Arkiham Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, stato said: Can you guys please not spoil another thread with a variation on 'game is broken / players are broken' theme. Lets talk about how you CAN make nice varied tables, what you can use, etc. not why YOU cant or why some people might maon about it. We get it, people moan, lets keep them out of TGA. For me Ive collected up a few Lord of the Rings terrain pieces and planning to build a ruined city. Ive got a green-stuff roller to make floor tiles which i plan to use within the buildings but also use to make a central ruined pathway i can use to set the buidlings around. Combine with a few hills and rocky outcrops and a desert/badlands theme and im hopeful it will look good. Indeed. People who aren't into terrain features and the like will ignore this, but those that are into it or undecided and more importantly hopefully new players won't. We should concerntrait on increasing those numbers rather than changing the minds of a few anti terrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebat Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, Auticus said: I find in a lot of instances that the player talking about how they need points and scenarios being balanced aren't really looking for balance per say, because part of being a good tournament player is being able to craft lists that are busted out of the gate (the opposite of balance). Rather I find that they are looking for a structure that they can then break within the confines of the rules. Adding terrain to the mix is not something that they can control. I can sit down at my desk and write an excel spreadsheet list that maxes out what I think I'll be facing off against. I can take the GHB points and spreadsheet was is most cost effective. I can guess what the meta will throw at me and max against that. But if terrain has an impact and Im going to club night or a tournament, I have *ZERO* control over what terrain will be on my table... and THAT key facet is what I think is the root of it all. No control over what terrain is on the table plus terrain having a big impact = angry gamer. Yeah it's about making the game as easy as possible. I've been thinking about how i'd sum it up after bringing it up in the double turn thread but terrain is a throttle. A relatively bare board is good for your local shop where they have limited space and want to get in games that are fast and with loads being taken off at once. It gets games over with quick and looks exciting. but it magnifies the effect of differences in army lists and random rolls. It's like a game of hearthstone or something where do I draw what I needed first? If I do I win, if I don't I lose with little decision making in between. I kind of wish there was an Open, Narrative and Matched play scale for terrain. 12 minutes ago, stato said: Can you guys please not spoil another thread with a variation on 'game is broken / players are broken' theme. Lets talk about how you CAN make nice varied tables, what you can use, etc. not why YOU cant or why some people might maon about it. We get it, people moan, lets keep them out of TGA. Why shut down discussion on the topic? No one here seems to be anti terrain but dismissal of any criticism as merely moaning doesn't seem fair. I mean I don't think the game is broken but I don't think it's perfect. I certainly don't think everyone should be forced into playing the same way as I mention above but I think terrain allows for an additional layer of rules that can be taken advantage of by anyone that wants to without changing the core rules of the game in a way many suggestions seem to. Think of it as an easy, medium and hard mode. I interpreted the original post as being a general discussion about terrain and not just a call for pretty pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 1 hour ago, WABBIT said: I had a look on ebay earlier but couldn't find it. who is the seller? Thanks! https://ftdscenery.com/collections/ruins Google search is your best friend. Right click, search google for picture and it's not only the first hit. But found a lot of different pages with similar content. Worth a try (just don't have time to go through it myself ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firebat Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Would there be any interest in terrain that was more themed towards certain realms or armies or do people prefer the more generic terrain? I was thinking about trying to design some fire based terrain for when that Firestorm expansion came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Nexus Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Damn, that terrain seller doesn't ship to Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 47 minutes ago, firebat said: Would there be any interest in terrain that was more themed towards certain realms or armies or do people prefer the more generic terrain? I was thinking about trying to design some fire based terrain for when that Firestorm expansion came out. Go for it. Realm rules are a thing and if they don't want to use them it still looks epic. I stick with grass/snow/desert as it suits most people's bases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 For folks that play at a GW location the LOTR terrain is also excellent and being plastic is highly convertible and usable with the "standard" GW terrain. The Lake-town house (in both single and multipack) https://www.games-workshop.com/Lake-Town-House Goblin Town (also available in multipack) https://www.games-workshop.com/Goblin-Town The ruins of osgiliath (also available in multipack) https://www.games-workshop.com/Ruins-of-Osgiliath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsharitt Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Even though my shooty sky dwarfs may benefit