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Sigwarus

Stacks are out! New FAQ

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If you read the fresh FAQ that arraived from GW this evening you will recognize that stacks are now removed with changed wordings on the warscrolls. 

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I saw this with Dispossessed Runelords and Aetherkhemists.

Did khorne lose stacks as well?

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I'm not sure what people mean by buff stacking. Can someone define it please? 

We talking about stacking the exact same buff several times, or stacking several different buffs on one unit. If we mean the latter then I will cry and build a different army. 

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I'm pretty sure that some things, like the Lord Castellant's ability, are still stackable based on the current wording. It's those things that refer to being within range of any models that do such and such that no longer stack.

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Lol, I need a break.  I just read the title of this thread and thought that GW had released something called "Stacks" and I had missed some announcement. 9_9

In either case, it's good to have a clarification, one way or another.  Having a limit on abilities like that is a step towards programming logic in my eye, in this case being a true/false statement for something affecting a model.  Any step towards programming logic in rules design is a good one in my book.

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52 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

I'm pretty sure that some things, like the Lord Castellant's ability, are still stackable based on the current wording. It's those things that refer to being within range of any models that do such and such that no longer stack.

Well they just changed a lot of wordings in the FAQ to "being in range of any...". That wasn´t the wording on al of those scrolls before. Its true that stacking still exist in some cases but the most abused ones were changed. Bloodsecrator, Treelord stomp, kemist an so on.

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2 hours ago, Sheriff said:

I'm not sure what people mean by buff stacking. Can someone define it please? 

We talking about stacking the exact same buff several times, or stacking several different buffs on one unit. If we mean the latter then I will cry and build a different army. 

It's only stacking the same buff that this rule applies to. Stacking buffs of different names, even if they have the same affect, is still very much ok. Wording is in the other thread if you need to see it.

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Harbinger of decay's Morbid Vigour , Skaven Pestilen's prayer Whither, and more powerful abilities can still stack.  

 

I find it hard to believe that this wasn't the intent and that they meant to ban all stacking not just some.

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GW - great move, bravo!

I would have preferred that all 'Same Ability Stacking' would have been eliminated through a new Rule of 1, but I'll live with this version...

For the record, I have no problems with stacking buffs of different names...

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25 minutes ago, Veillotron said:

 

For the record, I have no problems with stacking buffs of different names...

Only problem is that this question is still in the FAQ:

Screenshot_20170825-210620.jpg.68e6e17978e0a34a9f1f0a7a1825017a.jpg

This, of course, implies some abilities will still be able to stack.

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2 minutes ago, Criti said:

Only problem is that this question is still in the FAQ:

Screenshot_20170825-210620.jpg.68e6e17978e0a34a9f1f0a7a1825017a.jpg

This, of course, implies some abilities will still be able to stack.

Indeed - they are still allowing some same abilitiy stacking (for example, the Lord-Castellan's warding light), but at least they have clearly eliminated the most abused rules, and got rid of further ones using the 'any language'. This does not contradicts the new rules (as the new rules specifically state otherwise)... So same ability stacking is not gone, but it is nonetheless a big improvment from the previous version.

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The new FAQ simply clarifies wording on abilities, and the rewording/updating of some abilities.  There is no "abilities do not stack" rule.  There are abilities that stack, and abilities that specifically state they do not stack (as per their wording clarification under the new FAQ).  I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that these changes indicate an intent to change stacking on all abilities.  Just read the ability in questions wording and weigh it up against the FAQ explanation of wording intent and see if it stacks or does not for that specific ability.

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20 minutes ago, Jharen said:

The new FAQ simply clarifies wording on abilities, and the rewording/updating of some abilities.  There is no "abilities do not stack" rule.  There are abilities that stack, and abilities that specifically state they do not stack (as per their wording clarification under the new FAQ).  I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that these changes indicate an intent to change stacking on all abilities.  Just read the ability in questions wording and weigh it up against the FAQ explanation of wording intent and see if it stacks or does not for that specific ability.

