Mixed Death & Tomb Kings - 2k lists

[Kugane]

After some consideration of what I want in my list, I've come up with this build, I still need to pick Artifacts however.

 

Leaders:

Mannfred - General

Wight King with Battle Standard and TB 

Necromancer

Battleline:

5 Dire Wolves

40 Skeleton Warriors with Spears

10 Skeleton Warriors with Swords

10 Skeleton Warrior with Swords

Behemoths:

Mortis Engine

(Mannfred)

Battalion:
Legion of Death

Other:

10 Black Knights

10 Grave guard

2 Morghast Archai

Total: 1980 points

 

The Tomb Kings build is pretty straight forward:

Allegiance: Death

Leaders:

Tomb King on Exalted Chariot - General

Tomb King

Lich Priest

Tomb Herald

Tomb Herald

Necromancer

Battleline:

6 Chariots

6 Chariots

10 Skeleton Horsemen

Other:

3 Necropolis Knights

Total: 1980 points

[Sception]

The second list is 1990 by my count, not 1980.  And I'd really want to get those necroknights up to 6.  A lot harder to get rid of them that way.  Maybe drop the tomb king (he's good, but he's a lot slower than the rest of your force), and downgrade the 10 horsemen to 10 zombies (yeah they're slow too, but they can sit on a backfield objective or something)?  I don't know.

[Kugane]

19 hours ago, Sception said:

The second list is 1990 by my count, not 1980.  And I'd really want to get those necroknights up to 6.  A lot harder to get rid of them that way.  Maybe drop the tomb king (he's good, but he's a lot slower than the rest of your force), and downgrade the 10 horsemen to 10 zombies (yeah they're slow too, but they can sit on a backfield objective or something)?  I don't know.

I see, I reloaded the Azyr app and you are right, it is indeed 1990 :). Are the necro knights still worth it with the current points value? They seemed slightly overpriced with the current ruling, but I might be mistaken. I could also take 5 dire wolves instead of 10 zombies I think. 

 

 

[Sception]

The price is a lot higher, but I don't think anyone can argue that their old price wasn't criminally low, and unlike the royal or necrosphynx they didn't get hit with a big rules nerf on top of the price hike.  Loss of deathrattle doesn't really hurt necroknights in a primarily TK army.  They still get vanhels from a splashed necromancer.  If you're going to take them at all, especially in a list with two heralds where you can bring back up to three a turn, I think you should take more than three in the unit.  That or drop them entirely and use those points elsewhere.

But I'm no expert, anything I say should be taken with more than a single grain of salt.

[Kugane]

2 hours ago, Sception said:

The price is a lot higher, but I don't think anyone can argue that their old price wasn't criminally low, and unlike the royal or necrosphynx they didn't get hit with a big rules nerf on top of the price hike.  Loss of deathrattle doesn't really hurt necroknights in a primarily TK army.  They still get vanhels from a splashed necromancer.  If you're going to take them at all, especially in a list with two heralds where you can bring back up to three a turn, I think you should take more than three in the unit.  That or drop them entirely and use those points elsewhere.

But I'm no expert, anything I say should be taken with more than a single grain of salt.

Yeah, I think you are right. I guess it is time to start painting 3 more necropolis knights in that case :). I am actually considering to drop Settra and Chariots completely in the list and replace it with Skeleton warriors, a wight king and mannfred for some diversity. I think it might look nice on the battlefield as well to have a bit of a mix.

[swarmofseals]

2 hours ago, Kugane said:

Yeah, I think you are right. I guess it is time to start painting 3 more necropolis knights in that case :). I am actually considering to drop Settra and Chariots completely in the list and replace it with Skeleton warriors, a wight king and mannfred for some diversity. I think it might look nice on the battlefield as well to have a bit of a mix.

I wouldn't do this, mostly because I'm not a fan of Mannfred in general and also think that this will make your second list play too similarly to your first list. If diversity is what you are looking for, I'd make two lists that play differently! The first list is relatively slow and defensive. The second list is much faster and more offensive. I think you will appreciate the variety.