from no terrain, I still like to see a lot of terrain on the battlefield when I play. While my FLGS has plenty of terrain to choose from, I really need to step up my terrain game at home. I've got most old fish tank plants and boulders along with some plastic stuff that came with my son's dinosaurs. One of these days I'm just going to have to sit down a figure out how to make my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunkhouseBuster Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Here's a company that makes some plastic scenery: http://www.renedra.co.uk/index.php And then of course, there are ways to cast your own scenery from plaster/dental stone: http://www.hirstarts.com/ I'm hoping to invest in some Hirst Arts molds someday myself. If it's one thing I need more of in my hobby, it's finished terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 GW also has AoS rules for https://www.games-workshop.com/Deathworld-Barbed-Venomgorse-2017 https://www.games-workshop.com/Deathworld-Eldritch-Ruins-2017 And https://www.games-workshop.com/Deathworld-Shardwrack-Spines-2017 For creating a "Kharadron Overlord Skyport" the Warhammer 40K Industrial Terrain Sets (that were introduced with Shadow War Armageddon) are also awesome! These include: Sector Mechanicus Galvanic Magnavent https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Magnavent Haemotrope Reactors https://www.games-workshop.com/Haemotrope-reactors Promethium Relay Pipes https://www.games-workshop.com/Promethium-Relay-Pipes Sector Mechanicum Promethium Forge https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Promethium-Forge-2017 Sector Mechanicum Ferratonic Incinerator https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Ferratonic-Incinerator-2017 Sector Mechanicum Ferratonic Furnace https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Ferratonic-Furnace Sector Mechanicum Alchomite Stack https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Alchomite-Stack Sector Mechanicum Galvanic Servohaulers https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Servohaulers-2017 And the Industrial Terrain Set https://www.games-workshop.com/Industrial-terrain-set-2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABBIT Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Just now, TheOtherJosh said: GW also has AoS rules for https://www.games-workshop.com/Deathworld-Barbed-Venomgorse-2017 https://www.games-workshop.com/Deathworld-Eldritch-Ruins-2017 And https://www.games-workshop.com/Deathworld-Shardwrack-Spines-2017 For creating a "Kharadron Overlord Skyport" the Warhammer 40K Industrial Terrain Sets (that were introduced with Shadow War Armageddon) are also awesome! These include: Sector Mechanicus Galvanic Magnavent https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Magnavent Haemotrope Reactors https://www.games-workshop.com/Haemotrope-reactors Promethium Relay Pipes https://www.games-workshop.com/Promethium-Relay-Pipes Sector Mechanicum Promethium Forge https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Promethium-Forge-2017 Sector Mechanicum Ferratonic Incinerator https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Ferratonic-Incinerator-2017 Sector Mechanicum Ferratonic Furnace https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Ferratonic-Furnace Sector Mechanicum Alchomite Stack https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Alchomite-Stack Sector Mechanicum Galvanic Servohaulers https://www.games-workshop.com/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Servohaulers-2017 And the Industrial Terrain Set https://www.games-workshop.com/Industrial-terrain-set-2017 Do you work for GW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWilddog Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 With the shift to a more high fantasy setting in AOS, I have seen a lot of good things done with the Gothic 40K kits. When set next to the Ophidian Archway and the Numinous Occulum and with a little conversion work, I find these kits fit in quite well as ruins. Plus if you happen to play 40K, two birds with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, WABBIT said: Do you work for GW? Nope! I just hobby at my local GW store, and I prefer working with plastic rather than resin or plaster of Paris. (and I've been looking at terrain as I get more into the gaming side of the hobby, from a larger focus on painting.) And they have an absolutely awesome amount of the industrial terrain and one of the original thoughts as it was being built "wow this would make great KO skyport terrain". I'm fortunate that empty terrain tables aren't as much of a challenge. Our local community has chipped in for terrain as well for the store. But most stores have limited budget for terrain... so selection can be limited. They have multiple Garden of Morr, and some of the older terrain... along with the standard AoS terrain. It's pretty awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick in York Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I've found a really quick, cheap and easy way to get some terrain is from the fish section of the local pet shop. As someone who has only been into the hobby for just over a year, I found the main barriers to getting terrain were the cost of buying and/or time to build/paint which are in addition to building up a playable force. Fish tank terrain was an easy solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trout Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I love using terrain and have recently begun collecting it. However, I don't like the current crop of terrain rules. I think the base rules are just uninteresting and wind up being too much to keep track of. The terrain warscrolls suffer from an entirely different problem; they are often tailored to favor one specific faction or require you to