opponent @Ralphy99 (a Destruction turncoat actually! ;))  had two turns before my first one thanks to the Engine of the Gods! :o The extra turn is devastating enough but is bearable, its the fact you score two full rounds of objectives that really hurt. Was still a good game and again its another fun story to tell isn't it.

I like big moments in Warhammer, they tend to be the things I remember...both of the above qualify :) 

Holy ******!

Sounds like both your opponents had some truly epic moments. While unfortunate in a tournament setting, it still sounds really memorable and epic! Weird stuff like that is what makes this game awesome.

Good to hear that you are getting some good use out of Smashing & Bashing. It seemed like it would be tricky to pull off, but devastating when it goes through. I was hoping to see Ironjaws get a boost in the rankings once players adapted to the new rules and play style. Hopefully you are the first of many to start doing well with it.

Over all I am happy with the rankings. I feel like both armies are solid tier 2. Not as high up as Tzeentch or mixed order/chaos, but still able to place well. Which is a good place to be. The real surrise is the under representation of Beastclaw raiders. While it did take a hit with Stone horns, I would have thought allies would at least make the allegiance viable, and close to on par with the other destruction books. Hopefully this is just an over reaction to the changes made to it, and not an indication of it' long term health.

Now I am curious as to how many Flesh Eater cults were at the tourney and how they preformed. With the changes, it seems like they have enjoyed a massive surge in popularity in recent events.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, meet.the.doctor said:

I am curious what are the Bonesplitterz list apart from Arrow Boyz. Any Allied monsters? ;)

I was "unfortunate" enough to face Nicky at Blackout with my Stormcast. I can't speak for his heroes but he definitely using 4 units of 30 Arrow Boyz and then buffed them with some hero phase shooting shennanigans with far too many rerolls for me to pay attention to. I just watched him roll dice as my army just withered away.

If you're planning on doing it, bring dice. At one points I watched him roll 50 to wound dice... (Yes I'm still a little salty)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to know the Hag lived up to expectations, the combo with the MK is also really nice perk I hadn't thought of! Do you think we will end up running a 2nd wizard with her or is it just to expensive?

It's great to get feedback and to see IJ doing well, gives me hope for the future. Did either of you use Goregruntas and what was your opinions if you did, worth the cost or just outclassed by other units still?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 destruction in top 8, and then everyone else getting mostly crunched, what interesting results!

In MtG results like this meant either an underpowered list played by 10 normal people and one master of the deck who climbs into top8, or a deck that has some very polarizing matchups where one guy was lucky enough to dodge the bad matchups and smash the good ones. Could also be a list with a very unforgiving skill floor, where it's very difficult to play well and only the best tend to succeed. Besides simple variance, of course.

New Ironjawz have a lot of fiddly moving parts, but if you're lucky enough and/or tactically genius enough for the stars to align you can chain combo a devastating phase or two.

Seems to play like how the results ended up: On average disappointing, but 1 out of 7 times or so it's gigantically hype wwe power KOs!

Edit: that isn't exactly a criticism. Unreliable but overpowered is a legitimate alternative to safe and powerful, provided they're properly balanced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

@Kanamorf what do you think of a 400pt unit of big stabbas. You could give them +1 to hit and charge and move them a bit with hand of gork. 

I prefer units of 2. With 2 you do not really have to worry about Battleshock and the only way that stikkas are bad is if they get shot and run away. 4 units of 2 is something I have done many times and it just creates one of two things: Against people who know what they do they create big areas of no go zones for monsters, against people who have no idea what they do they create a dead monster.

Also if you are taking 400pts of stikkas I would argue you are better off with 3 units and the teef rukk. Put stickas near the thing that people want to kill and if they use a monster to try and kill it then it will be dead in your next turn. In your hero phase put on the +1 to hit buff, then use the battalion to pile in 6" to the monster that is challenging you and fight. If it is not dead use your prophets command ability to pile in and fight again, then if its still not dead try again in the combat phase. 3 Units of 2 deployed ~10 inches apart covers a lot of the board. I suspect a unit of 8 may be overkill, however you now have me thinking how much fun it could be. 16 attacks, with the buff 3 to hit 3 to wound thats getting close to 10 wounds at -2 rend..... thats a decent change of 30 wounds........ Overkill against every monster in the game given the additional monster damage but vs infantry? Excuse me while I go write a list :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Good to know the Hag lived up to expectations, the combo with the MK is also really nice perk I hadn't thought of! Do you think we will end up running a 2nd wizard with her or is it just to expensive?

