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Wanderers of the Realms: A TGA Community Living Wishlist


Yeled

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1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

You completely ignore bravery.. now I don't know the values.. but I'd guess the elves have a higher one and it's a pretty major stat. An d of course or teleport ability.. which is major is something our units have and which is worth points. 

Savage orcs have high bravery in combat and it's very easy to ignore bravery with inspiring presence so yeah I ignore it.  

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Hi fellows, I'm not very knowledgeable of how Wanderers play or AoS gameplay in general but I'd like to contribute a bit. 

I have the impression that with AoS, Wanderers/Woods Elves lost what made them good in WFB: movement in all it's facets. MSU + skirmish made them hard to catch, playing with unit angles, moving behind lines to prevent marching, coordinating devasting flank charges, etc.... But I think the way AoS is designed sort of removes a good part of it by having everyone move fast (or having options to do so), being in loose unit formations and generally movement being less crucial (still important of course, yet much less than before), which is a problem for our woodies.

So in order to make them useful and retain their flavour, I think they should have access to this movement uniqueness again. My first idea would combine the AmbushesSynergy with SceneryTraps areas, focusing on "controlling/punishing enemy movement" and as a bonus, it's super fluffy! The second one follows a similar idea of movement control, but really straightfoward:

  •  Trap Field: an allegiance ability where every enemy unit moving into or inside the Wanderer territory/deployment zone takes D3 mortal wounds on a 6+. When moving into a scenary in the WE deployment zone, it's on a 4+. This could be improved by having for example a Waywatcher as general, adding +1 to the roll (they are good at setting traps!). Or if charging a Wanderer unit within their deployment zone the roll also gets a +1. Or a different approach: setting down D6 tokens 3" wide in your deployment zone which cause D6 mortal wounds when an enemy unit contacts it, so you can like force the enemy to move into a certain path if he doesn't want to trade it off for some damage. You get the idea. Movement control. Tone down as required if it seems OP. 
  •  Haze of the Forest: another allegiance ability, making every enemy unit unable to reroll or add extra inches to their base movement or run/charge roll during the first D3 turns. Or downright -2" to movement. Or anything similar. Not too OP though. You get the idea. Movement penality for a while at the start to represent the eerie and bewildering scenary with strange time warps when facing a mysterious elven foe. I like the time warp idea.... like in Athel Loren.... could come up with an idea related to it.

So yeah, basically, Woodies should be superior to everyone else movement wise to compensate the lack of everything else. And it fits their style.

I also agree with the other suggestions made, like better cavalry, archery bonus, etc... and add more units if they don't want to give back the compedium units the wanderer keyword...

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7 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I prefer having to use hero's for buffing than your example. I also think the way your idea is made up will never be used... to much one-off sort of shots which have to be remembered. 

 

When I was replying above about wyldwood rangers being a niche elite unit I first wanted to say it would be nice and maybe fluffy for EG to have like.. 2 attacks and more armor, making them elitish infantry.. then I thought.. but then they'd be much more expensive... and then I removed the line and just suggested a new infantry option. I actually think that for a shooty army it's important to have cheap roadblocks you can throw in front of the enemy. The added advantage to the EG is that they aren't JUST roadblocks.. if you can put them in cover next to an objective they are ALSO a good and CHEAP tarpit. I think EG are great: they fullfill 2 roles and they fullfill it well while still being cheap.

In the sylvaneth topic I mention I'd not use them as allies.. and I won't for that army because I think dryads are more allround troops which is valuable.. but I think our archers only need cheap units to hide behind OR EXTREMELY tough units that just will not die and will ALWAYS keep the archers save... but fluff wise that just doesn't fit with wanderers: what I describe is what you'd expect from dwarves (or stormcasts I guess). I think if you want troops like that you should just get some liberators. 

I agree on heroes. I really wish our heroes  had buffs beyond their command abilities. If each one did something different you could choose them even while keeping your Nomad Prince as your general.

I also agree on EG. Despite all that has been said about mobility, I really do think EG are a good troop. They are obviously not hit and run, but they are the unit that allows the rest of the army to stay free and clear when they need to. I wouldn't mind Fortress of Boughs to be triggered in a way other than standing still, but other than that I kinda like everything about them...especially since they are now potential battleline troops.

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Hey

Love most of what has been said so far!!!

I'm definitely not ungreatful for some stuff wanderers have either and would hate to see some of it change. GG once per game -3 is such a fun tactical ability, the baseline speed of each unit for what it is, (eg on foot unit, cavalry) is pretty acceptable I reckon, and the spellweaver revive ability and once per game unbind is pretty awesome and themey. And Waywatcher lords are still pretty boss, especially with the new star caster bow or eagle eyed command ability, really cool. 

