GH2017 - Beastclaw Raiders Review & Discussion

[kozokus]

21 minutes ago, Solaris said:

Seems to me like you have 540 points worth of Allies, making this list illegal.

Nope .

I think you mistake to cost of grots for 100 for 10, but it is 100 for 20, so he only have 340 points of allies.

[Dave]

2 hours ago, Paul G said:

Building towards a Beasthammer list myself at the moment, if you extend past fielding the minimum units there seems to be very little points left to work with! Considering a couple of builds, all minimum units in the Beasthammer;
 

Hunter (general),  
2 x 2 Frost Sabres,
Frostlord on Thundertusk

Butcher
9 Ogors

Frostlord on Thundertusk (general)
3 Icefall Yhettees

What are other people's Beasthammers consisting of? I imagine Grots may be important for the bodies, but I just can't face those models / painting 40 - 60 of the things!

This is what I've been thinking about using , the main decision I need to make is whether to keep the tyrant or swap him out and make both mournfang units 4 .

[Solaris]

1 hour ago, kozokus said:

Nope .

I think you mistake to cost of grots for 100 for 10, but it is 100 for 20, so he only have 340 points of allies.

Derp, you're right of course. Considering I've been playing with 20-man units of Grots a lot, I don't even have an excuse, haha. Real brain ****** there.

[Soup Dragon]

13 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Hey @Soup Dragon,

Good review of your games. Was interesting to follow yours and @Donal's performances over the weekend. Glad to see that BCR are somewhat viable as a standalone allegiance now.

Apologies if I missed it, but what are your thoughts going forward from BLACKOUT? What changes would you make to your list now you have some GH2017 games under your belt?

I currently own a Stonehorn, a Thundertusk and 8 Mournfang so am considering a Beasthammer list at some point, bringing in some of my Gore-gruntas...is there any potential in it as anything other than a fun list do you think?

Yes, I think Beastclaw are a good solid mid-table army now. To be fair, they were before, but mixed Destruction was so much better for the same points that almost no-one took pure Beastclaws. As I said previously, knowing that they are unlikely to be on table 1 takes a lot of pressure off, so I can play them much more enjoyably than a top tier army. 

Going forward I played a game tonight with 3 x 20 grots as allies to screen three thundertusks and that did quite well, and having a few more bodies on the table was weird but useful (man, Gnoblar Grots are TERRIBLE at shooting or combat). So I am likely to be using grots as allies for a while. Man of the match yet again was the Hunter - dropped on an objective at the key moment to rescue a minor victory against Syvaneth. Mind you I could have auto won the turn before when I shot all 3 full-strength Thundertusks at a Treelord but yet again rolled two 1's for the frosty attacks! 

Mixed feelings about the Beasthammer - the extra +1 to hit is great, and the Mournfang and Grunta's are pretty resilient. But you still need another battleline unit, and it would be nice to have ranged attacks. So currently looking at:

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master 
- Artefact: Ice Mammoth Skull Plate 
Huskard on Thundertusk (380)
- Blood Vulture 
- Artefact: The Pelt of Charngar 
Icebrow Hunter (140)

Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers 
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers 
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers 
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Braggoth's Beast Hammer (260)

Total: 2000/2000

I've not run it yet, so watch this space. As an aside I played Tokens of Everwinter wrongly at Blackout - the mount (Stonehorn) doesn't get the rerolls. This makes a very big difference - the Stonehorns bounce like a space hopper so many times without any buffs.

Hopefully there will be several varied Beastclaws at Facehammer to give a better feel to which direction to go with them. I have even been thinking of taking a full Beastclaw army with NO monsters - just for lols.

[Soup Dragon]

9 hours ago, Dave said:

This is what I've been thinking about using , the main decision I need to make is whether to keep the tyrant or swap him out and make both mournfang units 4 .

You only have two Battleline units in this list I think - need another one at 2000 points (or is the Hunter the general?)

[Dave]

7 hours ago, Soup Dragon said:

You only have two Battleline units in this list I think - need another one at 2000 points (or is the Hunter the general?)

Yeah , hunter would be the general 

[Salarath]

I feel like the beast hammer is really powerful so if you run it you want to maximise the buffed units to get the most from it. In terms of shooting/battleline, a thundertusk beastriders fits exactly:

Frostlord on stonehorn 460 Pelt, everwinter's master

4 mournfang pack 320

 

4 Mournfang pack 320

 

3 Gore gruntas 140

 

3 gore gruntas 140

 

Beast hammer 260

 

Thundertusk beastriders 360

 

2000 bang on. I know you don't get a second artifict but does that matter?

 

 

 

 

 

[Turragor]

9 hours ago, Soup Dragon said:

I have even been thinking of taking a full Beastclaw army with NO monsters - just for lols.

