Let's Chat: Ironweld Arsenal

[MacDuff]

I think the big win for humans  and Dwarvish allies in AOS is to push them toward tech innovation to overcome their squishiness. I remember a mention of large mechanical fortresses with cannons patrolling around  Hammerhal, but there's so much more possible. Repeating guns of all types. New Davinci war machine constructs. Mechanical steeds and flyers. Clockwork warriors and Giants. Explosive lances. Trebuchet troop launchers. Mages in mechanical locomotive cages. Mechanized shields. Drilling devices. Evolved flyers. Spine gauntlets. Reaving platforms.  Steam-driven personal armored shells. Mk II Steam Tanks. Magnetic caltrops. Flame Bellows. Arrow clusters. Extending swords. I'd take on anything with an army like that.

[Double Misfire]

@AdrianDrake22

Truly a list and models after my own heart! 

The Warden King looks awesome and very AoSy with Kroq-Gar's blade, and the Battle for Skull pass cannon is one of my favourite dwarf warmachines of all time and looks great in your army's scheme.

I think Tempest's Eye allegiance would suit your list really well, as every model you use already comes from one of the right factions for it so it's just a free bonus at this point. If you're having trouble keeping stuff away from your lines had you considered investing in some Hunting Hounds (or if you're going to make a go of Tempest's Eye Gryph-Hounds)? They're pretty amazing for bouncing stuff away from a gunline, and at unexpectedly seizing objectives in matched play games.

 

I got a quick game in at the club on tuesday night, 1300 points (that was all he had assembled) against a friend's fledgling Slaanesh Daemons. We used the Open War Cards to generate a scenario and were both relived to have landed something pretty simple:

 

It was a... spectacularly short game, with my Hammerhal force having cleared the board of daemons by the end of turn two, having only lost a few longbeards, a unit of Swifthawk Reavers and a single dog, but good fun all round and my first game this year.

 

On the slim chance anyone cares, I'm still planning on writing my much delayed Ironweld Tactics post, but am holding off until after the first sighting of the Lord-Ordinator's warscroll, because I'd like to do a quickie review/breakdown post for him  and see how much of a possible game changer he is first. 

Spoiler

(sod's law, he'll provide no benefits for Ironweld stuff and will only like artillery in the background)

[TheNotebookGM]

We still care!

[AdrianDrake22]

6 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

On the slim chance anyone cares, I'm still planning on writing my much delayed Ironweld Tactics post

Eagerly awaiting the tactics post, dont you worry

I've rewritten my list to include the Handgunners and a Freeguild general, and I now have 60 points to spare. I was considering the Witch Hunter simply because he is exactly 60 points and has the option to take two Pistols, making him fit the theme somewhat. However from a tactics point of view I think you're right, the Hounds would help the army much more. 

[Double Misfire]

53 minutes ago, AdrianDrake22 said:

Eagerly awaiting the tactics post, dont you worry

I've rewritten my list to include the Handgunners and a Freeguild general, and I now have 60 points to spare. I was considering the Witch Hunter simply because he is exactly 60 points and has the option to take two Pistols, making him fit the theme somewhat. However from a tactics point of view I think you're right, the Hounds would help the army much more. 

Rule of cool, always take the Witch Hunter! 

(or stick a  spare longrifle on his back and call him a Gunmaster. Either way...)

[Double Misfire]

Whoop whoop, Lord-Ordinator incoming!

I'll write a full review of this guy once I've had some sleep, but I couldn't be more happy with his warscroll. Can't wait!  

[Seraphage]

On 11/1/2018 at 9:39 PM, Double Misfire said:

Rule of cool, always take the Witch Hunter! 

(or stick a  spare longrifle on his back and call him a Gunmaster. Either way...)

I LOVE the idea of the Gunmaster. This guy was always too lovely to be skipped and now you gave me a way of using him, thanks !