And like I said I love what has been said about the MSU, skirmish vibe. Let's face it we love that wanderers are tactical, precise, the bad boy Aelfs that are entwined with the thickest of forests, one with nature and the wild beasts of the woods, agile, ruthless with a bow but still have a love for Living things. And yeah if they had some other additional shooting buffs or stats, that would make them renowned and feared again like has been said (-3 rend still pretty wicked).

But my biggest thing is that they are really one dimensional now that wood elves are no longer wanderers. I don't hate that they necessarily did this but we need some things as a replacement. The allies stuff is great but there is just one too many gaps that need to be filled with 400 points. We have no monsters, no inspirational leaders, ie nothing more than 100pts or that is just a wicked model, no artillery units and, our expensive 'other units' are slightly over pointed for what they actually offer to be different. Again physically one dimensional aswell, not one model would be taller or wider than 2" so a bit uninteresting, which is heart ache because wanderers should be soooo cool and mysterious in my opinion and a real spectical to look at. 

Give us our connection with the animals of the woods again. We need our dragon back (hopefully with sporific breath ability again cause that is super tactically fun aswell), a brand new fire drake model birthed from the deepest depths of the forests. Or a huge saber tooth rider, or the coolest looking eagle riding lady, or a bear riding spellweaver... you get the idea. I love that we are friends with the trees again (allies with sylvaneth) but we need our beasts back. 

Please revamp us. Wanderers are actually such a cool people and GWS has made such a good start with the new allegiance abilities. Love the work. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, VBS said:

Hi fellows, I'm not very knowledgeable of how Wanderers play or AoS gameplay in general but I'd like to contribute a bit. 

I have the impression that with AoS, Wanderers/Woods Elves lost what made them good in WFB: movement in all it's facets. MSU + skirmish made them hard to catch, playing with unit angles, moving behind lines to prevent marching, coordinating devasting flank charges, etc.... But I think the way AoS is designed sort of removes a good part of it by having everyone move fast (or having options to do so), being in loose unit formations and generally movement being less crucial (still important of course, yet much less than before), which is a problem for our woodies.

So in order to make them useful and retain their flavour, I think they should have access to this movement uniqueness again. My first idea would combine the AmbushesSynergy with SceneryTraps areas, focusing on "controlling/punishing enemy movement" and as a bonus, it's super fluffy! The second one follows a similar idea of movement control, but really straightfoward:

  •  Trap Field: an allegiance ability where every enemy unit moving into or inside the Wanderer territory/deployment zone takes D3 mortal wounds on a 6+. When moving into a scenary in the WE deployment zone, it's on a 4+. This could be improved by having for example a Waywatcher as general, adding +1 to the roll (they are good at setting traps!). Or if charging a Wanderer unit within their deployment zone the roll also gets a +1. Or a different approach: setting down D6 tokens 3" wide in your deployment zone which cause D6 mortal wounds when an enemy unit contacts it, so you can like force the enemy to move into a certain path if he doesn't want to trade it off for some damage. You get the idea. Movement control. Tone down as required if it seems OP. 
  •  Haze of the Forest: another allegiance ability, making every enemy unit unable to reroll or add extra inches to their base movement or run/charge roll during the first D3 turns. Or downright -2" to movement. Or anything similar. Not too OP though. You get the idea. Movement penality for a while at the start to represent the eerie and bewildering scenary with strange time warps when facing a mysterious elven foe. I like the time warp idea.... like in Athel Loren.... could come up with an idea related to it.

So yeah, basically, Woodies should be superior to everyone else movement wise to compensate the lack of everything else. And it fits their style.

I also agree with the other suggestions made, like better cavalry, archery bonus, etc... and add more units if they don't want to give back the compedium units the wanderer keyword...

I really like Haze of the Forest, but I'd make it a potential spell or ability of a Hero unit rather than an allegiance ability. If Wanderer Wizards or someone like a Waystrider could support troops by messing with charges and movement of opposing armies, that would really help out a skirmishing army. I'd make it more targeted though. Either a single unit is effected or units within a certain range of the Waystrider or spellcaster.

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18 minutes ago, UNIBROWshapist said:

Hey

Love most of what has been said so far!!!

I'm definitely not ungreatful for some stuff wanderers have either and would hate to see some of it change. GG once per game -3 is such a fun tactical ability, the baseline speed of each unit for what it is, (eg on foot unit, cavalry) is pretty acceptable I reckon, and the spellweaver revive ability and once per game unbind is pretty awesome and themey. And Waywatcher lords are still pretty boss, especially with the new star caster bow or eagle eyed command ability, really cool. 

And like I said I love what has been said about the MSU, skirmish vibe. Let's face it we love that wanderers are tactical, precise, the bad boy Aelfs that are entwined with the thickest of forests, one with nature and the wild beasts of the woods, agile, ruthless with a bow but still have a love for Living things. And yeah if they had some other additional shooting buffs or stats, that would make them renowned and feared again like has been said (-3 rend still pretty wicked).

