heywoah_twitch Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 11 hours ago, Chipatola said: I'm still not sure if the butchers are worth it, they give a good support, as well being able to control some objectives in certain scenarios. The mournfang are good, but really unreliable due to their 4+ to hit I thought the butchers would mitigate that, but their are really unreliable, and I tend to spread them, so I cannot stack their bonuses. I'm starting to think about trying a Braggoth BeastHammer list, even if I don't like playing greenskins in an ogre list ( eventually I will try to convert them in ogors riding giant pigs ) to give them the nice +1 to hit. That's my experience with butchers as well, I'm down to 1 atm mostly because mystic shield is too good. Two tga folks posted some battle reports with the BeastHammer they ran if you can find them around here, they were good reads. I think the consensus was that it was too awkward to keep all the big base pigs and fangs together for the buffs and list-wise, the pigs were just worse mournfangs and the battalion+reqs were restrictively expensive when trying to balance the list out with extra stuff. ymmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaticula Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Imho Butcher's an auto include right now. One! For two there isn't enough space. I am running a core of Eurlbad battalion these days, Huskard, Beastriders, two units of Mournfang. Stuff around still needs not be defined. A Huskard on Thundertusk for shooting support and definitely one small unit of Cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 On 06/11/2017 at 12:55 AM, heywoah_twitch said: Also tried Skal in various shapes and sizes, and while I definitely like two msu's of sabers running around babysitting objectives and stuff, the extra 250 for a Hunter+Battalion is totally polarizing. Really driving this feeling is how bad the Hunter's warscroll is. A hero with no rend, a 5+ save, and three conflicting jumbled ranged weapons is disheartening - and so if his deepstrike doesn't pan out you truly wasted 250 points. In the 5 or 6 games I've played with a skal I'm batting close to .500 for "allows me to rush ahead while he teleport captures // late game he swoops in to score a point" and .500 for "never really had a good opportunity to drop him into a meaningful place // he arrives, does 0 damage, then dies pathetically in some combat". I'm going to post little summary battle reports and stuff I've learned about my testing recently against seraphon, ironjaws, khorne, and some others. But I want to hear how it has been going for you guys too! Is there some Mad Lad out there winning with zero behemoths or gigantic double skals and we're all just doing it wrong? I've found the same with Skal. I've tried up to 8 (what I've painted) sabers. Larger units would be best as a kind of deepstrike tarpit but they die so fast and are a bit costly for a tarpit unit. It could also be hard to place them all with the skal ambush restrictions if there are lots. Otherwise I'd consider using them like grots... But my current plan is to buy 40 grots and a butcher to use as gutbuster allies beside a Eurlbad (I've yet to finish building and painting my 2k army so there's potential for other options if some genius BCR players find things that work super well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Currently on a deepdive into the Destruction allegiance to see what allies I can find for a Beasthammer, has anyone used plain old Orruks + a warboss (to further buff the pigs), or have any experience with Scraplaunchers? Butcher + 40 Grots seems like one of the better / more common options for us, just seems boring to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaticula Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Paul G said: Butcher + 40 Grots seems like one of the better / more common options for us, just seems boring to me! I agree. Question: Would you take 40 Grots as allies (is that still possible point wise?) or would you go destruction allegiance? I really like the BCR artefacts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Anaticula said: I agree. Question: Would you take 40 Grots as allies (is that still possible point wise?) or would you go destruction allegiance? I really like the BCR artefacts... If you don't go BCR you might need to take some strange battleline units? 40 grots is 200 points, 60 is 270 (these are the gutbuster grots - so the worst afaik but it's just bodies and screens needed). A butcher is 140. So a butcher and 140 is 60 under. 60 grots leaves you with 130 for something. I've also considered bulls. I think you can have 12 bulls in the allies section? That's pretty hefty but is more of the same and no screen help. I think BCR could be in a decent place with screens tbh (caveat - I've absolutely not enough experience to say that with evidence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heywoah_twitch Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 If we had access to some quality massive regiment it would certainly help, but it's weird, I wouldn't want that at all. It would take away the uniqueness of this elite, monster mash army and just fix the downsides by giving us blobs of guys like everyone else has. I'd rather them upgrade our poor warscrolls like the Hunter, yheetees, non-blizzard speaker thundertusk types, new stone skeleton, etc. Make it so that we can be competitive without needing to take tons