[Double Misfire]

Hi all, I had a big birthday at the weekend and am just about recovered and able to type, so five days late and without further ado it's the:

LORD-ORDINATOR REVIEW

As you can see from a few posts up, the Lord-Ordinator's warscroll is upon us, and while he's entirely useless to 99% of Order players (even Kharadron are gonna struggle to use him if he can't keep up with their ships), I couldn't have asked for better for the Ironweld Arsenal, and this guy just became an auto include in any artillery minded list.

A quick glance at the Ordiantor's warscroll shows that he doesn't have the Engineer keyword, which is annoying because it means you'll be down another leader slot it you want to bring your artillery to optimal potential, but not the worst thing in the world as it means I won't have to retire my painstakingly converted and painted Gunmaster and Cogsmith models. Defence wise the Ordiantor's about as squishy an ineffective in combat as any  five wound support hero and he's much too important to loose easily, so belongs squarely in the backfield with the artillery he buffs.

Arcane Engineer's +1 to hit aura means that you'll want to deploy your artillery (and Steam Tank! more on that later) in a loose 13" bubble around the Ordiantor. You could probably run two Ordinator's in a very situational list (like the idea for a Stormcast one I'll cover in the post below), but when he costs an extra 100 points, you're probably better off dropping more Battleline Bodies on the floor, as a single Ordinator  on top of the engineers and artillery you'd have previously taken means you'll have even less points to spend on the all important Battleline Bodies than you used to.

If you've got four artillery pieces split into two batteries of two with an Engineer each you should be able to get them effectively spread out with the Ordinator in the middle. Here's a (very badly drawn) suggested deployment for the Lord-Ordinator and my current preferred combination of guns:

The Ordinator's Rain of Fire command ability letting a warmachine shoot twice means that you're always, always going to want to run him as the general of an Ironweld focused list, the 100 points you'll be paying for him effectively buying you a much more durable and flexible fifth artillery piece. Command trait wise you'll always want to slap Strategic Genius on him to give him a chance of firing off a bonus Inspiring Presence to your Battleline Bodies on top of Rain of Fire. Artefacts are much better off used on pretty much any other non-Engineer hero.

Unfortunately now having a default go to general is a bit of a poisoned chalice and will put a pretty severe hampering on the non Ironweld units you'll find in a list, particularly the blobs of Battleline Bodies. Without a reliable inspiring presence, or the buffs offered by the boutique command abilities of guys like the Freeguild General, they're likely to go down a lot quicker. With countering this in mind I'd say Hammerhal allegiance and Dispossessed as a Battleline Body choice with their means of minimising battleshock through banners and Longbeards just went up in stock. If you wanted to break character you could also give the ubiquitously cheap, hard to pin down Skink battleline a look, but I still think they look silly stood next to Dwarf and Empire cannons.

 

The Lord Ordinator and Ironweld Units:

Organ Guns and Helblasters:

Total no brainer. Remember how great these things are with damned terrain? Great, they're always stood next to damned terrain now. You're much better off dropping Rain of Fire on a Cannon but enjoy blowing holes in things!

Cannons:

The jump from hitting on 4+ with rerolls to 3+ with rerolls is huge, you're hardly ever going to miss with a cannon now. The default choice for Rain of Fire, especially against large units, a single cannons's going to be looking at blowing 16 or so wounds off a decent sized infantry blob on a fair day.

Helstorm Rocket Batteries:

The Lord-Ordiantor's a massive boost to all our artillery, but I think the piece that benefits the most is probably the Helstorm. Arcane Engineer boosting it from hitting on a 4+ to a 3+ (assuming all shots are fired at the same target) suddenly pushes it into reliable hero sniper territory not seen since the halcyon days of the pre GHB2017 Grudge Thrower. The Helstorm's unique among Ironweld artillery lack of need for an Engineer means part of me's tempted to paint up four of them and an Ordinator (and possibly a Celestial Hurricanum) to happily spew 15 rockets a turn without the need for line of sight.

