Let's Chat: Ironweld Arsenal

[oscisi]

On 6/12/2018 at 11:18 AM, Ciliegioinfiore said:

The celestar ballista costs 100pts !

It's actually 120 points

Here's another treat: some more info that is relevant to Ironweld!

[Double Misfire]

Hi all,

Thanks to @Furuzzoloin out allied Dispossessed thread I've just learnt that we're looking at 240 point Steam Tanks, a 120 point Artillery Detachment battalion and... 

DELICIOUS 160 POINT CANNONS

 

I am so happy. Thank you playtesting team. Here's to battleline Organ Guns in 2019 ?

[oscisi]

28 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Hi all,

Thanks to @Furuzzoloin out allied Dispossessed thread I've just learnt that we're looking at 240 point Steam Tanks, a 120 point Artillery Detachment battalion and... 

DELICIOUS 160 POINT CANNONS

 

I am so happy. Thank you playtesting team. Here's to battleline Organ Guns in 2019 ?

Cool! Thanks for letting us know! Myself, I'm more of a battleline Steam Tank type of guy

[Double Misfire]

6 minutes ago, oscisi said:

Cool! Thanks for letting us know! Myself, I'm more of a battleline Steam Tank type of guy

But there are only eight of them... hang on.

Yeah, I'm all for it. If Beastclaws can rock battleline behemoths why can't we? at least theirs are good...

[Double Misfire]

Having digested the new edition a bit (full post coming when I've got the book) I think Ironweld focused forces are going to play very differently now. Gone are the days of single dogs running out to to tie up enemy units for as long as it took to shoot tiny chunks off them, we're now in the era of board clearing opening game firepower. (Assuming the Lord-Ordinator's Arcane Engineer and Rain of Fire haven't been changed to to only affect Stormcast artillery. We're Lion Rangers tier if that happens).

I'm eyeing up a 2k matched play list centred around four(!) Cannons, supported by two Ordinators, two Engineers and enough extra command points to allow both cannons to shoot twice in my first two turns (250 points worth), leaving nothing standing to oppose the relatively cheap, speedy objective grabbers (Reavers, Gryph-hounds, maybe a sneaky 240 point Steam Tank if I can squeeze it in).

 

I think that the points drop for Steam Tanks will see them become much more viable, especially as a behemoth that doesn't take up a leader slot for Three Places of Power and Duality of Death. I'd love to give a list with four in a go for funsies  

[Cinncinnatus]

13 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

I'm eyeing up a 2k matched play list centred around four(!) Cannons, supported by two Ordinators, two Engineers and enough extra command points to allow both cannons to shoot twice in my first two turns (250 points worth), leaving nothing standing to oppose the relatively cheap, speedy objective grabbers (Reavers, Gryph-hounds, maybe a sneaky 240 point Steam Tank if I can squeeze it in).

You actually can' use the Lord Ordinators CA from both models as it reads if this model is your general in the description. But the redundancy and ability to spread out the +1 to hit would still be worth it. Plus if your general died you could just pick the other Ordinator tonight be your general so your opponent would have to munch through 10 wounds to get rid of that CA.

[Furuzzolo]

@Double Misfire

I can confirm the cannon at 160 but a guy on reddit said that the SteamTank comes at 260, not 240. I'm not sure about it, it does really looks like 240 to me but maybe i'm wrong. 

[oscisi]

5 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Having digested the new edition a bit (full post coming when I've got the book) I think Ironweld focused forces are going to play very differently now. Gone are the days of single dogs running out to to tie up enemy units for as long as it took to shoot tiny chunks off them, we're now in the era of board clearing opening game firepower. (Assuming the Lord-Ordinator's Arcane Engineer and Rain of Fire haven't been changed to to only affect Stormcast artillery. We're Lion Rangers tier if that happens).

I'm eyeing up a 2k matched play list centred around four(!) Cannons, supported by two Ordinators, two Engineers and enough extra command points to allow both cannons to shoot twice in my first two turns (250 points worth), leaving nothing standing to oppose the relatively cheap, speedy objective grabbers (Reavers, Gryph-hounds, maybe a sneaky 240 point Steam Tank if I can squeeze it in).

 

I think that the points drop for Steam Tanks will see them become much more viable, especially as a behemoth that doesn't take up a leader slot for Three Places of Power and Duality of Death. I'd love to give a list with four in a go for funsies  

Another option is to still use the Ordinators but run a 2000 point list with only two cannons and a Cogsmith as allies (exactly 400 points). That way you can keep the Stormcast allegiance and get access to allegiance abilities and batallion warscrolls. 