It's great to get feedback and to see IJ doing well, gives me hope for the future. Did either of you use Goregruntas and what was your opinions if you did, worth the cost or just outclassed by other units still?

 

Actually I have thought about it as it would allow consistent use of arcane bolt/foot/puke or the troggoth own spell as well as the vital mystic shield 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@svnvaldez 

That has some harder counters than my normal list but would be a blast to run

 

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint 
- Artefact: Glowin Tattooz 
Wardokk (100)
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask 

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (320)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (320)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
- Bonesplitterz Battleline

Units
8 x Savage Big Stabbas (400)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow...this gives hope :). Gratz to you Chris T! Just this past weekend I was at a local tournament when I scored 3 loses (1 minor, 2 majors) with my IJ. I was 'lucky' enough to play 3 games against Seraphons. I reviewed what I did, and it surely was some bad decision-making, but still I was not sure if my IJ can compete with such lists: like 40 saurus teleporting in front of you, or Fyreslayers 2x30 doing similar...

I will keep on trying now... :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, a very quick rundown of my weekend with Beastclaw. Firstly, I ended as Best Beastclaw for the weekend. But that was due to me being the ONLY Beastclaw player. Also as far as I could see I was the only player with Beastclaw monsters - I didn't see any other Thundertusks, and NO Stonehorns (others will correct me as I may have just not noticed them). I knew my list was sub-optimal, and I took it as I thought it would be fun to play, and indeed it was fun. But unfortunately it was quite a way off the meta. I took:
Huskard on Thudertusk
Huskard on Thundertusk
Icebrow Hunter
Thundertusk Beastriders
2 x 2 Mournfang
1 x 3 Yhettees
3 x 20 Gnoblar Grots
The basic idea was to use the grots to screen the Thundertusks while they shot off whatever needed to die and the mournfang and yhettes run onto objectives, and hunter drops wherever he is needed most.
Game 1 was Knife to the Heart vs a vanilla Stormcast list. I was never gonna get the major (grots would never get over to his objective) so played for the minor and it all went to plan. So I was thinking the list was OK.
Game 2 Duality of Death vs. Stormcast Aetherstrike list. Never played against them before, but had a rough idea how they play. Now let me say at this point that I have picked up quite a reputation for rolling dice poorly over the last few years. In my book slightly below average is a good result for me. However, once again I exceeded expectations in this game. The first 11 rolls of the dice I rolled 9, yes nine, ones. This meant, no everwinter move, and no long runs, so failed to get onto objectives. Oh, and of course managed 1 out of 2 shots with Frosty breath. However, as soon as it was opponents turn I was rolling 2's and 3's for my armour saves. Lost beastriders, yhettees, 40 grots by end of turn 1. He then double turned me of course (I rolled a 1 for priority, I'm sure you'd guessed that already - it was one of those games). Despite all this in my turn I got a Huskard on one objective the same turn he got his Stardrake on the other so were scoring equally. I realised I just had to win on kill points for the win. Turn 3 and 4 went well - killed off the last of his shooty stuff. But right at end of turn 4 he killed a mournfang, so I had to take a battleshock for the other. Rolled a 6. No problem, got the banner, so rereolled it, and...... a 6. Mournfang gone. Turn 5 I'm 100 points behind and his Knight Venator (120 points) has 1 wound left. Hunter fires crossbow - misses. Hunter throws spear, misses. Launch one vulture, misses. Launch other vulture, misses. No problem, still got a Frosty breath in range...........rolled a 1. I really need to give up dice games. This was my favourite game of the weekend, lots of fun, swung back and forwards, and I gave James my best opponent vote.
Game 3 Total Conquest against the spare army played by Byron from the Facehammer Podcast. He had a list with 2 Frostheart Phoenixes lots of wizards and a Dragon. I totally and utterly miscalculated what his list could do. Byron knows this army inside out and plays it like clockwork. I foolishly gave him 1st turn - the phoenixes were +4 to their armour save instantly (the spell buffs stack), he pushed them forward with a summoned vortex and was into me turn one. I died. He didn't. I think if we played again, I would do better, as I deployed like a total noob and could have held him off for longer. But we talked about it afterwards and of course the phoenixes have a 4+ save to mortals, so it's just a horrid matchup for my list.
Game 4 Battle for the Pass vs mixed Chaos with 2 x 30 bloodletters with a Bloodthirster that lets them run and charge, and a whippy guy, and a banner guy. My wound output is high quality mortal wounds, but it takes so long to chew through 60 immune to battleshock bloodletters. Oh, did I mention the tunnelling Stormfiends? Or the Gaunt summoner? I took off most of his army, but it was way way too late and he won by a massive margin on objectives.
Game 5 Starstrike vs my mate Mark with his Syvaneth. My dice tried to get the better of me again (rolled three ones with first 5 frosty breaths, then turn 4 rolled 2 ones from the three shots) but I gave them a stiff talking to and they settled back down to being merely poor. I had this one won when I won priority turn 5, and then right at the death forgot what I was doing and shot off the kurnoth hunter I needed to double 3" charge to outnumber him on the crucial objective and outscore him. Man, I am so dumb sometimes! Still it meant Mark had a good win last game, and as he was supposed to be giving me a lift home it was probably for the best (I may have been walking home if I'd beat him).