The Steam Tank:

While it's still a weird, slow moving jack of all trades master of none type unit, the Lord-Ordinator's +1 to hit gives the Stank a solid shot to the arm. With it's unreliable movement it's primarily a defensive unit, so it shouldn't be hard to keep in range, and can even benefit from Rain of Fire if all your artillery crews are wiped out.

Gyrocopters and bombers:

Um... yeah. I can't think of many ways the Ordinator could benefit either of these units that doesn't involve him neglecting your artillery and shooting himself in the foot. Maybe, assuming all you artillery crew had been slain you could run him towards a gyrocopter for two rounds of 2+ hit rolls with the steam gun. Maybe...

 

Conclusion:

tl;dr

The Ironweld Arsenal now have a must take general that makes all their trademark artillery a lot better and the Steam Tank a little better. But watch out for him using up another leader slot and taking away even more points that could be spent on bodies. While typing this piece I forgot to mention his biceps and facial hair. Rest assured that they are fabulous.

[Double Misfire]

I'd planned on squeezing all this into a single paragraph in the above post, but it got a bit bloated with everything I had to say, so here's a bonus piece on

THE LORD-ORDINATOR IN STORMCAST LISTS

 

Hello Stormcast players!

I'm sure you've all written off the Lord-Ordinator as yet another pointless splash release (boy is everyone sick of those) that can't directly buff any of your units and can't be sprayed gold, but I can see him having at least a couple of semi-viable applications in a ordinance-minded Stormcast list that isn't afraid to ally in a few mortals.

As I mentioned in the previous post, there's not a lot of point in taking the Lord-Ordinator if he's not your general to take advantage of his command ability Rain of Fire with, but before you fret about him being a waste of a +1 to hit in melee/battleshock immunity bubble, worry not, the Consummate Commander command trait will keep your usual bubble of choice intact and allow you to shoot twice with your preferred allied warmachine. If you wanted to be really daring you could even run two Lord-Ordinators with Consummate commander on them for double the double shooting (more on this later).

 

I've created a short list of three viable selections of allies that can slot into a 2000 point matched list and should see you get some mileage out of the Lord-Ordinator:

The Ironweld "Basics" Range:

1 Cannon, 1 Organ Gun and a Gunmaster

Don't mess with the classics. A compact artillery detachment with slightly better damage and threat range than the equivalent amount of points spent on Longstrike Raptors, these guys will make a mess out of pretty much anything you point them at, particularly large units of low armoured models. Always put Rain of Fire on the Cannon as the Organ Gun can prove unreliable, and make sure to shield them from anything with a higher ranged threat range/able to get a charge in.

The Four-in-Two:

2 Helstorm Rocket Batteries with 2 Lord-Ordinators on Consummate Commander

This is probably the option that requires the most commitment in list design. You could probably run it very effectively with only a single Lord-Ordinator if you wanted to maintain your usual general/command ability. The Helstorm Rocket Battery is unique among Ironweld artillery in that it doesn't need an Engineer to babysit it and it doesn't need line of sight to it's target, making them great for sniping troublesome characters while hiding behind scenery and not getting shot themselves. With a pair of these with a Lord-Ordinator each, you're looking at 12 3+/3+, rend -2, D6 damage shots landing  on your opponent's key pieces pretty much anywhere on the battlefield.

The Not-Actually-Ironweld-Arsenal-Units-But-I-Included-Them-Anyway:

3 Dark Elf Reaper Bolt Throwers

Compendium units are still a thing, and repeater bolt throwers are still pretty tasty, Dark Elf repeater bolt throwers being the slightly better of the two. Clocking in at only 120 points each and not needing an engineer means you can get three of these in a 2000 point list. I've never used them and have no idea how they compare to Judicators, but for so few points and with a 40" threat range, they're not to be ignored.

 

I hope this post has been of some use, let me know if you're actually crazy enough to try out any of the ideas in it. Until the Ruination Chamber opens and Ironweld Arsenal units are made entirely redundant (in any list, not just Stormcast ones), enjoy!  