have a specific unit in order to take advantage of it. What use is the Garden of Morr warscroll if I don't play death and don't own any skeleton models? What use is a Dragonfate Dais warscroll if I don't run any priests? They seem to be designed with specific synergies in mind. That would be fine if they made different terrain for different factions, included point values for them, and marketed them as units for your army. But they don't make enough of them for every faction to benefit. They need better warscrolls for the terrain that allows everyone to benefit from using it; or hurts everyone equally. Terrain rules do seem to work very well for me in skirmish games. Since you move individual models around, I find myself setting people up on top of walls and things like that far more often and the rules come into play a lot more. The "crumbling" mechanic has been particularly exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 There are some really great links in here. Lots of terrain that will work for AoS very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jabber Tzeentch Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Auticus said: I find in a lot of instances that the player talking about how they need points and scenarios being balanced aren't really looking for balance per say, because part of being a good tournament player is being able to craft lists that are busted out of the gate (the opposite of balance). Rather I find that they are looking for a structure that they can then break within the confines of the rules. Adding terrain to the mix is not something that they can control. I can sit down at my desk and write an excel spreadsheet list that maxes out what I think I'll be facing off against. I can take the GHB points and spreadsheet was is most cost effective. I can guess what the meta will throw at me and max against that. But if terrain has an impact and Im going to club night or a tournament, I have *ZERO* control over what terrain will be on my table... and THAT key facet is what I think is the root of it all. No control over what terrain is on the table plus terrain having a big impact = angry gamer. I find this attitude really strange for a war gamer. This isn't a controlled scientific study, it's not chess where everything is almost perfectly balanced, it's not a mathematical problem to be solved. This is a war game i.e. A simulation of war. War has a unknown entities (like terrain, random turns etc) and the sign of a good general is someone who can consistently win in these unknowable environments by using the best tactics available at the time to overcome the unforeseen problem. Playing on a board with little terrain, no terrain rules, no time of war rules etc is a no good test to find the best general. One who cannot prepare for the unknown is not prepared at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWilddog Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I absolutely love Tabletop World's stuff: http://www.tabletop-world.com/ It's expensive as it gets but the quality is incredible. I bought the ruined house awhile back. It was a joy to paint and I smile every time I look at it. I keep meaning to save up for some more but other stuff keeps jumping up in my spending que. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I feel that terrain sadly doesn't play a significant enough part in some of the games I play. Part of this comes due to what's available at the club. If I'm putting out terrain, I always put more aesthetically pleasing stuff on the board rather than ruin the immersion. So when we have an 'ash' board or a 'slate' board, I'm not going to put down green forest trees on those boards. So we're a bit restricted in what kind of 'area' terrain ends up on those boards. Usually if any, they end up being Mordheim ruined buildings. Then there's whether or not the terrain rules cause a significant impact. Deadly terrain for example, doesn't actually do anything on many terrain pieces as they're what we'd previously call 'Impassable'. Similarly, both Inspiring and Sinister both effect battleshock, which does matter, but often not enough. Arcane similarly only effects Wizards, and it may be in such a place that it has little impact on the game. Mystical and Damned though both have quite powerful effects. Lastly, remembering what the terrain effects do. This comes down to making sure you have Terrain Dice or tokens or something similar to help you remember the terrain effects for certain pieces. When I remember, I always bring my notepad and just tear off bits of the paper to write the terrain effect down as poor mans tokens. I've never had a player refuse to play with terrain rules before, but I've had many instances where both players forget to roll for terrain or can't be bothered doing terrain rules in a game. As for my personal board. My terrain collection consists of: 2 Ponds 1 Wildwood/Forest (With 2 more in box) Dreadstone Blight Watchtower Balewind Vortex Arcane Ruins 2 Realm Gates +Eternity Stair, Magewrath Throne (On skull mountain), Dreadfire Portal, Ophidian Archway, Dragonfate Dais, Another Balewind Vortex, Craters unassembled/unpainted. Have some Walls and Fences somewhere as well. So I find my collection lacking both area terrain and scatter terrain. There's a lot of free standing items which are basically impassable for all intents and purposes. The area terrain I do have are mainly the 2 ponds, which sadly make the board feel a bit 'empty' due to their lack of height. What I really want to get are some area terrain with rocks/ruins/rubble in it, to spice up the look a bit. The problem is I don't really have a suitable area for scratch building terrain pieces, certainly don't have access to a saw or anything to cut up mdf to use as area bases. Ideally I want some scatter terrain which can be put onto an 