of screening units or blobs of teleporting dudes, since elite monster mash is supposed to be our thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohojoe Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, heywoah_twitch said: If we had access to some quality massive regiment it would certainly help, but it's weird, I wouldn't want that at all. It would take away the uniqueness of this elite, monster mash army and just fix the downsides by giving us blobs of guys like everyone else has. I'd rather them upgrade our poor warscrolls like the Hunter, yheetees, non-blizzard speaker thundertusk types, new stone skeleton, etc. Make it so that we can be competitive without needing to take tons of screening units or blobs of teleporting dudes, since elite monster mash is supposed to be our thing. I agree with this sentiment. Part of me wants gutbusters and BCR to just be one army again so things are a little easier without changing the flavour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Technically it's the appeal of the army but for me it's that they're all mounted. 100% mounted force. Of monsters. So I, personally, feel that taking 40 tiny bodies ruins that as much as 12 big ones (ogor bulls). I don't think there's a way they can give BCR screens or fix the warscrolls before they release GHB2018, and the current meta demands screens (the older one did too to an extent). Edit/ and if you think 'meta schmeta!' which I do too sometimes - then all of this is moot. Just play monster mash! The best hope for monster mash fans is GHB2018. In the meantime I don't want to just play SCE so I'll be looking to add something to the BCR that lets me use them and not feel too disappointed - something I can drop when BCR fully mounted is possible again and the list doesn't change so much otherwise. So my idea is 200 pts grots - eventually dropped for 2 more mournfang. With grots it almost gives the rest of the models better scale - they seem more imposing. I've already thought of my theme for the grots I'll eventually add (roughly sentient food at a banquet that get up to escape the monstrous dinner guests - so the screen that protects the army is actually trying to escape them). I'll still be able to shape lists with plenty of behemoths and that feels like beastclaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipatola Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 15 hours ago, Turragor said: I think BCR could be in a decent place with screens tbh (caveat - I've absolutely not enough experience to say that with evidence). Gutbuster bulls are not fitted for screening, too costly for their print on the tabletop (if that makes sense ? ) The only screening option we have is gutbuster grots, 2x 40 or 60 + 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, Chipatola said: Gutbuster bulls are not fitted for screening, too costly for their print on the tabletop (if that makes sense ? ) The only screening option we have is gutbuster grots, 2x 40 or 60 + 20 Yeah I agree. The only option in a pure list is frost sabers. If I think about it, sabers are not bad for this... set sideways anyway. You've 2 wounds so worth 2 grots and you cover about the same width (a little less I think) than 2 grots 1" apart. They are 20 points a piece when it's 5 points per grot. So 20 to 10 for the same (roughly) result in a screen. What other bonuses to the sabers v grots might make up for this? Much better on the attacks front (they and yetis are the units I find surprise opponents most - I'd kill for better yeti models, I want dozens of them). Much better movement (the screen can keep up with your bigger models). 1 point more in bravery. Bonuses from being near a hunter (charges and bravery). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planar Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 24 minutes ago, Turragor said: Yeah I agree. The only option in a pure list is frost sabers. If I think about it, sabers are not bad for this... set sideways anyway. You've 2 wounds so worth 2 grots and you cover about the same width (a little less I think) than 2 grots 1" apart. They are 20 points a piece when it's 5 points per grot. So 20 to 10 for the same (roughly) result in a screen. What other bonuses to the sabers v grots might make up for this? Much better on the attacks front (they and yetis are the units I find surprise opponents most - I'd kill for better yeti models, I want dozens of them). Much better movement (the screen can keep up with your bigger models). 1 point more in bravery. Bonuses from being near a hunter (charges and bravery). I find yetis to be some of the most unappreciated units in Destruction. Their horrible models have certainly something to do why people are not noticing. I bought them as part of the Icewind Assualt package and field them regularly but refuse to paint them apart from the initial white primer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipatola Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I think people haven't experienced full mournfang / mournfang heavy lists, maybe there is something to use there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipatola Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Planar said: Their horrible models have certainly something to do why people are not noticing I heard some peopls use flesh eater court crypt horrors as count as for yheetis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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