[Double Misfire]

Also this is just the worst and I'm delighted that the zombie dragon kit is so fiddly and @BaldoBeardo is a slow hobbyist:

[oscisi]

3 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Also this is just the worst and I'm delighted that the zombie dragon kit is so fiddly and @BaldoBeardo is a slow hobbyist:

You make great Ironweld posts as usual!  Any ideas about when we will know how many points the ordinator will cost?

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, oscisi said:

You make great Ironweld posts as usual!  Any ideas about when we will know how many points the ordinator will cost?

I'm blushing now.  80 to 120 points is my best guess for an easy to kill utility hero - I guess we'll find out on saturday at the earliest and I'll update the review accordingly then.

[oscisi]

He is available for pre-order now

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Lord-ordinator-Vorrus-Starstrike-2018

[Cinncinnatus]

Over on the AoS Facebook page they are hyping up a Greywater Fastness themed list lead by a Lord-Ordinator. I immediately thought they must have read this thread!

[stato]

17 minutes ago, Cinncinnatus said:

Over on the AoS Facebook page they are hyping up a Greywater Fastness themed list lead by a Lord-Ordinator. I immediately thought they must have read this thread!

 

[Double Misfire]

3 hours ago, stato said:

 

Needs more gryh-hounds.  

[stato]

11 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Needs more gryh-hounds.  

True. The rest of the list is 1900pts so I guess the Ordinator is 80-100, you could drop the Luminark for 2 gryph hounds and 2 Azyros for some extra re-roll filth 

[Double Misfire]

22 minutes ago, stato said:

True. The rest of the list is 1900pts so I guess the Ordinator is 80-100, you could drop the Luminark for 2 gryph hounds and 2 Azyros for some extra re-roll filth 

Good detective work!  

I'd personally drop the handgunners for something cheaper and more durable too, Gotta get those bodies on objectives!

[oscisi]

1 hour ago, Double Misfire said:

Good detective work!  

I'd personally drop the handgunners for something cheaper and more durable too, Gotta get those bodies on objectives!

Cheaper AND more durable? My choice would have been to replace one or two units of handgunners with 5 or 10 liberators.

 

...I guess freeguild guard with shields is a slightly more durable option than handgunners.

(Edited for spelling)

[Double Misfire]

I've just seen the matched play page of the Malign Portents book and it looks like the Lord-Ordinator's 100 points.

He can also be the army general even when chosen as an ally, so roll on those battleline organ guns.  

[Kimbo]

Just out of curiousity..have anyone used an almost all ironweld arsenal list to great success? What allies did you use if any? 

The thematic feeling of an artillery army is tempting, haha!

[Double Misfire]

I've just had a chance to sit down properly with my copy of the new Malign Portents book (which is absolutely awesome by the way, something anyone reading this post probably already knows by now), and the new rules for playing during the Time of Tribulations offer some really fun tactics to the Ironweld Arsenal, and have the potential to go a long way towards keeping artillery crew alive (or at bringing them back to life. tomato/tomato). Anyway, less one of my usual posts and more of a ramble, here's:

THE IRONWELD ARSENAL IN MALIGN PORTENTS - FIRST THOUGHTS

Realm of Battle: Shyish:

Realmsphere Magic and Realm Commands:

Not an awful lot to see here, move along. Pall of Doom's probably nice when shooting up big units, but if you're going to shell out the points for a wizard, you'll almost always have a spell in mind that you'll be wanting them to cast instead, and you'll never want to use either of the two command abilities over the Lord-Ordinator letting one of your artillery pieces shoot twice anyway, so they're both pretty redundant.

Realmscape Features:

These are nice and flavourful and for the most part pretty harmless. Watch out for Life-leeching and The Winds of Death, as if your opponent rolls as six at the start of their turn with one of these in effect you can guarantee they're landing on one of your artillery crews.

The Power of Death:

And now we get to the (mostly) good stuff!

