Swifthawk Agents -Post GH2017

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

My initial buy into AoS was the Spire of Dawn box set. The deal was too good to pass up. I even justified to myself, that at that price I would be OK if I threw the models away after a few games. After GH2017, I wonder if this is where I should go. I was super excited going in with allies and massive regiments, etc, but then I couldn't find points for our battalion. Pretty much the only thing that made them somewhat decent. 

Where do I go from here with my Swifthawks? How are other players planning the future for there models? 

[Gorthor21]

If youre endeared to high elves i would recommend either picking up some swifthawks either with GW or second hand.  You should be able to find some on either eBay or a forumn trade board. Once you have enough of them taking a smaller force of eldritch counsel should be easy to include as an ally.  

[chord]

1 hour ago, NoTurtlesAllowed said:

My initial buy into AoS was the Spire of Dawn box set. The deal was too good to pass up. I even justified to myself, that at that price I would be OK if I threw the models away after a few games. After GH2017, I wonder if this is where I should go. I was super excited going in with allies and massive regiments, etc, but then I couldn't find points for our battalion. Pretty much the only thing that made them somewhat decent. 

Where do I go from here with my Swifthawks? How are other players planning the future for there models? 

Agreed, they are my second army, the missing battalion from the Spire of Dawn is horribly disappointing.  It wasn't even that good compared to others.

they can still be fun I believe using the order allegiance.  

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

My go to command trait in reckless doesnt work the same either. No more bullet trains

[flowerpot_chimp]

10 hours ago, chord said:

Agreed, they are my second army, the missing battalion from the Spire of Dawn is horribly disappointing.  It wasn't even that good compared to others.

they can still be fun I believe using the order allegiance.  

I recently picked up a couple spire of dawn boxes and was disappointed to see they hadn't pointed up guardians of the dawn spire in handbook 2017.

If you go into Azyr however, the battalion does still appear in the matched play section, at its original points value. 

This is probably an oversight but does something being in azyr make it 'matched play legal'? 

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

1 minute ago, flowerpot_chimp said:

I recently picked up a couple spire of dawn boxes and was disappointed to see they hadn't pointed up guardians of the dawn spire in handbook 2017.

If you go into Azyr however, the battalion does still appear in the matched play section, at its original points value. 

This is probably an oversight but does something being in azyr make it 'matched play legal'? 

I think we need to wait and see, since the Azyr still has compendium units that no longer have scrolls and no point breaks for massive regiments

[TheNotebookGM]

This is where I'm heading once I get to 1,500 with bonesplitterz unless skygrots exist by then so I hope they get more love.

[flowerpot_chimp]

On 8/27/2017 at 11:23 AM, NoTurtlesAllowed said:

I think we need to wait and see, since the Azyr still has compendium units that no longer have scrolls and no point breaks for massive regiments

For what it's worth, Guardians of the Dawnspire still exists, and is still 40 points in the updated Scrollbuilder (we still probably need an official response on it). I know newest content overrules older content, but is there precedence for a newer book just not listing points for something that has had them printed previously? 

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

My only argument would have been the rules come in the box, but the box is no longer available. IDK. We need a response. 

[Thomas Lyons]

On August 27, 2017 at 6:21 AM, flowerpot_chimp said:

This is probably an oversight but does something being in azyr make it 'matched play legal'? 

 

On August 30, 2017 at 2:43 AM, flowerpot_chimp said:

For what it's worth, Guardians of the Dawnspire still exists, and is still 40 points in the updated Scrollbuilder (we still probably need an official response on it). I know newest content overrules older content, but is there precedence for a newer book just not listing points for something that has had them printed previously? 

 

11 hours ago, NoTurtlesAllowed said:

My only argument would have been the rules come in the box, but the box is no longer available. IDK. We need a response. 

The GHB2017 says that not all matched play profiles are found in it and that the points will be with warscroll rules/models.  This is what we see with Spire of Dawn.  The battalion comes in a starter book and has rules contained within alongside points.  See attached images.  Until GW says otherwise, the battalion should be matched play legal.  This is only reinforced by its presence in the AOS app.  Ultimately, you will need to check with TOs.

[Toddy]

I have a force of Swifthawk Agents, but have reluctantly decided to concentrate on some other armies until there is some sign from GW that they intend to support the range.

Despite their continued presence in GB17, Reavers and Spireguard (which typically are going to make up your Battleline) are in no way purchasable from the GW (uk) site (Spire of Dawn no longer exists at all on the Uk site). Perhaps they'll get standalone reboxings at some point in the future, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[chord]

With the Swifthawks because they don't have any allegiance abilities, you can mix in any order forces with them for matched play.   

 

[WABBIT]

7 minutes ago, Toddy said:

I have a force of Swifthawk Agents, but have reluctantly decided to concentrate on some other armies until there is some sign from GW that they intend to support the range.

Despite their continued presence in GB17, Reavers and Spireguard (which typically are going to make up your Battleline) are in no way purchasable from the GW (uk) site (Spire of Dawn no longer exists at all on the Uk site). Perhaps they'll get standalone reboxings at some point in the future, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

There must be tons available on eBay as those models have been around for years. I know thats no reassurance but they are still in the GHB2017 so you'll have a year of them at least! 

