What next in death!?

[Dracothjay]

Hi guys, I'm  a big FEC player and loving the new set of rules for them. However, I'm looking now to expand my love for death and don't know where to go next. 

Im looking to expand for two reasons, for allies purposes and also a fresh death sub faction completely. 

As a FEC player, deathlords would suite my expansion quite well as they are part of the ally keyword. What also has my eye is deathrattle aswell, although the unit choices and army itself is quite minimal.

if you were me, what would you branch in to next?

[Sception]

The first thing I'd always add to FEC is a necromancer.  Vanhel's on a big unit of Crypt Horrors is pretty nasty.

[Dracothjay]

Yeah, I've always wanted to test that. I have a necromancer painted aswell. 

What else? You think I should Persue deathlords?

[Sception]

I don't know.  Do you feel like you're missing anything in particular?  The FEC feel reasonably complete.  I'd suggest starting a new Death faction entirely, rather than thinking of what you get as allies for your existing army.  But none of the other death subfactions feel at all fleshed out, if you'll pardon the pun.  There's some signs that 2018 might be a big year for the undead.  It might be worth just holding off until we see what we're actually getting.

[Dracothjay]

Yeah, I'm ****** with holding onto money ??. 

In response to you though, I don't feel FEC are lacking anything at all.  

was thinking of replacing ghouls for zombies seeming as they are allies, but you can't use them as BATTLELINE can you? If you take the FEC allegiance you pretty much have to take ghouls/horrors as BATTLELINE depending on your general choice?

[Sception]

I don't think allies fill battleline requirements?  but I haven't actually purchased the new GH yet, so I can't say on that front.

The main reason I'm iffy on deathlords is that none of the mortarchs feels especially ghoulish to me.  I know Arkhan and Nagash have both used ghouls a fair bit in the fluff, so it's not like they'd be anti-fluffy, but they just don't feel like they fit to me, in the same way I could imagine an insane mortal(ish) necromancer being drawn into a Ghoul King's web of illusions, taking the place of a court mage.  The other thing about allied deathlords is that I don't think allies can be your general, and most of the deathlord characters feel like they lose a lot if you're not letting them run the show.  Arkhan is kind of an exception to that, since his command ability, while not terrible, isn't as big a deal as the command abilities of Nagash, Neferata, or Mannfred.

Arkhan and a necromancer together fit in under 500 points - you can ally from more than one different subfaction, as long as they're all valid allies, right?  If that's legal, you'd add a fair bit of casting power to your list, as well as another large flying beatstick.  Granted, Arkhan's not the beatiest of mortarchs, but it's worth noting that, as a skeleton, he himself is a valid target for Vanhels.  And if you can leave 220 to 240 points open for summoning, you could get a fair bit of mileage out of Arkhan's abilities there.  220 lets you summon a pair of either type of morghast, while 240 would let you summon either of those or 6 spirit hosts, or 40 zombies to blob an objective, or 6 bat swarms to penalize shooting, or 2 bat swarms plus an extra 5 hexwraiths or something.

I'm currently looking at Arkhan, a necromancer, and 220 reserve points for a pair of morghasts in a casual 2k point bring & battle death/deathrattle list - along with two wight kings, 60 skeletons (40 spears, 2x10 swords), 20 grave guard, 10 black knights, and the legion of death formation.  Arkhan, Necromancer, and a pair of summoned Ghasts feels like a decent sort of mini detachment, But I want to stress that's for pretty casual gaming, and I'm not sure how well it would fit into or fill needs in a FEC army.

 

Instead of any of that, there's always the Mourngul.  Maybe slightly weaker than it was, but still easily worth the 400 point asking price.  Still a piece every undead player worth their salt probably wants to be able to field at least one of.  Just a shame you can't fit one of those and a necromancer under 500 points.

[Kugane]

8 hours ago, Sception said:

I don't think allies fill battleline requirements?  but I haven't actually purchased the new GH yet, so I can't say on that front.

The main reason I'm iffy on deathlords is that none of the mortarchs feels especially ghoulish to me.  I know Arkhan and Nagash have both used ghouls a fair bit in the fluff, so it's not like they'd be anti-fluffy, but they just don't feel like they fit to me, in the same way I could imagine an insane mortal(ish) necromancer being drawn into a Ghoul King's web of illusions, taking the place of a court mage.  The other thing about allied deathlords is that I don't think allies can be your general, and most of the deathlord characters feel like they lose a lot if you're not letting them run the show.  Arkhan is kind of an exception to that, since his command ability, while not terrible, isn't as big a deal as the command abilities of Nagash, Neferata, or Mannfred.