'area' terrain base to provide 'cover' if needed, but alternatively can just be chucked onto the board to break it up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 One thing I would add about using 40k terrain is to make sure that you remove the bits that make it obviously 40k - so Aquillas and Mechanicus symbols Although it's a tiny item, I always feel a bit sad when I look at a photo and see somebody has plonked their AoS models on a piece of 40k scenery! One suggestion for inspiration is Pinterest (sorry you need to sign up) and type in something like "Warhammer Terrain" or "Mordheim Terrain" - be prepared to lose hours of your life though as there are hundreds of amazing terrain pieces out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JontyGoesGaming Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, someone2040 said: What I really want to get are some area terrain with rocks/ruins/rubble in it, to spice up the look a bit. The problem is I don't really have a suitable area for scratch building terrain pieces, certainly don't have access to a saw or anything to cut up mdf to use as area bases. Ideally I want some scatter terrain which can be put onto an 'area' terrain base to provide 'cover' if needed, but alternatively can just be chucked onto the board to break it up a bit. Heavy, but you could actually go with some real rocks and reindeer moss which is dirt cheap.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moss-Finland-Reindeer-Green-Olive-Natural-Craft-Wreath-Choose-Weight-/132221125575 Then you could just scatter them across the board each time. It's a bit messy but the mat should allow you to 'pour' your scatter terrain back into some containers afterwards. If you've ever watched StrikingScorpion82's battle reports this is the technique he uses to blend his terrain into the board a bit more. It's an involving process but maybe worth a try?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D4q-IVFLoQ For MDF - try these, an oval or circle is an organic enough shape and saves you cutting stuff up. Or old CD's even? Even though they're uniform shapes if you put rocks right up to the edges it'll blend into your board a bit more. https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1280&bih=918&tbm=shop&q=mdf+circle&oq=mdf+circle&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0.23797.24513.0.24944.6.6.0.0.0.0.113.485.5j1.6.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.6.483.7w3BLgxgAIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 14 hours ago, TheWilddog said: With the shift to a more high fantasy setting in AOS, I have seen a lot of good things done with the Gothic 40K kits. When set next to the Ophidian Archway and the Numinous Occulum and with a little conversion work, I find these kits fit in quite well as ruins. Plus if you happen to play 40K, two birds with one stone. Perfect example of this at a gaming store I occasionally get to play at. He built a big centerpiece for his realm of death board using that 40k piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamose Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 12 hours ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said: One who cannot prepare for the unknown is not prepared at all. That was my exact point when someone told me they didn't like the double turn because they could play a 'perfect game' and it would be ruined because of the double turn. Well if you didn't account for the double turn, then you didn't play a 'perfect game'. Also I think Auticus' explanation for why most tournaments and competitive games shun lots of terrain and the terrain rules is likely spot on. As for terrain, my LGS is lucky that we have a whole back wall of terrain to choose from. We have a good selection of GW terrain that I and others have assembled and painted for the store, but most of it is generic, scratch-built terrain. Its still pretty high quality (we have some skilled modelers in the store) and there's plenty to use for three or more games simultaneously. I usually try to play with about a 10-15 pieces of terrain and I personally love the terrain rules and the warscrolls. When I'm setting up a board I have about 3-4 pieces of with terrain rules (Mystical, Damned, etc) and 1-2 using the warscrolls. These ones are 'strategically' set up where the two players will have to at least approach and hopefully interact with them. Folks are right that some of the terrain warscrolls favor certain factions or unit types but I just consider that an extra challenge. Its kind of a secondary objective. For example if I'm playing my Fyreslayers against an army with wizards, and we have a Dreadfire Portal on the battlefield, one of my goals is to keep his wizards away from it. If you don't know what the rules for the Dreadfire Portal are, you should look them up ;). Let's just say....orbital laser! The game is more of a narrative story and war simulation to me. A huge part of war is seizing and denying the enemy's valuable territory, and there's not much incentive to do that is none of the territory (read terrain) is valuable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 21 hours ago, Veillotron said: Steve Wren's Holy Wars event is exactly the type of event that I would like to attend - every board is unique, with specific them and special rules... And folks can't complain - they have the rule pack in advance and can prepare... Steve Herner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I have some 40k Terrain from this guy: https://m.facebook.com/pg/der-Müller-tabletop-wargaming-terrain-scratchbuilts-170500416342058/about/ bought it second hand and it's just amazing. He makes custom terrain pieces for every game system and his well known in Germany. if you have some money left over, it's well spent ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.