But my biggest thing is that they are really one dimensional now that wood elves are no longer wanderers. I don't hate that they necessarily did this but we need some things as a replacement. The allies stuff is great but there is just one too many gaps that need to be filled with 400 points. We have no monsters, no inspirational leaders, ie nothing more than 100pts or that is just a wicked model, no artillery units and, our expensive 'other units' are slightly over pointed for what they actually offer to be different. Again physically one dimensional aswell, not one model would be taller or wider than 2" so a bit uninteresting, which is heart ache because wanderers should be soooo cool and mysterious in my opinion and a real spectical to look at. 

Give us our connection with the animals of the woods again. We need our dragon back (hopefully with sporific breath ability again cause that is super tactically fun aswell), a brand new fire drake model birthed from the deepest depths of the forests. Or a huge saber tooth rider, or the coolest looking eagle riding lady, or a bear riding spellweaver... you get the idea. I love that we are friends with the trees again (allies with sylvaneth) but we need our beasts back. 

Please revamp us. Wanderers are actually such a cool people and GWS has made such a good start with the new allegiance abilities. Love the work. 

 

 

Short of a full on update, I suspect Wanderers may remain one dimensional. Even if they give us a unit or two, there isn't a lot that will change the basic one-dimensional nature of the faction. And if that's the way it's going to be, then I hope we are just really excellent at that one thing Wanderers do.

That said, the thing I take away most from your comments is the flavor (I know, Americans) you're describing. These stand out in particular:

  • tactical, precise, the bad boy Aelfs that are entwined with the thickest of forests, one with nature and the wild beasts of the woods, agile, ruthless with a bow but still have a love for Living things.
  • wanderers should be soooo cool and mysterious in my opinion and a real spectical to look at. 
  • Give us our connection with the animals of the woods again. We need our dragon back (hopefully with sporific breath ability again cause that is super tactically fun aswell), a brand new fire drake model birthed from the deepest depths of the forests. Or a huge saber tooth rider, or the coolest looking eagle riding lady, or a bear riding spellweaver... you get the idea. I love that we are friends with the trees again (allies with sylvaneth) but we need our beasts back. 

I agree. Last month, right before they removed the Compendium wood elves, I was finally adding some of those guys to my army. I went out and bought a pack of fenrisian wolves to use as Hunting Hounds (mostly because I loved the idea of summoning wolves from the forest even if they aren't a great unit). And I was converting a Sisters of the Watch into a Glade Lord on Great Stag using a thunder wolf. I'll post pictures after I paint her up.

I would love to see some savagery added into the army for flavor. I was using wolves, but any sort of feral nature type unit could work. I don't know rules-wise what I would want them for, but from a thematic perspective I love these ideas. I also love the very fae look of the Wanderers. Honestly it was the Wild Riders and the Wyldwood Rangers that drew me to the army from an aesthetic perspective. I would like to see that played up even more. Move away from traditional Tolkien style wood elves and more into scary fae using glamours to drag you back along the hidden paths into their dark forest homes.

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7 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Savage orcs have high bravery in combat and it's very easy to ignore bravery with inspiring presence so yeah I ignore it.  

The other thing about bravery is that it's so dependent on wounds. A unit with high bravery but 1 wound per model is more susceptible to battleshock than one with low bravery but high wounds per model. Ultimately bravery is important, but nearly so much as wounds.

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11 hours ago, Yeled said:

This is probably too complex for AoS, but bestowing the Glade Guard or Sisters of the Watch with the Waywatcher ability to choose two different shooting options, or something similar, could be viable.

I don't think it particularly matters what you give them, but like you say, even making it as basic as the Waywatcher ability would give them that something that I think they desperately need to be worthwhile without having to completely redo points. What I have struck on though is that there is a butt tonne of choice to give them and still be half thematic.

 

11 hours ago, Aezeal said:

When I was replying above about wyldwood rangers being a niche elite unit I first wanted to say it would be nice and maybe fluffy for EG to have like.. 2 attacks and more armor, making them elitish infantry.. then I thought.. but then they'd be much more expensive... and then I removed the line and just suggested a new infantry option. I actually think that for a shooty army it's important to have cheap roadblocks you can throw in front of the enemy. The added advantage to the EG is that they aren't JUST roadblocks.. if you can put them in cover next to an objective they are ALSO a good and CHEAP tarpit. I think EG are great: they fullfill 2 roles and they fullfill it well while still being cheap.

 I don't think you need to make a new unit, you just need to make Wyldwood Rangers more hitty against everything rather than just monsters, then you have your defensive unit (in Eternal Guard) and that hitty unit they need to be even remotely offensive.

On the subject of hitty things, Wild Riders with -1 Rend as a baseline? Asrai Spears in the past had Armour Reduction in the past so it isn't exactly a novel idea.