 

That said, I'd definitely make some changes to the Tomb Kings list. This is what I'd think about running, with the caveat that I think it will be a pretty nasty list:

 

Leaders:

Tomb King in Exalted Chariot (460, general)

Tomb Herald on Skeletal Steed (100)

Tomb Herald on Skeletal Steed (100)

Necromancer (110)

 

Battleline:

40 Skeleton Legionnaires (320, spears and shields)

10 Skeleton Legionnaires (80, blades and shields)

3 Skeleton Chariots (140)

Units:

6 Necropolis Knights (480)

 

Behemoths:

1 Mortis Engine (180)

 

Total: 1970

 

While I absolutely see what the goal was with the TKiEC, TK, Liche, Necro, NecroKnights combo, I think it's overkill. With both spells that unit would have an average damage of 102 rend 1 and 15 mortals. That's just absurd overkill against almost any target. Without the Tomb King and Liche Priest you're looking at "only" 58 rend 1 damage and 8 mortals which should still be plenty of damage.

This build gives you access to a big tank unit of skeletons that can still do impressive damage and should be difficult to shift off an objective as well as a secondary skeleton unit for holding a rear objective. These units also provide a nice wound battery for the Necromancer which would otherwise be exposed in your previous list.

While not as good as the six man chariot units, the three chariots should still be a real pain, tarpitting anything that doesn't have good enough offense to wipe it out in one turn as the heralds and banner will refresh it entirely.

The Mortis Engine is a bit experimental, but I think it should work nicely in the list. If your opponent targets the TKiEC, the damage will spread out across heralds. If you get good melee positioning the opponent may not be able to prevent this. With enough long ranged firepower however they can focus down the heralds independently. If the damage does get spread out though the Mortis Engine heal will give you tremendous value. It'll also help ensure your Vanhels goes off each turn and interfere with your opponent's magic. I'm not totally sold on its inclusion though, and it could easily be dropped. Drop it and downgrade the chariots to Horsemen and you have enough for a smaller squad of 3 Necropolis Knights, or you could drop it and beef up the chariots to 3 and change the 10 legionnaires to a smaller chariot squad. 

For artefacts and traits, several seem good to me. Ruler of the Night is probably unnecessary as you have a lot of heroes. Red Fury is pretty solid, but I'm not sure more punch is what the list needs. Same goes with Supernatural Horror. Both could be good choices though. Master of the Black Arts seems very attractive. For Artefacts I like Cursed Book if you plan to get TKiRC close, but it's hard to turn down Ring of Immortality especially if you are also bringing a Mortis Engine. Without the Engine heal it might not be worth it.

[Kugane]

13 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I wouldn't do this, mostly because I'm not a fan of Mannfred in general and also think that this will make your second list play too similarly to your first list. If diversity is what you are looking for, I'd make two lists that play differently! The first list is relatively slow and defensive. The second list is much faster and more offensive. I think you will appreciate the variety.

 

That said, I'd definitely make some changes to the Tomb Kings list. This is what I'd think about running, with the caveat that I think it will be a pretty nasty list:

 

Leaders:

Tomb King in Exalted Chariot (460, general)

Tomb Herald on Skeletal Steed (100)

Tomb Herald on Skeletal Steed (100)

Necromancer (110)

 

Battleline:

40 Skeleton Legionnaires (320, spears and shields)

10 Skeleton Legionnaires (80, blades and shields)

3 Skeleton Chariots (140)

Units:

6 Necropolis Knights (480)

 

Behemoths:

1 Mortis Engine (180)

 

Total: 1970

 

While I absolutely see what the goal was with the TKiEC, TK, Liche, Necro, NecroKnights combo, I think it's overkill. With both spells that unit would have an average damage of 102 rend 1 and 15 mortals. That's just absurd overkill against almost any target. Without the Tomb King and Liche Priest you're looking at "only" 58 rend 1 damage and 8 mortals which should still be plenty of damage.

