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Xanax Lot

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22 minutes ago, Rubencm81 said:

Guys, playing tomorrow, any suggestions for a 2k list?  Double scorch? No problem from player receiving a stormfiends list.

And my list was:

Chaos Alliance: 

- Verminlord Corruptor ( general, +1 to wound, and 6+ to wound causes mortal wounds)

- Arch Warlock 

- warlock

- 2 Pack mastesrs

- 3 x (20) Clanrats

-6 Stormfiends with Shock-guantlets 

-1 warplightning cannon

- 3 rattling guns

 

Use the comand ability of the vermi lord on the stormfiends and the two psckmasters on the stormfiends, try to use the clsnrats for objectives and to gent the stormfiends to fight what you want.

Use the rattling guns and warp-lightning cannon to kill threats/shooty units

This combo allows your stormfinds to do 80wounds before saves 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Flood said:

I put mine on 50mm but really regret it. They just dont look as good as 60mm. Also, if you look on the gw website, theres an allies set with stormfiends, and im pretty sure they are modeled on 60mm. 

I agree here. I put mine on 60mm bases and they look great.  Also the ones in the Grand Alliance Chaos book look to be modeled on 60s (though it can be hard to tell in pictures).

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4 hours ago, Xanax Lot said:

And my list was:

Chaos Alliance: 

- Verminlord Corruptor ( general, +1 to wound, and 6+ to wound causes mortal wounds)

- Arch Warlock 

- warlock

- 2 Pack mastesrs

- 3 x (20) Clanrats

-6 Stormfiends with Shock-guantlets 

-1 warplightning cannon

- 3 rattling guns

 

Use the comand ability of the vermi lord on the stormfiends and the two psckmasters on the stormfiends, try to use the clsnrats for objectives and to gent the stormfiends to fight what you want.

Use the rattling guns and warp-lightning cannon to kill threats/shooty units

This combo allows your stormfinds to do 80wounds before saves 

 

 

 

If you drop one ratling gun, you can get 3x40 clanrats instead of 3x20. I'd say the extra 60 rats make up for the loss of a single ratling gun ;)

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Just read through this thread - for those with the Deceiver, remember that he can't teleport himself - he doesn't have the SKAVEN keyword! EDIT: turns out he's an exception to his own rule

I've also done the math, even if you consider first turn sitting out, it takes 4 packmasters to make shock gauntlets better than warpfire throwers on stormfiends. Clubbing Blows is no joke, and warpfire is the bee's knees, and makes stormfiends some of the most points-efficient killers in the game.

Skryre batallion is now too expensive for what it does, even with gascloud ("the new hotness"). You can squeeze in more stormfiends for that cost, and that will always serve you better.

I take a unit of 6 stormfiends, 1 with grinder fist and 5 with warpfire projectors. Backfield dominance.
I also like Jezzails in units of at least 9.
If you're taking Jezzails, generic Chaos ability Lord of War is better than *anything* else.
Skryre allegiance abilities are't good enough, and I've had 3 models in two games flat out die from warp spark usage. (rolled a 1, then rolled a 6... 3 times).

The rest is up to you.

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39 minutes ago, foolsama said:

Just read through this thread - for those with the Deceiver, remember that he can't teleport himself - he doesn't have the SKAVEN keyword! EDIT: turns out he's an exception to his own rule

I've also done the math, even if you consider first turn sitting out, it takes 4 packmasters to make shock gauntlets better than warpfire throwers on stormfiends. Clubbing Blows is no joke, and warpfire is the bee's knees, and makes stormfiends some of the most points-efficient killers in the game.

Skryre batallion is now too expensive for what it does, even with gascloud ("the new hotness"). You can squeeze in more stormfiends for that cost, and that will always serve you better.

I take a unit of 6 stormfiends, 1 with grinder fist and 5 with warpfire projectors. Backfield dominance.
I also like Jezzails in units of at least 9.
If you're taking Jezzails, generic Chaos ability Lord of War is better than *anything* else.
Skryre allegiance abilities are't good enough, and I've had 3 models in two games flat out die from warp spark usage. (rolled a 1, then rolled a 6... 3 times).

The rest is up to you.

 I think more that 2 packmasters is not worth it.

The average wound output on a 4+ save is the folloeing for 6 stormfiends with two pack masters:

1. Warp fire : 24 shooting + 13 combat= 37

2. Grinderfists: 33 combat

3. Shock: 45 combat

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Xanax Lot said:

 I think more that 2 packmasters is not worth it.

The average wound output on a 4+ save is the folloeing for 6 stormfiends with two pack masters:

1. Warp fire : 24 shooting + 13 combat= 37

2. Grinderfists: 33 combat

3. Shock: 45 combat

 

 

Agreed. All my shock gauntlet stormfiends mathmagics have assumed no more than two packmaster - not counting whatever other bonuses to hit available (like the +1 to hit skryre artifact, or the chaos allegiance bonuses)

In opposition of the other guy: I don't see how the math supports warpfire over shock gauntlets. You can't shoot them after coming out of a tunnel (since outside of 9), and if you're that close, you might as well start swinging.

That being said, if you do deepstrike a single unit of stormfiends, warpfire is better, since the packmasters can't follow. In any case where the packmasters can drop their buff, shock gauntlets are far superior.

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5 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Agreed. All my shock gauntlet stormfiends mathmagics have assumed no more than two packmaster - not counting whatever other bonuses to hit available (like the +1 to hit skryre artifact, or the chaos allegiance bonuses)

In opposition of the other guy: I don't see how the math supports warpfire over shock gauntlets. You can't shoot them after coming out of a tunnel (since outside of 9), and if you're that close, you might as well start swinging.