Arkhan and a necromancer together fit in under 500 points - you can ally from more than one different subfaction, as long as they're all valid allies, right?  If that's legal, you'd add a fair bit of casting power to your list, as well as another large flying beatstick.  Granted, Arkhan's not the beatiest of mortarchs, but it's worth noting that, as a skeleton, he himself is a valid target for Vanhels.  And if you can leave 220 to 240 points open for summoning, you could get a fair bit of mileage out of Arkhan's abilities there.  220 lets you summon a pair of either type of morghast, while 240 would let you summon either of those or 6 spirit hosts, or 40 zombies to blob an objective, or 6 bat swarms to penalize shooting, or 2 bat swarms plus an extra 5 hexwraiths or something.

I'm currently looking at Arkhan, a necromancer, and 220 reserve points for a pair of morghasts in a casual 2k point bring & battle death/deathrattle list - along with two wight kings, 60 skeletons (40 spears, 2x10 swords), 20 grave guard, 10 black knights, and the legion of death formation.  Arkhan, Necromancer, and a pair of summoned Ghasts feels like a decent sort of mini detachment, But I want to stress that's for pretty casual gaming, and I'm not sure how well it would fit into or fill needs in a FEC army.

 

Instead of any of that, there's always the Mourngul.  Maybe slightly weaker than it was, but still easily worth the 400 point asking price.  Still a piece every undead player worth their salt probably wants to be able to field at least one of.  Just a shame you can't fit one of those and a necromancer under 500 points.

I personally love the style of Mortarchs. I have 1 built and another on sprue, but without their command trait they don't seem worth their points. I love your army idea though!

[Sception]

Again, if you're going to take any Mortarch without their command trait, it should be Arkhan.  Not that his command trait is terrible or anything, but it's also not that big of a deal - especially now that the von carsteins are gone and righteous smiting can be cast on TK units only.  As it is, I generally find that the spells I still care about casting - vanhels & shield, righteous smiting if I'm playing TK - are usually in range regardless.  And I can very much imagine Arkhan leaving the grunt work of actually directing the forces on the battlefield to a Krell-style underling while he soars overhead pursuing whatever specific task Nagash assigned to him that led him to gather an army and march to war in the first place.

Maybe if any of our factions ever get their own spell lore Arkhan's command ability might suddenly become a never-pass-up part of his rules, but as it is what you take him for, and what you pay points for, are his personal casting and fighting abilities, not his skill as a field commander.

[Kugane]

22 hours ago, Sception said:

Again, if you're going to take any Mortarch without their command trait, it should be Arkhan.  Not that his command trait is terrible or anything, but it's also not that big of a deal - especially now that the von carsteins are gone and righteous smiting can be cast on TK units only.  As it is, I generally find that the spells I still care about casting - vanhels & shield, righteous smiting if I'm playing TK - are usually in range regardless.  And I can very much imagine Arkhan leaving the grunt work of actually directing the forces on the battlefield to a Krell-style underling while he soars overhead pursuing whatever specific task Nagash assigned to him that led him to gather an army and march to war in the first place.

Maybe if any of our factions ever get their own spell lore Arkhan's command ability might suddenly become a never-pass-up part of his rules, but as it is what you take him for, and what you pay points for, are his personal casting and fighting abilities, not his skill as a field commander.

Thank you for the info! I am considering to include Arkhan as a hammer unit in my army, with either mannfred as a general, or simply having a skeleton warrior champion be the general. Either way this has definately inspired me to go ahead and paint up my Arkhan! Thank you very much^^

[Sception]

Just remember that the Arkhan should never go anywhere without a necromancer, and you'll probably want to purchase or convert a mounted necromancer that can to a better job of keeping up with him if he happens to go ranging, along with a faster unit like hexwraiths or flayers to block charges & pass wounds to, though honestly I don't go ranging with Arkhan much - though I'm no pro player so what I do shouldn't necessarily carry much weight.

As a hammer Arkhan's alright, but really only when you've hit him with vanhel's, and even then vanhel's is usually better cast on a maxed out skeleton or crypt horror unit.  And Arkhan's not the toughest mortarch, & his offense does get worn down with damage taken, so even with vanhels on it's not too hard to wear him down to a relatively nonthreatening level.  All in all, he's a tool to keep in reserve, behind your lines, keeping your buffs up, throwing out the occasional curse of years, dispelling any wizards that get too close.  Casting Vanhels on himself and charging is, imo, a late game trick, once your larger units that are otherwise better buff targets have already been worn down.  Mannfred or Neferata or some blood knights or a vamp or ghoul king riding a gheist or dragon make a better fast flanking missile if you need one, imo.  Or a big unit of necroknights hurled by settra a tomb king on extra fancy chariot if you're playing TK.  Or a necrosphinx maybe, but the simultaneous points hike and rules nerf they've suffered have me skeptical of them.