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7 hours ago, Nubgan said:

I don't think it particularly matters what you give them, but like you say, even making it as basic as the Waywatcher ability would give them that something that I think they desperately need to be worthwhile without having to completely redo points. What I have struck on though is that there is a butt tonne of choice to give them and still be half thematic.

 

 I don't think you need to make a new unit, you just need to make Wyldwood Rangers more hitty against everything rather than just monsters, then you have your defensive unit (in Eternal Guard) and that hitty unit they need to be even remotely offensive.

On the subject of hitty things, Wild Riders with -1 Rend as a baseline? Asrai Spears in the past had Armour Reduction in the past so it isn't exactly a novel idea.

Yeah, the thing about SotW is that they are good but need just that little extra oomph to make them worth their points. Part of the issue is that GG and Sisters are essentially the same. Obviously SotW are elite and GG are battleline, but they play the same role in our army. So you make a decision about whether it's better to have ten or twenty models at the same points, one of which does more sustained damage and the other hits harder once. If they could be differentiated a bit more to be useful in more ways it might make them more desirable to field both.

In terms of more hitty WWR and Wild Riders, I think that's probably what both units need. I noted in the first post that we though the Wild Riders should have -1 rend on the charge to go along with +1 to wound, as well as have the ability to Melt Away out of combat and then charge again that same turn. That would make them very fast light cavalry capable of punching something in the face and then moving away before they get too decimated, or engage another foe that was moving too close to the archers.

I'm going to probably post a unit by unit wish list under what we currently have in the first post, and stressing that WWR and Wild Riders need to be our hitty units is near the top of what I'd personally like to see. Rather than lowering their points to make them more of a value, I would rather see them become more efficient at what they do. Let WWR do d3 damage against everything, not just monsters. Or give them the ability to move to their targets without being at risk of being killed before they get there.

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Ideas for existing non-hero Wanderer units. Please react:

Archers

Glade Guard. GG should be our baseline archers. Ideally these are small bands of mobile, low armor troops with decent range. Overall these guys are pretty decent as is. Suggestions for making them fit with the new allegiance abilities and the themes described above/in first post:

  • Make the Wanderers an elite archer army by giving them a baseline 3+ to hit.
  • Don't require us to have large units of these guys. Instead, encourage us to use larger numbers of GG units that synergize with other units of GG or heroes. For example, give them a buff when they target a unit that another Wanderer unit already targeted in a single shooting phase.

Sisters of the Watch. Our elite archers do not unfortunately mesh with the new allegiance abilities as we rarely stand still if we can avoid it. As a result they are not a good choice when you can have 2x as many GG for about the same cost. But these should be an obvious choice for a Wanderer army, representing the very best of Wanderer archery the way Brutes and Palladins represent the best of what Ironjawz and Stormcast do, respectively. To make them fill that role consider the following: 

  • Remove the requirement to stand still in order to get the second attack in the shooting phase. This buff does not work with the new allegiance abilities and people are dripping the unit from their Wanderer lists as a result. Instead, either give them a straight second shot or find another trigger. Examples could be giving them an extra attack if they used the Realm Wanderers teleport during the movement phase that turn, by being close to a waywatcher lord, when they are shooting at an enemy unit engaged in close combat with another Wanderer unit, or when they target an enemy unit that was already targeted by a Wanderer unit during the shooting phase.
  • Why do the Sisters of the Watch hit better against chaos? That seems like a holdover from when they were Sisters of Avelorn. Consider making that more equal across the board in terms of hitting other armies. Perhaps one of the ideas listed above could trigger a +1 to hit.

Close Combat Hitters

Wyldwood Rangers. The WWR are really the only true hitty unit we have. They have a good stat-line with a killer buff against monsters. But muscle of our army doesn't stack up compared to other elite hitty units. Executioners, for example, are the same points but are much more devastating. And with a save of 5+, the Rangers tend to die before they can really do their thing. The D3 against monsters is meaningless if we can't get the WWR to the monsters in the first place. If they do manage to get to their target, they probably die anyway. Glass cannons with no range. To fix this:

  • Make the WWR masters of moving about without being engagable.  It would be kind of cool if they were really hard to pin down until they wanted to engage in combat. WWR's want to fight monsters and not get killed before they do. To represent their ability to move about unseen, perhaps they can declare they are moving unseen in the hero phase. If they do this, they are -1 to hit in the shooting phase, can't charge that turn, but the enemy can't charge them either. Alternatively, once you declare a charge against them you need to roll a 4 or higher (+1 if they are in a forest or some other type of cover to represent synergy with scenery).  Otherwise they slip by you and you can't charge them that round.
  • The D3 against monsters is nice, but it makes WWR a very specialized unit. Consider making them a bit more flexible. This is less important than the bullet above.