I really like the idea of masses of mournfang and yetis. A hunter or two with a lot of frost sabers as well.

The yetis and frost sabers can dish out a bit of damage. They are not very sturdy though. Probably the main problem.

 

[Chris Tomlin]

@Soup Dragon - Thanks for the response and the Beasthammer ideas, looks pretty fun doesn't it? I would definitely like to give it a shot at some point I think. Unfortunately you are correct with the Tokens of Everwinter thing  

Have you got a list in mind for Facehammer yet?

@Salarath - Nice Beasthammer variant! Smashy!!

[Olmdebil]

How to get the ironjaws in that list? Didnt find ironjaws as allie for the beastclaws?

[Soup Dragon]

3 hours ago, Olmdebil said:

How to get the ironjaws in that list? Didnt find ironjaws as allie for the beastclaws?

You are correct Ironjawz do NOT ally with Beastclaw. However, the 'Braggoth's Beasthammer' Battalion includes 2 units of Goregruntas, so they are allowed within that Battalion and you do not lose the Beastclaw Allegiance.

[Olmdebil]

Ah ok now i get it Thank you...anyone testet it so far? 

[Bademeister]

I am new to Destruction (played Death before). I've looked over this and several other topics.

A lot of people said, that yhetees aren't that great. Icebrow Hunter should be great for claiming objectives and the sabres for ambush attacks. 

I like the idea of 3 Frost-wreathed Ice to kill the key pieces of my opponents army. The Healing on 3 Thundertusks sounds great. They are some kind of tanky.

My first idea of a list looks like this. Whats your opinion? You got enough Units to spread out, if you have to claim objektives. You got some healing. You got ambush with Sabres and Icebrow Hunter. Some good shooting with the Thundertusks.

 

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders

Leaders
Icebrow Hunter (140)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master 
- Artefact: Ice Mammoth Skull Plate 
Huskard on Thundertusk (380)
- Blood Vulture 
- Artefact: The Pelt of Charngar 
Huskard on Thundertusk (380)
- Blood Vulture 
Huskard on Thundertusk (380)
- Blood Vulture 

Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers 
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers 
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers 
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline (Icetooth Hunter General)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline (Icetooth Hunter General)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline (Icetooth Hunter General)

Battalions
Skal (110)

Total: 1990/2000
 

[Kessler]

On 20/09/2017 at 7:48 AM, Olmdebil said:

Ah ok now i get it Thank you...anyone testet it so far? 

Here is a short battle report:
https://www.the-stronghold.com/blogs/entry/239-braggoths-beast-hammer-in-action/

[WSDdeloach]

They're some challenges to this army now. 

[WSDdeloach]

On 9/15/2017 at 4:31 AM, Solaris said:

Seems to me like you have 540 points worth of Allies, making this list illegal. Apart from that, I think it is a very interesting list, and I would love to hear some thoughts on how it plays.

Where is it illegal? I have 400 points.. where do you get that illegal? Everything except the gnoblars are beastclaw Raiders... and the gnoblars are Gutbusters that ally with beastclaw. Hmm... pretty sure you're confused

[Solaris]

On 9/15/2017 at 1:53 PM, kozokus said:

Nope .

I think you mistake to cost of grots for 100 for 10, but it is 100 for 20, so he only have 340 points of allies.

 

30 minutes ago, WSDdeloach said:

Where is it illegal? I have 400 points.. where do you get that illegal? Everything except the gnoblars are beastclaw Raiders... and the gnoblars are Gutbusters that ally with beastclaw. Hmm... pretty sure you're confused

Already resolved =) I was  confused.

[Turragor]

So as someone with (painted):

Frostlord (magnetised) on Stonehorn

8 Wolves/Sabers

1 Hunter

3 Yetis

2 Mournfang

and (built and to be painted):

Thundertusk (huskard to be magnetised - maybe beastriders too...)

2 Mournfang

What should I be looking at next? Here's what I've been thinking -

• I think a butcher is pretty neat. Would need to have a cauldron because why not.
• More mournfang seems to be a good bet for their cost.
• I'm not sure if more big beasties are worth it (cool though they are) at the moment.
• Is anyone taking really big skals? Say 2 x 12 units of frostsabers?
• What about multiple skals? Big or small. Maybe one of each - there's the potential for objective shenanigans.
• Is it worth considering allied grots?

I don't think I want to go mixed destruction, I like the BCR faction flavour! The Everwinter appeals to me.

[heywoah_twitch]

10 hours ago, Turragor said:

What should I be looking at next? Here's what I've been thinking -

• I think a butcher is pretty neat. Would need to have a cauldron because why not.
• More mournfang seems to be a good bet for their cost.
• I'm not sure if more big beasties are worth it (cool though they are) at the moment.
• Is anyone taking really big skals? Say 2 x 12 units of frostsabers?
• What about multiple skals? Big or small. Maybe one of each - there's the potential for objective shenanigans.
• Is it worth considering allied grots?