Facehammer 2 was great. Even though I did even worse than last year! I did get a painting nomination, so went home happy. With regards to Beastclaw in the meta. They are still TONS of fun to play. I just love the playstyle. Having the grots as a screen was a big help. But they die in droves - the bonesplitter warriors I used to use were so much more resilient. Low model numbers is a major handicap in objective based games. Lack of resilient units (both Ttusks and Stonehorns are so vulnerable to 1 damage shooting) also a major problem. The 6 mortal wound shooting attack from Ttusks is still awesome and inspires fear in opponents (very useful). Healing units is fab. Having so much of our (limited) ordinary damage output on a 4+ with no integral way of buffing any of the units means that they miss when it's important not to, this means Yhettes, Mournfang, Hunter, and even Stonehorns whiff their attacks so much of the time, you just can't rely on them.
Ironjaws and Bonesplitterz are definitely where it's at for Destruction. I think @heywoah_twitch has a very interesting perspective on them, and is very likely right. There was a Gutbuster list there doing OK (Mike Thomas?) so maybe some mileage there (he too had 60 gnoblar grots - when was the last time you saw ANY on the table. That's how desperate Ogors have got ^_^).
Finally, I'm still convinced there must be a grot list (of one of the three flavours) that can be consistently up with the big boys. Once Grots and Ogors have their new battletomes we'll show these Johnny come lately's how AoS is really played.
At the end of the event I was feeling pretty down about Beastclaws and as @Chris Tomlin said above I am likely to try a different army soon. However, I've slept on it now, so don't be surprised if you come across my Beastclaws running at you on a table near you soon!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Soup Dragon said:

So, a very quick rundown of my weekend with Beastclaw. Firstly, I ended as Best Beastclaw for the weekend. But that was due to me being the ONLY Beastclaw player. Also as far as I could see I was the only player with Beastclaw monsters - I didn't see any other Thundertusks, and NO Stonehorns (others will correct me as I may have just not noticed them). I knew my list was sub-optimal, and I took it as I thought it would be fun to play, and indeed it was fun. But unfortunately it was quite a way off the meta. I took:
Huskard on Thudertusk
Huskard on Thundertusk
Icebrow Hunter
Thundertusk Beastriders
2 x 2 Mournfang
1 x 3 Yhettees
3 x 20 Gnoblar Grots
The basic idea was to use the grots to screen the Thundertusks while they shot off whatever needed to die and the mournfang and yhettes run onto objectives, and hunter drops wherever he is needed most.
Game 1 was Knife to the Heart vs a vanilla Stormcast list. I was never gonna get the major (grots would never get over to his objective) so played for the minor and it all went to plan. So I was thinking the list was OK.
Game 2 Duality of Death vs. Stormcast Aetherstrike list. Never played against them before, but had a rough idea how they play. Now let me say at this point that I have picked up quite a reputation for rolling dice poorly over the last few years. In my book slightly below average is a good result for me. However, once again I exceeded expectations in this game. The first 11 rolls of the dice I rolled 9, yes nine, ones. This meant, no everwinter move, and no long runs, so failed to get onto objectives. Oh, and of course managed 1 out of 2 shots with Frosty breath. However, as soon as it was opponents turn I was rolling 2's and 3's for my armour saves. Lost beastriders, yhettees, 40 grots by end of turn 1. He then double turned me of course (I rolled a 1 for priority, I'm sure you'd guessed that already - it was one of those games). Despite all this in my turn I got a Huskard on one objective the same turn he got his Stardrake on the other so were scoring equally. I realised I just had to win on kill points for the win. Turn 3 and 4 went well - killed off the last of his shooty stuff. But right at end of turn 4 he killed a mournfang, so I had to take a battleshock for the other. Rolled a 6. No problem, got the banner, so rereolled it, and...... a 6. Mournfang gone. Turn 5 I'm 100 points behind and his Knight Venator (120 points) has 1 wound left. Hunter fires crossbow - misses. Hunter throws spear, misses. Launch one vulture, misses. Launch other vulture, misses. No problem, still got a Frosty breath in range...........rolled a 1. I really need to give up dice games. This was my favourite game of the weekend, lots of fun, swung back and forwards, and I gave James my best opponent vote.
Game 3 Total Conquest against the spare army played by Byron from the Facehammer Podcast. He had a list with 2 Frostheart Phoenixes lots of wizards and a Dragon. I totally and utterly miscalculated what his list could do. Byron knows this army inside out and plays it like clockwork. I foolishly gave him 1st turn - the phoenixes were +4 to their armour save instantly (the spell buffs stack), he pushed them forward with a summoned vortex and was into me turn one. I died. He didn't. I think if we played again, I would do better, as I deployed like a total noob and could have held him off for longer. But we talked about it afterwards and of course the phoenixes have a 4+ save to mortals, so it's just a horrid matchup for my list.
Game 4 Battle for the Pass vs mixed Chaos with 2 x 30 bloodletters with a Bloodthirster that lets them run and charge, and a whippy guy, and a banner guy. My wound output is high quality mortal wounds, but it takes so long to chew through 60 immune to battleshock bloodletters. Oh, did I mention the tunnelling Stormfiends? Or the Gaunt summoner? I took off most of his army, but it was way way too late and he won by a massive margin on objectives.
Game 5 Starstrike vs my mate Mark with his Syvaneth. My dice tried to get the better of me again (rolled three ones with first 5 frosty breaths, then turn 4 rolled 2 ones from the three shots) but I gave them a stiff talking to and they settled back down to being merely poor. I had this one won when I won priority turn 5, and then right at the death forgot what I was doing and shot off the kurnoth hunter I needed to double 3" charge to outnumber him on the crucial objective and outscore him. Man, I am so dumb sometimes! Still it meant Mark had a good win last game, and as he was supposed to be giving me a lift home it was probably for the best (I may have been walking home if I'd beat him).