This build gives you access to a big tank unit of skeletons that can still do impressive damage and should be difficult to shift off an objective as well as a secondary skeleton unit for holding a rear objective. These units also provide a nice wound battery for the Necromancer which would otherwise be exposed in your previous list.

While not as good as the six man chariot units, the three chariots should still be a real pain, tarpitting anything that doesn't have good enough offense to wipe it out in one turn as the heralds and banner will refresh it entirely.

The Mortis Engine is a bit experimental, but I think it should work nicely in the list. If your opponent targets the TKiEC, the damage will spread out across heralds. If you get good melee positioning the opponent may not be able to prevent this. With enough long ranged firepower however they can focus down the heralds independently. If the damage does get spread out though the Mortis Engine heal will give you tremendous value. It'll also help ensure your Vanhels goes off each turn and interfere with your opponent's magic. I'm not totally sold on its inclusion though, and it could easily be dropped. Drop it and downgrade the chariots to Horsemen and you have enough for a smaller squad of 3 Necropolis Knights, or you could drop it and beef up the chariots to 3 and change the 10 legionnaires to a smaller chariot squad. 

For artefacts and traits, several seem good to me. Ruler of the Night is probably unnecessary as you have a lot of heroes. Red Fury is pretty solid, but I'm not sure more punch is what the list needs. Same goes with Supernatural Horror. Both could be good choices though. Master of the Black Arts seems very attractive. For Artefacts I like Cursed Book if you plan to get TKiRC close, but it's hard to turn down Ring of Immortality especially if you are also bringing a Mortis Engine. Without the Engine heal it might not be worth it.

I really love this list! Thank you very much for sharing it. I pretty much have everything on that list ready for use other than heralds on skeletal horses... But it won't be too difficult to convert a few and make them ready for use. I have never been a fan of Chariots, so only having to include 3 is awesome to me personally. I came across something nasty on the Order forums, dug up directly from the Q&A. I am wondering if it is technically legal to keep running TK under the old warscrolls, basically allowing stuff to remain Deathrattle? If so, it may open more options.

"Q: If I have two different warscrolls for the same unit, 
can I choose which to use, or must I use the most recently 
published version?
A: You can choose which warscroll to use, but it may 
be more convenient for your opponent if you use the 
most recently published version, especially if the earlier 
version is no longer readily available."

 

[swarmofseals]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

I really love this list! Thank you very much for sharing it. I pretty much have everything on that list ready for use other than heralds on skeletal horses... But it won't be too difficult to convert a few and make them ready for use. I have never been a fan of Chariots, so only having to include 3 is awesome to me personally. I came across something nasty on the Order forums, dug up directly from the Q&A. I am wondering if it is technically legal to keep running TK under the old warscrolls, basically allowing stuff to remain Deathrattle? If so, it may open more options.

"Q: If I have two different warscrolls for the same unit, 
can I choose which to use, or must I use the most recently 
published version?
A: You can choose which warscroll to use, but it may 
be more convenient for your opponent if you use the 
most recently published version, especially if the earlier 
version is no longer readily available."

 

I think you certainly can as long as your opponent is OK with it. I wouldn't expect it to fly in tournaments though. Glad you like the list!

[Kugane]

21 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

I think you certainly can as long as your opponent is OK with it. I wouldn't expect it to fly in tournaments though. Glad you like the list!

I suppose you very quickly risk being "that guy" though. So I guess I'll shy away from even trying :P.

[swarmofseals]

3 hours ago, Kugane said:

I suppose you very quickly risk being "that guy" though. So I guess I'll shy away from even trying :P.

It really depends on the power of your list. If you do this to make a list that is way better than your usual opponents then yeah, you will get that label. If you tune it to the right level though it will be no problem. If in doubt tune it low to start and then adjust upwards. If you guess wrong and just crush your first game or two you are much more likely to get a rep. If you lose your first few games people will be MUCH less likely to label you.