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Let's Chat: Seraphon 2017


tolstedt

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3 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

I agree, the problem Is dracothion battalion have many interpretations . 

In lustria online forum some people say that dracothion is a summon .. So you can set up 3 different unit and after you can t cast in this turn, other guys say that that summon not count as spell.. So you can summon your saurus army from battalion and after you can cast 3 spells normally:)

As listed in the battalion it does not count as casting a spell.

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It can't be a summon battalion. You can't summon units from this battalion. You pay and put into game all things that came into a Dracothion's Tail battalion and as bonus you can make those stres-free summons of units of the same kind as used before.

Interpretations like "I pay for 40 Saurus Warriors and then I can summon them for free" since they are part of battalion are wrong since:
1. There is nothing about setting units aside in battalion
2. There is no such spell that allows to summon 40 Saurus Warriors
3. You can't pay in advance for summoning

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My belief is that this isn't a way of 'deep striking' your army like SCE.

Its a case of you can attempt to summon an additional unit of something you already have without it counting towards the number of spells the hero can cast in a turn. Points and restrictions (i.e., numbers/distances) of the spell still apply.

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The current mess around list I'm considering is this.. 

Leaders Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)

Oldblood on Carnosaur (280)

Slann Starmaster (260)

Engine of the Gods (220)

Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (280)

5 x Saurus Knights (100)

5 x Saurus Knights (100)

5 x Saurus Knights (100)

Dracothion's Tail (60)

Firelance Starhost (110)

 

And then being able to summon  in a fourth carno reasonably reliably with either the formation or the engine. Don't think it would necessarily do well on the table but.. dinosaurs so who cares!

 

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3 hours ago, RoyalDachshund said:

It can't be a summon battalion. You can't summon units from this battalion. You pay and put into game all things that came into a Dracothion's Tail battalion and as bonus you can make those stres-free summons of units of the same kind as used before.

Interpretations like "I pay for 40 Saurus Warriors and then I can summon them for free" since they are part of battalion are wrong since:
1. There is nothing about setting units aside in battalion
2. There is no such spell that allows to summon 40 Saurus Warriors
3. You can't pay in advance for summoning


It's a totally worthless ability if your interpretation is correct.
 I find it pretty clear that this is intended to be a deepstrike battalion.

"In the hero phase, Kuoteq can cast any number of summoning spells that summon Saurus units the the battlefield, as long as each unit that he summons comes from this battalion."

What else could that possible mean?

"...can summon a Saurus Eternity Warden from this battalion...and a Saurus Sunblood from this battalion..."

They are clearly coming from the battalion you built.

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3 hours ago, RoyalDachshund said:

It can't be a summon battalion. You can't summon units from this battalion. You pay and put into game all things that came into a Dracothion's Tail battalion and as bonus you can make those stres-free summons of units of the same kind as used before.

Interpretations like "I pay for 40 Saurus Warriors and then I can summon them for free" since they are part of battalion are wrong since:
1. There is nothing about setting units aside in battalion
2. There is no such spell that allows to summon 40 Saurus Warriors
3. You can't pay in advance for summoning

Clearly its intended that you can summon any unit that can be considered part of the battilion. The way I'll be playing it is taking the minimum number of units to actually fill the formation and any subformations (firelance, eternal etc) and putting them into my list then keeping everything else as reinforcement points. Itts clunky and weird, and the only other option is building a list around what can be summoned with 20man units.

3 minutes ago, tolstedt said:


It's a totally worthless ability if your interpretation is correct.
 I find it pretty clear that this is intended to be a deepstrike battalion.

"In the hero phase, Kuoteq can cast any number of summoning spells that summon Saurus units the the battlefield, as long as each unit that he summons comes from this battalion."

What else could that possible mean?

"...can summon a Saurus Eternity Warden from this battalion...and a Saurus Sunblood from this battalion..."

They are clearly coming from the battalion you built.

 

I wouldnt say deep strike, as you are limited by what the limit of spell actually is. So you can max summon 20 warriors or 10 guard for example. The benefits of not needing a summoning roll is that you can always elect to activate the 10+ casting roll ability for more guys.

A bonus for teleporting the slann and then summoning is that even if it fails and you roll that 1, you can still cast spells.

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19 minutes ago, Meatgrinder said:

Clearly its intended that you can summon any unit that can be considered part of the battilion. The way I'll be playing it is taking the minimum number of units to actually fill the formation and any subformations (firelance, eternal etc) and putting them into my list then keeping everything else as reinforcement points. Itts clunky and weird, and the only other option is building a list around what can be summoned with 20man units.

 

I wouldnt say deep strike, as you are limited by what the limit of spell actually is. So you can max summon 20 warriors or 10 guard for example. The benefits of not needing a summoning roll is that you can always elect to activate the 10+ casting roll ability for more guys.