Facehammer 2 was great. Even though I did even worse than last year! I did get a painting nomination, so went home happy. With regards to Beastclaw in the meta. They are still TONS of fun to play. I just love the playstyle. Having the grots as a screen was a big help. But they die in droves - the bonesplitter warriors I used to use were so much more resilient. Low model numbers is a major handicap in objective based games. Lack of resilient units (both Ttusks and Stonehorns are so vulnerable to 1 damage shooting) also a major problem. The 6 mortal wound shooting attack from Ttusks is still awesome and inspires fear in opponents (very useful). Healing units is fab. Having so much of our (limited) ordinary damage output on a 4+ with no integral way of buffing any of the units means that they miss when it's important not to, this means Yhettes, Mournfang, Hunter, and even Stonehorns whiff their attacks so much of the time, you just can't rely on them.
Ironjaws and Bonesplitterz are definitely where it's at for Destruction. I think @heywoah_twitch has a very interesting perspective on them, and is very likely right. There was a Gutbuster list there doing OK (Mike Thomas?) so maybe some mileage there (he too had 60 gnoblar grots - when was the last time you saw ANY on the table. That's how desperate Ogors have got ^_^).
Finally, I'm still convinced there must be a grot list (of one of the three flavours) that can be consistently up with the big boys. Once Grots and Ogors have their new battletomes we'll show these Johnny come lately's how AoS is really played.
At the end of the event I was feeling pretty down about Beastclaws and as @Chris Tomlin said above I am likely to try a different army soon. However, I've slept on it now, so don't be surprised if you come across my Beastclaws running at you on a table near you soon!

Your list is pretty close to what I was imaging the new beast claw as looking like. What tweaks would you make to make it more competitive?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Sheriff said:

What I don't get is that Moonclan were the winners of the big tournament right before GH2017, and haven't really changed since... so was expecting more people jumping on the squig bandwagon. Nope!

 

 

That's the thing though, they have changed massively.  As they used the GA Destruction allegiance, and that is significantly worse now.

The best things about it were Rampaging Destroyers (nerfed), Ravager (nerfed), Bellowing Tyrant (nerfed), Talisman of Protection (nerfed) and Battle Brew (nerfed).

They even nerfed the stuff nobody ever used (Nothing Left Standing), just to make sure!

It's great that IJ and BS have done well at this tournament, but I think you'll be waiting a long time to see any GA Destruction competing at the pointy end unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...