If you run a lot of dogs in an Ironweld focused list and are smart about it, the Power of Death rules used for games set in Shyish are probably going to give you more benefits than any other army in the game. Dogs exist to get charged and hold enemy units up, and even when they're lucky enough to survive a round of combat are always going to retreat afterwards to slow stuff down again, meaning that they'll only ever die in your opponents' turn. Each individual 20/40 point dog is an entire power of death point, meaning that if you opt to give your opponent turn priority in a battleround (most opponents winning the priority roll will opt to go first anyway) you know you're going to lose a lot of dogs, you're going to have really good chance at pulling off a high result on the Power of Death table, including and up to the tailor-made-for-Ironweld Legacy of Nehek and Cheating Death, the latter allowing you to put an entire wiped out artillery crew back on the board (without the need to pay reinforcement points)!

If you're lucky enough to get them Legacy of Nehek's also going to do wonders keeping thinly spread units of single wound Battleline Buddies in the fight, and Cheating Death can be used to pull the Ordinator or another key hero back to life if you've not managed to loose any artillery crew yet. I normally run three Hunting Hounds and two Gryph-hounds in my standard Hammerhal list, but am now tempted to run as many as 10 Hunting Hounds to see how many I can get killed to exploit the power of Shyish with (my Labrador is currently looking up at me from her basket, her face a mask of horror).

Kiss of Death and Withering Wind are both results to pray to Ranald never happen. There's not very much you can do to avoid Kiss of Death landing on one of your artillery crews, but thankfully the two Power of Death results we've already discussed and several of the ways guiding Malign Portents can be interpreted will give you chances at bringing them back to life. Withering Wind is terrifying, especially in a Hunting Hound heavy army, as a bit of bad luck and a couple of these can easily put your entire kennel down, and seriously thin out your artillery crews; avoid it by making sure you wipe out at least two enemy units a turn, and if you've only managed to kill one at the end of a shooting phase think about charging a dog in to it's death (especially if you've already already suffered one Withering Wind).

 

The actual Malign Portents themselves:

We've got it made in the way of actual Portents and prophecy points too. While the rest of the Lord-Ordinator's boutique Signs from the Heavens aren't much to write home about (unless you're lucky enough to share the board with a Warscryer Citadel, more on that later), Sign of New Guidance  letting you switch guiding portents is a pretty handy ace to have up your sleeve from a model you're frankly always going to include in your list anyway.

Guiding portents wise, The Bloodied Skull, The Balemoon and The Black Void are the clear leaders to start the game with, dependent on the composition of your opponent's army, with the Bloodied Skull and Balemoon balemoon suiting games against fast/fighty opponents (which one's best to start with generally being down to how far away your deployment zones are), and the Black Void against shooty lists.

The Bloodied Skull:

If you're playing  an opponent without any ranged stuff able to take out your soft artillery crews either deploying under 24" from you, or that you're sure is going to give you the first turn (its very unlikely any army will have more drops than Ironweld with a lot of dogs), then the Bloodied Skull's probably the guiding portent you'll want to start with, and will almost always be the one you'll want the Lord-Ordinator to switch to later in the game.

Clawing Hands offers an awesome way of controlling the battlefield and slowing down a key Deathstar for a turn or two, all for the handy cost of only 2PP. It's especially noteworthy for being able to reduce the threat range of a unit of Skyfires below that of your Cannons.

Shield of Bones is pretty self explanatory and will turn units of Battleline Buddies into Ironbreakers, helping them hold an objective or keep enemy units occupied for a a little while longer. Strata of Screaming Skulls is a great way to exhaust a leftover prophecy point at the end of a turn you've put out a lot of ranged hurt. The Dead Walk the Earth is a pretty self-explanatory, but incredibly useful way to get back a slain crewman.

The Balemoon:

The Balemoon looks like it'll only ever be a useful early game guiding portent, and after dropping The Weeping Moon to slow down the entire enemy army by a couple of inches you'll want to immediately use the Lord-Ordinator to switch to the Bloodied Skull and get a sneaky Strata of Screaming Skulls in after you've pounded your opponent's line with cannonballs.