[Double Misfire]

6 hours ago, Cinncinnatus said:

You actually can' use the Lord Ordinators CA from both models as it reads if this model is your general in the description. But the redundancy and ability to spread out the +1 to hit would still be worth it. Plus if your general died you could just pick the other Ordinator tonight be your general so your opponent would have to munch through 10 wounds to get rid of that CA.

Completely missed the Lord-Ordinator specifically needing to be your general - good spot, thanks! But yeah, the second Ordinator is mainly there as an insurance policy to ensure that I wouldn't have wasted 250 points of command points if my opponent managed to snipe a single 5 wound character.

(that and the awesome new Lord-Ordinator model)

51 minutes ago, oscisi said:

Another option is to still use the Ordinators but run a 2000 point list with only two cannons and a Cogsmith as allies (exactly 400 points). That way you can keep the Stormcast allegiance and get access to allegiance abilities and batallion warscrolls. 

Surely two cannons and a Gunmaster?  

I'd already spotted this and was going to add it to my eventual Ironweld in 2nd ed review/preliminary tactics post. Personally I'd never use it as I far prefer Dispossessed to Stormcast and would much rather my third and fourth artillery pieces were Cannons not Celestar Ballistas, but it's an option.  

[Furuzzolo]

Hi guys, i still cannot find a clear stamp of the SteamTank points cost. 

Do you have some clue? 260, 240? I'd like to try it in a test game...

[EMMachine]

@oscisi

Which book is it where the Ballista costs 120 Points?

It's 100 Points in the Generals Handbook 2018.

[oscisi]

2 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

@oscisi

Which book is it where the Ballista costs 120 Points?

It's 100 Points in the Generals Handbook 2018.

At the end of the "Battle for Glymmsforge" book.

[oscisi]

On 6/15/2018 at 5:36 PM, Double Misfire said:

Surely two cannons and a Gunmaster?  

Correct! Well spotted. With the Cogsmith it would get 20 points too expensive.

[Thankee]

My theory;

1x Ordinator gerneral

1x hurricanum +1 hit

3x10 freeguild guard

4x rocket batteries

 

Puts me at 1440points.

 

I need no line of sight with batteries and I got CPs to stack "shoot twice" on one of the batteries ELEVEN times. Which makes my turn 1 shooting phase at a whooping 15 shots.

15x3=45 shots. 45shots with 2+3+ -2 rend d6 damages is an 59-91damage output turn 1. If we guess here that what we shoot got an 6+ save.

This can only get better with the ironweld fastness ability for example.

 

[Double Misfire]

29 minutes ago, Thankee said:

I need no line of sight with batteries and I got CPs to stack "shoot twice" on one of the batteries ELEVEN times. Which makes my turn 1 shooting phase at a whooping 15 shots.

15x3=45 shots. 45shots with 2+3+ -2 rend d6 damages is an 59-91damage output turn 1. If we guess here that what we shoot got an 6+ save.

This can only get better with the ironweld fastness ability for example.

That's a lovely thought, and believe me we've all had it, but you might want to check Rain of Fire's entry on the Lord-Ordinator's warsrcroll:

"If this model is your general and uses this command ability, then pick a friendly Order War Machine that is wholly within 12" of it at the start of your shooting phase. You can fire twice with that war machine this phase"

Twice is an absolute. You can't get higher than it, can't get lower than it. Slap Rain of Fire on the same war machine as many times as you like and it's only going to fire two times a shooting phase.

Thanks for playing, and you might want to slap a Loremaster on that imaginary Helstorm! ?‍♂️

 

[Thankee]

4 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

That's a lovely thought, and believe me we've all had it, but you might want to check Rain of Fire's entry on the Lord-Ordinator's warsrcroll:

"If this model is your general and uses this command ability, then pick a friendly Order War Machine that is wholly within 12" of it at the start of your shooting phase. You can fire twice with that war machine this phase"

Twice is an absolute. You can't get higher than it, can't get lower than it. Slap Rain of Fire on the same war machine as many times as you like and it's only going to fire two times a shooting phase.

Thanks for playing, and you might want to slap a Loremaster on that imaginary Helstorm! ?‍♂️

 

Ah, that is just as well, it would have been broken. But I still consider it as very very strong. The only downside of my previous army list was that I did not get to shoot enough before the cavalry came. I can still slap it on all my 4 batteries. Which makes 8 garuanteed attacks turn 1!

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, Thankee said:

Ah, that is just as well, it would have been broken. But I still consider it as very very strong. The only downside of my previous army list was that I did not get to shoot enough before the cavalry came. I can still slap it on all my 4 batteries. Which makes 8 garuanteed attacks turn 1!