-Opinion Zone-

1) The butcher is great, but frustratingly random. 2in6 chance of spinemarrow (the hit one aka the reason to run him), and the heal can be good or useless. Other 50% either hurt you or very rarely do anything. Comically bad in combat. Bad save. Mystic shield is more needed than ever though. 

2) The more testing I do the more I feel that mournfang are the stars of the show. I run 8, and am thinking of more.

3) Agree, sadly, since monster mash really was what bcr advertised and the reason many of us picked the army in the first place. 

4) Tested and is hilarious, but I'm not sure if it's just a meme. One opponent gave me an opening to drop him on a point to bait me, but it backfired and turned out I just plopped 2 cats there to burn the point and the rest 30" away with the hunter in the middle. Two hunter skal with 2cat, 2cat, 6cat or some such with 2 tusks and 8 mournfang. 

5) The way skal reads you can just about do whatever you want with just one. 

6) No, grots look dumb. I didn't pick up mighty behemoth spam beastlords to run hordes of tiny goop with legs. Oh, you mean mechanically?

[Chipatola]

I am thinking of a list using mournfang as my core, supported by butchers and huskards on thundertusk

2x Butcher

2x Huskard on thundertusk

3x 4 Mournfang cavalry

 

The double butchers helps with the randomness of the chauldron, and sometimes xill even give me a +2 to hit rolls with my mournfang, and allows me to use mystic shield and an offensive spell each turn, as well as making it harder for the opponent to kill my wizard. 

What do you think ? 

[Malakree]

7 hours ago, Chipatola said:

I am thinking of a list using mournfang as my core, supported by butchers and huskards on thundertusk

2x Butcher

2x Huskard on thundertusk

3x 4 Mournfang cavalry

 

The double butchers helps with the randomness of the chauldron, and sometimes xill even give me a +2 to hit rolls with my mournfang, and allows me to use mystic shield and an offensive spell each turn, as well as making it harder for the opponent to kill my wizard. 

What do you think ? 

Does the butcher buff stack, iirc you can only gain the effect of 1 buff of any given namr even if you have multiple.

[heywoah_twitch]

I like it! And not just because it's pretty close to what I've been trying recently. I'd suggest the mournfangs split up as 2, 2, 4, 4 so it's able to cover more ground, hold some points without stranding too many models, and to more easily get those mw charges. Mournfang in 2s are actually pretty self sufficient and resistant to battleshock, though the butcher's buffs are better with units of 4.

I'm currently playing with a few lists to test stuff out, but I would def be on what you wrote except I only own 8 mournfang.

11 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Does the butcher buff stack, iirc you can only gain the effect of 1 buff of any given namr even if you have multiple.

It stacks. The rule of one only talks about spells, they specifically left out prayers and abilities for some reason. Also the FAQ on stacking doesn't apply to buffs written like the butcher's.

[Malakree]

So would the warchanters frenzy of violence stack as well? That seems pretty silly to me.

On a completely different point. I was checking through the erratas to see if I could find the rule, I didn't, and found this.

 

Q: Stonehorns. Do you halve the number of wounds done 
(i.e. before rolling for D3/D6 damage, etc.) or the amount of 
damage done?

A: Halve the damage inflicted after all of the attacks 
made by the attacking unit have been carried out.

 

So doesn't that mean if you are shot by 30 archers who do 1 damage each. If you take 10 wounds from the UNIT you would ignore 5 of them?

The same for heroes with multiple weapons.

Why do Stonehorns hate 1 damage attacks again?

@Chris Tomlin @heywoah_twitch@Soup Dragon

[Chipatola]

@heywoah_twitch

I was even thinking about spliting my mournfang in 8 / 2 / 2 to maximize buffs from the butcher, 8 mournfang with mystic shield and exalting presence looks pretty durable ^^ 

[heywoah_twitch]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

So would the warchanters frenzy of violence stack as well? That seems pretty silly to me.

Yes. Most ironjawz are hitting on a 2+ after just one buff though. 

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Q: Stonehorns. Do you halve the number of wounds done 
(i.e. before rolling for D3/D6 damage, etc.) or the amount of 
damage done?

A: Halve the damage inflicted after all of the attacks 
made by the attacking unit have been carried out.

Tragically, I think you're reading an outdated faq.

42 minutes ago, Chipatola said:

@heywoah_twitch

I was even thinking about spliting my mournfang in 8 / 2 / 2 to maximize buffs from the butcher, 8 mournfang with mystic shield and exalting presence looks pretty durable ^^ 

 Fun to imagine, but I'd be concerned about fitting them all around a unit and navigating them through terrain, and terrified if your general dies early for no inspiring presence. Also losing a lot of mw rolls since you couldn't get within 1" with many of them.