A bonus for teleporting the slann and then summoning is that even if it fails and you roll that 1, you can still cast spells.

If there are people interpreting it so drastically differently, then we need an FAQ.

In my mind it's meant to be like warrior brotherhood with range limits on deploying the summoned units.
 

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6 hours ago, tolstedt said:

If there are people interpreting it so drastically differently, then we need an FAQ.

In my mind it's meant to be like warrior brotherhood with range limits on deploying the summoned units.
 

No kidding. I never even had a doubt about it loll:P

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Good evening people,

Looking at a force of imaginary dinosaurs for my first GHB17 army, do you think this could work...not looking to win a GT but not looking to be smashed every game (mostly tournaments for play, just fits my schedule) 

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
Skink Starpriest (80)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (280)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
40 x Skinks (200)
40 x Saurus Warriors (360)

Units
3 x Ripperdactyl Riders (140)
4 x Salamanders (160)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)

Battalions
Shadowstrike Starhost (170)

Total: 1990/2000

So...We use the skinks double bite damage on the saurus or carnesaur

Salamanders teleported, handlers summoned try to down a monster or dwindle a horde

Two big dinos and horde of saurus walk (teleport) up the board into the opponents face giving them the option to deal with the forward threat or turn to the salamanders.

Skinks 40 go to range and try to dwindle enemy units, 10 stay back and try to hold an objective

Rippers swoop in near their toad and unleash all they can on a lightly armoured unit...+1 to wound, 3 bite, 3+ to hit reroll misses, 3+ to wound reroll, exploding hits...should be nasty.

Not sure on abilities or artefacts as I'm at work without my book...this will be my first AoS army i'll play with had a khorne force last year but had a car accident just before my first tournament and had to sell to fund the time off work. 

Any hints or tips or stuff you can clearly see I missed, any help greatly appreciated.
 

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23 minutes ago, Lardidar said:

Good evening people,

Looking at a force of imaginary dinosaurs for my first GHB17 army, do you think this could work...not looking to win a GT but not looking to be smashed every game (mostly tournaments for play, just fits my schedule) 

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
Skink Starpriest (80)
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (280)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
40 x Skinks (200)
40 x Saurus Warriors (360)

Units
3 x Ripperdactyl Riders (140)
4 x Salamanders (160)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)

Battalions
Shadowstrike Starhost (170)

Total: 1990/2000

So...We use the skinks double bite damage on the saurus or carnesaur

Salamanders teleported, handlers summoned try to down a monster or dwindle a horde

Two big dinos and horde of saurus walk (teleport) up the board into the opponents face giving them the option to deal with the forward threat or turn to the salamanders.

Skinks 40 go to range and try to dwindle enemy units, 10 stay back and try to hold an objective

Rippers swoop in near their toad and unleash all they can on a lightly armoured unit...+1 to wound, 3 bite, 3+ to hit reroll misses, 3+ to wound reroll, exploding hits...should be nasty.

Not sure on abilities or artefacts as I'm at work without my book...this will be my first AoS army i'll play with had a khorne force last year but had a car accident just before my first tournament and had to sell to fund the time off work. 

Any hints or tips or stuff you can clearly see I missed, any help greatly appreciated.
 

Are you really allowed to summon the handlers, since they are part of the battalion? 

But seems solid. Personally I like the rippers in a unit of 6. The first A-bomb deals incredible damage reliably. Think it's about 50 wounds before save. I would exchange 40 saurus for another 40 skinks in the battalion to fond the points. And maybe switch the 10 skinks for 10 saurus. Should be the same point value. 

Play "catch me if you can" :)

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9 minutes ago, Screamer said:

Are you really allowed to summon the handlers, since they are part of the battalion? 

Hmm, very good question!  Hang on...they are not part of the batallion are they? 1 priest, 2 skinks, 1 flyer or have I missed something?

It was the 50mm bases that worried me about 6..I'd have loved to have gone for that. I like your other changes...food for thought, thanks.

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60 points for a big one drop of 3/4 of your army AND free and safe summoning is not enough?

There are many interpretations of the battalion BUT there is no wording or mention on setting part of army on side so they can be summoned later on. This is crucial the crucial part.

You put X into battalion, pay for it, put it on table and then you can cast a spell that allows summoning of X without rolling or taking up a spell slot and placing *after paying from your pool* it into game.

A 60 points battalion that could allow you to summon big blocks of units without any risk in a high range (boost the Toad) would be bonkers. Think about it. Your opponent will be limited to either keep his formation and move forward with the speed of slowest units to be shielded all the time or be brutaly punished by your ability to place entire army the way you want. 60 points for buffable deep strike.

 

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I'd also like to have a clarification about that bataillon.

I like both variants discussed here  (of course I prefer the deepstriking one) and I would try it out in any case.