Wild Riders. Fast light cavalry that can run and charge in the same turn. These guys have excellent range, but they lack punch. Next to Goregruntas, which cost the same points now, they are a bit underwhelming. Our suggestions are to keep the Wild Riders mostly the same in terms of their niche and abilities, but make them even better at lightning strike blitzes:

  • Wild Riders should have -1 rend on the charge to go along with +1 to wound.
  • Keeping with the Melt Away allegiance ability and the skirmishing theme described above, let Wild Riders Melt Away out of combat and then charge again that same turn. That would make them very fast light cavalry capable of punching something in the face and then moving away before they get too decimated, or engage another foe that was moving too close to the archers.
  • Consider giving these deer riders a 14" move.

Support

Eternal Guard. Eternal Guard are our blockers, keeping the archers free of enemy units and probably the only non-hero Wanderer unit where the points seem like a really good value. Just "guys" when on the move, they turn into elite soldiers when they don't move for an entire turn. In the old gunline style of play these were a no brainer, and I find it hard to offer constructive criticism because they were such a good value. The problem is that, again, we don't want to stand still. So while the +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and +1 to save Fortress of Boughs is great, it's still encouraging a play style that seems pre-GH2017.

  • The only suggestion here is to somehow come up with a different trigger for the buffing that doesn't involve standing still. As our blockers they need to come with the archers when we use the Realm Wanderer teleport, but when they do they die in droves. To encourage this role as protectors, perhaps we could trigger the buffs when Wanderer archer units are within a certain range of them. It could be quite close, like 3".

Sisters of the Thorn. These very expensive wizard/cavalry are really exceptional for their Shield of Thorns spell. It's especially devastating when stacked with cover, mystic shield, and/or the Eternal Guard Fortress of Boughs ability to buff up when standing still. Due to the new allegiance abilities, however, EG are standing still a lot less frequently than they once were. I've heard a couple Wanderer players suggest they don't want to bring these any more because they aren't used as much.

  • These guys can probably stay the same as they are a good unit. Consider lowering the points significantly since they aren't even close to Palladors for the same points, and the one thing they do really well (the Shield of Thorns) is a good but not great spell in our lists given the changes to play style brought by allegiance abilities.
  • If you give the Wild Riders a 14" move, do the same here.
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22 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

@Yeled The sisters of the thorn cast shield of thorns. Fortress of boughs is the eternal guards ability ;)

:P I knew that. I was thinking about how it worked well with Fortress of Boughs and typed the wrong thing. Will fix. Thanks!

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17 hours ago, Yeled said:

Don't require us to have large units of these guys. Instead, encourage us to use larger numbers of GG units that synergize with other units of GG or heroes. For example, give them a buff when they target a unit that another Wanderer unit already targeted in a single shooting phase.

I like this one.

 

17 hours ago, Yeled said:

Consider giving these deer riders a 14" move.

They are fast enough with their run and charge option.

 

17 hours ago, Yeled said:

Make the WWR masters of moving about without being engagable.

nah this is nothing. They are monster fighters and don't need another thing added to that. lower points would be the only thing I'd like :D

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On 7-9-2017 at 9:20 AM, Nubgan said:

I don't think it particularly matters what you give them, but like you say, even making it as basic as the Waywatcher ability would give them that something that I think they desperately need to be worthwhile without having to completely redo points. What I have struck on though is that there is a butt tonne of choice to give them and still be half thematic.

 

 I don't think you need to make a new unit, you just need to make Wyldwood Rangers more hitty against everything rather than just monsters, then you have your defensive unit (in Eternal Guard) and that hitty unit they need to be even remotely offensive.

On the subject of hitty things, Wild Riders with -1 Rend as a baseline? Asrai Spears in the past had Armour Reduction in the past so it isn't exactly a novel idea.

I'd say we just need poison weapons working like excutioners. on a 6 to hit make it deal a mortal wound, give that to one of our archers too.

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4 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I like this one.

 

They are fast enough with their run and charge option.

 

nah this is nothing. They are monster fighters and don't need another thing added to that. lower points would be the only thing I'd like :D

Fair enough on the Wild Riders move. On the WWRs, however, I really think they'd be a much better unit if they had some means of avoiding conflict until they were ready to engage. Plus it's thematic. I don't mind paying premium, elite points cost if we got the value out of it.

4 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I'd say we just need poison weapons working like excutioners. on a 6 to hit make it deal a mortal wound, give that to one of our archers too.

Mortal wounds on 6 for archers is really quite powerful. If you look at Tzeentch Skyfires, they do mortal wounds with their bows but only have a single shot each. If you gave Sisters of the Watch the capacity to inflict mortal wounds on 6+, for example, you'd have 10 or 20 shots each turn, and possibly more with the Pathfinders battalion. I think it would be too much because of the range and flexibility that shooting brings over close combat.