Yeah.  It's mainly a clarification that situations like the netters (Enemy model within 3" or any netters suffer -1 to hit) means that you're not applying -1 per netter, only a -1 in total if in range of any netters.

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And tbf, the only ability stacking I can think of that WASN'T an aura with any but WAS abused is the aetherkhemist and they hit him too. (Castellant was almost never stacked as the diminishing returns in a post Staunch Defender world was almost never worth the points and this wouldn't have changed hitting multiple units with multiple castellants anyway.

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Help me out here. I read the rules FAQ and Chaos FAQ so far and I didn't see anything about any abilities stacking or not . Everyone is buzzing about it, but I don't see it. I'm specifically concerned with Khorne, but I would like to know what's being referenced for general knowledge.

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44 minutes ago, SleepyDave said:

Help me out here. I read the rules FAQ and Chaos FAQ so far and I didn't see anything about any abilities stacking or not . Everyone is buzzing about it, but I don't see it. I'm specifically concerned with Khorne, but I would like to know what's being referenced for general knowledge.

The Bloodsecrator is basically the model that was the biggest change for Khorne. The old variant of Rage of Khorne was rather ambigious in wether or not it was capable to stack it's 'add 1 attack effect part'.. At this moment models under any Rage of Khorne effect can only recieve one additional attack. This means that even if a unit was under the influence of three Rage of Khorne ability effects they'd still only add 1 attack where in the old variants you could add 3 in that scenario. 

Other than that most abilities where limited in one way or another, also in part due to the new GH2017 Rules of one who cover more ground as GH2016. 

Don't be concerned though, considering 2 Bloodsecrators for the ensurance is not a bad plan, however you'll find that more than ever you will just run 1 and learn to protect it. On the other hand you can also still just thake Wrathmongers and this way obtain more attacks anyway. This plan is a really good one for practically any 2K meta because Monster (Generals) are more relevant as ever. This is the case because many Generals now have wonderful AoE effects and those are catching more models on bigger bases/bigger models, however you like to meassure distances ;) 

Edited by Killax

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On 9/4/2017 at 2:44 PM, SleepyDave said:

Help me out here. I read the rules FAQ and Chaos FAQ so far and I didn't see anything about any abilities stacking or not . Everyone is buzzing about it, but I don't see it. I'm specifically concerned with Khorne, but I would like to know what's being referenced for general knowledge.

I have the same problem. Where is the actual rule?

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6 minutes ago, Yeled said:

I have the same problem. Where is the actual rule?

The first important thing is to be specific. More than ever the term "stacks are out" is not true. It applies on a Warscroll to Warscroll basis.

So to be specific about the Bloodsecrator, the Rage of Khorne ability is reworded in such a way that it states 'any' (as per Chaos Errata) then 'any' is explained (in Rules Errata) as being functionally the same as one or more. What this translates to now is that the Bloodsecrator basically works as a Wrathmonger. Rage of Khorne adds the attack and Morale immunity but the effect remains the same for one or more 'active' Rage of Khorne.

Links:
Rules Errata (page 6, ABILITIES) https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf?fref=gc&dti=1350843714959598
 

Quote

Q: When the word ‘any’ is used in the criteria for an ability, does it mean that the ability is applied only once when the criteria for the ability are fulfilled? For example, if an ability said ‘Add 1 to hit rolls for models that are within 6" of any models with this ability’, would I add 1 to the hit rolls of a model that was within 6" of three models with the ability, or would I add 3?
A: The ability is applied only once, no matter how many times the criteria are fulfilled – ‘any’ is treated as being synonymous with ‘one or more’ in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules. In the example, this means that 1 would be added to the hit rolls, not 3.

Chaos Errata (page 2, Bloodsecrator) https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_chaos_en.pdf?fref=gc&dti=1350843714959598
 

Quote

Page 137 – Bloodsecrator, Portal of Skulls, Rage of Khorne Change to: ‘Rage of Khorne: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic for melee weapons used by friendly Khorne units while they are within 18" of any models with this ability. In addition, do not take battleshock tests for friendly Khorne units while they are within 18" of any models with this ability.’