It's what I'm planning on doing with four (160 point!) cannons for the first two turns of the game. Let me know how you fare!  

[Lightbox]

Hey folks!

So my gaming group is gonna be rolling up a tale of x warlords style thing next month and It will of course be start collecting box or something similar (between like 400-600 points or something, still need to decide how we're gonna do it for non SC armies) I'm planning to do the 'something similar' since there are no start collecting boxes I currently want to buy (again).

Anyway one of the options I'm currently considering is a freepeoples one particularly either ironweld arsenal focused or battlemage focused (because endless spells).

 

So I'm wondering if people have suggestions on a cool ironweld force to represent a start collecting and how it could be fun to build off from it or even alternate suggestions. One example I'm considering is:

-Lord Ordinator
-10 freeguild Guard
-Steam tank

Though as this is primarily a building and painting challenge I'm gonna be wanting to have stuff that's both nice to build and paint and also will be useful for future games and not break the bank since I'm gonna be grabbing a fair bit of soul wars nighthaunt (because they're too pretty not to and I love my death stuff). Would the alternate possibilities be any better?

-1 Engineer
-1 Cannon (or 2 if no mage)
-1 Battlemage
-10 freeguild guard

 

-1 Lord Ordinator
-10 crossbowmen
-2 rocket volleys

I know the start collecting generally just have one hero but some magic synergy could be cool. And I think the general rule will be: 1 battleline, 1 hero (not necessarily including behemoth heroes) and 1 behemoth or 2 medium units. It would be a loose guide anyway. Or could it be more worth going mage oriented to grab a celestial hurricanum and add small guns in as I go? No clue how much hurricanum is rated for our gunlines these days. I'm not too worried about competitive, just something that's fun and will work well enough.

I will be adding a battlemage to the gang at some point so any fun spells they get that can do well with our guns would be great (e.g. is the healing mage spell any good or would something like fireball's mortal wounds be better?)

 

(PS: Major apologies that big batrep I promised hasn't been done... totally got busy and forgot about it  Need to find my notes again)

[Double Misfire]

Hi @Lightbox

Great start collecting substitute ideas. I think the first option with the Steam Tank will definitely serve you better in a friendly league, as you're not going to make any friends shooting start collecting boxes off the board with an Ordinator backed Cannon (or Cannons) in a 500 point fluffy game (definitely not planning on taking an Ordinator + Cannon to the Blood and Glory 500 pointer, nooo sir! ). Also maybe consider swapping out the Ordinator for a wizard as he's not essential for the Steam Tank and you could have more fun messing about with endless spells.

 

Re: The Hurricanum in a gunline/Ironweld list: After the matched play points hike in the GHB17 the Hurricanum's imo just not worth it not used alongside units that spike on a 6+ to hit like Vanguard Raptors or Retributors. Organ Guns and Cannons with an Ordinator are going to be hitting on a respective 2+ or rerollable 3+ anyway. It might be alright on Ordinator backed Helstorms, and you're already saving points on them by not having to take an engineer, but at 380 points it's an almighty amount to drop when you've already shelled out over 1000 points for an Ordinator, four Helstorms and the Command points to have them shooting twice for two turns.

[Lightbox]

1 hour ago, Double Misfire said:

 -snip-

Cheers bud! That's a good idea actually as messing with endless spells would be good fun and I'll be honest I've always wanted a steam tank

 

I'll have to look into cannons, more guard and engineers and such. Though do you reckon outriders or pistoliers might be a good shout or something to avoid for low points games? I'd love to get some for my freeguild and figure they'd give me a nice little speedy unit to grab objectives or be distractions.

 

Though I'm only a casual player I'd still like to be able to hold my own so will need to put at least a little thought into my non cannon additions

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, Lightbox said:

Though do you reckon outriders or pistoliers might be a good shout or something to avoid for low points games? I'd love to get some for my freeguild and figure they'd give me a nice little speedy unit to grab objectives or be distractions.

I wouldn't avoid them at all. At 130 points a go they're basically Reavers, minus taking up a battleline slot and plus more punch (at your choice of range).

I think Ironweld in the new edition are going to be all about blowing your opponent to smithereens in the first two turns with a quartet of double shooting artillery pieces and then zipping out with fast units like Reavers or Gryph-Hounds to pinch the objectives you've cleared.

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey guys,

Time to wrap this one up, Thanks for all the great contributions here, especially to @Double Misfire for completely championing this relatively unassuming faction. He has created a new thread for everyone to continue discussing his beloved Ironweld Arsenal as we move into the new edition. You can find that here -

http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18259-aos-2-ironweld-arsenal-discussion/

Cheers,
Chris