If I were going to give a unit the capacity to do mortal wounds I'd either make it a close combat unit like WWR or I'd make a new type of archer that is high cost and low numbers. I'd also not have it be poison in terms of the fluff. That seems too gobliny or skink. Rather than poison I'd like to see some kind of hero with a cursed arrow that has some other effect. I've been thinking about glamours ever since it was mentioned above, and that got me thinking about the idea of fae magic. A cursed arrow seems to have a place in the theme.

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6 hours ago, Yeled said:

If I were going to give a unit the capacity to do mortal wounds I'd either make it a close combat unit like WWR

Then I'd go for the wild riders (which is what I actually meant to say in my last post). I agree that MW on 6's on cheap GG is a bit too much. However on Sisters of the watch it's less of a problem, remember their range is much less than the skyfires and their 2 shots isn't standard (and I'm not saying their points should remain the same either).

 

6 hours ago, Yeled said:

On the WWRs, however, I really think they'd be a much better unit if they had some means of avoiding conflict until they were ready to engage. Plus it's thematic. I don't mind paying premium, elite points cost if we got the value out of it.

I dislike clumping more abilities and specific traits on a unit. IF they need to be more general combat troops I'd just say: make them standard D3 wounds and be done with it. More damage than most elites but also less armor. I fear their current points would be too low for this though.

 

6 hours ago, Yeled said:

I'd also not have it be poison in terms of the fluff. That seems too gobliny or skink.

I see what you mean.. but ambushing, striking for afar and poison do make a logical triad. (all frowned upon my the "mighty warrior" types).

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The Skaven Chieftain has a nice ability that suits ambushing wanderers. After he attacks roll a dice. on a 4+ he can retreat before any blows are struck against him. Something like that fits with Wood E..Wanderers. 

Another thing to consider is wanderers dont seem to be just woodland loving fae types anymore. Eternal guard would look comfortable in a High Born army as would WWR. They seem more civilised now which is a shame. I still love the new models so not complaining (New as in last 4 yrs anyway :) ).

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7 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Then I'd go for the wild riders (which is what I actually meant to say in my last post). I agree that MW on 6's on cheap GG is a bit too much. However on Sisters of the watch it's less of a problem, remember their range is much less than the skyfires and their 2 shots isn't standard (and I'm not saying their points should remain the same either).

Yeah, you'd have to raise SotW points and they are already expensive at 220 pts. I think they could stand to be a little more elite than they are now, especially since their double attack is only triggered by not moving (something we don't really want them to do anymore). But I don't want to pay more pts for them at this point.

I think MW would be better on Wild Riders. I suggested +1 to wound and -1 rend on the charge, but getting rid of charge buffs but adding MWs on 6+ on charges could work as well. Honestly it doesn't feel quite right to me, but I understand it.

7 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I dislike clumping more abilities and specific traits on a unit. IF they need to be more general combat troops I'd just say: make them standard D3 wounds and be done with it. More damage than most elites but also less armor. I fear their current points would be too low for this though.

Clumping abilities on units is what GW does to all new models. It's only the legacy models that aren't getting multiple abilities. Go take a look at a warscroll of any of the Tzeentch guys, or the Kharadron, or anything really. They all have multiple abilities.

I'm not trying to make the Wyldwood Rangers more generalist. In fact, I'm proposing the opposite. By giving them the ability to avoid engagements they prefer not to be in, you are making them a sneaky elite troop that finds its way to specific targets before destroying them. With the d3 against monsters, they are obviously going to be monster killers. This will make them more specialized, not less so.

7 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I see what you mean.. but ambushing, striking for afar and poison do make a logical triad. (all frowned upon my the "mighty warrior" types).

Definitely. I just think I would make it some kind of curse rather than "poison." Just a fluffy flavor thing, really.

5 hours ago, WABBIT said:

The Skaven Chieftain has a nice ability that suits ambushing wanderers. After he attacks roll a dice. on a 4+ he can retreat before any blows are struck against him. Something like that fits with Wood E..Wanderers. 

Another thing to consider is wanderers dont seem to be just woodland loving fae types anymore. Eternal guard would look comfortable in a High Born army as would WWR. They seem more civilised now which is a shame. I still love the new models so not complaining (New as in last 4 yrs anyway :) ).

I do like the ability the skinks have in terms of running away instead of engaging in the combat phase. I agree it kinda fits, though I don't know if I love the idea of stealing the skink's ability. 

On your second point, I agree. I would love to see them go more dark fae with the Wanderers and less Tolkien wood elves.