Hope that helps.

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1 hour ago, Killax said:

The first important thing is to be specific. More than ever the term "stacks are out" is not true. It applies on a Warscroll to Warscroll basis.

So to be specific about the Bloodsecrator, the Rage of Khorne ability is reworded in such a way that it states 'any' (as per Chaos Errata) then 'any' is explained (in Rules Errata) as being functionally the same as one or more. What this translates to now is that the Bloodsecrator basically works as a Wrathmonger. Rage of Khorne adds the attack and Morale immunity but the effect remains the same for one or more 'active' Rage of Khorne.

Links:
Rules Errata (page 6, ABILITIES) https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf?fref=gc&dti=1350843714959598
 

Chaos Errata (page 2, Bloodsecrator) https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_chaos_en.pdf?fref=gc&dti=1350843714959598
 

Hope that helps.

It does, thank you.

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1 hour ago, James Ramsay said:

Need an faq on bloodshields so frustrating to have this ability stack/work at some events and not at others

I dont really know what Bloodshields are but I think it's actually a good thing that it differs per Warscroll. Despite some disliking it I actually think it's good for everybody to read their specific Warscrolls over and over and not just assume it works the 'easiest' way possible. 

To my understanding the Portal of Skulls needs to be announced every turn to have both other abilities come into effect. But recently Ive found out some don't play it like that and simply open the Portal of Skulls to have it open for the duration of the game. Something I really can't read from the ability but hey... maby Im playing it wrong since the start.

Reading and quoting specific sentences is essential for any game, including Age of Sigmar. Which is why the title of this topic is such a great example of misinformation through generalisation. Stacks are not out with the new FAQ, however some are and most you expect it on due to "power" are in fact more limited. 

Feel free to bring up any specific question though in the Rules sub forum, Im certain youll get specific awnsers.

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1 minute ago, Killax said:

I dont really know what Bloodshields are but I think it's actually a good thing that it differs per Warscroll. Despite some disliking it I actually think it's good for everybody to read their specific Warscrolls over and over and not just assume it works the 'easiest' way possible. 

To my understanding the Portal of Skulls needs to be announced every turn to have both other abilities come into effect. But recently Ive found out some don't play it like that and simply open the Portal of Skulls to have it open for the duration of the game. Something I really can't read from the ability but hey... maby Im playing it wrong since the start.

Reading and quoting specific sentences is essential for any game, including Age of Sigmar. Which is why the title of this topic is such a great example of misinformation through generalisation. Stacks are not out with the new FAQ, however some are and most you expect it on due to "power" are in fact more limited. 

Feel free to bring up any specific question though in the Rules sub forum, Im certain youll get specific awnsers.

Cauldron of blood bloodshields

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5 minutes ago, James Ramsay said:

Cauldron of blood bloodshields

Despite the wording of Bloodshields indeed being a bit vague I think the intention is the same as that of for example the Rage of Khorne and other 'any' Abilities. I feel the same awnser can be correctly used in this scenario also.
 

Quote

Q: When the word ‘any’ is used in the criteria for an ability, does it mean that the ability is applied only once when the criteria for the ability are fulfilled? For example, if an ability said ‘Add 1 to hit rolls for models that are within 6" of any models with this ability’, would I add 1 to the hit rolls of a model that was within 6" of three models with the ability, or would I add 3?
A: The ability is applied only once, no matter how many times the criteria are fulfilled – ‘any’ is treated as being synonymous with ‘one or more’ in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules. In the example, this means that 1 would be added to the hit rolls, not 3.

To then keep it as clear as possible it would lead to a 6+ save to be made after regular saves and then a 5+ for Witch Elves specifically. The latter part doesn't stack because it refers to "it and any" thus it and one or more (Bloodshield)

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