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Lets chat Soulblight


TerrorPenguin

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26 minutes ago, bonzai said:

Feed back is appreciated. Also, anyone know if there are female alternatives to blood knights? If I can pull off an all female army for her she would love it!

I have seen some very nice female vampire knights converted from this Raging Heroes model, but doing a whole Blood Knight unit would be pricey.  

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8 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Right, except that 1v1, a Vampire Lord would defeat a Relictor or the Branchwych.  Personal preference to which you prefer, but I think you're just complaining over something that is fairly costed.

compare 2 relictors to the vamp lord, 160pts vs 140pts. vamp deals 1.7 wounds per turn, relictors deal 1.4 wounds back.  relictors each heal and average of 1.3 wounds per turn (after prayer failure chance). vamp loses. yeah in a 1 on 1 fight the VL would win, the VL is also NEARLY TWICE THE COST.

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5 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

compare 2 relictors to the vamp lord, 160pts vs 140pts. vamp deals 1.7 wounds per turn, relictors deal 1.4 wounds back.  relictors each heal and average of 1.3 wounds per turn (after prayer failure chance). vamp loses. yeah in a 1 on 1 fight the VL would win, the VL is also NEARLY TWICE THE COST.

I think that might just be a case of the stormcast stuff being undercosted. 

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1 hour ago, Gotrek said:

compare 2 relictors to the vamp lord, 160pts vs 140pts. vamp deals 1.7 wounds per turn, relictors deal 1.4 wounds back.  relictors each heal and average of 1.3 wounds per turn (after prayer failure chance). vamp loses. yeah in a 1 on 1 fight the VL would win, the VL is also NEARLY TWICE THE COST.

Vamp has a higher damage POTENTIAL than a relictor.  The ability to fly is one of the biggest boons that he has... OVER TWICE THE MOBILITY than the Relictor, not to mention being able to cast and unbind spells.

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9 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Vamp has a higher damage POTENTIAL than a relictor.  The ability to fly is one of the biggest boons that he has... OVER TWICE THE MOBILITY than the Relictor, not to mention being able to cast and unbind spells.

prayers > spells. lightning chariot and deep strike say your fly is cute. oh and they can take a prayer which allows them to unbind. 

 

10 hours ago, Malakree said:

I think that might just be a case of the stormcast stuff being undercosted. 

and the demon prince and ogroid?

 

at this point we're just rehashing points that have already been addressed so im going to stop.  if you guys feel 140 points is a good price, then more power to you, in my local scene my vamps only survive because i hide them and the VLoZD is a juicier target for all that shooting, once they get engaged they fold faster than a napkin.

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The fundamental problem with units like the vampire lord in AoS is that they are inefficient by design. They are a hybrid unit: spellcaster/support with a combat hero melee profile. They are priced with both of these things in mind. Most basic spellcasters/support heroes are in the 80-120 point range. With the vampire lord, you are basically getting an 80 point caster hero and an 80 point combat hero rolled into one, with a 20 point discount. The problem here is that the caster/support side is much more valuable than the combat side, and it's just not tough enough to risk exposing to the enemy. So you end up with a model that's basically just functioning as a caster/support hero, but costs extra for abilities that you aren't using. This is fundamentally inefficient.

The reason why models like this worked in WHFB is that you could actually protect them to some degree by putting them in a unit. That way you could actually afford to fight with them, even if doing so was something of a risk. In AOS there is no such protection.

 

EDIT: credit to @Gotrek for bringing this up already. I hadn't read the previous page!

 

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15 hours ago, Gotrek said:

prayers > spells. lightning chariot and deep strike say your fly is cute. oh and they can take a prayer which allows them to unbind. 

 

and the demon prince and ogroid?

 

at this point we're just rehashing points that have already been addressed so im going to stop.  if you guys feel 140 points is a good price, then more power to you, in my local scene my vamps only survive because i hide them and the VLoZD is a juicier target for all that shooting, once they get engaged they fold faster than a napkin.

Then don't take him.  It's not a big deal.

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32 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

The only reason to take the VLord is for his debuff spell. With the amount of hordes out there with bonuses to attacks taking a attack away could be the difference between taking 30 attacks vs taking 60 attacks

When 30 bloodletters come knocking at your door with a Bloodsecrator, this comes to mind.

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22 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

When 30 bloodletters come knocking at your door with a Bloodsecrator, this comes to mind.

I've been facing the same issue with blocks of 40 buffed up plaguemonks, Casual 4 attacks each, 4+ rerolling, 4+ rerolling, 6s to wound have, -1 rend if the banner has been popped roll again on the -1 rends on another 6 they deal a mortal wound instead. Fricking brutal to deal with.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Was thinking of this list -

Allegiance: Death
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Nightmare
- Trait: Mist Form 
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- Mount: Steed
10 x Blood Knights (520)
5 x Blood Knights (260)
6 x Vargheists (320)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
2 x Bat Swarms (80)

Total: 2000/2000

Bat swarms to be summoned vs. shooty armies, or Fell bats for other melee armies.  That quick -1 to ranged hit rolls can really wrench up an enemy's shooting fo ra turn or so.  Skeleton warriors for regenerating tarpit, and boost up the bloodknights/vargheists with an extra attack, and 3 wizards lets you debuff the enemy that charges in with -1 attacks characteristic and keeping mystic shield up.  VLoZD is great, but honestly, the utility of 3 smaller heroes helps with objectives, fitting the small base in where it's needed, and multiple spells (all of which are useful).

