What counts as a mount for artefact and traits?

[J.J]

Hey all,

Apologies if this has been covered already - but there seems to be a lot of confusion about what is a mount and what isn't, now that GHB2017 has ruled that artefacts only affect the rider and not the mount.

I raised the question here, when I was told that you could apply the artefact/traits to the Mighty Lord of Khorne to more than double his and his flesh hound's attacks. But then the Coven Throne came up as an example. Which part of the Coven Throne is the mount, all of it bar the vampire? Just the ghosts underneath? Do the handmaidens count as part of the mount or do they also have the buff applied to them as they are "accompanying" the vampire? Or do they count as part of the warmachine because their attacks degrade with it?

There are also some other weird examples - the dark elf on dragon never states on its warscroll that it's riding a dragon but it clearly is. Where is the line drawn?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

[BaldoBeardo]

Unit description on the warscroll covers it pretty well.

[Tasman]

On 9/5/2017 at 2:59 PM, FRoper said:

I agree with Bosmer and until we get some clarification I to whether or not it affects accompanying models, then I would say they gain the benefit. Glottkin I would play that they would all gain the benefit, as it is 3 hero's despite one being a mount. 

As for the bros glott, I am in complete agreement.

[Cerlin]

While this hero is an exception of having a companion and not a mount, it is blindingly obvious which part of the scroll is the hero and which is the companion. 

If the companions on the throne dont get buffs, this hound doesnt either.

Anyone arguing to give the hounds buffs from items or command traits is being deliberatly gamey and I think the semantics are dishonest. 

Should it be Faq'ed? Sure. But based on the warscroll plus the way rules for buffs are stated it makes a lot of sense that the hound doesnt get the same buffs.

Take for example, spiteful destroyer. How is this connected to the hound? Would it be connected to the chimera attacks for a chaos lord? I dont think so and the logic should be comparable.

I try to default on not being a ******. If I am reading too much in a rule to powergame it, I am probably wrong.

[KeX]

So if i get correctly

All artefacts and command abilities only effect hero unless says otherwise. So that means spells, buffs from terrain effects both, right? And what about flesh eater delusions i guess they effect both too right? 

 

MOUNTS
Some heroes have a mount, such as
a battle steed, a powerful monster
that they can ride, or a massive war
machine that they can stand upon. In
all such cases, any command abilities
or magical artefacts can only be used
to affect attacks made by the hero,
and have no effect on attacks made
by the their mount unless specifically
stated otherwise.

[FRoper]

I agree with Bosmer and until we get some clarification I to whether or not it affects accompanying models, then I would say they gain the benefit. Glottkin I would play that they would all gain the benefit, as it is 3 hero's despite one being a mount. 

[Bosmer Nightblade]

I think common sense applies.

A mount is ridden.

The lord of khorne is not riding the flesh hound. The flesh hound is not a mount. Lord and Flesh Hound receive the benefits.

 

The vampire and her handmaidens are riding on top of the spectral hosts. The spectral host is the mount. Vampire and handmaidens receive the benefits, spectral host does not.

[decker_cky]

Glottkin is a case where it's clear who the mount is and which attacks belong to it (Ghurk Glott is being ridden by his brothers), but which is conceptually a bit off (Ghurk, as much as Otto and Ethrac is a hero).

[BaldoBeardo]

In all cases I can think of, warscroll descriptions make it pretty clear who is who and armed with what.

Granted, "mount" isn't a concept in the main rules. GHB 17 has created it. And makes it extremely simple by specifying who gets bonuses, rather than what doesn't.

[ppetford]

Coming at this from the angle - 'if it doesn't say I can't do it, then surely it means I can' - I can see how clarification is needed.

However, looking at warscroll like the coven throne it's pretty clear the Vampire Queen is the hero who is "attended" by her handmaidens and is "protected" by the spectral hosts. Therefore, only the Vampire Queen gains benefits - as far as I can see.

[Killax]

Just now, Seraphage said:

Not really. They made it as simply as they could this time. It's the hero you buy which has a companion with him. So, only the hero.

Compagnion is never mentioned in the rules regarding this subject. It would help, but isnt in gh2017.

[Seraphage]

Just now, Killax said:

As the whole model, mounts included, shares that Keyword it still doesnt awnser the question.

Not really. They made it as simply as they could this time. It's the hero you buy which has a companion with him. So, only the hero.

[Killax]

13 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Only. The. Hero.

As the whole model, mounts included, shares that Keyword it still doesnt awnser the question.

[BaldoBeardo]

Only. The. Hero.

[Killax]

It's certainly a grey area, I hope GW will eventually come out with what is a mount and what is not per Warscroll, usually we can figure it out, the Vampire Queen is actually on top of the Coven (as per her Magic and Command Ability say) so there is enough reason to think she is indeed on a warmachine, which counts as a mount as described in GH2017.

[J.J]

So in that case, is the Mighty Lord of Khorne not armed with the flesh hound's weapons and therefore gains no bonus on that weapon?

Quote

Disciple of Khorne: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of all melee weapons wielded by your general (but not any weapons used by their mount if they have one).

Strictly speaking, the dog isn't classed as a mount (as defined by the GHB) but it is a melee weapon listed on the MLoK's scroll. It seems a bit of a grey area.

[BaldoBeardo]

In most cases, it's pretty clear who is armed with what.

In the case of the Coven Throne, assume just the Vampire Queen's weapons are affected - least likely to be disappointed.

The rules specify "only the hero", after all.