The Black Void:

If you're playing against another gunline, this is the guiding portent you're gonna want to start the game with. It's also the portent most opponents will pick when playing against an Ironweld force, so learn it well!

You know how most other ranged units have a slightly lower threat range than Ironweld stuff, but are much, much more resilient to damage? Look no further than Doom and Darkness reducing the entire enemy army's missile range by 6". Units of Judicators and Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins can have their range peeled down below the 24" mark, rendering them unable to shoot and harmless in the first turn of games the armies deploy that far away. Doom and Darkness will affect other factions missile units with a lower range far more than Ironweld units, but be sure to always assume your opponent is going to take it during deployment and take this into account when you're deploying your artillery pieces and calculating their threat range.

Helsnach Eclipse is awesome against magic heavy armies, and means that it'll take an extra turn for most wizards to start slinging offensive spells at your lines (and giving you plenty of time to pick them off before they can), and that even a wizard on a Balewind will usually not be able to target any of your units on the first turn of the game.

Ashes and Dust reduces the range of all command abilities by 6", and can be a nasty surprise for a enemy general who hasn't taken it into account while deploying, and really ****** over a lot of bubble command abilities. The Lord-Ordinator's no exception to generals who can be caught out by Ashes and Dust, so make sure to deploy him next to the Cannon or Helstorm you plan on using Reign of Fire on!

The Red Mist:

A special quick shout out to the Red Mist, a guiding portent that rather shockingly considering it's name doesn't have much in the way of immediate benefits for an Ironweld-Focused list. It does however give you the chance to pull a fantastically sneaky curveball with the Lord-Ordinator switching portents especially to drop Cold of the Grave and potentially preventing a charge from Skarbrand or a 15 man unit of Brutes.

 

The Warscryer Citadel:

Boy does this thing look cool! Just having one of these bad boys on your half of battlefield, let alone your deployment zone doubles the effectiveness of the Lord-Ordinator, and it's a brave opponent who lets you use it's scenery warscroll. Regardless of whether he's in it and massively boosting the size of his +1 to hit bubble, or using Sign of the Warscryer to access one 18" away, the Lord-Ordinator's always, always going to want to pick (he can pick, he built the darn thing) Divine Inspiration and use it on himself when discerning the skein of the heavens for future possibilities. The only thing better than shooting twice with a cannon is shooting twice with two cannons!

 

[Mordeus]

On 1/11/2018 at 3:01 AM, AdrianDrake22 said:

 

How did you do the weathering? Looks great.

[Kimbo]

22 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Just out of curiousity..have anyone used an almost all ironweld arsenal list to great success? What allies did you use if any? 

The thematic feeling of an artillery army is tempting, haha!

Anyone? ?? im curious how people play an order alligence!

[Double Misfire]

2 hours ago, Kimbo said:

Anyone? ?? im curious how people play an order alligence!

Sorry! I must have completely missed your post while I was typing up the Malign Portents breakdown last night. 

I've had some moderate success with an almost all Ironweld Arsenal army, and usually podium with them when I go to a smaller local tournament. I'd love to, but haven't been to one of the larger AoS tournaments yet, and suspect I probably wouldn't do as well there!

As a WFB Dwarf player of the oldest school and a notoriously slow painter I mainly use Dispossessed "allies" for my Ironweld stuff, along with lots of Gryph-Hounds and Hunting Hounds from the Wood Elf compendium to act as cheap speedbumps.

Playing competitively with Ironweld stuff is an uphill struggle and with artillery being split into 4 wound warmachines and 3 man crews, they are literal glass cannons that need very careful deployment and planning to survive an enemy army with any ranged units of their own.

I've written several detailed posts in this thread breaking down the various Ironweld units, the best allies to take with them and how to get the use out of them, most of them on the first page, check them out.