That being said, if you do deepstrike a single unit of stormfiends, warpfire is better, since the packmasters can't follow. In any case where the packmasters can drop their buff, shock gauntlets are far superior.

Agree, in top of that packmasters ability is in the hero phase, tunneling out is in the movement phase.

So even if you had clever placing you won't be able to give the buffs the turn they come out.

To make things worse you are dependanr on a 3+ roll to make sure your stormfiends come out the turn you need them 

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Hi guys! Now we are talking about stormfiends.....what is the most optimal configuration for a gautfyre scorch?It is 150 points but being able to deepstrike anywhere and kill the most problematic unit.... !I have been running 5 warpflame, 3 Stormfiends with flame and 3 with rattling guns. At 2k.

I do not know if the batallion is worth anymore or just moving into grinderfist +rattling.

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4 minutes ago, Mayple said:

I don't see how the math supports warpfire over shock gauntlets. You can't shoot them after coming out of a tunnel (since outside of 9), and if you're that close, you might as well start swinging.

That being said, if you do deepstrike a single unit of stormfiends, warpfire is better, since the packmasters can't follow. In any case where the packmasters can drop their buff, shock gauntlets are far superior.

Assume average damages, and a 4+ save.
Warpfire, if in range, is average of 3 damage per model (1.5x2), so 3/100 is .03 damage per point spent.
Clubbing Blows with no buffs works out to .02 damage per point.
Let's assume tunneled stormfiends, so no shooting first round, and say they survive 3 rounds. That's 3+3 (2 rounds of shooting) +8 (+4 if they get the charge off) (4 rounds of combat) = 18 damage per fiend over the course of 3 rounds.

Shockers will average 2 wounds per model, per combat phase. So, in essence you get the same result of the warpfire without the shooting, so the damage loss is obvious.

Once you add in the packmasters, the damage goes up, but so does the cost, and the lack of shooting, and if you want to tunnel, they're useless...

 

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8 minutes ago, Rubencm81 said:

Hi guys! Now we are talking about stormfiends.....what is the most optimal configuration for a gautfyre scorch?It is 150 points but being able to deepstrike anywhere and kill the most problematic unit.... !I have been running 5 warpflame, 3 Stormfiends with flame and 3 with rattling guns. At 2k.

I do not know if the batallion is worth anymore or just moving into grinderfist +rattling.

It's not worth it any more. You lose too much.

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7 minutes ago, foolsama said:

Assume average damages, and a 4+ save.
Warpfire, if in range, is average of 3 damage per model (1.5x2), so 3/100 is .03 damage per point spent.
Clubbing Blows with no buffs works out to .02 damage per point.
Let's assume tunneled stormfiends, so no shooting first round, and say they survive 3 rounds. That's 3+3 (2 rounds of shooting) +8 (+4 if they get the charge off) (4 rounds of combat) = 18 damage per fiend over the course of 3 rounds.

Shockers will average 2 wounds per model, per combat phase. So, in essence you get the same result of the warpfire without the shooting, so the damage loss is obvious.

Once you add in the packmasters, the damage goes up, but so does the cost, and the lack of shooting, and if you want to tunnel, they're useless...

 

My whole point is that buffed shock gauntlets are superior to warpfire :P since the latter can not be buffed. In the absence of any buffs, warpfire is better, but you will, generally, try to buff your dudes one way or another in a list, which is where the shock gauntlets shine, extra wounds aside. 

For shooting, you are actually better off taking a big chunk of poison wind globadiers - assuming you went with shock-fiends and wanted to compensate the shooting output. 

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1 hour ago, Rubencm81 said:

I tried it last weekned and killed 1 King  terrorgheist, 1 Varghulf and 30 ghouls in one shot, but why do I lose too much?

50-60 wounds is awesome, but then what? I just don't feel like it's enough to counter something like a well-played Tzeencth or Blades of Khorne list - or even any horde list with more than, say 110 wounds. I've played it against Seraphon and got my ass handed to me.

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24 minutes ago, foolsama said:

50-60 wounds is awesome, but then what? I just don't feel like it's enough to counter something like a well-played Tzeencth or Blades of Khorne list - or even any horde list with more than, say 110 wounds. I've played it against Seraphon and got my ass handed to me.

Hahahha I think you should stick to the warpfire proyectors! Since its what you like.

For tzeenitch we do have a problem... Skyfires are hard to counter unless you have a deciever and jezzails.

Khorne will have a a hard time againts shock-fiends if you screen them correctly. Khorne usually dont have a 4+ in their units so wound output would be much higher.

And if 47-70 wound output is to low for you I think you might be searching for a unit that doesnt exist in the skaven roaster that is 

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Can you put in your actual list, then? It may be that I'm trying to shoehorn in too many things, but I found my Skorch team too ineffective, and my backfield team too short on defensive power. I was playing Knife to the Heart, and my opponent can teach seminars on bubble-wrapping.

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8 minutes ago, foolsama said:

Can you put in your actual list, then? It may be that I'm trying to shoehorn in too many things, but I found my Skorch team too ineffective, and my backfield team too short on defensive power. I was playing Knife to the Heart, and my opponent can teach seminars on bubble-wrapping.

Sure! here it is if it helps, it has worked well for me against seraphon ogors, death and khorne... But to be honest i havent tried it against skyfires and I thibk it would struggle 

 

Shock%20Bomb.pdf

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My Scorch team is 5 flamethrowers ( weapon team) 3 stormfiends with warpfire proyectors and 3 with ratling guns.

This is 5d6 mortal wounds+ 6d3 mortal wounds+9d6 rend 1 shots. Add the engineer ability to add +1 to hit  with Vigordust injector and well, you have  a pretty nasty output damage with the ratlings

As allies I took 2 packmasters go to with 3 fiends with shock to keep them as objective catcher.

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