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Grundstock Thunderers can also retreat out of combat ( "keep your distance" ), so the skinks are not unique on this.  I would rather have this as the rule for melt away.  I wouldn't mind SotW having a choice between attacking twice if didn't move or attacking once but with -1 rend; or doing a mortal wound on a 6 or more.   A 12" range on the SotT javelins would be quite nice as well - at least they'd be able to throw them after wandering the realm. Wild Riders to be able to run after wandering the realm would make them more useful.  Basically things that synergise with the new allegiance abilities.  I don't think  we'll get new units, but they have shown that they are prepared to alter warscrolls ( see above ). I like the idea of fortress of boughs triggering in some other way so support that one.  Not sure about WWR, especially now that Dragonblades are 140. Give them -1 to hit in the shooting phase?

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Based on comments above, I'll add the skink hero ability as a suggestion in the first post. Or do you think it should go on a specific unit?

I've also incorporated your ideas into my post above. New text with revisions is below. Take a look and let me know what other comments you might have. After we are happy I'll add this to the first post as well.

 

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Ideas for existing non-hero Wanderer units. Please react:

Archers

Glade Guard. GG should be our baseline archers. Ideally these are small bands of mobile, low armor troops with decent range. Overall these guys are pretty decent as is. Suggestions for making them fit with the new allegiance abilities and the themes described above/in first post:

  • Make the Wanderers an elite archer army by giving them a baseline 3+ to hit.
  • Don't require us to have large units of these guys. Instead, encourage us to use larger numbers of GG units that synergize with other units of GG or heroes. For example, give them a buff when they target a unit that another Wanderer unit already targeted in a single shooting phase.

Sisters of the Watch. Our elite archers do not unfortunately mesh with the new allegiance abilities as we rarely stand still if we can avoid it. As a result they are not a good choice when you can have 2x as many GG for about the same cost. But these should be an obvious choice for a Wanderer army, representing the very best of Wanderer archery the way Brutes and Palladins represent the best of what Ironjawz and Stormcast do, respectively. To make them fill that role consider the following: 

  • Remove the requirement to stand still in order to get the second attack in the shooting phase. This buff does not work with the new allegiance abilities and people are dripping the unit from their Wanderer lists as a result. Instead, either give them a straight second shot or find another trigger. Examples could be giving them an extra attack if they used the Realm Wanderers teleport during the movement phase that turn, by being close to a waywatcher lord, when they are shooting at an enemy unit engaged in close combat with another Wanderer unit, or when they target an enemy unit that was already targeted by a Wanderer unit during the shooting phase.
  • Another way to handle the above, consider giving SotW a choice between attacking twice or attacking once but with -1 rend.
  • Alternatively, SotW could fire twice or only once, but if they fire once they do MW on 6+. (Our army could really use a unit with the capability of doing mortal wounds). Or perhaps they do mortal wounds in the shooting phase after they've teleported using the Realm Wanderers allegiance ability.
  • Why do the Sisters of the Watch hit better against chaos? That seems like a holdover from when they were Sisters of Avelorn. Consider making that more equal across the board in terms of hitting other armies. Perhaps one of the ideas listed above could trigger a +1 to hit.

Close Combat Hitters

Wyldwood Rangers. The WWR are really the only true hitty unit we have. They have a good stat-line with a killer buff against monsters. But muscle of our army doesn't stack up compared to other elite hitty units. Executioners, for example, are the same points but are much more devastating. And with a save of 5+, the Rangers tend to die before they can really do their thing. The D3 against monsters is meaningless if we can't get the WWR to the monsters in the first place. If they do manage to get to their target, they probably die anyway. Glass cannons with no range. To fix this:

  • Make the WWR masters of moving about without being engagable.  It would be kind of cool if they were really hard to pin down until they wanted to engage in combat. WWR's want to fight monsters and not get killed before they do. To represent their ability to move about unseen, perhaps they can declare they are moving unseen in the hero phase. If they do this, they are -1 to hit in the shooting phase, can't charge that turn, but the enemy can't charge them either. Alternatively, once you declare a charge against them you need to roll a 4 or higher (+1 if they are in a forest or some other type of cover to represent synergy with scenery).  Otherwise they slip by you and you can't charge them that round.
  • The D3 against monsters is nice, but it makes WWR a very specialized unit. Consider making them a bit more flexible. This is less important than the bullet above.

Wild Riders. Fast light cavalry that can run and charge in the same turn. These guys have excellent range, but they lack punch. Next to Goregruntas, which cost the same points now, they are a bit underwhelming. Our suggestions are to keep the Wild Riders mostly the same in terms of their niche and abilities, but make them even better at lightning strike blitzes:

  • Wild Riders should have -1 rend on the charge to go along with +1 to wound. Alternatively, you could give them the ability to do mortal wounds on the charge, though this would obviously make them more expensive and one of the better striking cavalry units.
  • Keeping with the Melt Away allegiance ability and the skirmishing theme described above, let Wild Riders Melt Away out of combat and then charge again that same turn. That would make them very fast light cavalry capable of punching something in the face and then moving away before they get too decimated, or engage another foe that was moving too close to the archers.
  • Consider giving these deer riders a 14" move.
  • Wild Riders to be able to move d6" (essentially run but not move) after using the Realm Wanderers allegiance ability, making them more likely to get into a charge position. This would enhance their fast strike cavalry role. 