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On 30-8-2017 at 2:53 PM, Hayday said:

Any thoughts on which artefacts might be best?

Rules question on "The Saccharine Goblet". I understand that the bonuses would only work on the Vampire Lord and not the Dragon, but what if the Vampire Lord doesn't inflict any wounds but the Dragon does? Would this negate the D3 mortal wounds suffered?

Wondering this too. anyone who knows what the correct ruling is?

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20 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Was thinking of this list -

Allegiance: Death
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Nightmare
- Trait: Mist Form 
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- Mount: Steed
10 x Blood Knights (520)
5 x Blood Knights (260)
6 x Vargheists (320)
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
2 x Bat Swarms (80)

Total: 2000/2000

Bat swarms to be summoned vs. shooty armies, or Fell bats for other melee armies.  That quick -1 to ranged hit rolls can really wrench up an enemy's shooting fo ra turn or so.  Skeleton warriors for regenerating tarpit, and boost up the bloodknights/vargheists with an extra attack, and 3 wizards lets you debuff the enemy that charges in with -1 attacks characteristic and keeping mystic shield up.  VLoZD is great, but honestly, the utility of 3 smaller heroes helps with objectives, fitting the small base in where it's needed, and multiple spells (all of which are useful).

The more I play the more I think the multiple vampire lord option is better than the vlozd. Spreads the death save around and can be used to pin and escape if a flying horror. Would be interested in how you get on.

Personally I would split the vargheists and use them to get over your blood Knights and either threaten shooting or grab an objective or assassinate a character. Yes it may mean they die quicker but being in two places is better for me

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4 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said:

The more I play the more I think the multiple vampire lord option is better than the vlozd. Spreads the death save around and can be used to pin and escape if a flying horror. Would be interested in how you get on.

Personally I would split the vargheists and use them to get over your blood Knights and either threaten shooting or grab an objective or assassinate a character. Yes it may mean they die quicker but being in two places is better for me

Yep, I've run into the same issue.  VLoZD is good... but not THAT good for his cost.  I can see a greater utility in taking Swift Death or Dragon Warrior bloodline, and spreading out the saves, on top of the command ability.  

Splitting the Vargheists would be nice.  Imagine 15 Bloodknights with the VL command ability?  60 lance attacks that reroll 1's and hit on 3's?  Sounds good to me... haha.  Running 10 fits in more places though.  I've even found 6 Vargheists to be a bit unweildly.

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Played a game this week, only 1600 points so I took

2 x vl

3 x 3 varghesists

2 x 5 blood knights

40 skeletons

it was a three player game so the dynamics altered slightly but I am thinking that msu vargheists has got a lot of strengths. Taking the trait that always gives them the 6+ save means they can fly ahead without too many problems. Their save is a problem but the multiple spell casters meant I was able to move mystic shield around. 

In the end the skeletons won it just for being able to stick around.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another game this time:

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- Allies
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Trait: Mist Form 
- Artefact: The Scabbing Plate 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (260)
- Soulblight Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (260)
- Soulblight Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (260)
- Soulblight Battleline
3 x Vargheists (160)
- Soulblight Battleline
3 x Vargheists (160)
- Soulblight Battleline
3 x Vargheists (160)
- Soulblight Battleline

Units
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Blades
- Allies

Reinforcement Points (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 400 / 400
 

It was against a mono khorne list and so did ok. The skeletons held up two objectives by helpfully stretching across them. The blood Knights were ok, if they were d3 damage all the time they would be great. As it stands try can only really get at most three charges off in a game if you're lucky. I took the trait that means you don't need to be near a hero to get the 6+ save but I'm thinking the move and fly might be better. 

I'm going to stick with this list for a bit and see how it goes.

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Yea, Deathless minion goes with all the sub factions.

 

@TerrorPenguin

List seems quite fun. Would love to hear how you did with it. It's so hard to do competetive Death lists, since we're not shooty and our DeathlessM -Save isn't a factor to considerate, but just a lucky shot now.

I wish they had mixed in Deathwalkers and Soulblight together, so we would get a tarpit and objectiv grabber battleline. Now we have to use our Ally points. They could have brought to much better mileage, if you squeezed Arkhan, VoZD or Neferata in instead.

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19 hours ago, clammby204 said:

Hi guys,

Newb question: Does Death abilities like Deathless Minion apply to all Death sub-factions?

Say my main sub faction is Soulblight etc..

No, if you read the trait in the ghb, it only applies the units with the keyword 'soulblight' so not any allies. 

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14 hours ago, clammby204 said:

I'm talking about Deathless Minions, not Deathless Thralls.

Also, thank you, Spiny Norman.

So if you choose to take a soulblight army, you cannot use deathless minions even on allies, you must use deathless thralls. If you want to take any of the generic death abilities you are taking a death army and deathless minions applies to everything, but you can't get the soulblight stuff

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