For Saurus Warrior hordes it might not be that great if it is the "summon more of the same" variant but putting some Knights or Guards behind the enemy isn't weak at all. The sad thing about it: newly summoned stuff can't use Bataillon bonuses which makes summoned Knights or Guards considerable weaker. So I imagine that the really competitive guys would maybe just take the Bataillon to get less drops and another item and rarely use the summon.

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1 hour ago, RoyalDachshund said:

60 points for a big one drop of 3/4 of your army AND free and safe summoning is not enough?

There are many interpretations of the battalion BUT there is no wording or mention on setting part of army on side so they can be summoned later on. This is crucial the crucial part.

You put X into battalion, pay for it, put it on table and then you can cast a spell that allows summoning of X without rolling or taking up a spell slot and placing *after paying from your pool* it into game.

A 60 points battalion that could allow you to summon big blocks of units without any risk in a high range (boost the Toad) would be bonkers. Think about it. Your opponent will be limited to either keep his formation and move forward with the speed of slowest units to be shielded all the time or be brutaly punished by your ability to place entire army the way you want. 60 points for buffable deep strike.

 

I might be wrong, but to be completly honest, I believe the intent of the writer was to have the units "deep striking", you pay points for a unit, leave it to the side and than you can bring it whenever you want theough a summoning spell.

It is not a 60pts battalion, it is a 170pts battalion with several restrsints ( the slann can die, the charges are 9"  charges, and you can only summon saurus)

This is probably going to be an endless discussion like it was with summoning before...and in the same case where the FAQ ended up rulling that you can summon any warscroll with a slann even if you dont have it on your army; I bet they are going to end up saying that dracothians tail works as a deep striking battalion, you pay for units put them to the side and than bring them to the tsble trough summoning

 

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I've recused myself from discussing these interpretations.

It must be noted that the battalion is 170 points.

I've played with the battalion using my interpretation and it's not at all "bonkers".  You do not get to "place an entire army the way that you want", even with an astrolith and balewind.  The 9" restriction remains.  Making 9" charges remains.

Has anyone else played with it yet?  It's a ton of fun and gives lots of tactical and strategic tools.  

The oldblood on carnosaur is very powerful with the jaws against low save models.
I think we have an issue of lack of killy units.  I used 10 temple guard which, when boosted by an eternity warden, are strong, but must avoid being mortal wounded off.  I was often teleporting a the warden and guard together, and the scar vet and knights together.

Knights on the charge with the firelance can do good work as well against low save models.

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Morning, so having slept on it I made some changes to the list.

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Slann Starmaster (260)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
Skink Starpriest (80)
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)

Battleline
40 x Skinks (200)
40 x Skinks (200)
10 x Saurus Warriors (100)

Units
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
4 x Salamanders (160)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)

Battalions
Shadowstrike Starhost (170)

Total: 1990/2000
 

I love the lord celestant model and he seemed to fit the role of combat character well, the gryphhound may make people thing twice about teleporting near 80 skinks with blowpipes.

It will also help the narrative, stormacast army crushed as the celestant awaits his inevitable death, suddenly he becomes aware of the slaan...the slaan remembers and the shadowstike starhost attacks.

Changes could be made to make the saurus another 10 skinks, that would free up room for another salamander? Edit: Scrap that 4 is the max, hmm...

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2 hours ago, Meatgrinder said:

Pretty sure we are all in agreement that there is no reason to ever not take a slann right? Have to go out and buy one now that theyve recieved all this love. I think the advantages they bring far outweigh their costs.

I can't imagine not taking the Slann.  Yesterday I used him to unbind all of my opponent's spells.  He got off one mystic shield.  

I had arcane, astrolith, and constellation for a +3.  Very strong.  

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20 hours ago, Lardidar said:

Hmm, very good question!  Hang on...they are not part of the batallion are they? 1 priest, 2 skinks, 1 flyer or have I missed something?

It was the 50mm bases that worried me about 6..I'd have loved to have gone for that. I like your other changes...food for thought, thanks.

Isn't it krox or sallies/razors with handlers? Or maybe I mix it up with thunderquake

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5 hours ago, tolstedt said:

I can't imagine not taking the Slann.  Yesterday I used him to unbind all of my opponent's spells.  He got off one mystic shield.  

I had arcane, astrolith, and constellation for a +3.  Very strong.  

Nice. By the way you mean 3+ just for the spells right ? Because astrolith works only for spells if I am not mistaken ?

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  • 3 weeks later...

So have you guys played some matches yet? I'm quite interested in some of your experience reports. What is working for you and what is not?

All the silence here is giving me the feeling that the lizards, after some initial hype with the GH2017-release, quickly regained their ignored status of the previous edition (at least in this forum). Why is that so? Do we need a major tournament win at first to create some interest in here? >.<

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