Support

Eternal Guard. Eternal Guard are our blockers, keeping the archers free of enemy units and probably the only non-hero Wanderer unit where the points seem like a really good value. Just "guys" when on the move, they turn into elite soldiers when they don't move for an entire turn. In the old gunline style of play these were a no brainer, and I find it hard to offer constructive criticism because they were such a good value. The problem is that, again, we don't want to stand still. So while the +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and +1 to save Fortress of Boughs is great, it's still encouraging a play style that seems pre-GH2017.

  • The only suggestion here is to somehow come up with a different trigger for the buffing that doesn't involve standing still. As our blockers they need to come with the archers when we use the Realm Wanderer teleport, but when they do they die in droves. To encourage this role as protectors, perhaps we could trigger the buffs when Wanderer archer units are within a certain range of them. It could be quite close, like 3".

Sisters of the Thorn. These very expensive wizard/cavalry are really exceptional for their Shield of Thorns spell. It's especially devastating when stacked with cover, mystic shield, and/or the Eternal Guard Fortress of Boughs ability to buff up when standing still. Due to the new allegiance abilities, however, EG are standing still a lot less frequently than they once were. I've heard a couple Wanderer players suggest they don't want to bring these any more because they aren't used as much.

  • These guys can probably stay the same as they are a good unit. Consider lowering the points significantly since they aren't even close to Palladors for the same points, and the one thing they do really well (the Shield of Thorns) is a good but not great spell in our lists given the changes to play style brought by allegiance abilities.
  • If you give the Wild Riders a 14" move, do the same here.
  • A 12" range on the SotT javelins would be quite nice as well - at least they'd be able to throw them after using the Realm Wanderers allegiance ability. Any time we can build on the excellent allegiance ability we should consider doing it.
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First post updated. New text is in blue. I'll do suggestions on existing heroes next. If anyone wants to throw out ideas, please do. My thoughts off the top of my head:

  • Waystrider and Wayfinder are essentially useless compared to the more popular Waywatcher Lord and Nomad Prince.
  • Too many command abilities, not enough basic buffing abilities.
  • It would be nice if the two less useful heroes were given clever buffs that tie into enhancing combat (Waystrider) and Realm Wanderers movement (Wayfinder), respectively. In fact each hero should have a clear roll on the battlefield rather than degrees moving from archer to combat specialist.
  • Spellweavers are pretty good as is, though I find myself not wanting to use their spell on single wound models. I almost always save it for WR or SotT. Maybe a better way to handle it would be to return d6 wounds (rounding up) of models to life.
  • At least one hero should do MW.
  • At least one hero should buff archers.
  • At least one hero should buff close combat.
  • At least one hero should buff Realm Wanderer Movement.
  • One hero could buff survivability of other units.
  • Thematically I like the idea of glamours or trickery to fit in with the idea of fae.
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What about this as a buffing ability for the Waystrider:-

Once per battle a Waystrider and one other unit can delay returning to the board after using "Realm Wanderers" until the the start of your next movement phase.  

This would act as a stealth move that people have been asking for for WWR.  It would still restrict you to the same board edge - unless you took the Wending Wand artifact - and would give a unit of 30 WWR some viability.  I put start so that you could appear and then move.  

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42 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

What about this as a buffing ability for the Waystrider:-

Once per battle a Waystrider and one other unit can delay returning to the board after using "Realm Wanderers" until the the start of your next movement phase.  

This would act as a stealth move that people have been asking for for WWR.  It would still restrict you to the same board edge - unless you took the Wending Wand artifact - and would give a unit of 30 WWR some viability.  I put start so that you could appear and then move.  

That's interesting. So you give up a turn for them in order to appear and move in the same turn?

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How about a counter buff a as a mad idea - Wanderers ambush units attempting to teleport or move by any means other than movement. Wanderers I think are supposed to be excellent world travellers or something so maybe they can delay, redirect or cause mortal wounds to units that travel via Sylvaneth paths or whatever other teleporting abilities are out there for armies.  Its probably way too powerful but an interesting idea I think at least for a narrative/open play game maybe? :D

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9 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

How about a counter buff a as a mad idea - Wanderers ambush units attempting to teleport or move by any means other than movement. Wanderers I think are supposed to be excellent world travellers or something so maybe they can delay, redirect or cause mortal wounds to units that travel via Sylvaneth paths or whatever other teleporting abilities are out there for armies.  Its probably way too powerful but an interesting idea I think at least for a narrative/open play game maybe? :D

Warscroll battalion, maybe? Seems like you could have some thematic ability tied to some group that ambushes other armies from their "hidden paths."

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