[Toddy]

10 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

There must be tons available on eBay as those models have been around for years. I know thats no reassurance but they are still in the GHB2017 so you'll have a year of them at least! 

Of course, but I personally have no interest in investing in an army that GW have already (officially or not) marked as 'legacy'.

[WABBIT]

Just now, Toddy said:

Of course, but I personally have no interest in investing in an army that GW have already (officially or not) marked as 'legacy'.

Yeah I don't blame you. I already have the models so I'm ok with it. I can get some use out of them before they are resigned to the storage box of doom or worse....ebay!

[Groje]

I also felt disappointed when they did not mention the batallions in GHB2017 and also did not make shadow warriors or chariots cheaper (funny mass discount for elite scouts..)

nevertheless in my 1k Spire of dawn list with 20 Spire guard list I can now replace the sword masters, archmage and batallion by shadow warriors, a Loremaster and a chariot:

- High warden

- 20 Spireguard

- 5 reaver

- 10 shadow warriors 

- chariot

- Loremaster

1000 points

 

by that at least the high Warden will be much more reliable thanks to hand of glory and the chariot is another super fast objective grabber. Still need to test the new setup. It will require well thought play, but that's enjoyable as well

 

 

 

 

[WABBIT]

One unit that benefits slightly more than most from massive regiments is the Spire guard. Why? Because they can shoot so they can project their full attacks onto a foe. Many Massive regiments are melee units and its hard to get all 30 or 40 troops into combat especially if they less than 2" attack range. The Spireguard 2" range spears means you should be able to get all 30 in combat a lot easier (Especially against another horde) if they are in 3 lines of 10. Mine are still on old 25mm square bases so i don't know if that makes a difference? I assume round 25mm is a little bigger but you can stack them through the curve  to get the attacks inside 2".

@Groje Can you squeeze another 10 Spire guard into that list? Shadow warriors aren't all that good as you say. They are pricey because they effectively have 3 attacks a turn and 1 of them is at range with a reroll if in cover. The Vanguard move is potent in objective grabbing games too. They may all die very quickly but in a large block they can hold long enough and 30 means they can all shoot as per the Spire guard assessment above. You're paying for a multirole unit with better than average battleline stats so at 500 pts for 30 they may be better than we think - only one way to find out

 

At 120pts per 10 spire guard and 200pts for 10 shadow warriors they are a little too expensive but they become viable in massive regiments (100pts and 133.333pts respectively for 10) Saving 100pts for the 3rd line of Shadow warriors brings is a big saving. Something to think about if you grow to a 2000pts Warhost.

Goodluck let us know how you get on with the list!

[Groje]

Absolutely true, 30 spireguards look very tempting. But I would need to buy and paint them first. My shadow warriors instead are already painted very nicely ?

Could take them out and the chariot as well, and bring in a sky warden with banner for the +1 to wound, 10 more Spireguard and a lonely Gryphhound to prevent deep strikes and let him go for objectives. But the sky Warden takes even more time, is on the far end of  my priority list...

[WABBIT]

Sometimes you just want to ignore the stats and play the army you want to play because it looks good and you just painted it. Who knows your opponent my feel the same so have a chat and mention you haven't brought a competitive min/Max filth list type army etc and they bring the same kind of army as you. We can all get a little lost chasing the most optimal lists but sometimes that just isn't fun. However neither is getting tabled in 20 minutes because you brought flowers and he brought nukes.  

[chord]

2 hours ago, WABBIT said:

One unit that benefits slightly more than most from massive regiments is the Spire guard. Why? Because they can shoot so they can project their full attacks onto a foe. Many Massive regiments are melee units

WOW you just blew my mind!  I'm not sure why I didn't realize that till you said it.  

[chord]

Here are my 2K point plans for the Spire of DawnBox Set (high elves mixed with stormcast)  I don't want to invest in more models at this point (in terms of high elves) until we know more.  It's got a lot of shooty fun, plus some heavy hitters as well as 3 mages. 

Allegiance: Order
High Warden (220)
Drakeseer (300)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Loremaster (100)
Archmage (120)
Knight-Venator (120)
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: Reckless
5 x Reavers (160) Battleline
5 x Reavers (160) Battleline
10 x Spireguard (120)
10 x Swordmasters (180)
5 x Liberators (100) Battleline
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)

Total: 2000/2000

[WABBIT]

53 minutes ago, chord said:

WOW you just blew my mind!  I'm not sure why I didn't realize that till you said it.  

Well if you like that look at shadow warriors at 30. They suddenly from way too expensive to pretty good. Need to test it out though.

[chord]

Just now, WABBIT said:

Well if you like that look at shadow warriors at 30. They suddenly from way too expensive to pretty good. Need to test it out though.

I'm still not sold on shadow warriors at their current point level, even with discount.  they look awesome though for narrative play!

[Freejack02]

11 minutes ago, chord said:

I'm still not sold on shadow warriors at their current point level, even with discount.  they look awesome though for narrative play!

Agreed, the 200 point price tag was only justified when using Alith Anar - without him they are simply not worth the cost. 

[Thomas Lyons]

26 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Agreed, the 200 point price tag was only justified when using Alith Anar - without him they are simply not worth the cost. 

They need two bow shots per round.